Re: Have Test Results and Going to See Endo on Monday -- Need Advice Please

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy. I thought I answered your post. I may have changed the

subject line. Anyway, we are glad you posted again. It's never

anything personal--it's just the drawback of a large, active

group. ( And I see that Sandy in Houston has given you a great

answer!!

My two bits: Unfortunately, going to an Endo is the absolute worst

doc to go to for good thyroid care, or even to get Armour. So don't

be surprised if you meet extreme resistance, which I will hope isn't

the case. And...even if you do get that Endo to prescribe your

Armour, your next problem will be being allowed ENOUGH Armour.

Endo's are lab-obsessed, Judy. And especially TSH. And when you

start on Armour, the TSH HAS TO BE IGNORED. But Endos will see it

going below one, and they freak out, saying you are hyper when you

are not. Remember that, Judy. My TSH last March was .009 on an

optimal dose of Armour (when my free T3 was over the top), and I

have even increased since then. I feel great.

Generally, one grain is a good amount to start on. But...after about

3 weeks, you need to start raising a bit at a time--I've seen folks

do great going up 1/2 grain at a time. Otherwise, your hypo will

return with a vengeance after those 3 weeks or so on the starting

dose.

Once you get up to 2 grains or more, it's very wise to start holding

the doses for 4-5 weeks or so to see the effect of the T4 conversion

to T3. T3 is immediate, but T4 takes time to build. By the way, I

was on .125 Synthroid (Levoxyl) and am now at 3 1/4 grains Armour.

When you are using labs, your goal is to get that free T3 at the top

of the range. And even better, Judy, once you get up to 2 grains or

more, is to start dosing by symptoms, not labs, if you can get away

with it.

Keep us informed. A wonderful life with energy and stamina and great

health is ahead of you!! And if you haven't read the articles in the

FILES, I hope you will tomorrow before your appointment. There's a

good one at the beginning called Dear Doctor, and another on

TSH...plus many more. Being educated for that appointment is your

best weapon!

Janie ) in Colorado

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages

posted on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in

response to

> mine.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy. I thought I answered your post. I may have changed the

subject line. Anyway, we are glad you posted again. It's never

anything personal--it's just the drawback of a large, active

group. ( And I see that Sandy in Houston has given you a great

answer!!

My two bits: Unfortunately, going to an Endo is the absolute worst

doc to go to for good thyroid care, or even to get Armour. So don't

be surprised if you meet extreme resistance, which I will hope isn't

the case. And...even if you do get that Endo to prescribe your

Armour, your next problem will be being allowed ENOUGH Armour.

Endo's are lab-obsessed, Judy. And especially TSH. And when you

start on Armour, the TSH HAS TO BE IGNORED. But Endos will see it

going below one, and they freak out, saying you are hyper when you

are not. Remember that, Judy. My TSH last March was .009 on an

optimal dose of Armour (when my free T3 was over the top), and I

have even increased since then. I feel great.

Generally, one grain is a good amount to start on. But...after about

3 weeks, you need to start raising a bit at a time--I've seen folks

do great going up 1/2 grain at a time. Otherwise, your hypo will

return with a vengeance after those 3 weeks or so on the starting

dose.

Once you get up to 2 grains or more, it's very wise to start holding

the doses for 4-5 weeks or so to see the effect of the T4 conversion

to T3. T3 is immediate, but T4 takes time to build. By the way, I

was on .125 Synthroid (Levoxyl) and am now at 3 1/4 grains Armour.

When you are using labs, your goal is to get that free T3 at the top

of the range. And even better, Judy, once you get up to 2 grains or

more, is to start dosing by symptoms, not labs, if you can get away

with it.

Keep us informed. A wonderful life with energy and stamina and great

health is ahead of you!! And if you haven't read the articles in the

FILES, I hope you will tomorrow before your appointment. There's a

good one at the beginning called Dear Doctor, and another on

TSH...plus many more. Being educated for that appointment is your

best weapon!

Janie ) in Colorado

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages

posted on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in

response to

> mine.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy. I thought I answered your post. I may have changed the

subject line. Anyway, we are glad you posted again. It's never

anything personal--it's just the drawback of a large, active

group. ( And I see that Sandy in Houston has given you a great

answer!!

My two bits: Unfortunately, going to an Endo is the absolute worst

doc to go to for good thyroid care, or even to get Armour. So don't

be surprised if you meet extreme resistance, which I will hope isn't

the case. And...even if you do get that Endo to prescribe your

Armour, your next problem will be being allowed ENOUGH Armour.

Endo's are lab-obsessed, Judy. And especially TSH. And when you

start on Armour, the TSH HAS TO BE IGNORED. But Endos will see it

going below one, and they freak out, saying you are hyper when you

are not. Remember that, Judy. My TSH last March was .009 on an

optimal dose of Armour (when my free T3 was over the top), and I

have even increased since then. I feel great.

Generally, one grain is a good amount to start on. But...after about

3 weeks, you need to start raising a bit at a time--I've seen folks

do great going up 1/2 grain at a time. Otherwise, your hypo will

return with a vengeance after those 3 weeks or so on the starting

dose.

Once you get up to 2 grains or more, it's very wise to start holding

the doses for 4-5 weeks or so to see the effect of the T4 conversion

to T3. T3 is immediate, but T4 takes time to build. By the way, I

was on .125 Synthroid (Levoxyl) and am now at 3 1/4 grains Armour.

When you are using labs, your goal is to get that free T3 at the top

of the range. And even better, Judy, once you get up to 2 grains or

more, is to start dosing by symptoms, not labs, if you can get away

with it.

Keep us informed. A wonderful life with energy and stamina and great

health is ahead of you!! And if you haven't read the articles in the

FILES, I hope you will tomorrow before your appointment. There's a

good one at the beginning called Dear Doctor, and another on

TSH...plus many more. Being educated for that appointment is your

best weapon!

Janie ) in Colorado

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages

posted on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in

response to

> mine.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages posted

> on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in response to

> mine.

>

> I got some great responses 2 weeks ago when asking what thyroid tests

> to ask

> for. I was able to get Free T3, Free T4, and Thyroid Antibodies, in

> addition

> to TSH.

>

> I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2 months. I

> feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I

> started it.

hi judy,

in a situation where your adrenal output is low, taking thyroid meds

for your condition will only make you feel worse. you should get your

adrenals tested to see where they're at.

conversely, a switch to armour might make a difference, if let's say,

levothroid is not the med for you. but not if your adrenals are

low--armour would make you feel worse as well.

there are a few signs of low adrenals. many of the symptoms overlap a

hypothyroid but a clue is when you find yourself having very little

energy in the mornings and afternoons and more in the evenings,

sometimes causing sleep disorders.

best,

baron

[Guest guest]

>

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages posted

> on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in response to

> mine.

>

> I got some great responses 2 weeks ago when asking what thyroid tests

> to ask

> for. I was able to get Free T3, Free T4, and Thyroid Antibodies, in

> addition

> to TSH.

>

> I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2 months. I

> feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I

> started it.

hi judy,

in a situation where your adrenal output is low, taking thyroid meds

for your condition will only make you feel worse. you should get your

adrenals tested to see where they're at.

conversely, a switch to armour might make a difference, if let's say,

levothroid is not the med for you. but not if your adrenals are

low--armour would make you feel worse as well.

there are a few signs of low adrenals. many of the symptoms overlap a

hypothyroid but a clue is when you find yourself having very little

energy in the mornings and afternoons and more in the evenings,

sometimes causing sleep disorders.

best,

baron

[Guest guest]

>

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages posted

> on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in response to

> mine.

>

> I got some great responses 2 weeks ago when asking what thyroid tests

> to ask

> for. I was able to get Free T3, Free T4, and Thyroid Antibodies, in

> addition

> to TSH.

