Re: Less endurance for exercise, any exertion after starting HC

[Guest guest]

Not only were you living off adrenaline but slowly but surely reducing

your cortiosl reserves to nothing. When you have SOME cortisol in

reserve endurance comes back but SLOWLY. Low thyroid also causes a lack

of endurance as you are not pumping oxygen efficiently.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Hi Atlanta Girl,

I am fairly new to this group . I am almost positive I am in the near lowest

bracket of adrenal fatigue.It started with Epstein Barr three years ago. Now I

am waiting to take a much needed cortisol test but I just finished a five day

course of Predinisone and it is two weeks until a test will be able to get a

valid read.

I feel worse and worse I can barley move.

Did you start takimg the HC after you ahd your cortisol tested? I am taking

b-12 shots and try and eat gluten free I am not totally gluten, and other

vitamins,. I am just on zero energy and it is going to be very tough after

taking the predi. to have two weeks of pain and severe fatigue.I rarely have

ear pain and throat pain and since I have been off the Pred. pin all over.

Is there anything you can reccomend until I have the STAT cortisol test done?

Thanks,

a

I too years prior to getting sick was over doing teh gym and eating not enough

meals and then add getting the Epsteins Barr and I just was told I had

Fibromygia the last couple years, but now I can see it is my adrenals and I was

tested and have low thryroid.

..... I wondered the same thing when I first started on HC. I

was in an advanced stage of AF. Dirt low cortisol and DHEAS.

Strenuous workouts contributed to my AF. This and the wrong diet. Not

a bad diet, but not one that supported the adrenals. Prior to halting

excessive exercise I was pushing to exhaustion at Gold's gym and cross

training 5-6 days a week. When I started to work with the adrenals and

thyroid I couldn't do much more than walk with mild Reformer Pilates.

And I could only do these slowly. I had little for walking up a hill.

After one solid year of gut healing, BHRT, eating gluten free,

eliminating dairy, bringing up ferritin levels, B 12 levels, adding HC,

armour and T3, etc., I have just started weight training again. I'm no

dynamo, but I'm getting better. I find that with awareness I am able

to compensate with rest and good sleep with no detriment to my

adrenals. Right now my maintenance dose of HC is 20 mg. I do think

that my nightly injections of GH contribute significantly in my fast

muscle recovery. I won't weight train back to back anymore, but will

train for an hour and then walk 5 miles later in the day. No problem at

all. But occasionally there is a day or two back to back that I might

be tried. I don't make myself workout when I am tried. That kind of

thinking is what exacerbated the whole thing in the first place. So I

work with myself and try not to make anything worse.

AG

> Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:16 pm (PST)

> I understand that strenuous exercise is not advisable when trying to

> heal the adrenals, so I haven't been to the gym in weeks. I'm really

> missing it and I can almost see the muscle dissolving off of my body.

> I've actually lost several pounds since beginning Isocort over two

> months ago, but I'm afraid that most has been muscle as the belly fat

> has not decreased proportionally.

>

> My question is about endurance - I am finding that it is even more

> difficult, for example, to complete a longish walk with my dog. Less

> than three months ago I was walking every day and working out three

> days/week for around an hour with virtually no rest in between

> exercises. Granted I usually felt like hell the next day, but I felt

> pretty good while I was there and was able to get through most

> workouts. Do I understand correctly that what was probably happening

> is

> that I was living off of adrenaline b/c my adrenals were no longer

> able

> to keep up with enough cortisol? At some point does the endurance come

> back, or not as long as we're on the HC? I am really struggling to

> understand this.

>

>

>

Spirit to Flesh

Be still, thou unregenerate part;

Disturb no more my settled heart,

For I have vowed, and so will do,

Thee as a foe still to pursue.

Sisters we are, yea, twins we be,

Yet deadly fued 'twixt thee and me.

Thou speakest me fair, but hatest me sore;

Thy flattering shows I'll trust no more.

How oft thy slave hast thou me made

When I believed what thou hast said.

I'll stop mine ears at these thy charms,

And count them for my deadly harms.

