Re: resisting meds and hydrocortisone cream???

[Guest guest]

Hi Sol,

Got a quick question about HC cream -

I've just had to switch from Cortef to HC cream because I'm lactose

intolerant, and now that I'm at 20mg HC I'm getting marked GI

reactions to the lactose. Taking lactase with the Cortef seems to

have had minimal effect, so HC cream it is.

I was just looking through the archives on HC cream and read your

earlier post. I'm wondering how long you leave uncovered by clothing

the area of skin that you've just applied the HC cream to? I guess

I'm concerned that putting clothing straight over skin with newly

applied HC cream will somehow rub off some of the cream and reduce

the absorption of HC. Do you wait a few minutes, or just cover the

area immediately the cream's rubbed in?

It's great to hear the HC cream has been working well for you,

Best,

Louise

> > Hi, Barb.

> > Why do you use the cream in the fatty area? I do just the

opposite. I know

> > the fatty area is supposed to release more slowly but I have also

read it

> > doesn't metabolize as well and can build up in fatty tissue and

not be

> > utilized by the cells.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Louise, I'm lactose intolerant too and having lots of GI issues the

higher I go with HC. I have also found that taking it with food and

lactase does not seem to help. I suspect that the lactose is part of

the problem, but I have only been on the Cortef for a few weeks so I

want to give it a chance. How certain are you that it is the

HC/lactose that is causing your problem? I might need to go to cream

also. The one time that I did so, I totally mis-measured and ended up

putting on a lot more than I needed - guess I stress-dosed that day.

I did not have GI upset though.

Thanks,

>

> Hi Sol,

>

> Got a quick question about HC cream -

>

> I've just had to switch from Cortef to HC cream because I'm lactose

> intolerant, and now that I'm at 20mg HC I'm getting marked GI

> reactions to the lactose. Taking lactase with the Cortef seems to

> have had minimal effect, so HC cream it is.

>

> I was just looking through the archives on HC cream and read your

> earlier post. I'm wondering how long you leave uncovered by clothing

> the area of skin that you've just applied the HC cream to? I guess

> I'm concerned that putting clothing straight over skin with newly

> applied HC cream will somehow rub off some of the cream and reduce

> the absorption of HC. Do you wait a few minutes, or just cover the

> area immediately the cream's rubbed in?

>

> It's great to hear the HC cream has been working well for you,

>

>

> Best,

>

> Louise

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm also somewhat lactose intolerant. For those of you who have

trouble with HC, what kind of GI issues do you see? I'm surprised

because HC pills are so tiny.

-Jung

> >

> > Hi Sol,

> >

> > Got a quick question about HC cream -

> >

> > I've just had to switch from Cortef to HC cream because I'm lactose

> > intolerant, and now that I'm at 20mg HC I'm getting marked GI

> > reactions to the lactose. Taking lactase with the Cortef seems to

> > have had minimal effect, so HC cream it is.

> >

> > I was just looking through the archives on HC cream and read your

> > earlier post. I'm wondering how long you leave uncovered by clothing

> > the area of skin that you've just applied the HC cream to? I guess

> > I'm concerned that putting clothing straight over skin with newly

> > applied HC cream will somehow rub off some of the cream and reduce

> > the absorption of HC. Do you wait a few minutes, or just cover the

> > area immediately the cream's rubbed in?

> >

> > It's great to hear the HC cream has been working well for you,

> >

> >

> > Best,

> >

> > Louise

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Louise,

> I just rub the cream in well, and cover. It doesn't seem to harm

> anything.

That's good to know Sol, thanks. I plan on rotating the areas used

every couple of days. The main thing is that you have been getting the

benefit of the HC from this method.

Louise

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Louise, I'm lactose intolerant too and having lots of GI issues the

> higher I go with HC. I have also found that taking it with food and

> lactase does not seem to help. I suspect that the lactose is part of

> the problem.

Hi .

My sympathies! We're juggling so many variables it's hard to tell with

any certainty what's causing the GI upsets on HC, isn't it. Due to

adrenal stress (recent mercury exposure has crashed my adrenals) I've

had to cut back my dose of T3 (I'm on Cytomel) and feel a bit hypo at

the moment which could be causing the stomach probs.

But like you, my taking Cortef with food and lactase hasn't done the

trick for me - I still get the classic lactose intolerance symptoms a

couple of hours later, and particularly in the evenings/ in the night -

very painful bloating, wind, and upset stomach the next morning etc

(lovely!). I didn't have any obvious problems on lower doses - this

seems to have kicked in as I went over about 15mg daily. But because my

system's in turmoil re the mercury exposure, I can't be certain...