>

> I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2 months. I

> feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I

> started it.

hi judy,

in a situation where your adrenal output is low, taking thyroid meds

for your condition will only make you feel worse. you should get your

adrenals tested to see where they're at.

conversely, a switch to armour might make a difference, if let's say,

levothroid is not the med for you. but not if your adrenals are

low--armour would make you feel worse as well.

there are a few signs of low adrenals. many of the symptoms overlap a

hypothyroid but a clue is when you find yourself having very little

energy in the mornings and afternoons and more in the evenings,

sometimes causing sleep disorders.

best,

baron

[Guest guest]

just to re-affirm what sandy said...i got my dr from the list i

received from the broda barnes foundation and my first visit on wed was

excellent, and i am now very optimistic about being well. best $15 i

ever spent.

b

>

> Hi Judy, I'm sorry but I've been dealing with a brother who's had a

> heart attack recently, and I usually always have plenty to say about

> labs. (big grin). :-)

>

> If my labs were like yours, I'd be hypo without a doubt. I have

> found that I can ignore TSH as long as my FT3 and FT4 are in the

> upper ranges. I don't know anything about the meds you are taking,

> but if what you're taking isn't helping, then there are other things

> that can be contributing to your feeling badly.

>

> Ferritin is one (iron storage) which I've had problems with before

> (years ago). I'm getting ready to have mine tested. That need to be

> no less than 50-60 and stay in that range. Your dr can test this for

> you if they will, if not, you can get it done if you're in the states

> through healthcheckUSA.com. It's about 18.00 for Ferritin testing.

>

> Depending on your age, female hormones can have an effect on how you

> feel, as you've read on here. I've not addressed any of those things

> although I plan to persue it shortly with my gyno on my next visit.

> Somebody else will have info on that.

>

> Your dr's insistance on not prescribing Armour and trying everything

> else does not surprise me. Dr's are told all kinds of things about

> Armour. A lot of which is just flat untruths. That is how so many

> of us have come to have to depend on self medicating. I took that

> plunge back in April of this year when I felt bad, had too many

> symptoms of hypoT and couldn't get a prescription for anything. I

> was very disappointed, but my Dr is a TSH dr, and he discounted

> symptoms which go hand in hand with the proper testing, as you

> yourself will find.

>

> I read lots of posts on the net, in email groups and at about.com

> where people are told that it's common to take at least a yr or

> better, to get the levels right. I find that unacceptable for me. I

> took to Armour like a duck takes to water, and I just refuse to go

> back to anything else. It's made the difference in my life that I've

> longed for. I feel better than I did when I was a teenager? Go

> figure? BTW, my problems started when I was 15.

>

> Getting a dr to merely prescribe Armour is half the battle, but I

> sense a lot of people still have problems, then are told that they

> can't take it, too much T3, blah, blah, which means your dr knows

> nothing about how it should be dosed or the other things that can

> cause you to not be able to feel better on Armour. Once those issues

> are addressed, the problems will subside and you'll feel better than

> you have in years. If you find that you're problems aren't going to

> be addressed, I'd suggest going to www.brodabarnes.org and pay the

> 15.00 for a list of dr;s in your area who knows about his work in

> hypothyroidism. There are a lot of dr's out there, I've chosen to

> stop actively looking for one at this point. I've found what works

> for me and intend to continue this path I've chosen. One day when my

> finances are better, and I stumble onto somebody who's got the

> knowledge about testing for hypoT and I can afford them, I'll be

> happy, but in the meantime, I refuse to be sick and unable to

> function. Every dr I've found thus far is just so misinformed, and I

> just refuse to support their lavish lifestyles which don't help me in

> the least. My motto is, hit them where they live (in the wallet).

> lol.

>

> If you've not read HypoThyroidism, The Unsuspected Ilness, by Broda

> , it's a keeper. Definately worth ordering and it's not

> expensive.

>

> SandyE~Houston

>

>

>

> Have Test Results and Going to

> See Endo on Monday -- Need Advice Please

>

>

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages

> posted on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in

> response to

> mine.

>

> I got some great responses 2 weeks ago when asking what thyroid

> tests to ask

> for. I was able to get Free T3, Free T4, and Thyroid Antibodies, in

> addition

> to TSH.

>

> I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2

> months. I

> feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I

> started it.

> My Primary Care Physician consulted with an Endo who wanted her to

> double the

> Levothroid, rather than give me the Armour I've been asking for since the

> beginning. I refused more of the Levothroid, and asked for Armour.

> I'm seeing an

> Endo (not the one my Dr. talked to) on Monday morning. I plan to ask for

> Armour, and will take documentation from the group files and other

> research I've

> done. It's my intent to leave the appointment with a prescription

> for Armour, so

> I hope that's the case.

>

> If so, what kind of dosage should I expect is reasonable to get to start?

> Also, how soon should I expect to adjust the dosage? And, how soon

> should I

> expect the Dr. to repeat the labs -- and will I want the same ones

> done as this

> time?

>

> My test results are:

>

> TSH 4.2 uIU/mL Normal Range: 0.2 - 5.5

> Free T4(Analog) 1.1 ng/dL Normal Range: 0.8 - 1.7

> Anti TPO 153 IU/mL Normal Range: less than 35

> Free T3 Nondial 213 pg/dL 230 - 420

>

> Thanks, Judy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

just to re-affirm what sandy said...i got my dr from the list i

received from the broda barnes foundation and my first visit on wed was

excellent, and i am now very optimistic about being well. best $15 i

ever spent.

b

>

> Hi Judy, I'm sorry but I've been dealing with a brother who's had a

> heart attack recently, and I usually always have plenty to say about

> labs. (big grin). :-)

>

> If my labs were like yours, I'd be hypo without a doubt. I have

> found that I can ignore TSH as long as my FT3 and FT4 are in the

> upper ranges. I don't know anything about the meds you are taking,

> but if what you're taking isn't helping, then there are other things

> that can be contributing to your feeling badly.

>

> Ferritin is one (iron storage) which I've had problems with before

> (years ago). I'm getting ready to have mine tested. That need to be

> no less than 50-60 and stay in that range. Your dr can test this for

> you if they will, if not, you can get it done if you're in the states

> through healthcheckUSA.com. It's about 18.00 for Ferritin testing.

>

> Depending on your age, female hormones can have an effect on how you

> feel, as you've read on here. I've not addressed any of those things

> although I plan to persue it shortly with my gyno on my next visit.

> Somebody else will have info on that.

>

> Your dr's insistance on not prescribing Armour and trying everything

> else does not surprise me. Dr's are told all kinds of things about

> Armour. A lot of which is just flat untruths. That is how so many

> of us have come to have to depend on self medicating. I took that

> plunge back in April of this year when I felt bad, had too many

> symptoms of hypoT and couldn't get a prescription for anything. I

> was very disappointed, but my Dr is a TSH dr, and he discounted

> symptoms which go hand in hand with the proper testing, as you

> yourself will find.

>

> I read lots of posts on the net, in email groups and at about.com

> where people are told that it's common to take at least a yr or

> better, to get the levels right. I find that unacceptable for me. I

> took to Armour like a duck takes to water, and I just refuse to go

> back to anything else. It's made the difference in my life that I've

> longed for. I feel better than I did when I was a teenager? Go

> figure? BTW, my problems started when I was 15.

>

> Getting a dr to merely prescribe Armour is half the battle, but I

> sense a lot of people still have problems, then are told that they

> can't take it, too much T3, blah, blah, which means your dr knows

> nothing about how it should be dosed or the other things that can

> cause you to not be able to feel better on Armour. Once those issues

> are addressed, the problems will subside and you'll feel better than

> you have in years. If you find that you're problems aren't going to

> be addressed, I'd suggest going to www.brodabarnes.org and pay the

> 15.00 for a list of dr;s in your area who knows about his work in

> hypothyroidism. There are a lot of dr's out there, I've chosen to

> stop actively looking for one at this point. I've found what works

> for me and intend to continue this path I've chosen. One day when my

> finances are better, and I stumble onto somebody who's got the

> knowledge about testing for hypoT and I can afford them, I'll be

> happy, but in the meantime, I refuse to be sick and unable to

> function. Every dr I've found thus far is just so misinformed, and I

> just refuse to support their lavish lifestyles which don't help me in

> the least. My motto is, hit them where they live (in the wallet).

> lol.

>

> If you've not read HypoThyroidism, The Unsuspected Ilness, by Broda

> , it's a keeper. Definately worth ordering and it's not

> expensive.