My greatest honor it shall be

When I am victor over thee.

- Anne Bradstreet

' The Flesh and the Spirit', town, 1867.

[Guest guest]

> I understand that strenuous exercise is not advisable when trying to

> heal the adrenals .. Do I understand correctly that what was

> probably happening is that I was living off of adrenaline b/c my

> adrenals were no longer able

> to keep up with enough cortisol?

>

Adrenaline is also produced by the adrenals, isn't it, so

wouldn't it also be affected by AF? Or is it " easier " to produce

(further up in the synthesis cascade? or in a different one), or not

as controlled by ACTH?

Jim - who needs to just swallow a biochem textbook or 3 (and

fortunately, the local Uni has such a book just on the adrenals

[Guest guest]

> I am fairly new to this group . I am almost positive I am in the

> near lowest bracket of adrenal fatigue.It started with Epstein Barr

> three years ago. Now I am waiting to take a much needed cortisol

> test but I just finished a five day course of Predinisone and it is

> two weeks until a test will be able to get a valid read.

> I feel worse and worse I can barley move.

>

Could the prednisone have caused suppression? Have you been

evaluated for the various antibodies for Lupus and CFS/ME (if indeed

that is autoimmune) - various connective-tissue antigens and anti-

nuclear ones (anti-DNA I think). EBV is thought to possibly be an

autoimmune trigger.

> I too years prior to getting sick was over doing teh gym and eating

> not enough meals and then add getting the Epsteins Barr and I just

> was told I had Fibromygia the last couple years, but now I can see

> it is my adrenals and I was tested and have low thryroid.

>

See my post where I mention T3 treatment for CFS.

Jim

[Guest guest]

>> Adrenaline is also produced by the adrenals, isn't it, so

wouldn't it also be affected by AF? Or is it " easier " to produce

(further up in the synthesis cascade? or in a different one), or not

as controlled by ACTH?<<

Adrenaline we never seem to be in short supply of! It is made in the adrenal

medulla where as cortisol is made in the cortex. The Medulla is not affected in

adrenal fatigeu.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Exercise is somerthing he will have to figure out for himself. If it

makes him feel better it is good, if he takes too long to recover it is

too much. EVERYIONE wil be different here. Yes he should eat in the AM

wiht low AM cortiosl a he will have a tendency ot be hypoglycemic as well.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

a, Hi. It's been a very looooong road here with recovery. It was

all about digging into each issue of health as I would discover it. I

was unable to do it all in the correct progression of things, but in

the end it all got done. Yes, I did take cortisol right after my

saliva cortisol test. The doctor I was working with did not want to

prescribe HC for his patients. He wanted me on Pure Encapsulations

ADR. It's an adrenal glandular with some ginseng and such in it. To

me it has way too much adrenaline in it which is all wrong for healing

the adrenals. After researching a bit I knew it was best for me to go

on HC. With the help from this board I did a ramp up of dosing. I was

already on 3 grains of armour that were doing nothing for me. Once

that HC got in me the thyroid could work. It was nothing short of

spectacular!

With the disease of EB I would think you have an advanced AF and also

thyroid condition. imho. Also, going totally gluten free if you have

a problem is a must do and grain free if you can. It makes a huge

difference. It's not worth dabbling with any of these things. All or

nothing when you're trying to pull out of a hole. As I was.

For me it's been infinitely essential to be on the HC and the

T3/armour. But there is no arguing the benefits of a clean diet and

good rest for healing. I take a multitude of supplements as I did

before HC and nothing duplicates the HC if it's really needed. I take

triple B vits from time to time when I need a boost. Three times a day

with 3 different formulas. Minerals are essential and so is enough

stomach acid. Many of us with AF have poor digestion. I take HCL with

enzymes with every meal and every snack.

Have you had your ferritin tested?

AG

> Hi Atlanta Girl,

> I am fairly new to this group . I am almost positive I am in the near

> lowest bracket of adrenal fatigue.It started with Epstein Barr three

> years ago. Now I am waiting to take a much needed cortisol test but I

> just finished a five day course of Predinisone and it is two weeks

> until a test will be able to get a valid read.