Although various websites suggest small amounts of lactose don't

provoke a reaction, my experience has contradicted this! LOL. I have

reacted to quite small amounts (can't take homeopathic remedies in

lactose, either). I'm also classically allergic to dairy - I believe

that involves the proteins though, not the lactose. I haven't eaten

dairy for 20 years or so and have to carry an Epipen around (adrenalin

shot for anaphylaxis) so I know my system's particularly vulnerable to

hypersensitivity reactions. I was reading Jeffries recently and he

mentions that some allergic patients found 20mg+ HC reduced their

allergic reactions - I live in hope!

I've been following your progress with interest actually. Like you I

sometimes get horrible night episodes, and I've never got to the bottom

of what causes them. I used to think high cortisol pre-adrenal support

( I'm stage 5/6 AF so was very low cortisol all day except for at

night) but now that I'm on the HC, my cortisol should be low at night,

right?... But I've had these attacks for years, way before I started

the HC and thyroid hormone. Like you I'm prone to hypoglycaemia, and

have been on a strict paleolithic diet (very low carb) for 4 years now,

which controls it pretty well mostly. But perhaps I go hypoglycaemic

and too-low cortisol/high adrenaline at night? Often occcurs if I'm

incubating a virus, I've noticed, which would be using extra cortisol,

I guess.

But after 24 hours of using the HC cream, I do think my GI upset has

lessened. Let me know how you get on if you try it out,

Best,

Louise

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm also somewhat lactose intolerant. For those of you who have

> trouble with HC, what kind of GI issues do you see? I'm surprised

> because HC pills are so tiny.

>

> -Jung

>

Hi Jung,

Yes, I'm surprised too, but the reaction is classic lactose intolerance

stuff... Extreme, painful bloating and gas, followed by upset stomach

some hours later. Not nice! So I'm excluding the Cortef for now and

giving the cream a trial for a few days to see if there's any

difference. I have reacted to tiny amounts before, though. Very

frustrating.

Louise

[Guest guest]

louisebrock22 wrote:

> That's good to know Sol, thanks. I plan on rotating the areas used

> every couple of days. The main thing is that you have been getting the

> benefit of the HC from this method.

>

Well, I assume I must be since I did work up to stable temps. Perhaps

Val can comment if there is any other reason daily average temps could

go stable after being all over the place?

sol

[Guest guest]

Temps that are stable indicate enough cortiosl for that day.

Destabilizing can be caused by stress of ANY kind,. Physical ( change in

temps or spending more time outside in weather) or moving thyroid up, or

emotional stress (arguments, just being around someone you dislike!) To

help the adrenals you need to become in tune to the things that cause

YOU stress. For me hot weather is an extreme stress and when it cools in

Fall and Winter I feel immediate releif!

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://www.seewell4less.com/Valspage.htm Medical Alert Bracelets

[Guest guest]

Hi Louise, I'm following your discussion with Val too - I think that I

need to adjust my HC dose to what she just recommended for you. How

are you doing it with the cream? I get all of this that you listed,

especially in the evening and night - very painful bloating, wind, and

upset stomach the next morning. I also get this low level churning in

the stomach that can last literally all day and start up right away as

soon as I put anything down there including a few ounces of tepid

water. Lactase, whether taken as part of a digestive enzyme cap with

meals, or Lactaid taken directly with the dairy product doesn't seem

to cut it with stuff like ice cream (it was my birthday yesterday so

we had ice cream cake and I suffered for it) or HC if it is the dairy

in the HC that is doing it to me. Interestingly though, taking the HC

with a small piece of cheese has turned out to be the most effective

and non-stomach upsetting way for me take it so far.

> Hi .

>

> My sympathies! We're juggling so many variables it's hard to tell with

> any certainty what's causing the GI upsets on HC, isn't it. Due to

> adrenal stress (recent mercury exposure has crashed my adrenals) I've

> had to cut back my dose of T3 (I'm on Cytomel) and feel a bit hypo at

> the moment which could be causing the stomach probs

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Louise, I'm following your discussion with Val too - I think

that I

> need to adjust my HC dose to what she just recommended for you. How

> are you doing it with the cream? I get all of this that you listed,

> especially in the evening and night - very painful bloating, wind,

and

> upset stomach the next morning.

Hi ,

Hope that dosing schedule helps you too! That's the beauty of this

forum, isn't it. I feel Val's right that I'll respond to more HC in

the mornings. I'll start it tomorrow - I really feel my body needs

more HC. It'll be interesting to see how this dose suits you. I think

I've been in denial about needing more HC. If I'm truthful I guess

haven't been ramping up and stress dosing quite as I should have been

up to now. (Although I did get stable temps before the viruses and

mercury accidents, and got up to 100mcg T3 for a while there- but I

was clearly exhausting my reserves as I did so).