>

> SandyE~Houston

>

>

>

> Have Test Results and Going to

> See Endo on Monday -- Need Advice Please

>

>

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages

> posted on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in

> response to

> mine.

>

> I got some great responses 2 weeks ago when asking what thyroid

> tests to ask

> for. I was able to get Free T3, Free T4, and Thyroid Antibodies, in

> addition

> to TSH.

>

> I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2

> months. I

> feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I

> started it.

> My Primary Care Physician consulted with an Endo who wanted her to

> double the

> Levothroid, rather than give me the Armour I've been asking for since the

> beginning. I refused more of the Levothroid, and asked for Armour.

> I'm seeing an

> Endo (not the one my Dr. talked to) on Monday morning. I plan to ask for

> Armour, and will take documentation from the group files and other

> research I've

> done. It's my intent to leave the appointment with a prescription

> for Armour, so

> I hope that's the case.

>

> If so, what kind of dosage should I expect is reasonable to get to start?

> Also, how soon should I expect to adjust the dosage? And, how soon

> should I

> expect the Dr. to repeat the labs -- and will I want the same ones

> done as this

> time?

>

> My test results are:

>

> TSH 4.2 uIU/mL Normal Range: 0.2 - 5.5

> Free T4(Analog) 1.1 ng/dL Normal Range: 0.8 - 1.7

> Anti TPO 153 IU/mL Normal Range: less than 35

> Free T3 Nondial 213 pg/dL 230 - 420

>

> Thanks, Judy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

just to re-affirm what sandy said...i got my dr from the list i

received from the broda barnes foundation and my first visit on wed was

excellent, and i am now very optimistic about being well. best $15 i

ever spent.

b

>

> Hi Judy, I'm sorry but I've been dealing with a brother who's had a

> heart attack recently, and I usually always have plenty to say about

> labs. (big grin). :-)

>

> If my labs were like yours, I'd be hypo without a doubt. I have

> found that I can ignore TSH as long as my FT3 and FT4 are in the

> upper ranges. I don't know anything about the meds you are taking,

> but if what you're taking isn't helping, then there are other things

> that can be contributing to your feeling badly.

>

> Ferritin is one (iron storage) which I've had problems with before

> (years ago). I'm getting ready to have mine tested. That need to be

> no less than 50-60 and stay in that range. Your dr can test this for

> you if they will, if not, you can get it done if you're in the states

> through healthcheckUSA.com. It's about 18.00 for Ferritin testing.

>

> Depending on your age, female hormones can have an effect on how you

> feel, as you've read on here. I've not addressed any of those things

> although I plan to persue it shortly with my gyno on my next visit.

> Somebody else will have info on that.

>

> Your dr's insistance on not prescribing Armour and trying everything

> else does not surprise me. Dr's are told all kinds of things about

> Armour. A lot of which is just flat untruths. That is how so many

> of us have come to have to depend on self medicating. I took that

> plunge back in April of this year when I felt bad, had too many

> symptoms of hypoT and couldn't get a prescription for anything. I

> was very disappointed, but my Dr is a TSH dr, and he discounted

> symptoms which go hand in hand with the proper testing, as you

> yourself will find.

>

> I read lots of posts on the net, in email groups and at about.com

> where people are told that it's common to take at least a yr or

> better, to get the levels right. I find that unacceptable for me. I

> took to Armour like a duck takes to water, and I just refuse to go

> back to anything else. It's made the difference in my life that I've

> longed for. I feel better than I did when I was a teenager? Go

> figure? BTW, my problems started when I was 15.

>

> Getting a dr to merely prescribe Armour is half the battle, but I

> sense a lot of people still have problems, then are told that they

> can't take it, too much T3, blah, blah, which means your dr knows

> nothing about how it should be dosed or the other things that can

> cause you to not be able to feel better on Armour. Once those issues

> are addressed, the problems will subside and you'll feel better than

> you have in years. If you find that you're problems aren't going to

> be addressed, I'd suggest going to www.brodabarnes.org and pay the

> 15.00 for a list of dr;s in your area who knows about his work in

> hypothyroidism. There are a lot of dr's out there, I've chosen to

> stop actively looking for one at this point. I've found what works

> for me and intend to continue this path I've chosen. One day when my

> finances are better, and I stumble onto somebody who's got the

> knowledge about testing for hypoT and I can afford them, I'll be

> happy, but in the meantime, I refuse to be sick and unable to

> function. Every dr I've found thus far is just so misinformed, and I

> just refuse to support their lavish lifestyles which don't help me in

> the least. My motto is, hit them where they live (in the wallet).

> lol.

>

> If you've not read HypoThyroidism, The Unsuspected Ilness, by Broda

> , it's a keeper. Definately worth ordering and it's not

> expensive.

>

> SandyE~Houston

>

>

>

> Have Test Results and Going to

> See Endo on Monday -- Need Advice Please

>

>

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages

> posted on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in

> response to

> mine.

>

> I got some great responses 2 weeks ago when asking what thyroid

> tests to ask

> for. I was able to get Free T3, Free T4, and Thyroid Antibodies, in

> addition

> to TSH.

>

> I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2

> months. I

> feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I

> started it.

> My Primary Care Physician consulted with an Endo who wanted her to

> double the

> Levothroid, rather than give me the Armour I've been asking for since the

> beginning. I refused more of the Levothroid, and asked for Armour.

> I'm seeing an

> Endo (not the one my Dr. talked to) on Monday morning. I plan to ask for

> Armour, and will take documentation from the group files and other

> research I've

> done. It's my intent to leave the appointment with a prescription

> for Armour, so

> I hope that's the case.

>

> If so, what kind of dosage should I expect is reasonable to get to start?

> Also, how soon should I expect to adjust the dosage? And, how soon

> should I

> expect the Dr. to repeat the labs -- and will I want the same ones

> done as this

> time?

>

> My test results are:

>

> TSH 4.2 uIU/mL Normal Range: 0.2 - 5.5

> Free T4(Analog) 1.1 ng/dL Normal Range: 0.8 - 1.7

> Anti TPO 153 IU/mL Normal Range: less than 35

> Free T3 Nondial 213 pg/dL 230 - 420

>

> Thanks, Judy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy, I'm sorry but I've been dealing with a brother who's had a heart attack

recently, and I usually always have plenty to say about labs. (big grin). :-)

If my labs were like yours, I'd be hypo without a doubt. I have found that I

can ignore TSH as long as my FT3 and FT4 are in the upper ranges. I don't know

anything about the meds you are taking, but if what you're taking isn't helping,

then there are other things that can be contributing to your feeling badly.

Ferritin is one (iron storage) which I've had problems with before (years ago).

I'm getting ready to have mine tested. That need to be no less than 50-60 and

stay in that range. Your dr can test this for you if they will, if not, you can

get it done if you're in the states through healthcheckUSA.com. It's about

18.00 for Ferritin testing.

Depending on your age, female hormones can have an effect on how you feel, as

you've read on here. I've not addressed any of those things although I plan to

persue it shortly with my gyno on my next visit. Somebody else will have info

on that.

Your dr's insistance on not prescribing Armour and trying everything else does

not surprise me. Dr's are told all kinds of things about Armour. A lot of

which is just flat untruths. That is how so many of us have come to have to

depend on self medicating. I took that plunge back in April of this year when I

felt bad, had too many symptoms of hypoT and couldn't get a prescription for

anything. I was very disappointed, but my Dr is a TSH dr, and he discounted

symptoms which go hand in hand with the proper testing, as you yourself will

find.

I read lots of posts on the net, in email groups and at about.com where people

are told that it's common to take at least a yr or better, to get the levels

right. I find that unacceptable for me. I took to Armour like a duck takes to

water, and I just refuse to go back to anything else. It's made the difference

in my life that I've longed for. I feel better than I did when I was a

teenager? Go figure? BTW, my problems started when I was 15.

Getting a dr to merely prescribe Armour is half the battle, but I sense a lot

of people still have problems, then are told that they can't take it, too much

T3, blah, blah, which means your dr knows nothing about how it should be dosed

or the other things that can cause you to not be able to feel better on Armour.