> I feel worse and worse I can barley move.

> Did you start takimg the HC after you ahd your cortisol tested? I am

> taking b-12 shots and try and eat gluten free I am not totally gluten,

> and other vitamins,. I am just on zero energy and it is going to be

> very tough after taking the predi. to have two weeks of pain and

> severe fatigue.I rarely have ear pain and throat pain and since I have

> been off the Pred. pin all over.

> Is there anything you can reccomend until I have the STAT cortisol

> test done?

> Thanks,

> a

> I too years prior to getting sick was over doing teh gym and eating

> not enough meals and then add getting the Epsteins Barr and I just was

> told I had Fibromygia the last couple years, but now I can see it is

> my adrenals and I was tested and have low thryroid.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/growhair/

[Guest guest]

Hi AG, I'm in Columbia, SC and looking for a good doc closer to home

than MI which is where I am going now. Can you recommend anyone good

in your area (e-mail me off-line if you prefer - my id at Yahoo)?

I'm working on going gluten-free and limiting goitrophen foods too

(although my MIL the dietitian thinks that I'm being ridiculous for

thinking that I could eat enough tofu or broccoli to make a

difference). My doc has me on b-50, b-5 2x/day, 5000IU of D 3x/week,

and he wants me to take at least 1000mg of C/day but every buffered C

that I have taken (Ester C was the latest) messes up my bowels so I've

been staying away from it. I also take 1000mg of flax-seed oil

2x/day, a probiotic pearl every day, and 1-2 caps of digestive enzymes

with every meal. I saw a quack of a homeopath a couple of weeks ago

who wanted to sell me a pile of supplements which I politely refused,

except for one called Multizyme which was supposed to be doing

something for my low HCL and I think that it did help with digestion

b/c my GI seemed calmer while I was on it. Do you take the digestive

enzymes + HCL or did you find one that does it all?

With re: to exercise, I think that I need to do something more than

walk my dog for 20-30 minutes/day for the next year while my adrenals

heal or I'll go crazy. My work-out used to consist of 20-30 minutes

on the recumbent bike (bad lower back, naturally) at a pretty high

intensity, and then 45 minutes or so of fairly high intensity weight

training. I'm thinking of going back and doing the bike at a lower

intensity and just one set of circuit training on the machines and a

little ab and low back stuff just to try to maintain some tone. I

suppose that I can try and see if it wears me out too bad. Do you

stress dose now before you workout?

>

> ..... I wondered the same thing when I first started on HC. I

> was in an advanced stage of AF. Dirt low cortisol and DHEAS.

> Strenuous workouts contributed to my AF. This and the wrong diet. Not

> a bad diet, but not one that supported the adrenals. Prior to halting

> excessive exercise I was pushing to exhaustion at Gold's gym and cross

> training 5-6 days a week. When I started to work with the adrenals and

> thyroid I couldn't do much more than walk with mild Reformer Pilates.

> And I could only do these slowly. I had little for walking up a hill.

> After one solid year of gut healing, BHRT, eating gluten free,

> eliminating dairy, bringing up ferritin levels, B 12 levels, adding HC,

> armour and T3, etc., I have just started weight training again. I'm no

> dynamo, but I'm getting better. I find that with awareness I am able

> to compensate with rest and good sleep with no detriment to my

> adrenals. Right now my maintenance dose of HC is 20 mg. I do think

> that my nightly injections of GH contribute significantly in my fast

> muscle recovery. I won't weight train back to back anymore, but will

> train for an hour and then walk 5 miles later in the day. No problem at

> all. But occasionally there is a day or two back to back that I might

> be tried. I don't make myself workout when I am tried. That kind of

> thinking is what exacerbated the whole thing in the first place. So I

> work with myself and try not to make anything worse.

