Re: Re: Ann, Newbies: Hives, Angioedema,

[Guest guest]

Myra,

I remember my Rheumatologist saying something about possibly adding Zantac or

Tagamet if the Doxepin didn't work. Is Zantac an over the counter drug? Would

you say Tagamet is just as effective as Zantac?

Thanks for your knowledge ! I am learning a great deal !

Ann

titus@... wrote:

> Hi Ann,

> I am not a Dr or a nurse......but you are right, I am educated and

> have a strong science background, ..... Before kids, I was a

> researcher for political people, explaining to them difficult

> concepts in an easy to understand way, so that they could form an

> opinion on complicated legislation based on that information. When my

> daughter became soooo very ill.... I applied those same research

> techniques to find her answer.... I have read literally thousands of

> medical research documents about urticaria and studied the very

> complicated bio-mechanism of hiving..... I try to share that

> information here, because I don't want all that I learned to be kept

> a secret, while other people suffer.

>

> Now, based on that info I will tell you that your Dr might be right

> about the med, Nexium being the best acid reducer...... But here is

> the problem, it does nothing for stomach histamine. Let me try to

> explain. When researchers were trying to develop meds to treat

> stomach acid they were " concerned " at the time about turning off

> the " stomach acid pump " , so they looked for another way to control

> acid... What they found is interesting, stomach histamine from mast

> cells produce acid...... they then could develop a way to control

> stomach acid without turning off the " stomach acid pump " . This is a

> case of a med being developed for it's " side-effect " , eliminate

> histamine, reduce acid. Today, they have developed meds which do

> work on the stomach acid without addressing histamine, these are

> called proton pump inhibitors, Prilosec and Nexium (the purple pill)

> are two of them. The only problem is, if you have activated mast

> cells releasing histamine the little purple pill will do nothing to

> stop them. Secondly, not all H2's (stomach anti-histamines) work

> favorablely with H1's. Researches have found that the H1 which is

> best for the wheal and flare of hives is Zyrtec (they should pay me

> for this, hee, hee) which is a metabolite of Atarax and the ONLY H2

> which works in combination with it is Zantac. And that for

> urticaria, Zyrtec should be taken at double the " allergy " dose, which

> means 10 mgs. twice a day, along with 150 mg. 0f Zantac twice a

> day. By the way Zyrtec has been field trialed at up to 60 mg a day

> without significant side effects.

>

> So, may I restate the problem for you.... you are a hiver, you are

> producing stomach acid because your hiving is out of control and your

> stomach mast cells (gotta love those Rottweilers) are firing away.

> You are taking a med which controls the acid, but not the stomach

> mast cell histamine..... If you took Zantac, you would not only

> control your stomach histamine, you would also get better control of

> your skin mast cells because they also have on them receptors for H2

> and when your stomach mast cells fire they " tell " your skin mast

> cells to fire also. It is a vicious circle. Hugs, Myra

>

> ...

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> If you do wish to unsubscribe then you can click on the following link:

> urticaria-unsubscribeegroups

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> This list is in the service of those who suffer from Chronic Urticaria

(hives). We strive to support and lift each other as a worldwide cyber-family.

>

> We share whatever needs to be shared to help one another in our struggle with

Chronic Urticria. Information provided in this forum is not to be taken as

medical advice. Always consult your health professional before trying anything

new.

>

> Any posting that is off the main topic of Chronic Urticaria, we post with a

prefix of NCU -. This is done out of respect for those who do not wish to read

such postings.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Myra,

I remember my Rheumatologist saying something about possibly adding Zantac or

Tagamet if the Doxepin didn't work. Is Zantac an over the counter drug? Would

you say Tagamet is just as effective as Zantac?

Thanks for your knowledge ! I am learning a great deal !

Ann

titus@... wrote:

> Hi Ann,

> I am not a Dr or a nurse......but you are right, I am educated and

> have a strong science background, ..... Before kids, I was a

> researcher for political people, explaining to them difficult

> concepts in an easy to understand way, so that they could form an

> opinion on complicated legislation based on that information. When my

> daughter became soooo very ill.... I applied those same research

> techniques to find her answer.... I have read literally thousands of

> medical research documents about urticaria and studied the very

> complicated bio-mechanism of hiving..... I try to share that

> information here, because I don't want all that I learned to be kept

> a secret, while other people suffer.

