Older Children with Apraxia

[Guest guest]

_rulo@..._ (mailto:rulo@...) writes:

I know I have asked before, but I didn't get a response, does anyone have

older apraxic children who have gone through the tough high school years and

can offer any suggestions academically and/or socially?

Hi Joyce,

I have a 3 yr old son with Apraxia. He was adopted so he is not

biologically related to my older step son that also had speech issues.

Although, the

older child was never formally diagnosed with Apraxia I can see it in him after

receiving my younger son's Dx.

He is now 17 and a senior in high school. You really can't tell much

anymore that he has a " speech problem " . When he's tired he can be a bit hard

to

understand. All in all though he's made tremendous progress since I came into

his life 10 years ago. He's a very bright kid and is looking forward to his

future. He wants to go to medical school and become a neurosurgeon.

I really think it was a slow process with his speech. He went through a lot

of frustration and practice getting the words out.

This probably hasn't helped much, but I just wanted you to know your not

alone.

With him I just wish I knew 7 years ago what I know now. I had no idea

there were classifications of speech delays and certain ways to help treat

them.

He also has huge sensory issues I wish I also knew about. I never even

heard the word sensory before my 3 year old. But it helps our older child know

he is doing certain things because it's sensory. I think putting a label on

it has helped him a lot. For example he will wear his winter jacket until

it's so hot out he just can't wear it anymore. We now realize he like the

weight of the jacket. I'll see him with it on on a warm day and joke " having a

sensory day? " ... He laughs..

Teenage years are so hard and especially for a girl. I really wish you the

best with getting the help she needs.

Amy

[Guest guest]

Amy, thanks for your encouragement. You are right when you say the teenage

years are tough especially for girls. I have 2 older girls, 23 years and 18

years and I know they were very self conscious and uncomfortable with

themselves during the teen years. Then for my youngest Meghan( 14) it is so

much more complicated given that she cannot even come close to expressing

how she is feeling. Also not having a close friend to share those odd

feelings with is tough. She tells me often she " feels weird " It is so hard

for her to put a more precise word on her feelings. We try to talk about

it, but I know there is so much more in her head than even I can get at.

With counselors she just says everything is fine because it is easier than

to find the words to explain.

It is great that your son does well academically. Does he have any good

friends?

It is funny that you mentioned the sweatshirt thing. Meghan would rather

wear a sweatshirt in 80 degree weather than wear the " undergarment " she

needs to wear for her maturing young body. LOL I guess I never really

thought of it but it is probably a sensory issue.

thanks for your thoughts

Joyce

[ ] Older Children with Apraxia

>

>

> _rulo@..._ (mailto:rulo@...) writes:

>

> I know I have asked before, but I didn't get a response, does anyone

have

> older apraxic children who have gone through the tough high school years

and

> can offer any suggestions academically and/or socially?

>

> Hi Joyce,

> I have a 3 yr old son with Apraxia. He was adopted so he is not

> biologically related to my older step son that also had speech issues.

Although, the

> older child was never formally diagnosed with Apraxia I can see it in him

after

> receiving my younger son's Dx.

> He is now 17 and a senior in high school. You really can't tell much

> anymore that he has a " speech problem " . When he's tired he can be a bit

hard to

> understand. All in all though he's made tremendous progress since I came

into

> his life 10 years ago. He's a very bright kid and is looking forward to

his

> future. He wants to go to medical school and become a neurosurgeon.

> I really think it was a slow process with his speech. He went through a

lot

> of frustration and practice getting the words out.

> This probably hasn't helped much, but I just wanted you to know your not

> alone.

> With him I just wish I knew 7 years ago what I know now. I had no idea

> there were classifications of speech delays and certain ways to help treat

them.

> He also has huge sensory issues I wish I also knew about. I never even

> heard the word sensory before my 3 year old. But it helps our older

child know

> he is doing certain things because it's sensory. I think putting a label

on

> it has helped him a lot. For example he will wear his winter jacket

until

> it's so hot out he just can't wear it anymore. We now realize he like

the

> weight of the jacket. I'll see him with it on on a warm day and joke

" having a

> sensory day? " ... He laughs..

> Teenage years are so hard and especially for a girl. I really wish you

the

> best with getting the help she needs.

> Amy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Joyce,

I sure remember my son getting picked on. It happened when he was in

elementary and middle school. He had glasses, walked on his toes, and had

difficulty expressing himself. It was a tough time.

He does have good friends now, but it didn't always seem that way. I think

high school is where he made most of his friends. We also moved right before

his freshman year. By then his speech had dramatically improved. He was

more confident at this age and knew he could speak pretty clearly if he slowed

down his talking. When he was younger his brain always seemed to be a step

ahead of his mouth. He would get so frustrated.

Has the therapist considered another method of getting your daughter to

express her feelings? What about having her write a journal she can share with

her therapist.

