Re: Fundamental Paroxysmal Afib Question

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/31/2004 11:07:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

mjdayton@... writes:

> Here's the question - why? Why does the heart suddenly decide

> it's had enough and convert back? How does this happen? Why doesn't

> it happen sooner? It obviously has some way of restoring NSR amidst

> the electrical chaos of afib.

>

>

Mike,

Because many afib episodes are tied to vasovagal stimulation, it may be in

some cases that when the stimulation of the vagus nerve, which controls both

digestion and heart rate, calms down, the stage is set for cardioversion to

sinus. At least this is the case in my experience. Whether the irritant is

stress, fatigue, or certain types of food, when my stomach is affected by these

triggers, ectopic beats begin and afib can be the next step. For this reason, I

would suspect that the electrical impulse that causes conversion begins with

calming the vagus nerve, at least for many afib sufferers. My cardiologist, for

example, believes that I have had very little afib since cutting dairy from

my diet because I have removed a source of vasovagal stimulation.

in sinus in Seattle

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/31/2004 11:07:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

mjdayton@... writes:

> Here's the question - why? Why does the heart suddenly decide

> it's had enough and convert back? How does this happen? Why doesn't

> it happen sooner? It obviously has some way of restoring NSR amidst

> the electrical chaos of afib.

>

>

Mike,

Because many afib episodes are tied to vasovagal stimulation, it may be in

some cases that when the stimulation of the vagus nerve, which controls both

digestion and heart rate, calms down, the stage is set for cardioversion to

sinus. At least this is the case in my experience. Whether the irritant is

stress, fatigue, or certain types of food, when my stomach is affected by these

triggers, ectopic beats begin and afib can be the next step. For this reason, I

would suspect that the electrical impulse that causes conversion begins with

calming the vagus nerve, at least for many afib sufferers. My cardiologist, for

example, believes that I have had very little afib since cutting dairy from

my diet because I have removed a source of vasovagal stimulation.

in sinus in Seattle

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/31/2004 11:07:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

mjdayton@... writes:

> Here's the question - why? Why does the heart suddenly decide

> it's had enough and convert back? How does this happen? Why doesn't

> it happen sooner? It obviously has some way of restoring NSR amidst

> the electrical chaos of afib.

>

>

Mike,

Because many afib episodes are tied to vasovagal stimulation, it may be in

some cases that when the stimulation of the vagus nerve, which controls both

digestion and heart rate, calms down, the stage is set for cardioversion to

sinus. At least this is the case in my experience. Whether the irritant is

stress, fatigue, or certain types of food, when my stomach is affected by these

triggers, ectopic beats begin and afib can be the next step. For this reason, I

would suspect that the electrical impulse that causes conversion begins with

calming the vagus nerve, at least for many afib sufferers. My cardiologist, for

example, believes that I have had very little afib since cutting dairy from

my diet because I have removed a source of vasovagal stimulation.

in sinus in Seattle

[Guest guest]

Mike wrote:

> I have paroxsymal afib of the mixed variety (best I can figure). My

> episodes generally last from say, 2-6 hours and then I convert back to

> NSR. Here's the question - why? Why does the heart suddenly decide

> it's had enough and convert back? How does this happen? Why doesn't

> it happen sooner? It obviously has some way of restoring NSR amidst

> the electrical chaos of afib.

> Mike Dayton

> Huntsville, AL

Hi Mike - I posted several times on this topic a while back on the LAF

forum, the complete thread can be viewed here...

http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

--

D

[Guest guest]

Mike wrote:

> I have paroxsymal afib of the mixed variety (best I can figure). My

> episodes generally last from say, 2-6 hours and then I convert back to

> NSR. Here's the question - why? Why does the heart suddenly decide

> it's had enough and convert back? How does this happen? Why doesn't

> it happen sooner? It obviously has some way of restoring NSR amidst

> the electrical chaos of afib.

> Mike Dayton

> Huntsville, AL

Hi Mike - I posted several times on this topic a while back on the LAF

forum, the complete thread can be viewed here...

http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

--

D

[Guest guest]

Mike wrote:

> I have paroxsymal afib of the mixed variety (best I can figure). My

> episodes generally last from say, 2-6 hours and then I convert back to

> NSR. Here's the question - why? Why does the heart suddenly decide

> it's had enough and convert back? How does this happen? Why doesn't

> it happen sooner? It obviously has some way of restoring NSR amidst

> the electrical chaos of afib.