>

> Now, based on that info I will tell you that your Dr might be right

> about the med, Nexium being the best acid reducer...... But here is

> the problem, it does nothing for stomach histamine. Let me try to

> explain. When researchers were trying to develop meds to treat

> stomach acid they were " concerned " at the time about turning off

> the " stomach acid pump " , so they looked for another way to control

> acid... What they found is interesting, stomach histamine from mast

> cells produce acid...... they then could develop a way to control

> stomach acid without turning off the " stomach acid pump " . This is a

> case of a med being developed for it's " side-effect " , eliminate

> histamine, reduce acid. Today, they have developed meds which do

> work on the stomach acid without addressing histamine, these are

> called proton pump inhibitors, Prilosec and Nexium (the purple pill)

> are two of them. The only problem is, if you have activated mast

> cells releasing histamine the little purple pill will do nothing to

> stop them. Secondly, not all H2's (stomach anti-histamines) work

> favorablely with H1's. Researches have found that the H1 which is

> best for the wheal and flare of hives is Zyrtec (they should pay me

> for this, hee, hee) which is a metabolite of Atarax and the ONLY H2

> which works in combination with it is Zantac. And that for

> urticaria, Zyrtec should be taken at double the " allergy " dose, which

> means 10 mgs. twice a day, along with 150 mg. 0f Zantac twice a

> day. By the way Zyrtec has been field trialed at up to 60 mg a day

> without significant side effects.

>

> So, may I restate the problem for you.... you are a hiver, you are

> producing stomach acid because your hiving is out of control and your

> stomach mast cells (gotta love those Rottweilers) are firing away.

> You are taking a med which controls the acid, but not the stomach

> mast cell histamine..... If you took Zantac, you would not only

> control your stomach histamine, you would also get better control of

> your skin mast cells because they also have on them receptors for H2

> and when your stomach mast cells fire they " tell " your skin mast

> cells to fire also. It is a vicious circle. Hugs, Myra

>

> ...

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> If you do wish to unsubscribe then you can click on the following link:

> urticaria-unsubscribeegroups

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> This list is in the service of those who suffer from Chronic Urticaria

(hives). We strive to support and lift each other as a worldwide cyber-family.

>

> We share whatever needs to be shared to help one another in our struggle with

Chronic Urticria. Information provided in this forum is not to be taken as

medical advice. Always consult your health professional before trying anything

new.

>

> Any posting that is off the main topic of Chronic Urticaria, we post with a

prefix of NCU -. This is done out of respect for those who do not wish to read

such postings.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ann,

Excuse me for jumping in here. Zantac and Tagamet are both OTC - Zantac

(which I use) comes in 75mg tabs. If you have one of those warehouse places

(Price Club or Costco are the ones here, I don't know what there is

elsewhere) it's usually a LOT cheaper to buy them there. I can get 120

tablets for about $20 at our local Costco. Same with Benadryl - 300 25mg

tablets for less than $5.

Personally I find Zantac works better for me than Tagamet (used in combo

with Benadryl). One thing to keep in mind is what you're using for H1. If

Zyrtec, then you want Zantac. Atarax - you want Tagamet. (See Myra, I've

been paying attention!)

Air hugs,

Jackie

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Ann,

Excuse me for jumping in here. Zantac and Tagamet are both OTC - Zantac

(which I use) comes in 75mg tabs. If you have one of those warehouse places

(Price Club or Costco are the ones here, I don't know what there is

elsewhere) it's usually a LOT cheaper to buy them there. I can get 120

tablets for about $20 at our local Costco. Same with Benadryl - 300 25mg

tablets for less than $5.

Personally I find Zantac works better for me than Tagamet (used in combo

with Benadryl). One thing to keep in mind is what you're using for H1. If

Zyrtec, then you want Zantac. Atarax - you want Tagamet. (See Myra, I've

been paying attention!)

Air hugs,

Jackie

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

I don't mind you jumping in at all ! Ok, which one do I use with Doxepin,

Tagamet or Zantac? Is Claritan an H1? Will that work in combo with any of

these? Because, I'm actually going to start Claritan back and Doxepin back up

after

these allergy testing, if I decide to go ahead with it. Also, I'm guessing I

wouldn't want to keep taking the Nexium for my stomach then, correct??

