When?

[Guest guest]

OK, all you experienced grads! I have a question.

When does your new body/capacity to do things/etc. stop being the center of

your existence? When does it stop being the most important thing about you?

I'm not talking about other people, either. I'm talking about when *I* will

get so used to this that I won't need to talk about it all the time?

Last night my husband's staff came over here for their annual Christmas

party. All the gals had cute Christmas sweaters on. I don't have one anymore,

as I did have the most beautiful one in the whole world and it is now, of

course, WAY too big. So I was admiring their sweaters and whining about the

fact that I don't have one, etc. My husband pulled me aside and asked me to

stop talking about my weight loss -- that I was becoming vain and boring and

that all I did was talk about myself and that people are tired of hearing

about it but they have to be nice to the boss's wife so they put up with it.

We didn't deal with it then, but I realized that he is right, at least in

part -- I do talk about it all the time. Often it is in response to someone

else's comment, but sometimes a little thing like seeing a roomful of

Christmas sweaters will get me started! I imagine it is boring to some

people! So, how do I stop, and when will it become a less interesting subject

to me?

My husband has been really supportive from day one about all of this (though

he thinks I am too thin now), so this must really have been bothering him for

him to say something.

Anyone had experience with this kind of thing?

Thanks.

hugs,

Ann

[Guest guest]

Ann,

I have the same experiences all the time. I am a very vain person and very

verbal and admittedly very self absorbed since the surgery and the weight

loss. Lately I've tried not to talk about but even when I don't bring it up

someone else will. All I need is a little stimulus and BOOM! I'm running my

mouth about the surgery.

Even when I try to keep it quiet it doesn't work. It didn't help any attempts

at anonymity when my wife and I had our pictures featured on the front page

of the New York Times (October 12). My boss introduces me as the guy who lost

220 pounds but almost died in the process (true). My brother tells everyone

when we are together that I had surgery to lose weight (he's very proud of

me). I make cracks about it and that leads to many questions.

It is still so new. I am not used to the new me yet. I daily find out things

about myself and what I can do, and I'm more than 2 years postop. I still run

into people who have not seen me since the surgery and I love to see the

" deer caught in the headlights stare " when I ask them if they know who I am.

You asked " When does your new body/capacity to do things/etc. stop being the

center of

your existence? When does it stop being the most important thing about you? "

Well, in two years it has not stopped being the most important thing about me

and I'm not sure I want it to stop. I like the attention and often being the

center of the discussion. I am also very proud of what I have accomplished

and the fact that I almost died after the WLS (ruptured artery) and again

after the hernia repair and tummy tuck last year (blood coagulation

problems). I want to shout it from the rooftops that I am normal and that I

feel and look great! Also, the more we talk about WLS the more acceptable it

will become and the more people who need it will get it.

Hope this helps.

BobA

Biliopancreatic Diversion (A Very Distal RNY) on 10/8/98

220 Pounds Gone Forever, But Not Forgotten!

[Guest guest]

Dear Ann,

I was going to write in and tell you the exact same thing Bob did, but then I

read Bob's e-mail and realized he said it for me! Amazing how we all feel

alike.

A lot of people are uncomfortable with the new us. They are used to the

wallflower us, fading into the background, never having anything that really

stands out. We tried to make ourselves invisible because we felt invisible.

We tried to play up our spouses, because we didn't want attention on

ourselves (our fat). So now the roles are reversed. We want to be in the

limelight awhile, we want some attention. We aren't necessarily even vain,

but we have been hiding so long, we want our turn! We're like the guy stuck

in the desert 3 days with no water, who comes upon a river. I think that our

spouses, friends and family are sometimes uncomfortable with that. It

changes the dynamics of everything they've known about their relationships

with us. It makes them experience new things, and that is scary. Sometimes

they say cruel things just because of their fear and discomfort. They might

not actually mean the things they say.

IMHO, flaunt it for as long as it feels good to you. I think your husband is

probably just nervous and confused by the new you. If he and his coworkers

are bored and think you are vain, that is no problem, but if they hinder your

development psychologically, that is a problem. So they should just put up

with it while it lasts, because they have nothing to lose, whereas you do.

All of my family and friends have to put up with me, not to mention my

long-suffering hubby who has always had to put up with my self centered,

extroverted, no nonsense, blunt, no tact, screwed up personality. Even if he

thought I was talking about Me too much, he would never say it. Can you

imagine experiencing the WRAITH of Felicia? Neither can he Hahaha!