My son is very intelligent. His speech never had anything to do with that.

I think sometimes people incorrectly label those with a speech problem.

They can be considered less intelligent than they really are. You know what

I'm

trying to say? It's a lot for the kids to have to overcome.

Do you or anyone else know is apraxia something the kids overcome or will

they always have difficulty with their speech. Or is it both?

Amy

In a message dated 11/22/04 7:14:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Jcerulo@... writes:

Amy, thanks for your encouragement. You are right when you say the teenage

years are tough especially for girls. I have 2 older girls, 23 years and 18

years and I know they were very self conscious and uncomfortable with

themselves during the teen years. Then for my youngest Meghan( 14) it is so

much more complicated given that she cannot even come close to expressing

how she is feeling. Also not having a close friend to share those odd

feelings with is tough. She tells me often she " feels weird " It is so hard

for her to put a more precise word on her feelings. We try to talk about

it, but I know there is so much more in her head than even I can get at.

With counselors she just says everything is fine because it is easier than

to find the words to explain.

It is great that your son does well academically. Does he have any good

friends?

It is funny that you mentioned the sweatshirt thing. Meghan would rather

wear a sweatshirt in 80 degree weather than wear the " undergarment " she

needs to wear for her maturing young body. LOL I guess I never really

thought of it but it is probably a sensory issue.

thanks for your thoughts

Joyce

[Guest guest]

Re: [ ] Older Children with Apraxia

>

>

>

> Hi Joyce,

> I sure remember my son getting picked on. It happened when he was in

> elementary and middle school. He had glasses, walked on his toes, and had

> difficulty expressing himself. It was a tough time.

> He does have good friends now, but it didn't always seem that way. I

think

> high school is where he made most of his friends. We also moved right

before

> his freshman year. By then his speech had dramatically improved. He was

> more confident at this age and knew he could speak pretty clearly if he

slowed

> down his talking. When he was younger his brain always seemed to be a

step

> ahead of his mouth. He would get so frustrated.

> Has the therapist considered another method of getting your daughter to

> express her feelings? What about having her write a journal she can share

with

> her therapist.

> My son is very intelligent. His speech never had anything to do with

that.

> I think sometimes people incorrectly label those with a speech problem.

> They can be considered less intelligent than they really are. You know

what I'm

> trying to say? It's a lot for the kids to have to overcome.

> Do you or anyone else know is apraxia something the kids overcome or will

> they always have difficulty with their speech. Or is it both?

> Amy

>

>

>

> In a message dated 11/22/04 7:14:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> Jcerulo@... writes:

>

> Amy, thanks for your encouragement. You are right when you say the

teenage

> years are tough especially for girls. I have 2 older girls, 23 years and

18

> years and I know they were very self conscious and uncomfortable with

> themselves during the teen years. Then for my youngest Meghan( 14) it is

so

> much more complicated given that she cannot even come close to expressing

> how she is feeling. Also not having a close friend to share those odd

> feelings with is tough. She tells me often she " feels weird " It is so

hard

> for her to put a more precise word on her feelings. We try to talk about

> it, but I know there is so much more in her head than even I can get at.

> With counselors she just says everything is fine because it is easier

than

> to find the words to explain.

> It is great that your son does well academically. Does he have any good

> friends?

> It is funny that you mentioned the sweatshirt thing. Meghan would rather

> wear a sweatshirt in 80 degree weather than wear the " undergarment " she

> needs to wear for her maturing young body. LOL I guess I never really

> thought of it but it is probably a sensory issue.

> thanks for your thoughts

> Joyce

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wish I knew if apraxia is something all our children will get past at some

point in their lives. My guess is that some will do better than others. No

one has been able to tell me that eventually Meghan will speak fluently.

She tells me all the time she wants to talk like me.

We do see progress over the years, but at 14 years, her speech is still

dramatically behind. It is also very hard for her to make complete

sentences (other than very simple ones) when she is writing. I thinks she

also struggles with word retrieval and sequencing.

Well, I will continue to remain optimistic and hopeful for her and all our

kids.

Joyce

[Guest guest]

Hi

It's nice to hear from people with older children with apraxia. My son is 10

and struggles everyday to get his feelings across to other people.

Sometimes he'll end up saying " Never mind mommy " and i'll feel terrible that i

didn't

understand him. For the most part i do but when he is excited or tired

that's when it is difficult and i'll have to remind him to slow down and don't

drop words or endings. As for the high school years, even though Steve hasn't

got there yet i have a friend whose daughter is now 23 years old. Let me

tell you she is my encouragement that yes it will be a struggle but it will

also

be OK. You can tell she has a speech problem but is understandable.

Almost as if she has a hearing impaired pronounciation problem but she is not

hearing impaired at all. She has a master's in Karate and just graduated from

the Gibbs School. She also has a very nice boyfriend whom she met at

the college. SO it will be OK. Just harder for ours than most but they

will accomplish their goals in life too it may just take a little longer.