Boy, I'm glad I have someone to ask all these questions ! xoxo Ann

Jackie Vaughan wrote:

> Ann,

>

> Excuse me for jumping in here. Zantac and Tagamet are both OTC - Zantac

> (which I use) comes in 75mg tabs. If you have one of those warehouse places

> (Price Club or Costco are the ones here, I don't know what there is

> elsewhere) it's usually a LOT cheaper to buy them there. I can get 120

> tablets for about $20 at our local Costco. Same with Benadryl - 300 25mg

> tablets for less than $5.

>

> Personally I find Zantac works better for me than Tagamet (used in combo

> with Benadryl). One thing to keep in mind is what you're using for H1. If

> Zyrtec, then you want Zantac. Atarax - you want Tagamet. (See Myra, I've

> been paying attention!)

>

> Air hugs,

> Jackie

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> If you do wish to unsubscribe then you can click on the following link:

> urticaria-unsubscribeegroups

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> This list is in the service of those who suffer from Chronic Urticaria

(hives). We strive to support and lift each other as a worldwide cyber-family.

>

> We share whatever needs to be shared to help one another in our struggle with

Chronic Urticria. Information provided in this forum is not to be taken as

medical advice. Always consult your health professional before trying anything

new.

>

> Any posting that is off the main topic of Chronic Urticaria, we post with a

prefix of NCU -. This is done out of respect for those who do not wish to read

such postings.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Myra,

What do you mean when someone is cholinergic? Sorry if I'm asking dumb

questions ! xoxox Ann

titus@... wrote:

> Well the problem here is Doxipen is addressing another type of

> histamine called H3 ( Though, I do believe it has H1 properties as

> well.).... and is often necessary when someone is cholinergic,

> because it crossed the blood barrier of the brain.

>

> Tagament is often used as a great H2 with H1's other than Zyrtec....

> but you definately SHOULD NOT be taking it together a proton pump

> inhibitor such as Nexium. Hugs, Myra

>

>

> > Myra,

> > I remember my Rheumatologist saying something about possibly adding

> Zantac or Tagamet if the Doxepin didn't work. Is Zantac an over the

> counter drug? Would you say Tagamet is just as effective as Zantac?

> >

> > Thanks for your knowledge ! I am learning a great deal !

> > Ann

> >

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> If you do wish to unsubscribe then you can click on the following link:

> urticaria-unsubscribeegroups

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> This list is in the service of those who suffer from Chronic Urticaria

(hives). We strive to support and lift each other as a worldwide cyber-family.

>

> We share whatever needs to be shared to help one another in our struggle with

Chronic Urticria. Information provided in this forum is not to be taken as

medical advice. Always consult your health professional before trying anything

new.

>

> Any posting that is off the main topic of Chronic Urticaria, we post with a

prefix of NCU -. This is done out of respect for those who do not wish to read

such postings.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Myra,

What do you mean when someone is cholinergic? Sorry if I'm asking dumb

questions ! xoxox Ann

titus@... wrote:

> Well the problem here is Doxipen is addressing another type of

> histamine called H3 ( Though, I do believe it has H1 properties as

> well.).... and is often necessary when someone is cholinergic,

> because it crossed the blood barrier of the brain.

>

> Tagament is often used as a great H2 with H1's other than Zyrtec....

> but you definately SHOULD NOT be taking it together a proton pump

> inhibitor such as Nexium. Hugs, Myra

>

>

> > Myra,

> > I remember my Rheumatologist saying something about possibly adding

> Zantac or Tagamet if the Doxepin didn't work. Is Zantac an over the

> counter drug? Would you say Tagamet is just as effective as Zantac?

> >

> > Thanks for your knowledge ! I am learning a great deal !

> > Ann

> >

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> If you do wish to unsubscribe then you can click on the following link:

> urticaria-unsubscribeegroups

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> This list is in the service of those who suffer from Chronic Urticaria

(hives). We strive to support and lift each other as a worldwide cyber-family.

>

> We share whatever needs to be shared to help one another in our struggle with

Chronic Urticria. Information provided in this forum is not to be taken as

medical advice. Always consult your health professional before trying anything

new.