>

> AG

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim, I don't see why adrenaline production wouldn't be affected by

AF same as cortisol production is, but it seems like the adrenals can

go on producing that after they burn out trying to over-produce

cortisol for years. Case in point is that I took 25mg of HC

yesterday, but when I had a stupid argument with my wife at like 11PM

(which is about the worst possible time of the day to have an argument

given my situation these days) I almost immediately began to sweat,

get agitated, GI started to activate, and my hands started to ache,

especially my left hand. These symptoms are the same that I suffer

from when I wake up in the middle of the night with one of my little

attacks. My understanding is that adrenals are SUPPOSED to respond to

stimuli like an argument by producing a little cortisol. It seems

like mine, even with the HC supplementation, can't even rise to that

challenge anymore so they just produce adrenaline instead. I might

have all of this wrong, but it is my interpretation of what my body

was telling me last night. I guess that I should have stress-dosed

right after that argument, but I was afraid that taking HC that late

would over-stimulate me and make it even harder to sleep so I didn't.

I ended up not sleeping that well and I feel like crap today.

> > I understand that strenuous exercise is not advisable when trying to

> > heal the adrenals .. Do I understand correctly that what was

> > probably happening is that I was living off of adrenaline b/c my

> > adrenals were no longer able

> > to keep up with enough cortisol?

> >

> Adrenaline is also produced by the adrenals, isn't it, so

> wouldn't it also be affected by AF? Or is it " easier " to produce

> (further up in the synthesis cascade? or in a different one), or not

> as controlled by ACTH?

>

> Jim - who needs to just swallow a biochem textbook or 3 (and

> fortunately, the local Uni has such a book just on the adrenals

>

[Guest guest]

Probably explains the air-hunger when I exercise.

>

Low thyroid also causes a lack

> of endurance as you are not pumping oxygen efficiently.

[Guest guest]

I just received my results from my saliva adrenal tests. They show

low cortisol during the day & top of range at midnight & 8AM. That is

excetly in relation to when I have high adrenalin. It starts about

11AM & continues until 6-7PM. This is exactkly when my cortisol is

low. I never have experienced adrenalin rushes in the evening or

while sleeping.

Gale

>

> >> Adrenaline is also produced by the adrenals, isn't it, so

> wouldn't it also be affected by AF? Or is it " easier " to produce

> (further up in the synthesis cascade? or in a different one), or not

> as controlled by ACTH?<<

>

> Adrenaline we never seem to be in short supply of! It is made in the

adrenal medulla where as cortisol is made in the cortex. The Medulla

is not affected in adrenal fatigeu.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

[Guest guest]

Jim,

Thanks for your reply. I am have some trouble finding back posts. I will try

and find it.

Thanks,

a

Jim Witte wrote:

> I am fairly new to this group . I am almost positive I am in the

> near lowest bracket of adrenal fatigue.It started with Epstein Barr

> three years ago. Now I am waiting to take a much needed cortisol

> test but I just finished a five day course of Predinisone and it is

> two weeks until a test will be able to get a valid read.

> I feel worse and worse I can barley move.

>

Could the prednisone have caused suppression? Have you been

evaluated for the various antibodies for Lupus and CFS/ME (if indeed

that is autoimmune) - various connective-tissue antigens and anti-

nuclear ones (anti-DNA I think). EBV is thought to possibly be an

autoimmune trigger.

> I too years prior to getting sick was over doing teh gym and eating

> not enough meals and then add getting the Epsteins Barr and I just

> was told I had Fibromygia the last couple years, but now I can see

> it is my adrenals and I was tested and have low thryroid.

>

See my post where I mention T3 treatment for CFS.

Jim

[Guest guest]

Hi Atlanta Girl,

I appreciate your feedback. I have been on a long recovery myself, beginning

with bad panic attacks in my early 20s that lead into clinical depression.

I do not know if I am needing a Gluten free diet, but it would not hurt.

HC my doctor has no problem giving me , but I have to do the blood test first.

I did order the salvia test but I must wait to do it when the Prednisone is out

of my body and I have to have the money to send it off. So my thought is at

least the cortisol blood test will give the doctor a look at how low it is. Then

when I get the salvia test back he can adjust it.