I think I know the psychological source of my HC aversion - many

years ago when I was a postgrad I shared a flat with a girl who had to

take high doses of HC for the severe inflammatory after effects of a

near-fatal motorcycle crash. She suffered from all the classic

Cushingoid side-effects, and this terror of what hyporcorticalism can

do has clearly never left me! But I've read and digested Jeffries,

Peatfield, Skinner and Lowe on the safety of physiologic doses, and

really think I need to put this misplaced fear to rest(after all my

friend's side effects arose from a very DIFFERENT type of high dose

cortisol treatment).

So, how am I doing with the cream? I'm learning to love my dosing

syringe (no, really!). I've ordered a pocket scale from eBay as Pary

suggested, but for now seem to be doing ok with the syringe. It seems

about as accurate as quartering a 10mg Cortef, not 100%, but close

enough. The fact that I'm all shaky and low cortisolish at the moment

isn't a very good advert for my dosing skills, I know (LOL), but as

far as I know I'm getting the dosing right (10mg HC per 1/4 teaspoon

cream which is 1.25ml). I am a bit concerned about the long term

effects upon my skin, but the HC has to get in somehow, and perhaps

if we can't tolerate the lactose the cream is the lesser of two

evils. It certainly sounds like you're prone to lactose intolerance

too. The symptoms are identical! A few times that stomach pain was so

bad after a day of Cortef that I was awake all night - not tenable!

Maybe lactase is only effective for people with a milder intolerance?

I have to avoid dairy anyway so have never used lactase for anything

else. But I splashed out on the Solgar, so assume it's an okay one.

You mentioned cheese was ok - I seem to remember people saying cheese

can be less of a problem lactose-wise. But as I'm allergic to dairy I

wouldn't know first hand.

Well, it's 8.30pm here now, and on the Cortef I'd already be having

horrible stomach symptoms by now. I've done all cream today and my

stomach's behaving so far.... Will keep you posted.

Louise

[Guest guest]

Val, I do go unstable temps again with every T3 increase, but after

each increase, begin to lose the benefit after a few days, so don't

think I'm at my optimal dose yet probably not even close.

I am dreadfully heat intolerant. I don't much like extreme cold, don't

like shovelling snow, and really don't like falling down on ice (done

that, shattered my R shoulder years ago), but still I overall feel a lot

better in cold weather than in hot. Even in the house, I like it about

68 degrees, and anything over 70 sends me into. Fits, I mean I get hot,

sweaty, and panicky and horridly irritable. It is the mental upset that

goes with feeling hot that really bothers me. I can remember feeling

that panic from being too hot as far back as high school.

sol

T wrote:

> Temps that are stable indicate enough cortiosl for that day.

> Destabilizing can be caused by stress of ANY kind,. Physical ( change in

> temps or spending more time outside in weather) or moving thyroid up, or

> emotional stress (arguments, just being around someone you dislike!) To

> help the adrenals you need to become in tune to the things that cause

> YOU stress. For me hot weather is an extreme stress and when it cools in

> Fall and Winter I feel immediate releif!

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>I like it about

68 degrees, and anything over 70 sends me into. Fits, I mean I get hot,

sweaty, and panicky and horridly irritable. It is the mental upset that

goes with feeling hot that really bothers me. I can remember feeling

that panic from being too hot as far back as high school.<<

Thsi reeks of either high cortisl or low aldosterone. Your body will tell you in

no uncertain terms if you are losing too much salt. Sweating profusely is a sign

of low aldosterone and the irritability is another.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

I've definitely been in denial - I've resisted using HC, first with

Isocort, then Cortef, at every stage. Now I'm on 25mg/day, but I

have yet to try to stress dose despite having gone through several

scenarios over the past few weeks that probably warranted it. I know

that I need to, and I read on a different forum that it really helps

to stress dose as you optimize Armour, but I'm just afraid to use too

much. But, OTOH, I raised my HC and Armour today, on the same day,

which was probably a bad idea, but I haven't suffered yet. It's

ironic that I'm so desperate to start optimizing thyroid but still

relucant to optimize adrenals. For me it's because the side effects

have been so obvious since going on the HC, and the fear of the

Cushings type symptoms. My Armour increase was only 1/8 grain and my

temps have been pretty stable so I am hopeful that I will be OK.

So, with re: to the cream, you're using 1% OTC HC cream squeezing

1.25ml out of a dosing syringe for a dose of 10mg? What will that

7.5mg dose convert to in mls? Are you putting it on the thinner skin

or the thicker skin (referencing an earlier thread on this topic)?

The one time that I used it I put in on the inside of my arms but

used way too much so I really had to smear the stuff around. I

really want to try this so that I can determine whether it is at

least partially the lactose that is causing me problems with taking

HC. The GI symptoms that occur when I increase Armour are bad enough

on their own, but with an almost constant active GI from the HC I

don't know that I'm giving myself the chance that I need with Armour.