>

> Any posting that is off the main topic of Chronic Urticaria, we post with a

prefix of NCU -. This is done out of respect for those who do not wish to read

such postings.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Myra,

What do you mean when someone is cholinergic? Sorry if I'm asking dumb

questions ! xoxox Ann

titus@... wrote:

> Well the problem here is Doxipen is addressing another type of

> histamine called H3 ( Though, I do believe it has H1 properties as

> well.).... and is often necessary when someone is cholinergic,

> because it crossed the blood barrier of the brain.

>

> Tagament is often used as a great H2 with H1's other than Zyrtec....

> but you definately SHOULD NOT be taking it together a proton pump

> inhibitor such as Nexium. Hugs, Myra

>

>

> > Myra,

> > I remember my Rheumatologist saying something about possibly adding

> Zantac or Tagamet if the Doxepin didn't work. Is Zantac an over the

> counter drug? Would you say Tagamet is just as effective as Zantac?

> >

> > Thanks for your knowledge ! I am learning a great deal !

> > Ann

> >

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> If you do wish to unsubscribe then you can click on the following link:

> urticaria-unsubscribeegroups

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> This list is in the service of those who suffer from Chronic Urticaria

(hives). We strive to support and lift each other as a worldwide cyber-family.

>

> We share whatever needs to be shared to help one another in our struggle with

Chronic Urticria. Information provided in this forum is not to be taken as

medical advice. Always consult your health professional before trying anything

new.

>

> Any posting that is off the main topic of Chronic Urticaria, we post with a

prefix of NCU -. This is done out of respect for those who do not wish to read

such postings.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Getting beyond my scope here - I have no experience with Doxepin or Nexium,

and no knowledge of them. Myra can probably answer that one for you. My

understanding is Claritin is H1. I found Claritin and Allegra to both be

totally useless to control my hives. Supposedly one or both of them were to

replace Seldane, which was taken off the market here in the US many years

ago. (Too bad, since it worked great for me.) But just because they didn't

help me doesn't mean they won't help you. Another med that sometimes

increases the effectiveness of Zyrtec is Accolate (an asthma med). I tried

Zyrtec/Accolate in a clinical trial and the combo was a bust for me, but

many people in the trial found it really helped. There's actually quite a

few options when it comes to meds, the trick is finding the combo that works

for YOU.

Air hugs,

Jackie

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

Thanks for the help. Actually, since the Zyrtec didn't relieve the hives, I was

just going to go back on the Claritan for my seasonal allergies. The Zyrtec is

almost $2.00 a pill !

Take care, Ann

Jackie Vaughan wrote:

> Getting beyond my scope here - I have no experience with Doxepin or Nexium,

> and no knowledge of them. Myra can probably answer that one for you. My

> understanding is Claritin is H1. I found Claritin and Allegra to both be

> totally useless to control my hives. Supposedly one or both of them were to

> replace Seldane, which was taken off the market here in the US many years

> ago. (Too bad, since it worked great for me.) But just because they didn't

> help me doesn't mean they won't help you. Another med that sometimes

> increases the effectiveness of Zyrtec is Accolate (an asthma med). I tried

> Zyrtec/Accolate in a clinical trial and the combo was a bust for me, but

> many people in the trial found it really helped. There's actually quite a

> few options when it comes to meds, the trick is finding the combo that works

> for YOU.

>

> Air hugs,

> Jackie

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> If you do wish to unsubscribe then you can click on the following link:

> urticaria-unsubscribeegroups

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> This list is in the service of those who suffer from Chronic Urticaria

(hives). We strive to support and lift each other as a worldwide cyber-family.

>

> We share whatever needs to be shared to help one another in our struggle with

Chronic Urticria. Information provided in this forum is not to be taken as

medical advice. Always consult your health professional before trying anything

new.