I have taken a free T4 and it was a tad low, but my other doc messed up and

did not take the freee T3.

On my lab slip I am being checked for alot . I did have my ferritin level

checked months ago, but I checked it off with the comaptible diagnostic code

and I think I was suppose ot fast for that test adn I did not so I will take

that one again.

I have read and Val has suggested that I first dela with the adrenal

exhasution then I can have Armour added.

For now I am on depression medication which I might be able to be weaned of of

down the line, but first things first I must get soem energy because I am not

functioning and I am in my 30's on social security diasblity as I am lucky to

get out of the house to the market and pharmacy once a week, twice if I am

lucky. I am blessed my family can help me if need be.

I did not even know I had EB until I moved to my parents in another state

because in LA where I am from originally I saw a couple doctors and they never

tested for it. They said I had Fibromyalgia and any doctor who had hal a brain

would have checked for EB and cytomegilia? sp? I did not think of it at the time

because I wa sso sick my brain was foggy.

I just am in a quandry because now off the 50 mg of Pred. for five days I feel

not too hot. I did call my doctors office the nurse told me to take my vitamim

B-12 shots every five days and try and deal with the pain and fatigue so they

can get a clear cortisol test. I am wondering if I took 1/4 of HC and stayed off

three days would that be OK? Pred. I know is way stronger than HC , so would

that be why I need two weeks for the test? I just feel alot of pain my my arms ,

legs and sternum. I know it is from the adrenals, I just had a regular blood

panel taken and a chest x-ray, all came back clear. I do know I am low on

vitamin D and I am taking sublingual drops for it.

Best Regards,

a W.

PS what is HCL? I have digestive enzymes. When I take probiotics I feel sick

afterwards. Maybe my body is detoxing too quick from them and I get like I have

the flu.

Atlanta Girl wrote:

a, Hi. It's been a very looooong road here with recovery. It was

all about digging into each issue of health as I would discover it. I

was unable to do it all in the correct progression of things, but in

the end it all got done. Yes, I did take cortisol right after my

saliva cortisol test. The doctor I was working with did not want to

prescribe HC for his patients. He wanted me on Pure Encapsulations

ADR. It's an adrenal glandular with some ginseng and such in it. To

me it has way too much adrenaline in it which is all wrong for healing

the adrenals. After researching a bit I knew it was best for me to go

on HC. With the help from this board I did a ramp up of dosing. I was

already on 3 grains of armour that were doing nothing for me. Once

that HC got in me the thyroid could work. It was nothing short of

spectacular!

With the disease of EB I would think you have an advanced AF and also

thyroid condition. imho. Also, going totally gluten free if you have

a problem is a must do and grain free if you can. It makes a huge

difference. It's not worth dabbling with any of these things. All or

nothing when you're trying to pull out of a hole. As I was.

For me it's been infinitely essential to be on the HC and the

T3/armour. But there is no arguing the benefits of a clean diet and

good rest for healing. I take a multitude of supplements as I did

before HC and nothing duplicates the HC if it's really needed. I take

triple B vits from time to time when I need a boost. Three times a day

with 3 different formulas. Minerals are essential and so is enough

stomach acid. Many of us with AF have poor digestion. I take HCL with

enzymes with every meal and every snack.

Have you had your ferritin tested?

AG

> Hi Atlanta Girl,

> I am fairly new to this group . I am almost positive I am in the near

> lowest bracket of adrenal fatigue.It started with Epstein Barr three

> years ago. Now I am waiting to take a much needed cortisol test but I

> just finished a five day course of Predinisone and it is two weeks

> until a test will be able to get a valid read.

> I feel worse and worse I can barley move.

> Did you start takimg the HC after you ahd your cortisol tested? I am

> taking b-12 shots and try and eat gluten free I am not totally gluten,

> and other vitamins,. I am just on zero energy and it is going to be

> very tough after taking the predi. to have two weeks of pain and

> severe fatigue.I rarely have ear pain and throat pain and since I have

> been off the Pred. pin all over.