If you are really, truly getting bad vibes talking about it all the time to

everyone in RL, just come here and talk to us You know we love to hear

it...gives me good ideas, anyway! Haha! And all of the groups with

pre-ops...oh, boy, they eat that stuff up (don'tcha lurkers???). I know when

I was a pre-op I wanted to hear EVERYTHING, see EVERY picture, hear EVERY

story! You could get so much praise you start wearing a crown

I still maintain flaunt it while ya got is, sis!

Love,

Felicia

Lap RNY 6/2/99 Dr. Champion. 5'8 " @ 250+ (now: 5'9 " @ 132 lbs.)

http://hometown.aol.com/felicialee/myhomepage/index.html

In a message dated 12/18/00 12:49:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,

raltman813@... writes:

<< I have the same experiences all the time. I am a very vain person and very

verbal and admittedly very self absorbed since the surgery and the weight

loss. Lately I've tried not to talk about but even when I don't bring it up

someone else will. All I need is a little stimulus and BOOM! I'm running my

mouth about the surgery.

Even when I try to keep it quiet it doesn't work. It didn't help any

attempts

at anonymity when my wife and I had our pictures featured on the front page

of the New York Times (October 12). My boss introduces me as the guy who

lost

220 pounds but almost died in the process (true). My brother tells everyone

when we are together that I had surgery to lose weight (he's very proud of

me). I make cracks about it and that leads to many questions.

It is still so new. I am not used to the new me yet. I daily find out things

about myself and what I can do, and I'm more than 2 years postop. I still

run

into people who have not seen me since the surgery and I love to see the

" deer caught in the headlights stare " when I ask them if they know who I am.

You asked " When does your new body/capacity to do things/etc. stop being the

center of

your existence? When does it stop being the most important thing about you? "

Well, in two years it has not stopped being the most important thing about

me

and I'm not sure I want it to stop. I like the attention and often being the

center of the discussion. I am also very proud of what I have accomplished

and the fact that I almost died after the WLS (ruptured artery) and again

after the hernia repair and tummy tuck last year (blood coagulation

problems). I want to shout it from the rooftops that I am normal and that I

feel and look great! Also, the more we talk about WLS the more acceptable it

will become and the more people who need it will get it.

Hope this helps.

BobA

Biliopancreatic Diversion (A Very Distal RNY) on 10/8/98

220 Pounds Gone Forever, But Not Forgotten!

>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ann,

So many of your posts are powerfully reflective and introspective. I enjoy

them enormously.

This particular one prompts a reply because it goes deftly to the heart of a

subject I have been mulling for some time. As a " grad " and a therapist I am

concern about issues like this which play out over time post op. It's a

concern I hope to incorporate in a presentation to a group of colleagues next

spring in Vancouver.

I think we are all filled with the " elixir of losing " for a considerable

period following our surgeries. We're on the high of a lifetime. People

notice us...often for the first time ever in a positive way, and we alternate

between wishing they'd tell us more about how great we look and sometimes

wishing they would mind their own business. The problem with " highs " are the

lows which follow. What WLS'ers need most are stability and balance, not

high's and low's. But it's hard to find. One minute people are all over us

with admiration and the next they are doing something ignorantly intrusive.

And I think we perpetuate the ignorant, negative stuff by continually looking

for more " elixir " . Let's face it. All those compliments are pretty

intoxicating!

We probably don't really let go of the " elixir " until we see it for the

de-stabilizer it really is. Stability is what helps us MAINTAIN over the

long haul. Balance is what makes us stable.

It's a mighty big adjustment to go from being the but of every joke to the

envy of every dieter. And since nearly everyone diets some of the time

that's a lot of folks.

We often go through a series of plastic surgeries and even relationship

surgeries (the kind that trim away uneeded or abusive friends and relatives!)

Maybe some of us even need to look at a little " personality " surgery. I'm

not saying here that because we were fat we were riddled with

psychopathology. No one thinks that less than I do. But we probably need to

look hard at what we brought to the table ourselves psychologically speaking

which hurt us. We may need to get rid of some of the old garbage which

helped to get us and keep us MO.

But however good for us this kind of personal houscleaning is in the long

run.... it's very stressful in the short run. We ought to have professional

support available people who can help us navigate the mine fields and

obstacles. But most of the professionals out there who might be able to do

this don't even realize that these surgeries have come out of the dark ages.