Nice talking to you.

Kerry (stephen's mom)

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the happy ending for your friend's dautghter. It is nice to hear

success stories to give us hope about the future.

Joyce

Re: [ ] Older Children with Apraxia

>

>

> Hi

> It's nice to hear from people with older children with apraxia. My son is

10

> and struggles everyday to get his feelings across to other people.

> Sometimes he'll end up saying " Never mind mommy " and i'll feel terrible

that i didn't

> understand him. For the most part i do but when he is excited or tired

> that's when it is difficult and i'll have to remind him to slow down and

don't

> drop words or endings. As for the high school years, even though Steve

hasn't

> got there yet i have a friend whose daughter is now 23 years old. Let me

> tell you she is my encouragement that yes it will be a struggle but it

will also

> be OK. You can tell she has a speech problem but is understandable.

> Almost as if she has a hearing impaired pronounciation problem but she is

not

> hearing impaired at all. She has a master's in Karate and just graduated

from

> the Gibbs School. She also has a very nice boyfriend whom she

met at

> the college. SO it will be OK. Just harder for ours than most but they

> will accomplish their goals in life too it may just take a little longer.

>

> Nice talking to you.

>

> Kerry (stephen's mom)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Joyce,

Since I have no experience with this, I tried going to the internet,

hoping to find some awesome article for you.

Here is a grouping of books that might help. Many are disability-

specific.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-7477851-

6818422

What about asking Dr. Silver some specific questions about your

concerns?

http://www.ldonline.org/ld2/test/article.php?

max=20 & special_grouping= & id=0 & loc=4

Here is Dr. Silver's bio:Dr. Silver, a Child and Adolescent

Psychiatrist, is in private practice in the Washington, D.C. area.

He is Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at town University

Medical Center. Prior to his current activities, he was Acting

Director and Deputy Director of the National Institute of Mental

Health of the National Institutes of Health. Prior to his positions

at the National Institute of Mental Health he was Professor of

Psychiatry, Professor of Pediatrics, and Chief of the Division of

Child and Adolescent Psychiatry at the Wood School of

Medicine.

Here are some great resources and articles for helping a child with

a learning disability at home:

http://www.ldonline.org/ld2/test/article.php?max=20 & id=0 & loc=89

Here are some resources for social skills:

http://www.ldonline.org/ld2/test/article.php?max=20 & id=0 & loc=88

info on bullying and the special needs child:

http://www.nichcy.org/resources/bullying.asp

What about emailing http://www.cherab.org/news/.html

email: JasVc6@...

I wish I had some experience to offer you.

Tricia Morin

North Carolina

>

> I wish I knew if apraxia is something all our children will get

past at some

> point in their lives. My guess is that some will do better than

others. No

> one has been able to tell me that eventually Meghan will speak

fluently.

> She tells me all the time she wants to talk like me.

> We do see progress over the years, but at 14 years, her speech is

still

> dramatically behind. It is also very hard for her to make complete

> sentences (other than very simple ones) when she is writing. I

thinks she

> also struggles with word retrieval and sequencing.

> Well, I will continue to remain optimistic and hopeful for her and

all our

> kids.

> Joyce

[Guest guest]

Tricia, thanks for your help. I truly appreciate the support on this list.

Joyce

Tricia wrote:

> Joyce,

>

> Since I have no experience with this, I tried going to the internet,

> hoping to find some awesome article for you.

>

> Here is a grouping of books that might help. Many are disability-

> specific.

>

> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-7477851-

> 6818422

>

> What about asking Dr. Silver some specific questions about your

> concerns?

>

> http://www.ldonline.org/ld2/test/article.php?

> max=20 & special_grouping= & id=0 & loc=4

>

> Here is Dr. Silver's bio:Dr. Silver, a Child and Adolescent

> Psychiatrist, is in private practice in the Washington, D.C. area.

> He is Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at town University

> Medical Center. Prior to his current activities, he was Acting

> Director and Deputy Director of the National Institute of Mental

> Health of the National Institutes of Health. Prior to his positions

> at the National Institute of Mental Health he was Professor of

> Psychiatry, Professor of Pediatrics, and Chief of the Division of

> Child and Adolescent Psychiatry at the Wood School of

> Medicine.

>

> Here are some great resources and articles for helping a child with

> a learning disability at home:

>

> http://www.ldonline.org/ld2/test/article.php?max=20 & id=0 & loc=89

>

> Here are some resources for social skills:

>

> http://www.ldonline.org/ld2/test/article.php?max=20 & id=0 & loc=88

>

> info on bullying and the special needs child:

>

> http://www.nichcy.org/resources/bullying.asp

>

> What about emailing http://www.cherab.org/news/.html

> email: JasVc6@...

>

> I wish I had some experience to offer you.