Once those issues are addressed, the problems will subside and you'll feel

better than you have in years. If you find that you're problems aren't going

to be addressed, I'd suggest going to www.brodabarnes.org and pay the 15.00 for

a list of dr;s in your area who knows about his work in hypothyroidism. There

are a lot of dr's out there, I've chosen to stop actively looking for one at

this point. I've found what works for me and intend to continue this path I've

chosen. One day when my finances are better, and I stumble onto somebody who's

got the knowledge about testing for hypoT and I can afford them, I'll be happy,

but in the meantime, I refuse to be sick and unable to function. Every dr I've

found thus far is just so misinformed, and I just refuse to support their lavish

lifestyles which don't help me in the least. My motto is, hit them where they

live (in the wallet). lol.

If you've not read HypoThyroidism, The Unsuspected Ilness, by Broda , it's

a keeper. Definately worth ordering and it's not expensive.

SandyE~Houston

Have Test Results and Going to See Endo on

Monday -- Need Advice Please

I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages posted on the

group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in response to

mine.

I got some great responses 2 weeks ago when asking what thyroid tests to ask

for. I was able to get Free T3, Free T4, and Thyroid Antibodies, in addition

to TSH.

I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2 months. I

feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I started

it.

My Primary Care Physician consulted with an Endo who wanted her to double the

Levothroid, rather than give me the Armour I've been asking for since the

beginning. I refused more of the Levothroid, and asked for Armour. I'm seeing

an

Endo (not the one my Dr. talked to) on Monday morning. I plan to ask for

Armour, and will take documentation from the group files and other research

I've

done. It's my intent to leave the appointment with a prescription for Armour,

so

I hope that's the case.

If so, what kind of dosage should I expect is reasonable to get to start?

Also, how soon should I expect to adjust the dosage? And, how soon should I

expect the Dr. to repeat the labs -- and will I want the same ones done as

this

time?

My test results are:

TSH 4.2 uIU/mL Normal Range: 0.2 - 5.5

Free T4(Analog) 1.1 ng/dL Normal Range: 0.8 - 1.7

Anti TPO 153 IU/mL Normal Range: less than 35

Free T3 Nondial 213 pg/dL 230 - 420

Thanks, Judy

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy, I'm sorry but I've been dealing with a brother who's had a heart attack

recently, and I usually always have plenty to say about labs. (big grin). :-)

If my labs were like yours, I'd be hypo without a doubt. I have found that I

can ignore TSH as long as my FT3 and FT4 are in the upper ranges. I don't know

anything about the meds you are taking, but if what you're taking isn't helping,

then there are other things that can be contributing to your feeling badly.

Ferritin is one (iron storage) which I've had problems with before (years ago).

I'm getting ready to have mine tested. That need to be no less than 50-60 and

stay in that range. Your dr can test this for you if they will, if not, you can

get it done if you're in the states through healthcheckUSA.com. It's about

18.00 for Ferritin testing.

Depending on your age, female hormones can have an effect on how you feel, as

you've read on here. I've not addressed any of those things although I plan to

persue it shortly with my gyno on my next visit. Somebody else will have info

on that.

Your dr's insistance on not prescribing Armour and trying everything else does

not surprise me. Dr's are told all kinds of things about Armour. A lot of

which is just flat untruths. That is how so many of us have come to have to

depend on self medicating. I took that plunge back in April of this year when I

felt bad, had too many symptoms of hypoT and couldn't get a prescription for

anything. I was very disappointed, but my Dr is a TSH dr, and he discounted

symptoms which go hand in hand with the proper testing, as you yourself will

find.

I read lots of posts on the net, in email groups and at about.com where people

are told that it's common to take at least a yr or better, to get the levels

right. I find that unacceptable for me. I took to Armour like a duck takes to

water, and I just refuse to go back to anything else. It's made the difference

in my life that I've longed for. I feel better than I did when I was a

teenager? Go figure? BTW, my problems started when I was 15.

Getting a dr to merely prescribe Armour is half the battle, but I sense a lot

of people still have problems, then are told that they can't take it, too much

T3, blah, blah, which means your dr knows nothing about how it should be dosed

or the other things that can cause you to not be able to feel better on Armour.

Once those issues are addressed, the problems will subside and you'll feel

better than you have in years. If you find that you're problems aren't going

to be addressed, I'd suggest going to www.brodabarnes.org and pay the 15.00 for

a list of dr;s in your area who knows about his work in hypothyroidism. There

are a lot of dr's out there, I've chosen to stop actively looking for one at

this point. I've found what works for me and intend to continue this path I've

chosen. One day when my finances are better, and I stumble onto somebody who's

got the knowledge about testing for hypoT and I can afford them, I'll be happy,

but in the meantime, I refuse to be sick and unable to function. Every dr I've

found thus far is just so misinformed, and I just refuse to support their lavish

lifestyles which don't help me in the least. My motto is, hit them where they

live (in the wallet). lol.

If you've not read HypoThyroidism, The Unsuspected Ilness, by Broda , it's

a keeper. Definately worth ordering and it's not expensive.

SandyE~Houston

Have Test Results and Going to See Endo on

Monday -- Need Advice Please

I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages posted on the

group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in response to

mine.

I got some great responses 2 weeks ago when asking what thyroid tests to ask

for. I was able to get Free T3, Free T4, and Thyroid Antibodies, in addition

to TSH.

I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2 months. I

feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I started

it.

My Primary Care Physician consulted with an Endo who wanted her to double the

Levothroid, rather than give me the Armour I've been asking for since the

beginning. I refused more of the Levothroid, and asked for Armour. I'm seeing

an

Endo (not the one my Dr. talked to) on Monday morning. I plan to ask for

Armour, and will take documentation from the group files and other research

I've

done. It's my intent to leave the appointment with a prescription for Armour,

so

I hope that's the case.

If so, what kind of dosage should I expect is reasonable to get to start?

Also, how soon should I expect to adjust the dosage? And, how soon should I

expect the Dr. to repeat the labs -- and will I want the same ones done as

this

time?

My test results are:

TSH 4.2 uIU/mL Normal Range: 0.2 - 5.5

Free T4(Analog) 1.1 ng/dL Normal Range: 0.8 - 1.7

Anti TPO 153 IU/mL Normal Range: less than 35

Free T3 Nondial 213 pg/dL 230 - 420

Thanks, Judy

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sandy. I do know I'm hypo. I was diagnosed 4 months ago, and that's

why I've been taking the Levothroid. The tests results I posted are frm Sept.

29th, after 3-1/2 months on the .025 mg. per day.

I am menopausal and have used natural progesterone cream with good results

for more than a year for that balance; in addition to supplementing with

multivitamins, B-complex, Natural Vit. E, Vit. C, and Calcium. My doses were

those

recommended for menopause; and a couple of months ago a added some extra B6 and

Selenium. There was a list of supplements recommended by Dr. Aren posted on

another Thyroid group, and what I was taking covered all but those.

Right now, my Dr. wants to double the Levothroid (generic Synthroid); and I

want Armour. That's why she has referred me to the Endo I'm seeing on Monday.

Meanwhile, I'm more lethargic than I've ever been in my entire 51 years, my

temp. continues to run around 96.5 when I wake up in the morning.

I'll ask about having my Ferritin level checked. I realize that getting the

Armour prescribed is just a step in the process, but I need to start somewhere.

I'm hoping to get help from this group over the next few months to arrive at

the right dose for me. Hopefully my Dr. will prescribe to my needs. The

positive side is that my HMO normally provided 100 days of meds at a time, and

prescriptions for a year of refills. I figure if I need more than they

prescribe,

that time is on my side to convince them to increase.

Judy

<< Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 23:20:16 -0700

Subject: Re: Have Test Results and Going to See Endo on Monday -- Need Advice

Please

Hi Judy, I'm sorry but I've been dealing with a brother who's had a heart

attack recently, and I usually always have plenty to say about labs. (big

grin).

:-)

If my labs were like yours, I'd be hypo without a doubt. I have found that I

can ignore TSH as long as my FT3 and FT4 are in the upper ranges. I don't

know anything about the meds you are taking, but if what you're taking isn't he

lping, then there are other things that can be contributing to your feeling

badly.