> Mike Dayton

> Huntsville, AL

Hi Mike - I posted several times on this topic a while back on the LAF

forum, the complete thread can be viewed here...

http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

--

D

[Guest guest]

--- Driscoll wrote:

> Mike wrote:

> > I have paroxsymal afib of the mixed variety (best

> I can figure). My

> > episodes generally last from say, 2-6 hours and

> then I convert back to

> > NSR. Here's the question - why? Why does the

> heart suddenly decide

> > it's had enough and convert back?

> > Mike Dayton

> > Huntsville, AL

>

> Hi Mike - I posted several times on this topic a

> while back on the LAF

> forum, the complete thread can be viewed here...

> http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

> --

> D

I don't think I have ever been in AF long enough to

see if I would self convert. As freaked as I get when

I do have it (although I am not as bad), I don't think

I would like to find out how long. I guess you guys

are stronger willed than me. Maybe I shall become

more able to wait it out, I don't know how you do it.

My hat is off to you!

Kat in OH

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- Driscoll wrote:

> Mike wrote:

> > I have paroxsymal afib of the mixed variety (best

> I can figure). My

> > episodes generally last from say, 2-6 hours and

> then I convert back to

> > NSR. Here's the question - why? Why does the

> heart suddenly decide

> > it's had enough and convert back?

> > Mike Dayton

> > Huntsville, AL

>

> Hi Mike - I posted several times on this topic a

> while back on the LAF

> forum, the complete thread can be viewed here...

> http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

> --

> D

I don't think I have ever been in AF long enough to

see if I would self convert. As freaked as I get when

I do have it (although I am not as bad), I don't think

I would like to find out how long. I guess you guys

are stronger willed than me. Maybe I shall become

more able to wait it out, I don't know how you do it.

My hat is off to you!

Kat in OH

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- Driscoll wrote:

> Mike wrote:

> > I have paroxsymal afib of the mixed variety (best

> I can figure). My

> > episodes generally last from say, 2-6 hours and

> then I convert back to

> > NSR. Here's the question - why? Why does the

> heart suddenly decide

> > it's had enough and convert back?

> > Mike Dayton

> > Huntsville, AL

>

> Hi Mike - I posted several times on this topic a

> while back on the LAF

> forum, the complete thread can be viewed here...

> http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

> --

> D

I don't think I have ever been in AF long enough to

see if I would self convert. As freaked as I get when

I do have it (although I am not as bad), I don't think

I would like to find out how long. I guess you guys

are stronger willed than me. Maybe I shall become

more able to wait it out, I don't know how you do it.

My hat is off to you!

Kat in OH

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Mike wrote:

why? Why does the

> > heart suddenly decide

> > > it's had enough and convert back?

> > > Mike Dayton

> > > Huntsville, AL

> > http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

> > D

Hi D and y'all

here.

I once (5 years ago) spontaniouly converted reliably . I think the

alcohol poising (metobolates) wore off or the fat level in the blood

desaturated or the mineral /electrolytes recovered or the caffine

disappeared.

It alarms me that no-one seems to be researching this simple but

insightful question. I found the link sent instructive .There

were accounts of experiances there which surprised me .

The heart ; in its early experiance with the new circumstance (AF)

tries to run in its normal mode . The natural pacemaker is active

and at some point this dominent influence wins out.

The remodeling influence which are not at all subtle, make it more

and more difficult to break out of AF. So there is a risk with trying

to wait it out. I regret to say things could get worse . Mine did! I

got an infection with a serious gastric bacteria and two weeks later

the the meds had killed the bacteria but I was in persistent AF. I

have made a remarkablel lifestyle based recocvery (post

cardioversion ). I do not know what will befall me if I go into Afib

and do not spontaniously convert.

Some of our observation are probably hypothsis rather than

observations.

This subject requires some true science to uncover the answers.I hope

someone who understandds heart tissue right down to the cellular

level will develope an intrest in this.

> >

[Guest guest]

Mike wrote:

why? Why does the

> > heart suddenly decide

> > > it's had enough and convert back?