>

>

>

> Tricia Morin

> North Carolina

[Guest guest]

>I know I have asked before, but I didn't get a response, does

>anyone have older apraxic children who have gone through the tough

>high school years and can offer any suggestions academically and/or

>socially?

Dear Joyce,

I relate to where you are with frustration in searching to help your

teenage child. We too found it difficult to get services through

high school for our apraxic son Khalid. It was difficult to know

where to begin, and what to expect, being that high school was a new

chapter in his life. By the time Khalid reached high school, after

years of speech and other therapies, he had become so accomplished

at knowing strategies and how to cope with apraxia, that he was

no longer qualified for Speech and OT services, even though his

speech was limited to simpler phrases that he felt more comfortable

with, around his eighth grade year. It was during that time of middle

school, that complex words used in science, geometry and of that

sort were at times difficult for him to say. Khalid worked on this

as he did anything he was aware that was a challenge. Again over

time, with learned strategies and becoming the composed

conversationalist that he now is, it would take a skill ear to be

aware of what he was like some years ago. In addition, Khalid

continued to progress, advancing to more and more complex words in

his vocabulary, and conversations became broader. Today he speaks

with such eloquence most of the time that he has been complemented

on his articulation from those who do not know his beginnings. You

can hear him (Kal) at age 13.8 on the talking page (long overdue for

his update) http://www.debtsmart.com/talk/index.html Overall we are

fortunate that his speech was no longer the focal point in high

school years, but as with most our children, there were other needs,

Khalid also has global (speech and limb) apraxia.

Khalid was exited from speech services by seventh grade, which we

all approved, but later his eighth grade year, when he felt that he

could use some school support he was then reinstated in speech services

for written language. When Khalid entered his 9th grade year, he was

then denied school speech/OT services altogether. This is why I so

relate to what you are going through today with Meagan. Later we

would regret that we did not pursue this further at that time. We

now know and encourage you if you are in this situation to know that

services are hard to secure again once they are stopped in high

school and I encourage you to do whatever necessary to fight for

what therapy is appropriate for your child, no matter what age, and

even if and when your child/teenage child has learned to " overcome "

may still need help from time to time.

The school's case was that Khalid's written language did not impact

his grades/education- therefore the school would not reinstate high

school services. What's normal to most -is not " normal " to a child

who had been in the upper end grade wise up till then? The school's

decision was based on what was common to that of his peers –not to

what was normal for Khalid. All of this we feel did impact Khalid

to some extent. These issues would only become more so visible at

challenging times. In math, Khalid did fairly well throughout mid

school, however, he has struggled with high school Geometry and

Algebra 2. It's peculiar, because in some math courses he excelled

and there are those he has struggled with. I think it could depend

on language in some cases. What has helped the situation, were just

educating the teacher about the needs of students with apraxia,

There were times we provided a handout regarding apraxia to teachers

and his advisor, which made a significant difference that brought

awareness to them. If there were no moving forward, he changed his

class/teacher or if necessary placed him in a smaller private night

class. This approach would always bring a lower grade back up to a

grade A/or B.

As Khalid grew older, he has learned to advocate for himself, and

takes the initiative to speak to his teachers/and or advisor on his

own to find solutions whenever needed. However, also knowing if he

should ever need his father and I, we will always be there for him.

The past two years he is most fortunate to have a well-versed

guidance counselor who advises him on his academic career. Finding a

school advisor that truly cares about your child and their needs is

essential. Khalid's advisor cared enough to become more

knowledgeable about apraxia and is a vital role to helping him meet

his educational goals. Before, going on two years with counselors who

see students/Khalid as just another number, we know the importance of

a qualified mentor. This school advisor has been there for my son in

the most productive and supportive ways! She's made a difference.

Because Khalid's needs at this point were considered quite mild

in comparison to other students who are in much greater need of

speech and language services, he did not fit into the category of

abnormal, nor did the school feel his language skills risk his

success in school. Therefore for support his high school years we

decided to seek assistance for him elsewhere. Out-of-pocket

expenses, Khalid went through some various private accommodations

such as, tutoring, and the Sylvan learning program and as mentioned

above, nighttime courses at a private school that offers a smaller

classroom setting. It was through outside services Khalid found

most accommodating to his needs. It's important that I emphasize

Khalid's strengths are far greater than anything he has struggled

with. Always his personal strengths we point out to him, we look up

to everything he has accomplished- everything that he is. Actually,

he does well/or above average in most subjects, and this has been

without school services. This year his favorite study is anatomy.

Journalism is another favorite course! Khalid loves to interview

athletes, and " write " sports articles. His teacher had submitted

(first of 4 years) to the school district paper a recent article

Khalid had done for his class assignment. Last year he also

excelled in a film critic class, which also involved so much

writing/filming and originality. Khalid has an out of the box

thinking style that brings so much energy to these classes!