Ferritin is one (iron storage) which I've had problems with before (years

ago). I'm getting ready to have mine tested. That need to be no less than

50-60

and stay in that range. Your dr can test this for you if they will, if not,

you can get it done if you're in the states through healthcheckUSA.com. It's

about 18.00 for Ferritin testing.

Depending on your age, female hormones can have an effect on how you feel, as

you've read on here. I've not addressed any of those things although I plan

to persue it shortly with my gyno on my next visit. Somebody else will have

info on that.

Your dr's insistance on not prescribing Armour and trying everything else

does not surprise me. Dr's are told all kinds of things about Armour. A lot of

which is just flat untruths. That is how so many of us have come to have to

depend on self medicating. I took that plunge back in April of this year when

I felt bad, had too many symptoms of hypoT and couldn't get a prescription for

anything. I was very disappointed, but my Dr is a TSH dr, and he discounted

symptoms which go hand in hand with the proper testing, as you yourself will

find.

I read lots of posts on the net, in email groups and at about.com where

people are told that it's common to take at least a yr or better, to get the

levels

right. I find that unacceptable for me. I took to Armour like a duck takes

to water, and I just refuse to go back to anything else. It's made the

difference in my life that I've longed for. I feel better than I did when I was

a

teenager? Go figure? BTW, my problems started when I was 15.

Getting a dr to merely prescribe Armour is half the battle, but I sense a

lot of people still have problems, then are told that they can't take it, too

much T3, blah, blah, which means your dr knows nothing about how it should be

dosed or the other things that can cause you to not be able to feel better on

Armour. Once those issues are addressed, the problems will subside and you'll

feel better than you have in years. If you find that you're problems aren't

going to be addressed, I'd suggest going to www.brodabarnes.org and pay the

15.00 for a list of dr;s in your area who knows about his work in

hypothyroidism. There are a lot of dr's out there, I've chosen to stop actively

looking for

one at this point. I've found what works for me and intend to continue this

path I've chosen. One day when my finances are better, and I stumble onto

somebody who's got the knowledge about testing for hypoT and I can afford them,

I'll be happy, but in the meantime, I refuse to be sick and unable to function.

Every dr I've found thus far is just so misinformed, and I just refuse to

support their lavish lifestyles which don't help me in the least. My motto is,

hit them where they live (in the wallet). lol.

If you've not read HypoThyroidism, The Unsuspected Ilness, by Broda ,

it's a keeper. Definately worth ordering and it's not expensive.

SandyE~Houston

Have Test Results and Going to See Endo

on Monday -- Need Advice Please

I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages posted on

the

group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in response to

mine.

I got some great responses 2 weeks ago when asking what thyroid tests to

ask

for. I was able to get Free T3, Free T4, and Thyroid Antibodies, in

addition

to TSH.

I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2 months. I

feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I started

it.

My Primary Care Physician consulted with an Endo who wanted her to double

the

Levothroid, rather than give me the Armour I've been asking for since the

beginning. I refused more of the Levothroid, and asked for Armour. I'm

seeing an

Endo (not the one my Dr. talked to) on Monday morning. I plan to ask for

Armour, and will take documentation from the group files and other research

I've

done. It's my intent to leave the appointment with a prescription for

Armour, so

I hope that's the case.

If so, what kind of dosage should I expect is reasonable to get to start?

Also, how soon should I expect to adjust the dosage? And, how soon should I

expect the Dr. to repeat the labs -- and will I want the same ones done as

this

time?

My test results are:

TSH 4.2 uIU/mL Normal Range: 0.2 - 5.5

Free T4(Analog) 1.1 ng/dL Normal Range: 0.8 - 1.7

Anti TPO 153 IU/mL Normal Range: less than 35

Free T3 Nondial 213 pg/dL 230 - 420

Thanks, Judy

>>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sandy. I do know I'm hypo. I was diagnosed 4 months ago, and that's

why I've been taking the Levothroid. The tests results I posted are frm Sept.

29th, after 3-1/2 months on the .025 mg. per day.

I am menopausal and have used natural progesterone cream with good results

for more than a year for that balance; in addition to supplementing with

multivitamins, B-complex, Natural Vit. E, Vit. C, and Calcium. My doses were

those

recommended for menopause; and a couple of months ago a added some extra B6 and

Selenium. There was a list of supplements recommended by Dr. Aren posted on

another Thyroid group, and what I was taking covered all but those.

Right now, my Dr. wants to double the Levothroid (generic Synthroid); and I

want Armour. That's why she has referred me to the Endo I'm seeing on Monday.

Meanwhile, I'm more lethargic than I've ever been in my entire 51 years, my

temp. continues to run around 96.5 when I wake up in the morning.

I'll ask about having my Ferritin level checked. I realize that getting the

Armour prescribed is just a step in the process, but I need to start somewhere.

I'm hoping to get help from this group over the next few months to arrive at

the right dose for me. Hopefully my Dr. will prescribe to my needs. The

positive side is that my HMO normally provided 100 days of meds at a time, and

prescriptions for a year of refills. I figure if I need more than they

prescribe,

that time is on my side to convince them to increase.

Judy

<< Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 23:20:16 -0700

Subject: Re: Have Test Results and Going to See Endo on Monday -- Need Advice

Please

Hi Judy, I'm sorry but I've been dealing with a brother who's had a heart

attack recently, and I usually always have plenty to say about labs. (big

grin).

:-)

If my labs were like yours, I'd be hypo without a doubt. I have found that I

can ignore TSH as long as my FT3 and FT4 are in the upper ranges. I don't

know anything about the meds you are taking, but if what you're taking isn't he

lping, then there are other things that can be contributing to your feeling

badly.

Ferritin is one (iron storage) which I've had problems with before (years

ago). I'm getting ready to have mine tested. That need to be no less than

50-60

and stay in that range. Your dr can test this for you if they will, if not,

you can get it done if you're in the states through healthcheckUSA.com. It's

about 18.00 for Ferritin testing.

Depending on your age, female hormones can have an effect on how you feel, as

you've read on here. I've not addressed any of those things although I plan

to persue it shortly with my gyno on my next visit. Somebody else will have

info on that.

Your dr's insistance on not prescribing Armour and trying everything else

does not surprise me. Dr's are told all kinds of things about Armour. A lot of

which is just flat untruths. That is how so many of us have come to have to

depend on self medicating. I took that plunge back in April of this year when

I felt bad, had too many symptoms of hypoT and couldn't get a prescription for

anything. I was very disappointed, but my Dr is a TSH dr, and he discounted

symptoms which go hand in hand with the proper testing, as you yourself will

find.

I read lots of posts on the net, in email groups and at about.com where

people are told that it's common to take at least a yr or better, to get the

levels

right. I find that unacceptable for me. I took to Armour like a duck takes

to water, and I just refuse to go back to anything else. It's made the

difference in my life that I've longed for. I feel better than I did when I was

a

teenager? Go figure? BTW, my problems started when I was 15.

Getting a dr to merely prescribe Armour is half the battle, but I sense a

lot of people still have problems, then are told that they can't take it, too

much T3, blah, blah, which means your dr knows nothing about how it should be

dosed or the other things that can cause you to not be able to feel better on

Armour. Once those issues are addressed, the problems will subside and you'll

feel better than you have in years. If you find that you're problems aren't

going to be addressed, I'd suggest going to www.brodabarnes.org and pay the

15.00 for a list of dr;s in your area who knows about his work in

hypothyroidism. There are a lot of dr's out there, I've chosen to stop actively

looking for

one at this point. I've found what works for me and intend to continue this

path I've chosen. One day when my finances are better, and I stumble onto

somebody who's got the knowledge about testing for hypoT and I can afford them,

I'll be happy, but in the meantime, I refuse to be sick and unable to function.

Every dr I've found thus far is just so misinformed, and I just refuse to

support their lavish lifestyles which don't help me in the least. My motto is,

hit them where they live (in the wallet). lol.

If you've not read HypoThyroidism, The Unsuspected Ilness, by Broda ,

it's a keeper. Definately worth ordering and it's not expensive.

