Re: Pancreas Overdrive: was- Question

[Guest guest]

The evidence that sulf drugs cause progression of beta cell failure faster

than other meds or insulin in well controlled diabetics is inconclusive, at

best. Yes, Dr. Bernstein argues this theory, but the studies don't necessarily

back him up, and they haven't been done on well controlled diabetics. If BG is

not high, it seems that sulfs do not do further beta cell damage.

If you are not a well controlled diabetic, then that alone will cause beta

cell failure over the long haul - it appears that it is the high BG that does

the beta cell damage, not the producing of the insulin alone.

I'll look for some information to back this up.

Stacey

[Guest guest]

> The evidence that sulf drugs cause progression of beta cell failure faster

> than other meds or insulin in well controlled diabetics is inconclusive,

at

> best. Yes, Dr. Bernstein argues this theory, but the studies don't

necessarily

> back him up

There have been articles (or at least one article) lately that argue that

sulfs do, in fact, cause progression.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Gretchen, could you please post the URL for that article? Thank you. Sue

>

> There have been articles (or at least one article) lately that argue

> that

> sulfs do, in fact, cause progression.

[Guest guest]

> Gretchen, could you please post the URL for that article? Thank you. Sue

I don't have it.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

I thought I might have saved something in my archives on the subject but

I haven't, alas. Sorry...but you could do a Google search, you might

find it that way. And if you do, let us know.

Vicki

Re: Pancreas Overdrive: was- Question

> Gretchen, could you please post the URL for that article? Thank you.

> Sue

>

>

>>

>> There have been articles (or at least one article) lately that argue

>> that

>> sulfs do, in fact, cause progression.

>

>

[Guest guest]

The question of stimulating beta cells to make them work harder, as opposed

to injecting with insulin to allow them to work less, is typical of the unclear

medical issues that we have to decide in our lives. All we can do is make our

best judgment and move on.

I can see no advantage in making beta cells work harder, and IF in doing so

they cease to provide useful output, you have acquired a great disadvantage.

In contrast, responsible, informed use of insulin MAY be advantageous, and I

see little in the way of disadvantage.

These arguments lead me to use insulin as the best way to save my beta cells

and retain the automatic BG control they provide. After 15 years of type 2

diabetes, the decision to make life as easy as possible for my beta cells,

appears to be a good one.

[Guest guest]

The question of stimulating beta cells to make them work harder, as opposed

to injecting with insulin to allow them to work less, is typical of the unclear

medical issues that we have to decide in our lives. All we can do is make our

best judgment and move on.

I can see no advantage in making beta cells work harder, and IF in doing so

they cease to provide useful output, you have acquired a great disadvantage.

In contrast, responsible, informed use of insulin MAY be advantageous, and I

see little in the way of disadvantage.

These arguments lead me to use insulin as the best way to save my beta cells

and retain the automatic BG control they provide. After 15 years of type 2

diabetes, the decision to make life as easy as possible for my beta cells,

appears to be a good one.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/5/2005 10:11:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,

gretchen@... writes:

> But you yourself did not use insulin in the first years after you were

> Dx'd.

> If you think back and ask yourself why you didn't go on insulin right away

> that might illustrate why other newbies don't want to rush into insulin.

>

This is true. I did not rush to insulin. Initially, I protected my pancreas

by very careful attention to diet, but when I had to use prednisone for other

ailments, diet control alone was inadequate. It was then that I opted to use

insulin to rather than other methods.

.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/5/2005 10:11:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,

gretchen@... writes:

> But you yourself did not use insulin in the first years after you were

> Dx'd.

> If you think back and ask yourself why you didn't go on insulin right away

> that might illustrate why other newbies don't want to rush into insulin.

>

This is true. I did not rush to insulin. Initially, I protected my pancreas

by very careful attention to diet, but when I had to use prednisone for other

ailments, diet control alone was inadequate. It was then that I opted to use

insulin to rather than other methods.

.

[Guest guest]

> These arguments lead me to use insulin as the best way to save my beta

cells

> and retain the automatic BG control they provide.

, what you say makes sense.

But you yourself did not use insulin in the first years after you were Dx'd.

If you think back and ask yourself why you didn't go on insulin right away

that might illustrate why other newbies don't want to rush into insulin.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

> These arguments lead me to use insulin as the best way to save my beta

cells

> and retain the automatic BG control they provide.

, what you say makes sense.

But you yourself did not use insulin in the first years after you were Dx'd.

If you think back and ask yourself why you didn't go on insulin right away

that might illustrate why other newbies don't want to rush into insulin.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Well there HAVE been studies showing various disadvantages of using

insulin but with few other alternatives it was prob the lesser of the

evils.

Now with the new lizard spit on the market if I ever found that

Metformin no longer handled my bg's I would not ask for insulin but

that--at least that is what I think now, before the disadvantages of the

new drug are discovered. I may have to re-evaluate my decision when the

time comes.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

4/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Well there HAVE been studies showing various disadvantages of using

insulin but with few other alternatives it was prob the lesser of the

evils.