> Is there anything you can reccomend until I have the STAT cortisol

> test done?

> Thanks,

> a

> I too years prior to getting sick was over doing teh gym and eating

> not enough meals and then add getting the Epsteins Barr and I just was

> told I had Fibromygia the last couple years, but now I can see it is

> my adrenals and I was tested and have low thryroid.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/growhair/

[Guest guest]

..... re: docs in Atlanta area. I see a doc in Texas never

finding one here. But this was before I decided what my next step

should be in testing. Had my heart set on the Metametrix ION panel. I

looked on the Metametrix website to see who was authorized to order and

read their tests. Bingo. They email you a list of docs in your area.

It just happened that I was in Texas at the time so asked for the Texas

list of docs. In fact, now that I think of it, one of the docs who

helped profile the Metametrix tests is in private practice in Atlanta.

I'll see if I can find her name and will email it to you.

I have run the gamut with HCL and enzymes. What I take now is Solaray

650 mg HCL/Pepsin and Enzymedica Digest Gold. For lighter snacks I

found a private label HCL/enzyme combo that works well. Have you seen

the website enzymestuff.com? For a normal meal I have to take 5-6 of

the HCL and 4 enzymes. I did a lot of gut damage with eating dairy and

gluten. But everything is A-OK now there's just no room for deviation.

Even sprouted bread sets me back.

It's hard to wait out the no exercise thing, but pushing past the

adrenal lack might not be a good idea either. It can set you back. No

pun. ;-) Exercise uses an enormous amount of cortisol. I feel the

adrenal drain the following day of intense exercise more than the day

of. My adrenal " healing " with my adrenal rebuilding protocol took a

full year which might be considered fast by some standards. But I was

militant. I do think I will have to be on the HC for life though as my

adrenal weakness came on since my teens. I think I read that you are

on Isocort. Yes? Is this enough for you?

And no, I do not stress dose for the workouts. I do make sure I drink

my shake that is high in protein and other things. This seems to help

me not deplete. I could NOT be where I am without HC though. This is

for sure.

AG

>

> Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:14 am (PST)

> Hi AG, I'm in Columbia, SC and looking for a good doc closer to home

> than MI which is where I am going now. Can you recommend anyone good

> in your area (e-mail me off-line if you prefer - my id at Yahoo)?

>

> I'm working on going gluten-free and limiting goitrophen foods too

> (although my MIL the dietitian thinks that I'm being ridiculous for

> thinking that I could eat enough tofu or broccoli to make a

> difference). My doc has me on b-50, b-5 2x/day, 5000IU of D 3x/week,

> and he wants me to take at least 1000mg of C/day but every buffered C

> that I have taken (Ester C was the latest) messes up my bowels so I've

> been staying away from it. I also take 1000mg of flax-seed oil

> 2x/day, a probiotic pearl every day, and 1-2 caps of digestive enzymes

> with every meal. I saw a quack of a homeopath a couple of weeks ago

> who wanted to sell me a pile of supplements which I politely refused,

> except for one called Multizyme which was supposed to be doing

> something for my low HCL and I think that it did help with digestion

> b/c my GI seemed calmer while I was on it. Do you take the digestive

> enzymes + HCL or did you find one that does it all?

>

> With re: to exercise, I think that I need to do something more than

> walk my dog for 20-30 minutes/day for the next year while my adrenals

> heal or I'll go crazy. My work-out used to consist of 20-30 minutes

> on the recumbent bike (bad lower back, naturally) at a pretty high

> intensity, and then 45 minutes or so of fairly high intensity weight

> training. I'm thinking of going back and doing the bike at a lower

> intensity and just one set of circuit training on the machines and a

> little ab and low back stuff just to try to maintain some tone. I

> suppose that I can try and see if it wears me out too bad. Do you

> stress dose now before you workout?

>

>

Boldness has genius, power and magic. Engage, and the mind grows

heated. Begin, and the work will be completed.