SandyE~Houston

Have Test Results and Going to See Endo

on Monday -- Need Advice Please

I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages posted on

the

group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in response to

mine.

I got some great responses 2 weeks ago when asking what thyroid tests to

ask

for. I was able to get Free T3, Free T4, and Thyroid Antibodies, in

addition

to TSH.

I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2 months. I

feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I started

it.

My Primary Care Physician consulted with an Endo who wanted her to double

the

Levothroid, rather than give me the Armour I've been asking for since the

beginning. I refused more of the Levothroid, and asked for Armour. I'm

seeing an

Endo (not the one my Dr. talked to) on Monday morning. I plan to ask for

Armour, and will take documentation from the group files and other research

I've

done. It's my intent to leave the appointment with a prescription for

Armour, so

I hope that's the case.

If so, what kind of dosage should I expect is reasonable to get to start?

Also, how soon should I expect to adjust the dosage? And, how soon should I

expect the Dr. to repeat the labs -- and will I want the same ones done as

this

time?

My test results are:

TSH 4.2 uIU/mL Normal Range: 0.2 - 5.5

Free T4(Analog) 1.1 ng/dL Normal Range: 0.8 - 1.7

Anti TPO 153 IU/mL Normal Range: less than 35

Free T3 Nondial 213 pg/dL 230 - 420

Thanks, Judy

>>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for getting back to me Janey. I did check your posts since Friday

again; and found no response to mine under any subject, but I guess there are a

lot of similar posts at times.

I was really hoping that my Dr. would just prescribe the Armour and not send

me to an Endo. I had a bad experience with one a year and a half ago. My gyno

sent me as I was having hypo symptoms -- low temp. lethargy, inability to lose

weight even on low carbs for a couple of years. That Endo refused to test me,

and said I had no thyroid problem, said to join a low fat weight loss group

at the HMO, and gave me a diuretic pill that gave me horrible side effects

within days -- even bleeding, though I'd been post-menopausal for well over a

year. I never went back to that one! I was only diagnosed hypo when my Primary

Care Physician did a bunch of tests after I went through an infection after some

foot reconstructive surgery. My body had rejected a screw they planned to

leave in. Otherwise, I may still have not been diagnosed.

I'm hoping the Endo I see tomorrow listens. I've read the articles in the

FILES, and done more research myself. I have some printed out to take with me.

I want my energy and a feeling of good health back -- and I just don't

believe that's too much to ask for. I believe my health is on the line tomorrow.

Between my anxiety over this and what I believe to be the wrong meds for me; I'm

feeling worse each day.

Judy

In a message dated 10/9/04 22:15:16, NaturalThyroidHormones

writes:

<< Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 04:36:37 -0000

Subject: Re: Have Test Results and Going to See Endo on Monday -- Need Advice

Please

Hi Judy. I thought I answered your post. I may have changed the

subject line. Anyway, we are glad you posted again. It's never

anything personal--it's just the drawback of a large, active

group. ( And I see that Sandy in Houston has given you a great

answer!!

My two bits: Unfortunately, going to an Endo is the absolute worst

doc to go to for good thyroid care, or even to get Armour. So don't

be surprised if you meet extreme resistance, which I will hope isn't

the case. And...even if you do get that Endo to prescribe your

Armour, your next problem will be being allowed ENOUGH Armour.

Endo's are lab-obsessed, Judy. And especially TSH. And when you

start on Armour, the TSH HAS TO BE IGNORED. But Endos will see it

going below one, and they freak out, saying you are hyper when you

are not. Remember that, Judy. My TSH last March was .009 on an

optimal dose of Armour (when my free T3 was over the top), and I

have even increased since then. I feel great.

Generally, one grain is a good amount to start on. But...after about

3 weeks, you need to start raising a bit at a time--I've seen folks

do great going up 1/2 grain at a time. Otherwise, your hypo will

return with a vengeance after those 3 weeks or so on the starting

dose.

Once you get up to 2 grains or more, it's very wise to start holding

the doses for 4-5 weeks or so to see the effect of the T4 conversion

to T3. T3 is immediate, but T4 takes time to build. By the way, I

was on .125 Synthroid (Levoxyl) and am now at 3 1/4 grains Armour.

When you are using labs, your goal is to get that free T3 at the top

of the range. And even better, Judy, once you get up to 2 grains or

more, is to start dosing by symptoms, not labs, if you can get away

with it.

Keep us informed. A wonderful life with energy and stamina and great

health is ahead of you!! And if you haven't read the articles in the

FILES, I hope you will tomorrow before your appointment. There's a

good one at the beginning called Dear Doctor, and another on

TSH...plus many more. Being educated for that appointment is your

best weapon!

Janie ) in Colorado

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages

posted on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in

response to

> mine.

>

>>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for getting back to me Janey. I did check your posts since Friday

again; and found no response to mine under any subject, but I guess there are a

lot of similar posts at times.

I was really hoping that my Dr. would just prescribe the Armour and not send

me to an Endo. I had a bad experience with one a year and a half ago. My gyno

sent me as I was having hypo symptoms -- low temp. lethargy, inability to lose

weight even on low carbs for a couple of years. That Endo refused to test me,

and said I had no thyroid problem, said to join a low fat weight loss group

at the HMO, and gave me a diuretic pill that gave me horrible side effects

within days -- even bleeding, though I'd been post-menopausal for well over a

year. I never went back to that one! I was only diagnosed hypo when my Primary

Care Physician did a bunch of tests after I went through an infection after some

foot reconstructive surgery. My body had rejected a screw they planned to

leave in. Otherwise, I may still have not been diagnosed.

I'm hoping the Endo I see tomorrow listens. I've read the articles in the

FILES, and done more research myself. I have some printed out to take with me.

I want my energy and a feeling of good health back -- and I just don't

believe that's too much to ask for. I believe my health is on the line tomorrow.

Between my anxiety over this and what I believe to be the wrong meds for me; I'm

feeling worse each day.

Judy

In a message dated 10/9/04 22:15:16, NaturalThyroidHormones

writes:

<< Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 04:36:37 -0000

Subject: Re: Have Test Results and Going to See Endo on Monday -- Need Advice

Please

Hi Judy. I thought I answered your post. I may have changed the

subject line. Anyway, we are glad you posted again. It's never

anything personal--it's just the drawback of a large, active

group. ( And I see that Sandy in Houston has given you a great

answer!!

My two bits: Unfortunately, going to an Endo is the absolute worst

doc to go to for good thyroid care, or even to get Armour. So don't

be surprised if you meet extreme resistance, which I will hope isn't

the case. And...even if you do get that Endo to prescribe your

Armour, your next problem will be being allowed ENOUGH Armour.

Endo's are lab-obsessed, Judy. And especially TSH. And when you

start on Armour, the TSH HAS TO BE IGNORED. But Endos will see it

going below one, and they freak out, saying you are hyper when you

are not. Remember that, Judy. My TSH last March was .009 on an

optimal dose of Armour (when my free T3 was over the top), and I

have even increased since then. I feel great.

Generally, one grain is a good amount to start on. But...after about

3 weeks, you need to start raising a bit at a time--I've seen folks

do great going up 1/2 grain at a time. Otherwise, your hypo will

return with a vengeance after those 3 weeks or so on the starting

dose.

Once you get up to 2 grains or more, it's very wise to start holding

the doses for 4-5 weeks or so to see the effect of the T4 conversion

to T3. T3 is immediate, but T4 takes time to build. By the way, I

was on .125 Synthroid (Levoxyl) and am now at 3 1/4 grains Armour.

When you are using labs, your goal is to get that free T3 at the top

of the range. And even better, Judy, once you get up to 2 grains or

more, is to start dosing by symptoms, not labs, if you can get away

with it.

Keep us informed. A wonderful life with energy and stamina and great

health is ahead of you!! And if you haven't read the articles in the

FILES, I hope you will tomorrow before your appointment. There's a

good one at the beginning called Dear Doctor, and another on

TSH...plus many more. Being educated for that appointment is your

best weapon!

Janie ) in Colorado

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages

posted on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in

response to

> mine.