Now with the new lizard spit on the market if I ever found that

Metformin no longer handled my bg's I would not ask for insulin but

that--at least that is what I think now, before the disadvantages of the

new drug are discovered. I may have to re-evaluate my decision when the

time comes.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

4/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

I was thinking that, too, Cappie, about the lizard spit. But then

someone posted the price! I'm already costing my insurance company too

much, with Enbrel for RA costing $12-13,000 a year. Sue

> Well there HAVE been studies showing various disadvantages of using

> insulin but with few other alternatives it was prob the lesser of the

> evils.

>

> Now with the new lizard spit on the market if I ever found that

> Metformin no longer handled my bg's I would not ask for insulin but

> that--at least that is what I think now, before the disadvantages of

> the

> new drug are discovered. I may have to re-evaluate my decision when

> the

> time comes.

[Guest guest]

I was thinking that, too, Cappie, about the lizard spit. But then

someone posted the price! I'm already costing my insurance company too

much, with Enbrel for RA costing $12-13,000 a year. Sue

> Well there HAVE been studies showing various disadvantages of using

> insulin but with few other alternatives it was prob the lesser of the

> evils.

>

> Now with the new lizard spit on the market if I ever found that

> Metformin no longer handled my bg's I would not ask for insulin but

> that--at least that is what I think now, before the disadvantages of

> the

> new drug are discovered. I may have to re-evaluate my decision when

> the

> time comes.

[Guest guest]

Well I am hoping Sue that by the time I may be in need of the lizard

spit, the price will have come down due to more common usage.

Still, because it avoids some of the known drawbacks to insulin such as

weight gain (in fact it seems to promote weight loss!) & heart problems

from so much insulin in the body system, it may be worth the extra cost

even right now. Depends -- ymmv.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

4/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Well I am hoping Sue that by the time I may be in need of the lizard

spit, the price will have come down due to more common usage.

Still, because it avoids some of the known drawbacks to insulin such as

weight gain (in fact it seems to promote weight loss!) & heart problems

from so much insulin in the body system, it may be worth the extra cost

even right now. Depends -- ymmv.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

4/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

How much does lizard spit cost? Maybe I should catch my own lizard?

ml

cappie@... wrote:

>

> Well I am hoping Sue that by the time I may be in need of the lizard

> spit, the price will have come down due to more common usage.

>

> Still, because it avoids some of the known drawbacks to insulin such as

> weight gain (in fact it seems to promote weight loss!) & heart problems

> from so much insulin in the body system, it may be worth the extra cost

> even right now. Depends -- ymmv.

>

> cappie

> Greater Boston Area

[Guest guest]

How much does lizard spit cost? Maybe I should catch my own lizard?

ml

cappie@... wrote:

>

> Well I am hoping Sue that by the time I may be in need of the lizard

> spit, the price will have come down due to more common usage.

>

> Still, because it avoids some of the known drawbacks to insulin such as

> weight gain (in fact it seems to promote weight loss!) & heart problems

> from so much insulin in the body system, it may be worth the extra cost

> even right now. Depends -- ymmv.

>

> cappie

> Greater Boston Area

[Guest guest]

> Still, because it avoids some of the known drawbacks to insulin such as

> weight gain (in fact it seems to promote weight loss!) & heart problems

> from so much insulin in the body system, it may be worth the extra cost

> even right now.

With any new drug, we don't know long-term risks/benefits. Unless I were in

a clinical study with a lot of lab tests as it went on, I'd wait a year or

so before trying it.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

> Still, because it avoids some of the known drawbacks to insulin such as

> weight gain (in fact it seems to promote weight loss!) & heart problems

> from so much insulin in the body system, it may be worth the extra cost

> even right now.

With any new drug, we don't know long-term risks/benefits. Unless I were in

a clinical study with a lot of lab tests as it went on, I'd wait a year or

so before trying it.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

At 03:22 PM 5/5/05, cappie@... wrote:

>Still, because it avoids some of the known drawbacks to insulin such as

>weight gain (in fact it seems to promote weight loss!) & heart problems

>from so much insulin in the body system, it may be worth the extra cost

>even right now. Depends -- ymmv.

Yes, that DOES sound good, doesnt' it? The idea of weight gain when I'm

trying so hard to lose a few pounds (and I've gained back some of them

again! GRrrrrr) is the only thing that turns me off of the thought of

insulin some day in the future.

sky

[Guest guest]

At 03:22 PM 5/5/05, cappie@... wrote:

>Still, because it avoids some of the known drawbacks to insulin such as

>weight gain (in fact it seems to promote weight loss!) & heart problems

>from so much insulin in the body system, it may be worth the extra cost

>even right now. Depends -- ymmv.

Yes, that DOES sound good, doesnt' it? The idea of weight gain when I'm

trying so hard to lose a few pounds (and I've gained back some of them

again! GRrrrrr) is the only thing that turns me off of the thought of

insulin some day in the future.

sky

[Guest guest]

Well I certainly hope & pray Gretchen that I have more than a year to

wait till I need to consider stronger drugs than Metformin for control!

Since at a low 5% A1c & I am only eating a moderate carb diet now &

still not at maximum dose of Met--I would have those to proceed to

before the next step to lizard spit.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

4/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Well I certainly hope & pray Gretchen that I have more than a year to

wait till I need to consider stronger drugs than Metformin for control!

Since at a low 5% A1c & I am only eating a moderate carb diet now &

still not at maximum dose of Met--I would have those to proceed to

before the next step to lizard spit.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

4/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...