Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 > In any event it must be very discouraging to others > who have been led to expect that weight loss will make a huge difference > in their diabetes I agree. Health professionals should NOT say, " Just lose 10 pounds and your diabetes will go away. " they should say, " In some people, weight loss can make a big difference. So let's try it. If it doesn't work, it's not your fault, and then we'll focus on other things. " > an ongoing battle every day for the rest of your life Yes, as someone said, " If you have a drug habit, you have a monster you have to keep in the closet. If you have a weight problem, you have a monster in the closet, but you have to take it out and walk it 3 times a day. Gretchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:06:35 EDT staceypmartin@... writes: > > > correlations between obesity and other diseases. Causation is more > difficult to prove. > Yes, obese people are more prone to diabetes. Is it the obesity > that causes the diabetes or the diabetes and insulin resistance that causes the > obesity? > Ah, which came first the chicken or the egg. You make some good points Stacey but, as you probably already know, sadly all the rationale in the world cannot change a closed mind. I don't have a weight problem but I have DM. I have a brother who does have a weight problem and has had the same problem since he was a little tyke but he doesn't have DM. You go to the gym 5 days a week, bowing my head, I don't. You get more exercise than I do and reading what activities you do exhausts me, bowing my head again. From previous posts, you eat healthier than I do and after all is said and done, you are probably healthier than I am. Even though I do not have a weight problem I do find it disquieting that there are still people out there who still enjoy finger pointing and assigning blame while trying to justify having a closed mind. I have a lot of respect for your efforts to keep yourself at the healthiest level possible; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:06:35 EDT staceypmartin@... writes: > > > correlations between obesity and other diseases. Causation is more > difficult to prove. > Yes, obese people are more prone to diabetes. Is it the obesity > that causes the diabetes or the diabetes and insulin resistance that causes the > obesity? > Ah, which came first the chicken or the egg. You make some good points Stacey but, as you probably already know, sadly all the rationale in the world cannot change a closed mind. I don't have a weight problem but I have DM. I have a brother who does have a weight problem and has had the same problem since he was a little tyke but he doesn't have DM. You go to the gym 5 days a week, bowing my head, I don't. You get more exercise than I do and reading what activities you do exhausts me, bowing my head again. From previous posts, you eat healthier than I do and after all is said and done, you are probably healthier than I am. Even though I do not have a weight problem I do find it disquieting that there are still people out there who still enjoy finger pointing and assigning blame while trying to justify having a closed mind. I have a lot of respect for your efforts to keep yourself at the healthiest level possible; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:06:35 EDT staceypmartin@... writes: > > > correlations between obesity and other diseases. Causation is more > difficult to prove. > Yes, obese people are more prone to diabetes. Is it the obesity > that causes the diabetes or the diabetes and insulin resistance that causes the > obesity? > Ah, which came first the chicken or the egg. You make some good points Stacey but, as you probably already know, sadly all the rationale in the world cannot change a closed mind. I don't have a weight problem but I have DM. I have a brother who does have a weight problem and has had the same problem since he was a little tyke but he doesn't have DM. You go to the gym 5 days a week, bowing my head, I don't. You get more exercise than I do and reading what activities you do exhausts me, bowing my head again. From previous posts, you eat healthier than I do and after all is said and done, you are probably healthier than I am. Even though I do not have a weight problem I do find it disquieting that there are still people out there who still enjoy finger pointing and assigning blame while trying to justify having a closed mind. I have a lot of respect for your efforts to keep yourself at the healthiest level possible; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 When you find out Sky, let me know! cappie Greater Boston Area T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu 50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E, Policosanol, fish oil cap, fresh flax seed, multi vitamin, Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg 4/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309), 5' tall /age 67, cappie@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 When you find out Sky, let me know! cappie Greater Boston Area T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu 50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E, Policosanol, fish oil cap, fresh flax seed, multi vitamin, Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg 4/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309), 5' tall /age 67, cappie@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 When you find out Sky, let me know! cappie Greater Boston Area T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu 50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E, Policosanol, fish oil cap, fresh flax seed, multi vitamin, Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg 4/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309), 5' tall /age 67, cappie@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 Gretchen, What a saying! Mind if I share it with my weight loss groups? SulaBlue > Yes, as someone said, " If you have a drug habit, you have a monster you have > to keep in the closet. If you have a weight problem, you have a monster in > the closet, but you have to take it out and walk it 3 times a day. > > > Gretchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 Gretchen, What a saying! Mind if I share it with my weight loss groups? SulaBlue > Yes, as someone said, " If you have a drug habit, you have a monster you have > to keep in the closet. If you have a weight problem, you have a monster in > the closet, but you have to take it out and walk it 3 times a day. > > > Gretchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 Gretchen, What a saying! Mind if I share it with my weight loss