>

>>

[Guest guest]

I guess I'll have to look into adrenals as a possible issue. I've noticed

reading on this group that this is also an issue for many.

I do know from my tests that my Free T3 is low, so I don't want to delay

getting T3 for that -- I wouldn't expect just continuing with the T4 medication

I'm taking will help that. Or do you think adrenal issues would affect the Free

T3 test results?

Judy

In a message dated 10/10/04 06:52:48, NaturalThyroidHormones

writes:

<< Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 22:25:40 -0700

Subject: Re: Have Test Results and Going to See Endo on Monday -- Need Advice

Please

>

> I guess I need to ask again. There have been like 130 messages posted

> on the

> group since I posted my plea on Friday, and not a single one in response to

> mine.

>

> I got some great responses 2 weeks ago when asking what thyroid tests

> to ask

> for. I was able to get Free T3, Free T4, and Thyroid Antibodies, in

> addition

> to TSH.

>

> I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2 months. I

> feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I

> started it.

hi judy,

in a situation where your adrenal output is low, taking thyroid meds

for your condition will only make you feel worse. you should get your

adrenals tested to see where they're at.

conversely, a switch to armour might make a difference, if let's say,

levothroid is not the med for you. but not if your adrenals are

low--armour would make you feel worse as well.

there are a few signs of low adrenals. many of the symptoms overlap a

hypothyroid but a clue is when you find yourself having very little

energy in the mornings and afternoons and more in the evenings,

sometimes causing sleep disorders.

best,

baron

>>

[Guest guest]

I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2

months. I

feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I

started it.

_________________

I must have missed your post. 0.025 of Levothroid is a very low dose

and only a starting dose and I don't understand why it was not

raised in two weeks after you started.

This is what I think is happening to you. For many people low dose

thyroid therapy causes them to become more hypothyroid. The reason

is thought to be that thyroid therapy causes over suppression of

TSH. TSH or thyroid stimulating hormone is put out by the pituitary

to tell the thyroid how much and when to put out hormone. Also, many

people with thyroid disease that has been around a while develope

pituitary dysfunction.

This is how it is " supposed " to work: The thyroid puts out roughly 4-

1/2 to 5 grains of Armour equivelent a day or about 333 to 370 mcg

equivelent a day of Levothroid. In theory, if you take low dose

thryoid hormone, your pituitary should sense that dose and tell you

thyroid to make up the difference between what you are taking and

what your body needs. So, if you took 100 mcg of Levothroid, you

pituitary should sense that and put out enough TSH to tell your

thyroid to makde 233 to 270 so that you end up the the daily total

you need for health. In reality, this does not happen for countless

thyroid patients. Small doses of thyroid overly suppress TSH and the

result is that your thyroid is not told to make enough hormone for

you to have what you need. The consequence of this is that on low

dose thyroid therapy people often become more hypothyroid than they

were before treatment. The solution is to get the dose up high

enough to overcome it.

The problem today, is that doctors have dorpped thyroid replacement

doses to 1/3 of what they were prior to the TSH test, which came

about around 1975. They look at these overly low TSH test numbers

and give the patient insufficient thyroid replacement based on that.

For more on this, read Derry's article:

http://thyroid.about.com/library/derry/bl11.htm

This stingyness of doctors with thyroid replacement makes no sense

since you cannot overdose on any thyroid dose less than about 4-1/2

to 5 grains of Armour or 333 to 370 of Levothroid. It is because the

pituitary will drop TSH production on any dose less than your body

needs to tell your thyroid to only make what is needed to keep the

dose at a healthy range. So, doctors have a lot of room to increase

doses untill the patient feels good. But, they would make a lot less

money by making you healthy.

You can have problems with low dose thyroid therapy if you have low

adrenal output or anemia or other health issues that interfere with

you being able to use thryoid hormone. Adrenal fagigue or

hypofunction is very common in long standing hypothyroidism. The

adrenal size and output is controlled by circulating thyroid

hormone, so if thyroid is low the adrenals become small and weak and

the minute you take thyroid replacment, you have problems with the

adrenals because more is being demanded of them. In adrenal fatigue

you can get symptoms of thyroid overdose on tiny amounts of thyroid.

because adrenal output needs to be in balance with thyroid.

Thyroid doses in the past were commonly 3 to 5 grains of Armour and

300 to 400 mcg of Levothroid, with some being able to get by on 200

to 300 mcg. The above Armour doses have been used for 83 years

before the TSH test. These doses were adjusted by how the patient

felt and by their symptoms and physical characteristics. Dr. Derry

has written that most people do not start to feel well untill they

get up to 3 grains.

Doses should be adjusted up every two weeks in the beginning and

then as you get closer to the upper range, say 3 grains or 200 mcg

of Levothroid, you need to slow down increases to about once every 4

weeks. This is to make sure T4 stabilizes in the blood and you don't

overshoot and go to high too quickly. Typical Armour dose raises are

15 to 30 mg or 1/4 to 1/2 of a grain. Use Dr. Rind's page to adjust

your dose up and to determine success of therapy. Keep a record of

symptoms and changes. Dr. Rind's page here

http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp is how it was done for more than

50 years. Body temperature is a measure of metabolic activity and is

controlled by thryoid and adrenal.

If you have troubles or over sensitivity to low doses of thyroid,

then you probably have low adrenal issues or anemia or some other

thing complicating it. In this case dose raises must be made in very

tiny increments and wait longer before a raise - up to a month. This

is to give your body or the adrenals time to adjust and recouperate

from each raise.

You may also be having a problem with conversion of your Levothroid

to the other 6 thyroid hormones that the thyroid makes. Levothroid

or T4 only meds are quite inactive metabolically and require that

tissues in the body convert them to T3 and T2 for energy. The

healthy thyroid makes about 12% T3 and about 5% of the other

hormones. Many people have trouble with converting Levothroid to the

other hormones in the tissues of the body and different organs in

the body are more or less good at this. Some lack enzyme pathways to

do it efficiently. So, Armour gives all the hormones you need in

approximately the right proportion. T3 is a bit higher in ARmour,

which is a good thing for many people.

This is just my opinion, but it is very common for people to think

that endocrinologists are somehow much bette. In fact, they tend to

be the most rabid numbers people and the most staunch Levothroid or

Synthoroid prescribers. They are the most strident forcers of

patients into test ranges pegged right in the middle no matter what

their complaints. They have been trained in med school by the big

drug manufacturers of synthetic T4 only thyroid replacement. So, if

you get one that does what you want, I think you will be lucky

indeed. The best doctors tend to be the alternative specialists like

D.O.s and more holistic MDs. They are more open minded.

It would be better to go to http://thyroid.about.com/ and check out

the top doc list and read it carfully to make sure it says the docs

prescribe armour. There is adifference between a doctor that has a

good bedside manner and seems caring and one that will give you the

medicine that you need and want and at the proper dose for health.

Other sites to look for doctors are the Armour site:

http://www.armourthyroid.com/ and the 's Thyroid site:

http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/ Some of these only prescribe T3, so

you will have to weed them out.

Tish

[Guest guest]

I've been taking .025 mg per day of Levothroid for the past 3-1/2

months. I

feel terrible -- in fact I think my symptoms have increased since I

started it.

_________________

I must have missed your post. 0.025 of Levothroid is a very low dose

and only a starting dose and I don't understand why it was not

raised in two weeks after you started.

This is what I think is happening to you. For many people low dose

thyroid therapy causes them to become more hypothyroid. The reason

is thought to be that thyroid therapy causes over suppression of

TSH. TSH or thyroid stimulating hormone is put out by the pituitary

to tell the thyroid how much and when to put out hormone. Also, many

people with thyroid disease that has been around a while develope

pituitary dysfunction.

This is how it is " supposed " to work: The thyroid puts out roughly 4-

1/2 to 5 grains of Armour equivelent a day or about 333 to 370 mcg

equivelent a day of Levothroid. In theory, if you take low dose

thryoid hormone, your pituitary should sense that dose and tell you

thyroid to make up the difference between what you are taking and

what your body needs. So, if you took 100 mcg of Levothroid, you

pituitary should sense that and put out enough TSH to tell your

thyroid to makde 233 to 270 so that you end up the the daily total

you need for health. In reality, this does not happen for countless

thyroid patients. Small doses of thyroid overly suppress TSH and the

result is that your thyroid is not told to make enough hormone for

you to have what you need. The consequence of this is that on low

dose thyroid therapy people often become more hypothyroid than they

were before treatment. The solution is to get the dose up high

enough to overcome it.