Physically he is 6'5 and has become powerfully strong, he no longer

fatigues in daily task. With labored physical training he now has

good hand/eye coordination, which results in being that he is an

outstanding athlete in basketball and passionate about the game!

When it comes to Khalid's social life, today again he is quite

different than years ago. Khalid had a few good friends while he was

growing up, but there was a time he felt left out of the mainstream

and school was quite difficult. I believe as hard as the years were

to go through for all of us that part of life did not bring him

down. Khalid today is very outgoing and has many friendships (both

genders) in and out of school. His cell rings all the time, in fact

my husband and I joke that we need to make an appointment to see him

more these days, he is that out going!

My heart goes out to Meagan and all teens with speech impairments,

there was that period in Khalid's life he dealt with the same

frustrations; especially when it's hard for a teen to say a word at

mid-school or high school age (teens know what they can do) they

tend to not say things that they are not comfortable with or perhaps

embarrassed in front of their peers. Mid school, these are such

critical years for teens to find ways to maintain relationships.

Khalid in younger years also longed to fit in with peers, and how

I had wished that for my son. Today he fits in beautifully with peers

and good friends socially.

Once again, Khalid has learned to rise above. Khalid's perspective

when it comes to high school years, it gets much easier for kids,

the teasing is less, self-acceptance and of others becomes more.

Humor also plays a big role in building a positive self-image.

Finding lasting relationships is easier to come by. Khalid knows

no borders, he is compassionate to all people, and has always been.

Perhaps due to what he has come through. Not all children grow up

seeing life from so many angles as our children do. Mother nature

does not make much in the way of straight lines, both sides of our

bodies are not equal, none of us are perfect even though we are all

beautiful in our own way.

Parents have asked is apraxia something that our kids will ever get

past. I believe this holds true for Khalid, in many aspects of his

life he has overcome Global Apraxia. Meaning his apraxia does not

hold him back from living life as usual, its part of which he is,

and what made him stronger. His days are typical that of all teens,

he is self-reliant, drives his own car, has an enjoyable job, and

loves to plays sports, good relationships with family and friends.

Even has that special someone, first love, met her while we lived

in Oregon. Khalid recently went to his school's homecoming and had a

blast! He is looking forward to his prom and graduation this coming

May. Thereafter, he is planning for a promising future, his college

years, and a good career and someday wants to have a family of his

own!

What might be helpful to Meagan, Khalid was asked to write for the

Late Talker book on how he learned to overcome apraxia. Some of his

successful strategies/stories there are from mid-school years that

can be found in a few Chapters, but much on pages 136,158-159.

http://www.speechville.com/late.talker.html

I also as always highly recommend the book chicken soup for the

teenage soul. http://www.chickensoup.com/books/teen_3.html

The stories of triumph show that difficulties are placed

there for our children to rise above. We are there to help,

to support, and to cheer them on. In addition are some resources

listed below that are related to teens with disabilities. When I

look at Khalid today, I realize it was not that long ago how I

dreamed he would flourish to where he is today. He has arrived at a

place where he can very well make it on his own. Joyce, you'll be the

beacon of light, the hope that guides Meagan through her high school

years. Though it is a time for growth and challenges for teens with

apraxia, it's our prayer that Meagan will recognize and build on her

unique strengths that make her the beautiful person that she already

is, and come to realize that she is a winner by any standards!

Parents in closing, know how much I hold your heart whenever I tell of

Khalid's story- it is with his blessing I share his life's experiences

of rewards and challenges.

Mustafa

Mom to Khalid 18, Jadd 10.7, Danya 13

Selecting A School

http://www.schwablearning.org/articles.asp?r=294

All kinds of Minds

Student success program

http://www.allkindsofminds.org/ssc/index.aspx

Self-Advocacy: A Valuable Skill for Your Teenager

http://www.schwablearning.org/articles.asp?r=522

" Self-advocacy is understanding your strengths and needs,

identifying your personal goals, knowing your legal rights and

responsibilities, and communicating these to others. Because your

child lives with his learning struggles on a daily basis, he must

learn how to maneuver through life's challenges and obstacles to

make sure his needs are met. "

Kids As Self Advocates website

http://www.fvkasa.org/

For Teens, your future, education choices, Building skills, finding

support.

http://www.ld.org/livingwithld/teens_building_getorg.cfm

For teaching and facilitating transition and self-advocacy skills

http://www.ode.state.or.us/gradelevel/hs/transition/selfdetermination

..pdf

Transition and Self-Advocacy

http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/transition/transition_self_advocac

y.html

Rick Lavoie

http://www.ricklavoie.com/

A Teacher's Formula to Build Self-Esteem in Kids with LD

http://www.schwablearning.org/articles.asp?r=519

Dr. Hallowell Talks to Teens: Do You Feel Worried or Sad?