\

> Hi ,

>

> Hope that dosing schedule helps you too! That's the beauty of this

> forum, isn't it. I feel Val's right that I'll respond to more HC in

> the mornings. I'll start it tomorrow - I really feel my body needs

> more HC. It'll be interesting to see how this dose suits you. I

think

> I've been in denial about needing more HC. If I'm truthful I guess

> haven't been ramping up and stress dosing quite as I should have

been

> So, how am I doing with the cream? I'm learning to love my dosing

> syringe (no, really!). I've ordered a pocket scale from eBay as

Pary

> suggested, but for now seem to be doing ok with the syringe. It

seems

> about as accurate as quartering a 10mg Cortef, not 100%, but close

> enough. The fact that I'm all shaky and low cortisolish at the

moment

> isn't a very good advert for my dosing skills, I know (LOL), but as

> far as I know I'm getting the dosing right (10mg HC per 1/4

teaspoon

> cream which is 1.25ml). I am a bit concerned about the long term

> effects upon my skin, but the HC has to get in somehow, and perhaps

> if we can't tolerate the lactose the cream is the lesser of two

> evils.

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> >>I like it about

> 68 degrees, and anything over 70 sends me into. Fits, I mean I get hot,

> sweaty, and panicky and horridly irritable. It is the mental upset that

> goes with feeling hot that really bothers me. I can remember feeling

> that panic from being too hot as far back as high school.<<

>

> Thsi reeks of either high cortisl or low aldosterone. Your body will tell you

in no uncertain terms if you are losing too much salt. Sweating profusely is a

sign of low aldosterone and the irritability is another.

>

>

I haven't managed to find anyone to do aldosterone testing as yet, so I

guess I should start salt/water on a regular basis? I found some

non-iodine sea salt, and have been using it on food without an eczema

flare, so I could add salt water daily? Once a day or twice to start?

1/4 or 1/2 teaspoon? Truly, I salt my food so heavily, I didn't think I

needed salt water as well.

I don't *think* I'm on too much cortisone, taking 10-7.5-5-2.5 every 4

hours and bedtime (went up to 5 mg on the last dose for a few days, but

experienced even worse sleep so dropping back to 25 mg. I'm only very

recently noticing that when I'm late for a dose I get a very " everything

ran out suddenly " feeling, shaky, stomach hurts, etc. Could also be

hypoglycemia.......or could it be the T3 " ran out " also as I take my T3

at the same time as my HC, except no beditme dose. I did try adding a

small T3 bedtime dose last night too, but I think it added to keeping me

awake.

sol

[Guest guest]

>

> I've definitely been in denial - I've resisted using HC, first with

> Isocort, then Cortef, at every stage. Now I'm on 25mg/day, but I

> have yet to try to stress dose despite having gone through several

> scenarios over the past few weeks that probably warranted it. I

know

> that I need to, and I read on a different forum that it really

helps

> to stress dose as you optimize Armour, but I'm just afraid to use

too

> much. But, OTOH, I raised my HC and Armour today, on the same day,

> which was probably a bad idea, but I haven't suffered yet. It's

> ironic that I'm so desperate to start optimizing thyroid but still

> relucant to optimize adrenals. For me it's because the side

effects

> have been so obvious since going on the HC, and the fear of the

> Cushings type symptoms. My Armour increase was only 1/8 grain and

my

> temps have been pretty stable so I am hopeful that I will be OK.

>

-----------------

Hi ,

The bad news -I'm having one of those nightime episodes where I

cannot sleep (it's the early hours here in a frosty London) so have

decided it's useless to languish in bed feeling overheated, twitchy

and adrenalined-up with a pounding heart! But the good news - for the

second night running I have *NO* GI shenanigans at all (despite

dosing 25mg HC today including stress dosing). Yay! So perhaps the HC

cream is proving my lactose hypothesis after all? Will take a few

more days on the cream to be sure, but lactose is looking like the

culprit.

Yes, the denial thing is so curious because I can now see I've had

low adrenal symptoms for many years, and it was when things got so

bad this spring such that my BP was on the floor (70's over 30's at

times) and I was repeatedly collapsing and fainting that I sought out

Dr Peatfield in May. (I also had Hashi's my endo refused to treat).