> > > Mike Dayton

> > > Huntsville, AL

> > http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

> > D

Hi D and y'all

here.

I once (5 years ago) spontaniouly converted reliably . I think the

alcohol poising (metobolates) wore off or the fat level in the blood

desaturated or the mineral /electrolytes recovered or the caffine

disappeared.

It alarms me that no-one seems to be researching this simple but

insightful question. I found the link sent instructive .There

were accounts of experiances there which surprised me .

The heart ; in its early experiance with the new circumstance (AF)

tries to run in its normal mode . The natural pacemaker is active

and at some point this dominent influence wins out.

The remodeling influence which are not at all subtle, make it more

and more difficult to break out of AF. So there is a risk with trying

to wait it out. I regret to say things could get worse . Mine did! I

got an infection with a serious gastric bacteria and two weeks later

the the meds had killed the bacteria but I was in persistent AF. I

have made a remarkablel lifestyle based recocvery (post

cardioversion ). I do not know what will befall me if I go into Afib

and do not spontaniously convert.

Some of our observation are probably hypothsis rather than

observations.

This subject requires some true science to uncover the answers.I hope

someone who understandds heart tissue right down to the cellular

level will develope an intrest in this.

> >

[Guest guest]

> > I have paroxsymal afib of the mixed variety (best I can figure).

My

> > episodes generally last from say, 2-6 hours and then I convert

back to

> > NSR. Here's the question - why? Why does the heart suddenly

decide

> > it's had enough and convert back? How does this happen? Why

doesn't

> > it happen sooner? It obviously has some way of restoring NSR

amidst

> > the electrical chaos of afib.

>

> > Mike Dayton

> > Huntsville, AL

>

> Hi Mike - I posted several times on this topic a while back on the

LAF

> forum, the complete thread can be viewed here...

> http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

> --

> D

I remember for many years avoiding triggers and that helping me to

avoid afib . towards the end of my afib creare I decided not to avoid

triggers and this ment more afib but much shorter episodes more

often and less intense.It was an option at the time.

Angus

[Guest guest]

Kathy Burkett writes:

>I don't think I have ever been in AF long enough to

>see if I would self convert. As freaked as I get when

>I do have it (although I am not as bad), I don't think

>I would like to find out how long. I guess you guys

>are stronger willed than me. Maybe I shall become

>more able to wait it out, I don't know how you do it.

> My hat is off to you!

Well, I'm probably no more stronger willed than you are. My episodes

are not that bad, really (most of the time). When I asked, my

cardiologist mentioned that my good physical condition and relatively

young age (just turned the big 4-0) allows me to cope with afib

attacks better than alot of people.

Mike Dayton

[Guest guest]

Kathy Burkett writes:

>I don't think I have ever been in AF long enough to

>see if I would self convert. As freaked as I get when

>I do have it (although I am not as bad), I don't think

>I would like to find out how long. I guess you guys

>are stronger willed than me. Maybe I shall become

>more able to wait it out, I don't know how you do it.

> My hat is off to you!

Well, I'm probably no more stronger willed than you are. My episodes

are not that bad, really (most of the time). When I asked, my

cardiologist mentioned that my good physical condition and relatively

young age (just turned the big 4-0) allows me to cope with afib

attacks better than alot of people.

Mike Dayton

[Guest guest]

Kathy Burkett writes:

>I don't think I have ever been in AF long enough to

>see if I would self convert. As freaked as I get when

>I do have it (although I am not as bad), I don't think

>I would like to find out how long. I guess you guys

>are stronger willed than me. Maybe I shall become

>more able to wait it out, I don't know how you do it.

> My hat is off to you!

Well, I'm probably no more stronger willed than you are. My episodes

are not that bad, really (most of the time). When I asked, my

cardiologist mentioned that my good physical condition and relatively

young age (just turned the big 4-0) allows me to cope with afib

attacks better than alot of people.

Mike Dayton

[Guest guest]

It may be that you are getting runs of ectopics that make you heart go into AF.

when the Ectopics stop then you heart goes back into NSR. You need to have a ten

point holter to see what is happening with your heart electrically.

C Uk

Re: Fundamental Paroxysmal Afib Question

> > I have paroxsymal afib of the mixed variety (best I can figure).