Most would try to talk us out of it and not even have a clue about how to

support us thourgh the process.

I'd like to do some small part to encourage my colleagues to LEARN about

weight loss surgery and how to help us in making all these huge transitions.

Your post helped me move forward in that effort. Thanks.

To address your question more directly, I think you already took a huge step

away from the dangerous " elixir " described above by acknowledging your

husband's comments in a way which will let you learn and grow from them.

Sounds like it may have been a bit rough at the time but that he meant it for

your benefit and that you took it that way. Sounds like you two might want

to have a longer private conversation about balancing these needs -yours to

talk about all of this especially and his for you to just be normal (which

even though you look it now doesn't mean you feel it inside!)

If you don't have one already I recommend finding a therapist to " bore " for a

while (just kidding!) but you do need to talk about this and to heal over

time just like you would with other major losses. I don't think there's a

firm timetable within which to accomplish this. Everyone needs their own

timeline for loss. Certainly your participation online here has been

theraputic for you (and all of us!) but probably isn't enough. You can't

beat face to face discussions with a truly caring and competent professional.

It tough to find someone qualified to do what I'm suggesting well but it's

worth the effort of searching.

Good luck and keep writing. Your posts are priceless.

Carol

Shrinkin in Philly

WLS 6/99 5'6 " , 300lbs. 55

Abdominalplasty 6/00 170 lbs.

Brachioplasty & Lippo 7/00 160 lbs.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/18/00 11:14:44 AM US Eastern Standard Time, CarolASig

writes:

<< We probably don't really let go of the " elixir " until we see it for the

de-stabilizer it really is. Stability is what helps us MAINTAIN over the

long haul. Balance is what makes us stable.

>>

So, as I said to Bob, we have traded our food addiction for a compliments

addiction! But ... but ... how then do we figure out who we are? I know that

sounds really dopey, but it is an issue.

I have changed so much from 15 months ago that it is just incredible. I have

lost my job and learned that I am not just defined by my profession. I have

stopped shopping (broke)! except in resale shops and for essentials. I don't

eat compulsively anymore. Can't work, can't eat, can't shop ... pretty scary!

Just left with me, whoever that is.

I know I have depended on the comments of others to define me. Or, rather, to

help redefine me. And I know that is work I need to do myself. I just don't

know where to start.

I do work with a therapist and that has been helpful. But there are times

when I can outtalk her and avoid having to deal with the real me. (I'm not

suggesting that she doesn't know this is happening. She knows and points it

out when it happens.)

Thanks for your good thoughts and your kind words. It is an amazing journey

we are on!

hugs,

Ann

[Guest guest]

Dear Felicia,

Your letter was very insightful, and right on the money! It sure is true,

losing this amount of weight is an incredible experience, that no one who

hasn't done the same thing can really understand!

I struggle with the same feelings of wanting to be noticed, and praised,

but for me, it has stopped some time ago. I don't know why- I think it has to

do with people just getting used to the new me, and forgetting that I ever

looked so much different. That is a good thing. Also, I have noticed that

many of the so called " normal size " people really don't have such perfect

bodies- at my age, they often have tummies. It seems they often resent anyone

who has lost weight.

Anyway, I do wish I could go back in time and be different. I wish now

that I could dress up in some sexy, sleek dress and go to a nice Christmas

party and show off my new figure, but unfortunately, my lifestyle for the

last 20 years has been to be very reclusive, and stay home with my hubby.

Just losing weight is not going to change that. So, I am afraid that I still

am looking longingly at those dresses! I know that I would look good in one

now. Oh well.

Thanks for listening!

Connie K in upstate NY

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann,

In the note I sent you yesterday I didn't mention this but it fits with

something in your response so I'll add it now.

Just like the " confusion " which swirls around us in our new thin bodies I

always experienced a fair amount of confusion in my fat body. Having worked

with lots of women with eating disorders I was pretty familiar with distorted

body images and the impact they have on people. Sometimes I had a distorted

image myself.

The typical scenario is the ultra thin person who thinks they are too fat

whereas I alternated between seeing two different people in the mirror

depending on my mood. One image was an attractive, but " chubby " woman who

couldn't see her morbid obesity (I hate that term!) and the other was a

hideous, gross, morbidly obese looser, who didn't deserve to live but was

actually an attractive heavy (not much better!) woman who was very depresssed

about her appearance.