Dr P said I was virtually at ian levels and on the verge of

ending up in hospital or worse if I didn't start adrenal support

soon. My saliva labs showed stage 5/6 AF. Prior to this my endo and

other docs hadn't been much help at all. So I know that I needed

serious adrenal support even BEFORE I started the thyroid hormone, so

I need to let go of the notion that I only entered a downward adrenal

spiral ONCE I started the Armour and then the T3. Clearly thyroid

hormone speeds up metabolism and exposes underlying adrenal problems,

but mine were already well and truly uncovered! I guess if you're

having to keep upping your HC your adrenals probably need support

badly too. Maybe we're learning the hard way. I really want get back

to the amazing response I had to the T3 before I demolished my

adrenal reserve.

---------------------

> So, with re: to the cream, you're using 1% OTC HC cream squeezing

> 1.25ml out of a dosing syringe for a dose of 10mg? What will that

> 7.5mg dose convert to in mls? Are you putting it on the thinner

skin

> or the thicker skin (referencing an earlier thread on this topic)?

> The one time that I used it I put in on the inside of my arms but

> used way too much so I really had to smear the stuff around. I

> really want to try this so that I can determine whether it is at

> least partially the lactose that is causing me problems with taking

> HC. The GI symptoms that occur when I increase Armour are bad

enough

> on their own, but with an almost constant active GI from the HC I

> don't know that I'm giving myself the chance that I need with

Armour.

>

> -------------------

Yes, this is the confusing bit - GI stuff we'd have anyway - because

I have varying amounts of IBS type stuff most days, but the recent

Cortef reactions were in a TOTALLY different league. And these do

seem to have stopped as I've stopped the Cortef.

Ok, my calculator tells me a dose of 7.5mg HC is 0.93ml cream, 2,5mg

HC is 0.31ml cream, 5mg HC is 0.62ml and, should you need it, 1.25mg

HC is 0.155ml cream. These measurements aren't as small, creamwise,

as they sound. Get yourself a liquid dosing syringe. If anyone knows

a better method of filling the syringe, please tell me, but because

it's not possible to suck up HC cream as if it were liquid as these

syringes are designed to do (the cream's too viscous) I'm pulling out

the plunger, squeezing in some HC cream from the top, replacing the

plunger and then calculating with some nifty mental arithmetic how

far up I need to push the plunger. Fiddly, yes. Any other HC creamers

out there, if my calculations or Byzantine methods sound wildly off,

please, do let me know! lol. Just trial and error at the moment. But

SO important to get right, which is the scary bit.

In terms of where I'm putting the cream, I'm undecided myself, having

read various recommendations on this list promoting thin skin areas

and fatty ones. So for now I've been hedging a bit and am using both

my inner arms and tops of my thighs with a view to rotating to other

areas in 7 days as my tube of HC cream instructs me to do. Yes, I'm

using OTC HC 1% hydrocortisone cream. I'm assuming it's pretty much

the same formulation in the UK and US? Ingredients on my tube:

Hydrocortisone acetate BP 1% w/w; white soft paraffin; cetomacrogol

emulsifying wax; liquid paraffin; phenoxyethanol; purified water.

I totally agree with you re: working out whether these GI upsets ARE

lactose related because as you suggest, such daily GI stress must

have a negative effect overall, not least on the adrenals. I've

always been borderline underweight with some malabsorption and

wouldn't want to have daily stomach upsets and absorb even less! And

find that my malabsorption was also reducing my absorption of HC....

Hope this helps,

Louise

[Guest guest]

UNREFINED sea salt is the best and 1/4 tsp twice a day to start and work

upto 1/2 tsp twie a day. Some folks need more. It i very hard to eat

enough of th3e good salt when you have weak adrenals.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

This is supposed to be unrefined sea salt, LaBaleine. Sold by SaltWorks.

But the container says " does not supply iodide " . I did try Redmond Real

Salt, but did react to it.

As far as salt goes, this is the best I can do. I was told of another

brand of actual no iodine sea salt, but I can't find that brand here, it

is Alessi, also a Mediterranean salt. My only other choice is refined,

non-iodized, no flow ingredients kosker salt. If it comes to a choice

between eczema and salt, no eczema wins hands down.

You told me once that as I get adrenals and thyroid optimized the

allergy may at some point no longer be an issue. I really hope that

happens. But after two decades and more, I'm NOT holding my breath!

sol

wrote:

> UNREFINED sea salt is the best and 1/4 tsp twice a day to start and work

> upto 1/2 tsp twie a day. Some folks need more. It i very hard to eat

> enough of th3e good salt when you have weak adrenals.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I've been rethinking the HC cream amounts I posted. It has just dawned

on me that the 1/4 teaspoon quoted on this forum for 10mg HC cream may

simply be the the closest teaspoon measure and thus slightly rounded

off? As my 1% HC cream comes in a 15mg tube, perhaps for a dosing

syringe wouldn't it be more accurate to regard each 1mg as 0.15ml (ie.