My

> > episodes generally last from say, 2-6 hours and then I convert

back to

> > NSR. Here's the question - why? Why does the heart suddenly

decide

> > it's had enough and convert back? How does this happen? Why

doesn't

> > it happen sooner? It obviously has some way of restoring NSR

amidst

> > the electrical chaos of afib.

>

> > Mike Dayton

> > Huntsville, AL

>

> Hi Mike - I posted several times on this topic a while back on the

LAF

> forum, the complete thread can be viewed here...

> http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

> --

> D

I remember for many years avoiding triggers and that helping me to

avoid afib . towards the end of my afib creare I decided not to avoid

triggers and this ment more afib but much shorter episodes more

often and less intense.It was an option at the time.

Angus

Web Page - http://www.afibsupport.com

List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be

acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

[Guest guest]

It may be that you are getting runs of ectopics that make you heart go into AF.

when the Ectopics stop then you heart goes back into NSR. You need to have a ten

point holter to see what is happening with your heart electrically.

C Uk

Re: Fundamental Paroxysmal Afib Question

> > I have paroxsymal afib of the mixed variety (best I can figure).

My

> > episodes generally last from say, 2-6 hours and then I convert

back to

> > NSR. Here's the question - why? Why does the heart suddenly

decide

> > it's had enough and convert back? How does this happen? Why

doesn't

> > it happen sooner? It obviously has some way of restoring NSR

amidst

> > the electrical chaos of afib.

>

> > Mike Dayton

> > Huntsville, AL

>

> Hi Mike - I posted several times on this topic a while back on the

LAF

> forum, the complete thread can be viewed here...

> http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

> --

> D

I remember for many years avoiding triggers and that helping me to

avoid afib . towards the end of my afib creare I decided not to avoid

triggers and this ment more afib but much shorter episodes more

often and less intense.It was an option at the time.

Angus

Web Page - http://www.afibsupport.com

List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be

acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

[Guest guest]

It may be that you are getting runs of ectopics that make you heart go into AF.

when the Ectopics stop then you heart goes back into NSR. You need to have a ten

point holter to see what is happening with your heart electrically.

C Uk

Re: Fundamental Paroxysmal Afib Question

> > I have paroxsymal afib of the mixed variety (best I can figure).

My

> > episodes generally last from say, 2-6 hours and then I convert

back to

> > NSR. Here's the question - why? Why does the heart suddenly

decide

> > it's had enough and convert back? How does this happen? Why

doesn't

> > it happen sooner? It obviously has some way of restoring NSR

amidst

> > the electrical chaos of afib.

>

> > Mike Dayton

> > Huntsville, AL

>

> Hi Mike - I posted several times on this topic a while back on the

LAF

> forum, the complete thread can be viewed here...

> http://www.afibbers.org/conference/session1.pdf

> --

> D

I remember for many years avoiding triggers and that helping me to

avoid afib . towards the end of my afib creare I decided not to avoid

triggers and this ment more afib but much shorter episodes more

often and less intense.It was an option at the time.

Angus

Web Page - http://www.afibsupport.com

List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be

acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

[Guest guest]

" angusinnz " writes:

>I remember for many years avoiding triggers and that helping me to

>avoid afib . towards the end of my afib creare I decided not to

>avoid triggers and this ment more afib but much shorter episodes

>more often and less intense.It was an option at the time.

I've had probably 200 afib episodes over the past three years and I

can't identify any definite triggers. And not from a lack of trying,

let me tell you. That has been one of the most frustrating things

about this to me. I have modified behaviors, added or deleted things

from my diet and tried everything I could thing of and nothing really

makes a difference.

I posted something a few weeks ago about sometimes being able to stave

off an afib episode by altering my breathing. Having read alot of the

info that D lead me to (thanks), I think I have some insight

into why. Years ago, I was told that I have an arrythmia in that my

heart rate changes as I breathe. It slows down during pauses between

breaths and speeds up when I take a breath. I had always thought this

was normal, but after scaring me to death by hooking me up to an EKG

during a routine check up, I was told it is not. Anyway, maybe the

ability to slow my heart rate consciously helps out somewhat.