http://www.schwablearning.org/articles.asp?r=514

Top Tips For Dads Getting Involved

http://www.schwablearning.org/articles.asp?r=72

Dr. on Self-Esteem and Resilience Priscilla Vail

Explains how Emotional Issues Change as Kids Grow

http://www.schwablearning.org/articles.asp?r=372

Raising Resilient Children Foundation

ing Strength, Hope, and Optimism in Your Child

By , Ph.D., and Sam Goldstein, Ph.D.

http://www.raisingresilientkids.com/

Ability OnLine Support NetworkAbility OnLine is a free Internet

community where children/youth with disabilities/illness and their

parents can meet others like them, make friends from all over the

world, share their hopes and fears, find role-models and mentors,

and feel like they belong.

http://www.ablelink.org/public/default.htm

Language Strategies for Older Students (2001)

http://www.asha.org/about/publications/leader-online/reviews/strategies.htm

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your thoughtful, caring response. I am so hopeful that

Meghan will achieve the quality of life that Khalid has. He is truly an

inspiration to all of us.

My dilemma at the moment is whether or not to keep Meghan in a separate

classroom of kids who all have some kind of special needs. At first glance

the other childrens' disabilities present as more severe and more obvious

than Meghans verbal apraxia. But along with the apraxia ( or is it part of

it?) is word retreival, sequencing, memory for math facts issues and being

able to be a self starter. She has a terrific memory for people and events

but for school subjects not as good. She is in the " 8th grade " but her work

level is somewhat below. She is due for her three year eval and I am going

to get it done early so hopefully we can make better choices for next year.

I feel like the perfect choice for school next year is not available. While

I love the teacher and the way they approach the curriculum, the mix of

kids in the classroom is not a match for Meghan socially. Yet in a typical

8th grade classroom ( even with extra help) I am afraid she would be

overwhelmed and lost. Since she started in this collaborative classroom 2

years ago, she has expressed an unhappiness about being there and wanting

to come back to our town's middle school. I have been talking with people

and have been getting different opinions as to what would be best for

Meghan.

The special ed director in town feels that our town cannot properly service

Meghan that she should stay where she is. (which would only be available for

1 more year and then we would have to go somewhere else)

Her classroom teacher ( she is great) knows that the setting she is in is

not ideal and wants what is best for her. They are trying to mainstream her

into several classrooms but is has been a slow process and hasn't really

gotten off the ground except for music, art, and computer.

My sister, who is a 5th grade teacher feels, emotionally it is more

important for Meghan to come back to school in our town, where she can

reconnect with some of the friends she has lost by not attending school

here. She thinks that the sense of self, and self esteem are more of an

issues than academics at this point. She feels that the town should come up

with some way to service Meghan. Again, the special ed director disagrees.

I have an advocate who helped us with Meghan's placement in this

collaborative, at the time we thought it was the best place. She is in the

process of looking for other options.

My husband and I would love her to be a part of our town's education and be

able to join in High School activities. But, we are not confident that they

will provide the learning environment she needs. ( Especially since the

Special ed director does not believe or is unwilling to try to accomodate

Meghan)

Since, I have made Meghan aware that I am seriously considering bringing her

back to town, she had been expressing anxiety about leaving her teacher (

that she loves) . Now she says she will stay where she is, IF I want her

to. ( She has been so unhappy there, aside from her teacher)

My question is: Do I insist that the town develop some sort of program that

will accomodate her or do I stay with a program and teachers that have

experience in servicing students with disabilities such as Meghan's even

though I am afraid her self esteem is suffering?

, I know this is a tough one, but any thoughts you have about this

would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Joyce (mother to Keryn 23, 18, and Meghan 14)

----- Original Message -----

Parents in closing, know how much I hold your heart whenever I tell of

Khalid's story- it is with his blessing I share his life's experiences

of rewards and challenges.

Mustafa

Mom to Khalid 18, Jadd 10.7, Danya 13

[Guest guest]

Joyce,

You have a tough decision on your hands. If I were you, I would try to get

the school district to lay out ALL the options for placement.

Often a school district will act like there are only two choices for

placement when truthfully there are usually a variety of placement options.

Are there other schools in the area. I would look at all options (maybe take

your daughter to do the visits with you) and try to incorporate her wishes

as much as you can in the decision-making.

I remember when my mom came to me and said that the school was recommending

that I repeat 3rd grade instead of going onto 4th with my peers. She said

that she would ultimately leave the decision up to me. I told her that I

wanted to stay with my friends. In the end everything worked out for me.

Tricia Morin

North Carolina

Joyce Wrote:

Thank you for your thoughtful, caring response. I am so hopeful

that

Meghan will achieve the quality of life that Khalid has. He is truly an

inspiration to all of us.