groups? SulaBlue > Yes, as someone said, " If you have a drug habit, you have a monster you have > to keep in the closet. If you have a weight problem, you have a monster in > the closet, but you have to take it out and walk it 3 times a day. > > > Gretchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 Hi Stacey I know I said I had made my last post on the subject, but this is not on obesity, it's on mis-representation. Repeatedly I am quoted out of context or you give your own meaning to the words I say. I also noted 's comments on closed minds - I'll let other readers make their own decisons on who has closed minds in this debate. That's if there are any others still reading this thread. My mind was wide open when the doc told me to get a meter and lose 10% of my body weight. I just didn't stop at 10%. Some comments on your most recent post: <snip> > > You mention other things affected by obesity. Sure, there > are many correlations between obesity and other diseases. > Causation is more difficult to prove. > Yes, obese people are more prone to diabetes. Is it the > obesity that causes the diabetes or the diabetes and insulin > resistance that causes the obesity? > I couldn't care less which caused which. I'm just interested in how best to treat it and live longer. You are the one playing the blame game, not me. Blame and guilt are about the past. However, I would consider myself stupid for remaining obese when the evidence shows that it will kill or maim me. <snip> > > >We will never agree, because you are more interested in finding > >ways to rationalise fat acceptance than doing the hard work of > >fat reduction. OK, that's your choice, there is no blame or > >guilt involved here - just stop pretending that it's healthy. > > Oh, I see. Because I am fat, I must not be objective and must > have some agenda that means my views are not valid. > That is not what I said. You copied what I did say, then skewed it by your re-wording. No, not because you are fat. Because you have convinced yourself that it is not possible to succssfully lose weight and that therefore it is not possible that it may be unhealthy to be fat. So you read and listen only to those who agree with you and accuse anyone who doesn't of some personal agenda or laying guilt. At no stage did I say you were fat - you did. To me it wasn't a factor in the discussion until you brought it in and decided to make it personal. Incidentally, I don't see any pejorative difference between fat and obese. <snip> > Have I been sitting around eating bon bons and jelly doughnuts? > I don't think so. But I've always been fat, even as a child. I don't know the answer to that. Only you do. Post your complete menu, including snacks with portion size and calorie count, then maybe someone could answer you. > and My brother wasn't fat. Why is that? We grew up in the same > household, eating the same foods, even had the same parents? Post his menu and activity chart too, then maybe we could compare. <snip> > > I notice that you say you work hard at weight loss. Why do you > still have diabetes? Is your cholesterol high? Why? What > about blood pressure? > I still have diabetes - it is, at the moment, an incurable affliction. I only have to eat a slice of toast for breakfast to know that. My A1c is 5.7. My cholesterol is now excellent, although I am genetically prone to high LDL, my HDL is 1.4(54) and my trigs are 1.0(88). I'm experimenting with CoQ10 and B12 in an attempt to reduce LDL but I may need to go back to Lipitor20. My BP is around 115/70. I also take a calcium supp, but I take no other drugs, supps or insulin. Before I lost the weight and changed my diet using " test,test,test " my lipids were terrible, my A1c was 8.2 and my BP was 150+/90+. My progress came in two stages; first I lost most of the weight which improved everything, but didn't get the A1c as low as I wanted, then I " discovered " 's advice on testing and used that to fine-tune the simple weight-loss diet I had developed for myself. As time went on I added red wine and extra fibre and nutrients using vegetables to improve nutrition and replace fibre lost as I cut out many starches. And you are correct in one respect - it's not easy to keep it off. I reached 90 Kg(198lb) and I've slipped back to 95Kg(209), starting at 117Kg(257). I know that my numbers will not be as good next blood test. But I also know that I've been on a holiday from my previously strict regimen and have not been exercising as regularly as I need to. That's something I can, and will, correct. <snip> > I notice you're a man. That makes you more susceptible to > certain diseases. Why not become a woman? > Oh, come on. I'm trying to keep this debate rational. Alan, T2, Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 > What a saying! Mind if I share it with my weight loss groups? Sure. But it's not original with me, so don't give me credit. Gretchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 > Can you take your fight off list please? Thanks. > Done and finished in this thread. I apologise to all for letting it get under my skin. Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Alan, you've misrepresented what I'm saying as well. The major misrepresentation is that I've never said that weight can't be lost, what I have said, and what is borne out by studies, is that about 5% manage to keep it off long term (5 years or more). But I can see by your post that you're not going to allow for the fact that there's another way to think about this, so I think we might as well end it here as I'm sure many are bored by it. Stacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Alan, you've misrepresented what I'm saying as well. The major misrepresentation is that I've never said that weight can't be lost, what I have said, and what is borne out by studies, is that about 5% manage to keep it off long term (5 years or more). But I can see by your post that you're not going to allow for the fact that there's another way to think about this, so I think we might as well end it here as I'm sure many are bored by it. Stacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Alan, you've misrepresented what I'm saying as well. The major misrepresentation is that I've never said that weight can't be lost, what I have said, and what is borne out by studies, is that about 5% manage to keep it off long term (5 years or more). But I can see by your post that you're not going to allow for the fact that there's another way to think about this, so I think we might as well end it here as I'm sure many are bored by it. Stacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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