Mike Dayton

NSR since Monday!!!!! :>)

[Guest guest]

" angusinnz " writes:

>I remember for many years avoiding triggers and that helping me to

>avoid afib . towards the end of my afib creare I decided not to

>avoid triggers and this ment more afib but much shorter episodes

>more often and less intense.It was an option at the time.

I've had probably 200 afib episodes over the past three years and I

can't identify any definite triggers. And not from a lack of trying,

let me tell you. That has been one of the most frustrating things

about this to me. I have modified behaviors, added or deleted things

from my diet and tried everything I could thing of and nothing really

makes a difference.

I posted something a few weeks ago about sometimes being able to stave

off an afib episode by altering my breathing. Having read alot of the

info that D lead me to (thanks), I think I have some insight

into why. Years ago, I was told that I have an arrythmia in that my

heart rate changes as I breathe. It slows down during pauses between

breaths and speeds up when I take a breath. I had always thought this

was normal, but after scaring me to death by hooking me up to an EKG

during a routine check up, I was told it is not. Anyway, maybe the

ability to slow my heart rate consciously helps out somewhat.

Mike Dayton

NSR since Monday!!!!! :>)

[Guest guest]

> I think I have some insight

> into why. Years ago, I was told that I have an arrythmia in that

my

> heart rate changes as I breathe. It slows down during pauses

between

> breaths and speeds up when I take a breath. I had always thought

this

> was normal, but after scaring me to death by hooking me up to an

EKG

> during a routine check up, I was told it is not.

I thought it was, I think I asked my doc about it when it happened to

me awhile ago. On the web I just found:

One of the most common arrhythmias is sinus arrhythmia, the change

in heart rate that can occur normally when we take a breath. These

experiences may cause anxiety, but for the majority of people, they

are completely harmless.

[Guest guest]

> I think I have some insight

> into why. Years ago, I was told that I have an arrythmia in that

my

> heart rate changes as I breathe. It slows down during pauses

between

> breaths and speeds up when I take a breath. I had always thought

this

> was normal, but after scaring me to death by hooking me up to an

EKG

> during a routine check up, I was told it is not.

I thought it was, I think I asked my doc about it when it happened to

me awhile ago. On the web I just found:

One of the most common arrhythmias is sinus arrhythmia, the change

in heart rate that can occur normally when we take a breath. These

experiences may cause anxiety, but for the majority of people, they

are completely harmless.

[Guest guest]

regarding my " other " arrhythmia, Trudy writes:

>I thought it was, I think I asked my doc about it when it happened to

>me awhile ago. On the web I just found:

>One of the most common arrhythmias is sinus arrhythmia, the change

>in heart rate that can occur normally when we take a breath. These

>experiences may cause anxiety, but for the majority of people, they

>are completely harmless.

Thanks for the info, Trudy. I never knew this. This happened so many

years ago that I had pretty much forgotten about it. I worked at a

nuclear plant at the time and they were obsessed with employee safety

and hooked me up to an EKG when I was in for a yearly physical at the

plant and proceeded to merely say I had a heart arrhythmia and then

sent me back into the plant. :>)

As for the Holter monitor suggestion. BTDT. The cardiologist spent

some time checking out my readings and said that I had some abnormal

stuff going on, but said overall it was " fairly OK " and nothing that

he thought should be treated.

Easy for him to say.

Mike Dayton

Huntsville, AL

[Guest guest]

regarding my " other " arrhythmia, Trudy writes:

>I thought it was, I think I asked my doc about it when it happened to

>me awhile ago. On the web I just found:

>One of the most common arrhythmias is sinus arrhythmia, the change

>in heart rate that can occur normally when we take a breath. These

>experiences may cause anxiety, but for the majority of people, they

>are completely harmless.

Thanks for the info, Trudy. I never knew this. This happened so many

years ago that I had pretty much forgotten about it. I worked at a

nuclear plant at the time and they were obsessed with employee safety

and hooked me up to an EKG when I was in for a yearly physical at the

plant and proceeded to merely say I had a heart arrhythmia and then

sent me back into the plant. :>)

As for the Holter monitor suggestion. BTDT. The cardiologist spent

some time checking out my readings and said that I had some abnormal

stuff going on, but said overall it was " fairly OK " and nothing that

he thought should be treated.

Easy for him to say.

Mike Dayton

Huntsville, AL