My dilemma at the moment is whether or not to keep Meghan in a separate

classroom of kids who all have some kind of special needs. At first

glance

the other childrens' disabilities present as more severe and more obvious

than Meghans verbal apraxia. But along with the apraxia ( or is it part

of

it?) is word retreival, sequencing, memory for math facts issues and

being

able to be a self starter. She has a terrific memory for people and

events

but for school subjects not as good. She is in the " 8th grade " but her

work

level is somewhat below. She is due for her three year eval and I am

going

to get it done early so hopefully we can make better choices for next

year.

I feel like the perfect choice for school next year is not available.

While

I love the teacher and the way they approach the curriculum, the mix of

kids in the classroom is not a match for Meghan socially. Yet in a

typical

8th grade classroom ( even with extra help) I am afraid she would be

overwhelmed and lost. Since she started in this collaborative classroom 2

years ago, she has expressed an unhappiness about being there and wanting

to come back to our town's middle school. I have been talking with people

and have been getting different opinions as to what would be best for

Meghan.

The special ed director in town feels that our town cannot properly

service

Meghan that she should stay where she is. (which would only be available

for

1 more year and then we would have to go somewhere else)

Her classroom teacher ( she is great) knows that the setting she is in is

not ideal and wants what is best for her. They are trying to mainstream

her

into several classrooms but is has been a slow process and hasn't really

gotten off the ground except for music, art, and computer.

My sister, who is a 5th grade teacher feels, emotionally it is more

important for Meghan to come back to school in our town, where she can

reconnect with some of the friends she has lost by not attending school

here. She thinks that the sense of self, and self esteem are more of an

issues than academics at this point. She feels that the town should come

up

with some way to service Meghan. Again, the special ed director

disagrees.

I have an advocate who helped us with Meghan's placement in this

collaborative, at the time we thought it was the best place. She is in

the

process of looking for other options.

My husband and I would love her to be a part of our town's education and

be

able to join in High School activities. But, we are not confident that

they

will provide the learning environment she needs. ( Especially since the

Special ed director does not believe or is unwilling to try to accomodate

Meghan)

Since, I have made Meghan aware that I am seriously considering bringing

her

back to town, she had been expressing anxiety about leaving her teacher (

that she loves) . Now she says she will stay where she is, IF I want her

to. ( She has been so unhappy there, aside from her teacher)

My question is: Do I insist that the town develop some sort of program

that

will accomodate her or do I stay with a program and teachers that have

experience in servicing students with disabilities such as Meghan's even

though I am afraid her self esteem is suffering?

, I know this is a tough one, but any thoughts you have about this

would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Joyce (mother to Keryn 23, 18, and Meghan 14)

[Guest guest]

Joyce you are asking some very tough question. Tricia provided some

excellent advice in making sure the school provides you with all the

options -I can tell you however that based on your child's age and

history, there is a good chance they will not be that forthcoming

with you unless you have outside help from outside professionals -

medical, therapeutic, advocacy, legal etc. You would, as Tricia

says, be amazed at how many options magically appear then.

Each of us in this group can try to help you based on our own

experiences with our own children or the children that they work

with. Only those who know and care for Meghan have the answer for

what is best for her. is a very good friend of mine, and her

son Khalid is an inspiration to many of us. I know she was touched

by your message about Meghan and put much time and thought into

answering you. Being you are now asking such tough questions, and being

that I know and Khalid as friends, and as people I interviewed

extensively for The Late Talker book, I'm hoping I can help by

answering for her based on what I know. I'm sure from this

will be able to add more.

Khalid is a " true success story " as said by Deborah Norville for our

segment on Inside Edition

http://www.cherab.org/news/insideedition.html and here is a letter

written by Khalid when he was 13

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/success.html

Your questions are about placement -yet there is much we don't know

about Meghan's past which can help with answers for today. One

would be better able to know if aware of Meghan's abilities in all

areas including her school placements, her therapies, progress etc.

Preschool placement is different then school placement. Also -

preschool children are not at all aware of a " special needs "

preschool vs. a " normal " one. I do strongly believe that special

needs preschool placements are quite often more successful for our

children to get them up to speed then " normal " preschools -unless

the child just has a simple delay in speech. One needs to find a

preschool that has appropriate therapy and placement. School age

children -that's another story. I have a problem with the issue

that so many of our children are auto placed into a learning

disabled kindergarten class -why? And then when the transition to

the mainstream? First? Second? I also find it interesting that

historically -those parents who fought special needs kindergarten

placement (and in many cases including Khalid's didn't start

mainstream kindergarten until 6 years old vs. 5 years old) have

children in the mainstream today who are excelling. This is one

reason my husband Glenn and I have fought so hard to keep Tanner in

the mainstream for kindergarten (and since then didn't have to fight)

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

As you will read with Khalid's story as well -the fight it hardest

in the early years previous to our communication impaired children

being able to read and write at all or well. With time,

multisensory teaching and therapy, and belief -our children are able

to prove where they need to be once they have the opportunity to

develop alternative ways of communication -and have those chances to

excel in the mainstream. I will share what I know about Khalid and

placement.