Now I see a thinner person but I still don't always see a good enough or thin

enough person. The difference for me now is that I feel so much better

health wise and looks wise and most of the time it's GOOD ENOUGH now. That's

probably what normal people in our culture feel - OK most of the time, right?

The point I want to make is that the confusion persists and maybe it's not

that abnormal to have it. Makes sense that we'd sop up compliments which

confirm the thin image we seek. But the down side remains the same. If we

don't believe we are good enough or thin enough in our own hearts or inner

most core then it won't stick and we'll keep going out looking for

confirmation elsewhere. So a big part of our long term recovery will be the

challenge to figure out what's good enough...the balance, and then to learn

how to maintain it...the stability. If we keep indulging in the " elixir of

thinness " we are much like the anorexic who needs to be thinner and thinner

to feel ok.

Not that an occasional drink isn't nice.....but mostly I'm on the wagon!

Carol

Shrinkin in Philly

WLS 6/99 5'6 " , 300lbs. 55

Abdominalplasty 6/00 170 lbs.

Brachioplasty & Lippo 7/00 160 lbs.

Yesterday's note to Ann

So many of your posts are powerfully reflective and introspective. I enjoy

them enormously.

This particular one prompts a reply because it goes deftly to the heart of a

subject I have been mulling for some time. As a " grad " and a therapist I am

concern about issues like this which play out over time post op. It's a

concern I hope to incorporate in a presentation to a group of colleagues next

spring in Vancouver.

I think we are all filled with the " elixir of losing " for a considerable

period following our surgeries. We're on the high of a lifetime. People

notice us...often for the first time ever in a positive way, and we alternate

between wishing they'd tell us more about how great we look and sometimes

wishing they would mind their own business. The problem with " highs " are the

lows which follow. What WLS'ers need most are stability and balance, not

high's and low's. But it's hard to find. One minute people are all over us

with admiration and the next they are doing something ignorantly intrusive.

And I think we perpetuate the ignorant, negative stuff by continually looking

for more " elixir " . Let's face it. All those compliments are pretty

intoxicating!

We probably don't really let go of the " elixir " until we see it for the

de-stabilizer it really is. Stability is what helps us MAINTAIN over the

long haul. Balance is what makes us stable.

It's a mighty big adjustment to go from being the but of every joke to the

envy of every dieter. And since nearly everyone diets some of the time

that's a lot of folks.

We often go through a series of plastic surgeries and even relationship

surgeries (the kind that trim away uneeded or abusive friends and relatives!)

Maybe some of us even need to look at a little " personality " surgery. I'm

not saying here that because we were fat we were riddled with

psychopathology. No one thinks that less than I do. But we probably need to

look hard at what we brought to the table ourselves psychologically speaking

which hurt us. We may need to get rid of some of the old garbage which

helped to get us and keep us MO.

But however good for us this kind of personal houscleaning is in the long

run.... it's very stressful in the short run. We ought to have professional

support available people who can help us navigate the mine fields and

obstacles. But most of the professionals out there who might be able to do

this don't even realize that these surgeries have come out of the dark ages.

Most would try to talk us out of it and not even have a clue about how to

support us thourgh the process.

I'd like to do some small part to encourage my colleagues to LEARN about

weight loss surgery and how to help us in making all these huge transitions.

Your post helped me move forward in that effort. Thanks.

To address your question more directly, I think you already took a huge step

away from the dangerous " elixir " described above by acknowledging your

husband's comments in a way which will let you learn and grow from them.

Sounds like it may have been a bit rough at the time but that he meant it for

your benefit and that you took it that way. Sounds like you two might want

to have a longer private conversation about balancing these needs -yours to

talk about all of this especially and his for you to just be normal (which

even though you look it now doesn't mean you feel it inside!)

If you don't have one already I recommend finding a therapist to " bore " for a

while (just kidding!) but you do need to talk about this and to heal over

time just like you would with other major losses. I don't think there's a

firm timetable within which to accomplish this. Everyone needs their own

timeline for loss. Certainly your participation online here has been

theraputic for you (and all of us!) but probably isn't enough. You can't

beat face to face discussions with a truly caring and competent professional.

It tough to find someone qualified to do what I'm suggesting well but it's

worth the effort of searching.

Good luck and keep writing. Your posts are priceless.