1% OF 15ML)? So 10mg would be 1.5ml cream etc (and 7.5 mg would be

1.05ml.) These are much easier figures for a syringe. Can anyone

confirm this is right? Val?

I know the difference isn't vast between, say, 10mg HC being 1.5ml or

1.25ml, but over time these small amounts add up and I guess we need to

be as accurate as we can when it comes to HC.

Louise

[Guest guest]

Louise, I'm sorry that you didn't sleep well last night. I didn't

rest well, although I didn't lie awake all night, thankfully. I feel

tired and like hell this AM which I am attributing to having an

adrenaline rush earlier in the night when I argued with my wife that

affected my sleep later on.

I am happy to hear that your HC cream experiment seems to be working.

I think that I am going to try that this week once I get home - we've

been staying with the inlaws this weekend, but we're thankfully

leaving today. I probably should have been stress-dosing for the past

three days, but there's that old reluctance again.

I'm still having a hard time reconciling the fact that my adrenals

were already shot before I started the Armour b/c, despite not feeling

great on Synthroid, I never felt as bad on it as I have since starting

on Armour and, especially, HC. For me, so far, the cure has been much

worse than the disease. I keep plodding along though, trying to get

the adrenals supported enough to give Armour a chance to make the huge

difference that it has made for so many people. I still believe in

this approach, but with very little to no support/understanding from

doctors, or my family and friends, this feels like an awfully lonely

road. I need some kind of spark to show me that this can work for me,

but I know that I won't get one until I get my dose of Armour up from

the measly 1 grain that I'm on.

I have a liquid dosing syringe, marked off in mls, and half full of HC

cream that I squeezed it into. This doesn't seem like an optimal way

to do this, because, as you say, the cream isn't liquid, but I don't

know how else to go about it. I need to go back and read the posts

about the scales and see if I can find one some place. I " ll use your

measurements as a guide - thank you. Do you squeeze it out into a

measuring spoon or right onto the skin?

> Hi ,

>

> The bad news -I'm having one of those nightime episodes where I

> cannot sleep (it's the early hours here in a frosty London) so have

> decided it's useless to languish in bed feeling overheated, twitchy

> and adrenalined-up with a pounding heart! But the good news - for the

> second night running I have *NO* GI shenanigans at all (despite

> dosing 25mg HC today including stress dosing). Yay! So perhaps the HC

> cream is proving my lactose hypothesis after all?

> > -------------------

> Yes, this is the confusing bit - GI stuff we'd have anyway - because

> I have varying amounts of IBS type stuff most days, but the recent

> Cortef reactions were in a TOTALLY different league. And these do

> seem to have stopped as I've stopped the Cortef.

>

> Ok, my calculator tells me a dose of 7.5mg HC is 0.93ml cream, 2,5mg

> HC is 0.31ml cream, 5mg HC is 0.62ml and, should you need it, 1.25mg

> HC is 0.155ml cream. These measurements aren't as small, creamwise,

> as they sound. Get yourself a liquid dosing syringe. If anyone knows

> a better method of filling the syringe, please tell me, but because

> it's not possible to suck up HC cream as if it were liquid as these

> syringes are designed to do (the cream's too viscous) I'm pulling out

> the plunger, squeezing in some HC cream from the top, replacing the

> plunger and then calculating with some nifty mental arithmetic how

> far up I need to push the plunger. Fiddly, yes. Any other HC creamers

> out there, if my calculations or Byzantine methods sound wildly off,

> please, do let me know! lol. Just trial and error at the moment. But

> SO important to get right, which is the scary bit.

>

> Louise

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Louise, I'm sorry that you didn't sleep well last night. I didn't

> rest well, although I didn't lie awake all night, thankfully. I

feel

> tired and like hell this AM which I am attributing to having an

> adrenaline rush earlier in the night when I argued with my wife that

> affected my sleep later on.

Hi

I'm sorry to hear you're not feeling good today after your adrenaline

rush last night. It certainly sounds like there've been quite some

demands upon your adrenal reserve this weekend, and I hope things are

settling now. Yes, last thing at night certainly seems to be a bad

time for the low-cortisol system to go out of kilter, doesn't it.

It's now become so obvious to me that one of the prime causes of my

nighttime episodes is excessive adrenaline. Last night was possibly

one of the worst yet - definitely the ill-efffects of low cortisol.

(Though I have been helped by reading posts regarding your night

events on that one, and now eat a little protein before bed to try to

stave off hypoglycaemia etc.)

> I am happy to hear that your HC cream experiment seems to be

working.

> I think that I am going to try that this week once I get home -

we've

> been staying with the inlaws this weekend, but we're thankfully

> leaving today. I probably should have been stress-dosing for the

past

> three days, but there's that old reluctance again.