- Goethe

[Guest guest]

AG, did you figure out what you needed for enzymes and HCL on your

own, or did you have help? I'm looking at the enzyme stuff and

Enzymedica sites - lots of info. How did you get around the lactose

in the HC - cream or enzymes to help with that too?

>

>

> I have run the gamut with HCL and enzymes. What I take now is Solaray

> 650 mg HCL/Pepsin and Enzymedica Digest Gold. For lighter snacks I

> found a private label HCL/enzyme combo that works well. Have you seen

> the website enzymestuff.com? For a normal meal I have to take 5-6 of

> the HCL and 4 enzymes. I did a lot of gut damage with eating dairy and

> gluten. But everything is A-OK now there's just no room for deviation.

> Even sprouted bread sets me back.

[Guest guest]

......, I DID figure out the HCL and enzyme amounts and overall

necessity on my own. By the time I found this great doc in Austin I

was already into everything I needed to rebuild. You simply can't wait

on finding adequate docs when your health is a stake. I figure we do

more reading, sharing than they do overall. ;-)

As for the lactose in HC, small amounts don't bother me. Thankfully.

When trying to find the key to good digestion I purchased the most

complete enzyme complex that I could find, and Enzymedica Gold IS

expensive, and just took enough to create perfect digestion. The

troubling thing was that although the enzymes were a god send they were

not the whole picture. It was much later than I discovered the HCL

connection. I know a lot of people post fears of dabbling with HCL,

but you work up until the day you feel a little burn, then you back

down one. I've yet to have any issues with it and don't see that I

will. I carry my little pill box with HLC/enzymes with me at all times

and start every meal with it sitting on the table. Even in fine

restaurants. ;-)

, it might be that the enzymes/HCL DO help with tolerating allergy

foods to some extent. There is an excellent author who I highly

recommend. Ellen Cutler. MicroMiracles is one of her great books.

-AG

> Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:58 pm (PST)

> AG, did you figure out what you needed for enzymes and HCL on your

> own, or did you have help? I'm looking at the enzyme stuff and

> Enzymedica sites - lots of info. How did you get around the lactose

> in the HC - cream or enzymes to help with that too?

>

>

..

[Guest guest]

HCL at mealtimes and enzymes in between meals will work great wonders.

VitalzymX is the best for enzymes that I've found so far.

Linn

>

> ......, I DID figure out the HCL and enzyme amounts and overall

> necessity on my own. By the time I found this great doc in Austin I

> was already into everything I needed to rebuild. You simply can't wait

> on finding adequate docs when your health is a stake. I figure we do

[Guest guest]

Enzymes in between meals or with meals, or both? I'm taking one or

two enzyme caps with every meal now and they're helping, but didn't

know that I should be taking them in between meals. What I need is

something to hold back the HC induced hunger all day and night.

> >

> > ......, I DID figure out the HCL and enzyme amounts and overall

> > necessity on my own. By the time I found this great doc in Austin I

> > was already into everything I needed to rebuild. You simply can't

wait

> > on finding adequate docs when your health is a stake. I figure we do

>

[Guest guest]

VitalzymX is like Wobenzyme. Both of which are " systemic " enzymes. Not

food enzymes which Enzymedica is. Important distinction. People take

systemic enzymes for clearing up fibrin and reducing inflammation,

etc.. I agree with you on the wonders part. I've taken Wobenzyme and

you don't want it in or around food as you want it to pass the

intestinal wall still vital and not caught up in food digestion.

Begin forwarded message:

> Re: Less endurance for exercise, any exertion after starting HC

> Posted by: " mwm1glm " mwm1glm@...   mwm1glm

>

> Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:36 am (PST)

> HCL at mealtimes and enzymes in between meals will work great wonders.

> VitalzymX is the best for enzymes that I've found so far.

>

> Linn

If we are faithful and fail not and faint not, we shall some day know

that the most exquisite work of all our life was done in those days

when it was so dark.

- Unknown

[Guest guest]

You can do both times, but wouldn't recommend VitalzymX with meals,

just due to the cost, there are much less expensive enzymes available

for meals. The VitalzymX is for in between meal use.