>

> Any posting that is off the main topic of Chronic Urticaria, we post with a

prefix of NCU -. This is done out of respect for those who do not wish to read

such postings.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Myra,

I will definitely try Zyrtec with Zantac ! Thanks, would have never thought to

" try again " ! Ann

titus@... wrote:

> Not dumb questions, actually very good questions....... but this one

> is not easy to answer. The word " cholinergic " comes from the root

> word " choline " which is part of the B vitamin group which is

> component of lecthin. To say something is " cholinergic " is to say

> that is stimulated by choline, which is used by the parasympathetic

> nervous system or automatic nervous system which controls involuntary

> responses such as dialation of blood vessels, contracting of the

> pupils of the eyes when exposed to light, slowing down the heart

> rate, and increasing the activity of digestive, and reproductive

> organs and glands..etc. So the word " cholinergic " can apply to

> various functions of the parasympathic nervous system. When we say

> that someone has " cholinergic " urticaria, we are saying that this

> persons urticaria has something to do with a function of the

> parasympathetic nervous system..... usually that means the person is

> reacting to how his/her body heats up or cools down. Often Drs will

> call this " sweat " urticaria or they will explain it by saying the

> person is allergic to their own sweat.... which isn't really what is

> happening. What is happening is a chemical function of the nerves in

> the brain. Doxipen and meds like Prozac cross the blood barrier of

> the brain to address the function of the neuro-transmitters or the

> chemicals involved in neuro-transmitting.

>

> I notice that in your note to Jackie that you stated you have tried

> Zyrtec and it didn't work..... but before you through out the baby

> with the bathwater, you should try it in combo with Zantac. My

> daughter and many others were not helped by H1 alone, without an

> H2...... and visa versa. Hugs, Myra

>

> > Myra,

> > What do you mean when someone is cholinergic? Sorry if I'm asking

> dumb questions ! xoxox Ann

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> If you do wish to unsubscribe then you can click on the following link:

> urticaria-unsubscribeegroups

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> This list is in the service of those who suffer from Chronic Urticaria

(hives). We strive to support and lift each other as a worldwide cyber-family.

>

> We share whatever needs to be shared to help one another in our struggle with

Chronic Urticria. Information provided in this forum is not to be taken as

medical advice. Always consult your health professional before trying anything

new.

>

> Any posting that is off the main topic of Chronic Urticaria, we post with a

prefix of NCU -. This is done out of respect for those who do not wish to read

such postings.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Myra,

I will definitely try Zyrtec with Zantac ! Thanks, would have never thought to

" try again " ! Ann

titus@... wrote:

> Not dumb questions, actually very good questions....... but this one

> is not easy to answer. The word " cholinergic " comes from the root

> word " choline " which is part of the B vitamin group which is

> component of lecthin. To say something is " cholinergic " is to say

> that is stimulated by choline, which is used by the parasympathetic

> nervous system or automatic nervous system which controls involuntary

> responses such as dialation of blood vessels, contracting of the

> pupils of the eyes when exposed to light, slowing down the heart

> rate, and increasing the activity of digestive, and reproductive

> organs and glands..etc. So the word " cholinergic " can apply to

> various functions of the parasympathic nervous system. When we say

> that someone has " cholinergic " urticaria, we are saying that this

> persons urticaria has something to do with a function of the

> parasympathetic nervous system..... usually that means the person is

> reacting to how his/her body heats up or cools down. Often Drs will

> call this " sweat " urticaria or they will explain it by saying the

> person is allergic to their own sweat.... which isn't really what is

> happening. What is happening is a chemical function of the nerves in

> the brain. Doxipen and meds like Prozac cross the blood barrier of

> the brain to address the function of the neuro-transmitters or the

> chemicals involved in neuro-transmitting.

>

> I notice that in your note to Jackie that you stated you have tried

> Zyrtec and it didn't work..... but before you through out the baby

> with the bathwater, you should try it in combo with Zantac. My

> daughter and many others were not helped by H1 alone, without an

> H2...... and visa versa. Hugs, Myra

>

> > Myra,

> > What do you mean when someone is cholinergic? Sorry if I'm asking

> dumb questions ! xoxox Ann

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> If you do wish to unsubscribe then you can click on the following link:

> urticaria-unsubscribeegroups

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> This list is in the service of those who suffer from Chronic Urticaria

(hives). We strive to support and lift each other as a worldwide cyber-family.

>

> We share whatever needs to be shared to help one another in our struggle with

Chronic Urticria. Information provided in this forum is not to be taken as

medical advice. Always consult your health professional before trying anything

new.

>

> Any posting that is off the main topic of Chronic Urticaria, we post with a

prefix of NCU -. This is done out of respect for those who do not wish to read

such postings.

>

>