The HC cream experiment is progressing well. The good news to report

is that I've had no upset stomachs for the last two mornings, in

stark contrast to the Cortef days. So it does seem the lactose was to

blame on that score. It takes so little! I'll be really interested to

see how you go with the cream, fingers crossed it helps.

>

> I'm still having a hard time reconciling the fact that my adrenals

> were already shot before I started the Armour b/c, despite not

feeling

> great on Synthroid, I never felt as bad on it as I have since

starting

> on Armour and, especially, HC. For me, so far, the cure has been

much

> worse than the disease. I keep plodding along though, trying to get

> the adrenals supported enough to give Armour a chance to make the

huge

> difference that it has made for so many people. I still believe in

> this approach, but with very little to no support/understanding from

> doctors, or my family and friends, this feels like an awfully lonely

> road. I need some kind of spark to show me that this can work for

me,

> but I know that I won't get one until I get my dose of Armour up

from

> the measly 1 grain that I'm on.

I hope the raises in HC enable you to ramp up the Armour. And I can

really empathise with that feeling of isolation that comes from

living with seemingly intractable health problems, especially when

support and understanding seem thin on the ground from others. So

many of us on this forum must share that experience, yet it is

individually so hard to bear. But it goes without saying that there

is SO much support here - we're all walking that road you mention

together! To my mind it takes great strength of spirit to persevere

despite the stress of adrenal illness, not least because the stress

hormones are involved!

I had a very bad time on Armour from the outset, even at a quarter

grain. I stayed on it for just a month, getting progressively worse

but sticking doggedly with it thinking I just had to go higher until

my next appointment with Dr Peatfield when he took one look at me and

took me straight off it! Seems I can't tolerate the T4 at all. I even

reacted badly to the miniscule amounts of T4 in thyroid glandulars

before I started Armour (have never taken thyroxine). It was a

different story with the T3, however, where I felt benefit from the

very first tiny dose on the same level of adrenal support that I was

taking for the Armour. (Until I fried my adrenals of course! LOL)

Indeed, Dr Lowe has found that many fibromyalgics like myself cannot

tolerate the T4 in Armour but do well with T3. I know what you mean

about needing some spark of hope, though. I was very disheartened

after my Armour fiasco - I remember asking Dr P if thyroid

replacement would never work for me. But because my response to T3

was so unequivocally positive it was the encouragement I badly needed.

IF I can get the adrenal support right of course! The T3 response

was literally the first time in my LIFE that anything had just erased

symptoms like that. So, it'll be fascinating to see how you fare as

you raise your HC.

On that note, I have felt SO MUCH BETTER today on the raised 25mg HC

despite having had practically nearly no sleep. What a difference!

After the first 10mg dose of the day, the pounding heart I've had for

a week without any let-up (adrenaline, I'm sure) just resolved. As

has the afternoon shaking. Blessed relief, and hopefully I'll sleep

tonight. So thanks to Val for this!! One thing that struck me in

Jeffries' book is that he says that therapeutic effects of a raised

HC dose may take up to 10-14 days to occur. I have taken heart from

that and have relaxed a bit in the knowledge that cortisol-related

improvements may come quite gradually. But I tolerated my 30mcg

Cytomel fine today, so at least I haven't had to stop it altogether.

And I got a 98.6 average temp today after days of zigzagging

temperature craziness.

>

> I have a liquid dosing syringe, marked off in mls, and half full of

HC

> cream that I squeezed it into. This doesn't seem like an optimal

way

> to do this, because, as you say, the cream isn't liquid, but I don't

> know how else to go about it. I need to go back and read the posts

> about the scales and see if I can find one some place. I " ll use

your

> measurements as a guide - thank you. Do you squeeze it out into a

> measuring spoon or right onto the skin?

>

Yes, it's not the easiest of methods. Thanks to 's post I ordered

a pocket scale and am waiting for it to arrrive from Hong Kong. But

for now it's the syringe. I've been squeezing it onto my fingers

first, then applying it to the chosen area, though it has occured to

me this might not be advisable long-term as I could thin the skin on

those fingers.... Hmmm...straight onto a spoon or skin must be

better, thanks for that.

Louise

[Guest guest]

Hi Louise, a couple of quick comments - I actually think that the

bed-time snacking and HC was what was contributing to my night-time

attacks, so I have moved that last dose of HC to 8PM and tried to stop

eating afterwards and had better luck sleeping that way for several

nights until the last two. One problem seems to be that whenever I

take HC I get hungry within an hour or two, whether I eat with it or

not. I hate that b/c I'm literally tired of eating all of the time in

some vain attempt to keep up with the demands that HC is putting on my

body to feed it constantly. It also leads to GI problems almost every

night - like the last two nights in a row. I've also been waking up

hungry at 5:30AM again the past two nights so I suspect that the 2.5mg

of HC at 8PM is not holding me through the night. I'm considering

moving it back to bed-time, but at the lower 2.5 dose in the hopes

that it won't cause me to have those night-time attacks, or increasing

the 8PM dose from 2.5 to 5mg, or leaving the 2.5mg dose at 8PM and

adding another 2.5mg dose before bed.