Linn

>

> Enzymes in between meals or with meals, or both? I'm taking one or

> two enzyme caps with every meal now and they're helping, but didn't

> know that I should be taking them in between meals. What I need is

> something to hold back the HC induced hunger all day and night.

[Guest guest]

Correct. I only take HCL at mealtimes, not VitalzymX, that's only

taken in between meals.

Linn

>

> VitalzymX is like Wobenzyme. Both of which are " systemic " enzymes. Not

> food enzymes which Enzymedica is. Important distinction. People take

> systemic enzymes for clearing up fibrin and reducing inflammation,

> etc.. I agree with you on the wonders part. I've taken Wobenzyme and

> you don't want it in or around food as you want it to pass the

> intestinal wall still vital and not caught up in food digestion.

[Guest guest]

.... it comes down to experimentation. I take 2-3 enzymes with

each meal, and two with snacks. The idea is not to have any undigested

food causing issues. I think the Gold is worth the money if it doesn't

cause problems for you. I've yet to have any problems with too many

enzymes. HCL is a different matter. You know if you take too much.\

Good for you. Glad it's working.

The way to assess HCL is to try it. One at a time. When it burns you

know you have gone too far. Slow digestive transit, acid stomach.

These are a couple of signs that you need it. Plus just bad digestion.

Feeling tired after you eat.

-AG

> .

>

> Mon Dec 3, 2007 2:00 pm (PST)

> Hi AG, I picked up some of the Digest, instead of the Gold, because

> the sales girl said that the Gold might be a little upsetting to the

> GI and I asked for mild. I was already taking two caps of another

> brand with every meals so that's what I'm taking with the Digest. Do

> I recall correctly that you said that you take 4 caps of the Gold with

> every meal? How many do you take with snacks like a protein bar, or a

> banana, etc.? I am convinced that the enzymes are helping me with the

> GI and with getting more out of the HC that I am taking so this is a

> big part of the puzzle for me. I just want to maximize the positive

> effect - if I need to just go for it with the Gold I will. Don't know

> about the HCL yet or how to assess.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

The sales lady for Enzymatic said that Gold is approx. 4x as strong as

Digest so if you take 2-3 of the Gold, and my digestion is as messed

up as I believe it is, I should probably be taking double the Digest

or 6-8 caps with meals and 3-4 with snacks. One bottle of Digest isn't

going to last long at that rate. So your GI tolerates that much of

the Gold OK then? I really feel like it is making a difference, but I

can't say that digestion is smooth yet. Now I have to start on a

week's worth of Amoxicillin for a tooth infection prior to getting a

root canal so the GI will be even more upset than usual. I can get the

Digest at the local Earthfare, but I have to order the Gold and I'm

trying to decide which to go with next.

>

> .... it comes down to experimentation. I take 2-3 enzymes with

> each meal, and two with snacks. The idea is not to have any undigested

> food causing issues. I think the Gold is worth the money if it doesn't

> cause problems for you. I've yet to have any problems with too many

> enzymes. HCL is a different matter. You know if you take too much.\

> Good for you. Glad it's working.

> The way to assess HCL is to try it. One at a time. When it burns you

> know you have gone too far. Slow digestive transit, acid stomach.

> These are a couple of signs that you need it. Plus just bad digestion.

> Feeling tired after you eat.

[Guest guest]

Do take a good multi-strain probiotic daily while you are on the

antibiotic, and for a week or so afterwards.

You can get very good ones that are non-dairy, non-lactose.

sol

jasrich wrote:

> Now I have to start on a

> week's worth of Amoxicillin for a tooth infection prior to getting a

> root canal so the GI will be even more upset than usual. I can get the

> Digest at the local Earthfare, but I have to order the Gold and I'm

> trying to decide which to go with next.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sol. I've been taking on daily for about a month now - some

brand that one of you guys recommended. Can't remember it right now.

>

> Do take a good multi-strain probiotic daily while you are on the

> antibiotic, and for a week or so afterwards.

> You can get very good ones that are non-dairy, non-lactose.

> sol