The problem today, is that doctors have dorpped thyroid replacement

doses to 1/3 of what they were prior to the TSH test, which came

about around 1975. They look at these overly low TSH test numbers

and give the patient insufficient thyroid replacement based on that.

For more on this, read Derry's article:

http://thyroid.about.com/library/derry/bl11.htm

This stingyness of doctors with thyroid replacement makes no sense

since you cannot overdose on any thyroid dose less than about 4-1/2

to 5 grains of Armour or 333 to 370 of Levothroid. It is because the

pituitary will drop TSH production on any dose less than your body

needs to tell your thyroid to only make what is needed to keep the

dose at a healthy range. So, doctors have a lot of room to increase

doses untill the patient feels good. But, they would make a lot less

money by making you healthy.

You can have problems with low dose thyroid therapy if you have low

adrenal output or anemia or other health issues that interfere with

you being able to use thryoid hormone. Adrenal fagigue or

hypofunction is very common in long standing hypothyroidism. The

adrenal size and output is controlled by circulating thyroid

hormone, so if thyroid is low the adrenals become small and weak and

the minute you take thyroid replacment, you have problems with the

adrenals because more is being demanded of them. In adrenal fatigue

you can get symptoms of thyroid overdose on tiny amounts of thyroid.

because adrenal output needs to be in balance with thyroid.

Thyroid doses in the past were commonly 3 to 5 grains of Armour and

300 to 400 mcg of Levothroid, with some being able to get by on 200

to 300 mcg. The above Armour doses have been used for 83 years

before the TSH test. These doses were adjusted by how the patient

felt and by their symptoms and physical characteristics. Dr. Derry

has written that most people do not start to feel well untill they

get up to 3 grains.

Doses should be adjusted up every two weeks in the beginning and

then as you get closer to the upper range, say 3 grains or 200 mcg

of Levothroid, you need to slow down increases to about once every 4

weeks. This is to make sure T4 stabilizes in the blood and you don't

overshoot and go to high too quickly. Typical Armour dose raises are

15 to 30 mg or 1/4 to 1/2 of a grain. Use Dr. Rind's page to adjust

your dose up and to determine success of therapy. Keep a record of

symptoms and changes. Dr. Rind's page here

http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp is how it was done for more than

50 years. Body temperature is a measure of metabolic activity and is

controlled by thryoid and adrenal.

If you have troubles or over sensitivity to low doses of thyroid,

then you probably have low adrenal issues or anemia or some other

thing complicating it. In this case dose raises must be made in very

tiny increments and wait longer before a raise - up to a month. This

is to give your body or the adrenals time to adjust and recouperate

from each raise.

You may also be having a problem with conversion of your Levothroid

to the other 6 thyroid hormones that the thyroid makes. Levothroid

or T4 only meds are quite inactive metabolically and require that

tissues in the body convert them to T3 and T2 for energy. The

healthy thyroid makes about 12% T3 and about 5% of the other

hormones. Many people have trouble with converting Levothroid to the

other hormones in the tissues of the body and different organs in

the body are more or less good at this. Some lack enzyme pathways to

do it efficiently. So, Armour gives all the hormones you need in

approximately the right proportion. T3 is a bit higher in ARmour,

which is a good thing for many people.

This is just my opinion, but it is very common for people to think

that endocrinologists are somehow much bette. In fact, they tend to

be the most rabid numbers people and the most staunch Levothroid or

Synthoroid prescribers. They are the most strident forcers of

patients into test ranges pegged right in the middle no matter what

their complaints. They have been trained in med school by the big

drug manufacturers of synthetic T4 only thyroid replacement. So, if

you get one that does what you want, I think you will be lucky

indeed. The best doctors tend to be the alternative specialists like

D.O.s and more holistic MDs. They are more open minded.

It would be better to go to http://thyroid.about.com/ and check out

the top doc list and read it carfully to make sure it says the docs

prescribe armour. There is adifference between a doctor that has a

good bedside manner and seems caring and one that will give you the

medicine that you need and want and at the proper dose for health.

Other sites to look for doctors are the Armour site:

http://www.armourthyroid.com/ and the 's Thyroid site:

http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/ Some of these only prescribe T3, so

you will have to weed them out.

Tish

[Guest guest]

>

> I guess I'll have to look into adrenals as a possible issue. I've noticed

> reading on this group that this is also an issue for many.

>

> I do know from my tests that my Free T3 is low, so I don't want to delay

> getting T3 for that -- I wouldn't expect just continuing with the T4

> medication

> I'm taking will help that. Or do you think adrenal issues would

> affect the Free

> T3 test results?

>

> Judy

well i don't think there's any harm in raising your meds to increase

your t3, and then falling back to your current dose if you get worse

because of an adrenal or ferritin shortage. but those are tests you do

have to take because they are common problems with hypothyroid patients

like us. doctors in general don't seem to know this. or believe it if

you bring it up.

i do not think adrenal issues will affect the free t3 numbers, but

someone can correct me if i am wrong. i just have not heard of that.

i think the only thing affecting t3 numbers would be your intake of

meds and your conversion ability.

best,

baron

[Guest guest]

>> Between my anxiety over this and what I believe to be the wrong

meds for me; I'm feeling worse each day.

Judy, even if tomorrow's Endo doesn't work out, there is always the

option of self-treating, and many folks here can help you with that.

A new day WILL come for you, one way or the other! Hang in there

kiddo!

Janie

[Guest guest]

>> Between my anxiety over this and what I believe to be the wrong

meds for me; I'm feeling worse each day.

Judy, even if tomorrow's Endo doesn't work out, there is always the

option of self-treating, and many folks here can help you with that.

A new day WILL come for you, one way or the other! Hang in there

kiddo!

Janie

[Guest guest]

> I guess I'll have to look into adrenals as a possible issue. I've

noticed reading on this group that this is also an issue for many.

Judy, don't get bogged down yet concerning adrenals. There are some

here who definitely need it, but there are many others who have

never needed it and do fine on Armour without it. Let's first see

how your Endo does tomorrow.

Janie

[Guest guest]

>

>

>> I guess I'll have to look into adrenals as a possible issue. I've

> noticed reading on this group that this is also an issue for many.

>

> Judy, don't get bogged down yet concerning adrenals. There are some

> here who definitely need it, but there are many others who have

> never needed it and do fine on Armour without it. Let's first see

> how your Endo does tomorrow.

>

> Janie

that's true. treat the thyroid first. if you feel worse or don't seem

to have luck, look at the other things. if you have a doctor who'll

test them, do test them, though. it won't hurt and may expedite your

treatment.

b

[Guest guest]

>

>

>> I guess I'll have to look into adrenals as a possible issue. I've

> noticed reading on this group that this is also an issue for many.

>

> Judy, don't get bogged down yet concerning adrenals. There are some

> here who definitely need it, but there are many others who have

> never needed it and do fine on Armour without it. Let's first see

> how your Endo does tomorrow.

>

> Janie

that's true. treat the thyroid first. if you feel worse or don't seem

to have luck, look at the other things. if you have a doctor who'll

test them, do test them, though. it won't hurt and may expedite your

treatment.

b

[Guest guest]

So is cortisol the only test to see if adrenals are shot? The am

one was the only one done on me.

> >

> >

> >> I guess I'll have to look into adrenals as a possible issue.

I've

> > noticed reading on this group that this is also an issue for

many.

> >

> > Judy, don't get bogged down yet concerning adrenals. There are

some

> > here who definitely need it, but there are many others who have

> > never needed it and do fine on Armour without it. Let's first

see

> > how your Endo does tomorrow.

> >

> > Janie

>

> that's true. treat the thyroid first. if you feel worse or don't

seem

> to have luck, look at the other things. if you have a doctor

who'll

> test them, do test them, though. it won't hurt and may expedite

your

> treatment.

>

> b