So the dosing would like:

10mg at 8AM,7.5mg at noon,5mg at 4PM and, 2.5mg at 8PM or

10,7.5,5,5 or

10,7.5,5,2.5,2.5

Either of those two latter schedules represents another increase from

25mg to 27.5mg.

I tried the cream this morning, squeezing it out from my syringe to a

1/4 tsp and still probably used too much - it took a while to rub it

in to my thighs. Despite not sleeping enough last night, I feel

slightly hyper and very hungry even though I have eaten. I need to

order the scale that mentioned - can you send me a link?

I think that I have managed to increase Armour by 1/8 grain. I don't

know if Armour will end up being the cure-all for me that it has been

for so many people here. I might need to go the T-3 route too. For

now I'm staying the course and focusing most energy on getting HC

dosing correct so that I can sleep.

> Hi

>

> I'm sorry to hear you're not feeling good today after your adrenaline

> rush last night. It certainly sounds like there've been quite some

> demands upon your adrenal reserve this weekend, and I hope things are

> settling now.

[Guest guest]

Well, it's either been a little while since you last posted, or I

change things too rapidly (more of the latter of course), but as you

might have read by now, I was feeling over-stimulated using the HC

cream so I stopped it and, since then, knock-on-wood, I have been

improving some. I am attributing most of the improvement to two

things - taking digestive enzymes with everything that I eat, and

getting my dose of HC up to 27.5mg/day. The GI upset is much better

during the day for the past three days, I have not had a

middle-of-the-night attack in almost two weeks, and my energy has

improved. I believe that the night-time attacks might have been

caused by a combination of eating right before bed (to tolerate the

HC) and not digesting the food or the HC properly, and the melatonin.

What is interesting is that after I quit the melatonin, the next

attack I had did not have a panic/anxiety component to it - just the

sudden awakening, sleeplessness, sweating, upset GI, etc. After I

stopped eating before bed the attacks stopped. Unfortunately, I am

not sleeping through the night again so I think that my HC rhythm is

not quite right. I'm taking HC before bed again, but it isn't holding

as I wake up at 5AM and can't get back to sleep. I'm dosing like this

now:

10mg at 8AM

7.5mg at noon

5mg at 3:30 - 4PM

2.5mg at 6:30 and

2.5mg at bedtime

I'm thinking about pushing that third dose back to where it was at

4:30 and combining the last two doses for 5mg at bedtime again. Val

is going to scold me for doing too many things at once and not waiting

long enough in between

I've also thought about just using the cream for stress-dosing and the

smaller doses in the evening so that I don't have to eat with them

because my GI tends to be much more problematic at night. I have my

scale, but I'm still having a hard time calculating how many mgs of

cream to measure out on it for a 2.5mg or 5mg dose. I think that I'm

making this harder than it needs to be but the scale doesn't read out

in mls ot tsps - it reads out in mgs so how much 1% cream do I squeeze

out for a 2.5mg or 5mg dose?

I'm being told by another poster that my aldosterone is also too low

and that I should consider going on Florinef so maybe that it is

contributing to my trouble too.

>

> Hope the revised HC dosing schedule is going ok.

>

> Re the HC and hunger issue, that's a real nightmare. I haven't

> experienced this at all on my higher HC dose. I don't know whether

> you eat a low carb diet, too, but I wonder whether my not

> experiencing increased appetite is due to my very low carb diet which

> simply doesn't release enough insulin for me to get the terrible

> hypoglycaemic episodes I used to suffer (had them constantly from

> about age 18 to now - about 20 years, and they're extremely rare

> now). I follow a paleolithic diet with carbs as low as early stages

> of Atkins but infinitely more healthy and evolutionarily adapted to

> our nutritional requirements. Dr Loren Cordain has written an

> excellent book on the paleo diet. Just a thought, anyway.

>

> Re night time attacks, I'm about to post on a related condition I

> have - mitral valve prolapse (very high incidence of this in

> autoimmune thyroid disease sufferers, there's an article on

> Shomon's site). Mitral valve prolapse tends to co-exist with

> dysautonomia (autonomic nervous system instability with postural

> hypotension) - which can cause the dread adrenaline attacks. Low

> aldosterone is a central factor in this chain of events. Will write

> more in another post, but I think I might possibly have begun to

> understand what causes my nighttime episodes...?

>

> Louise