When in his younger years in the school system, the school and

teachers had wanted to put Khalid into a placement outside of the

school like Meghans, and and her husband fought it and refused

to let that happen to him. They didn't want Khalid in the classes

they wanted to put him ever because as she told me -they knew in

their hearts that Khalid was capable of so much more than what they

believed him capable of back then. I recall saying that first

grade was the most difficult fight to keep Khalid in the

mainstream. I'm not at liberty to say what was said -but Khalid

himself recalls what one teacher said about him right in front of

him -not realizing that he was even capable of understanding her!

Today it's apparent that Khalid's Mom and Dad were right since as we

are all proud to say -Khalid is excelling in speech, school, social

abilities and all they had dreamed for Khalid. Khalid again, is my

inspiration for my son Tanner. But I wonder where Khalid would be

today if he was put in the disabled placement the school wanted to

put him in way back in first grade... just as I wonder the same for

my own son who continues to thrive in the mainstream. As I've

always quoted from that movie Stand and Deliver- " students rise to

the level of expectations " Part of the problem with raising a

speech impaired child is not their ability to be a good student, to

be intelligent, or even the years of speech therapy, it's fighting

the discrimination mainly placed on older children/teens and adults

that there is a cognitive deficit just because there is a speech

deficit. You talk about self esteem. If you read 's story -

first the school gave up on him, then his friends and family, then

he gave up on himself -and on life. Thank God he was able to pull

himself up and out of that downward spiral.

http://www.cherab.org/news/.html

As I just wrote in the article for The Writer magazine (January 2005

issue) " the average child with a speech impairment has average to

above average intelligence " . Why then the horrible stats for our

children? We need to be able to change this -we know from this

group that our children have remarkable memories and are capable of

so much more then what most even are aware of.

When you say Meghan is in 8th grade but is not working at that

level -what level is the class she is in? How could she be above

what she is taught and even more important, what is expected of her

and those she is in school with? Every child is different, just as

each school, teacher, classroom, and perhaps the placement outside

of the mainstream from kindergarten (?) on was and is the right

thing to do for Meghan's needs.

It is hard to find any references to children who were inappropriately schooled

most

of their life with others who are far more disabled outside of children

like older teen/adults

http://www.cherab.org/news/.html and of course who I

just mentioned http://www.cherab.org/news/.html I can tell

you that as a twenty something year old that told me that

Special Ed " ruined his life " That's powerful! He told me he was

" never taught anything. Never taught to read, to write, " and that

everyone gave up on him and made fun of him because of special ed. If you

want to speak with -please email me offlist and I'll contact

you to get you his number. He is now working with CHERAB advisors

Dr. a Tallal and Dr. Marty Burns and is doing so much better.

He is so much more understandable now. (and yes -both older

teen/adults who both have speech impairments " grew up " with apraxia,

a condition one overcomes but never outgrows, from early childhood -

an impairment of speech some now want to call " childhood apraxia of

speech " so that as all of our children grow up to teens and adults -

they are even more ostracized with that stupid name )

I have suggestions based on what has worked for many children like

Meghan. Outside tutoring if you can afford it to see if you can get

Meghan up to speed academically. Raising her confidence by Chicken

Soup for the Soul type stories of triumph over challenges.

I am sure that if you would like Khalid to email Meghan to encourage

her that she can make it in the mainstream he would be happy to. I

also am a true

believer that in your heart as Meghan's mom you know what is right

for her. Follow that voice, because that's the voice of love for

Meghan, which is louder than the voice of reason, and the voice of

doubt.

Here is an archive of mine that may help:

" I just had a great conversation with Dr. Rosenthal the other day.

All of you may want to start trying to put his research to practice.

Read this and believe it's true about your speech impaired child:

A child with any disability will compensate for this disability by

being stronger in other areas than normal. Due to this -if given

the chance, multisensory exposure, and belief in them -children that

have expressive speech problems may be better at reading and writing

than normal.

I know that is not what research shows....yet. But as those that

care for these children -believe it. It's in my opinion wiser to

believe this -than for one to assume they can judge a child's IQ and

receptive ability and memory by using verbal based means...which

happens all the time.

http://www.cherab.org/news/verbaldisabledtest.html

And besides -Dr. Rosenthal agrees with that point and thinks this

needs to be researched. Any graduate students out there I'll tell

you more about what he said. Email me at lisa@... lisa at

cherab.org

" For ethical reasons, the Oak School experiment only focused on

favorable or positive expectations and their impact on intellectual

competence, but it is reasonable to infer that unfavorable

expectations could also lead to a corresponding decrease in

performance. Often, these negative expectations are based on

appearances and other factors that have little to do with

actual intellectual ability "

http://www.facultydirectory.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/pub/public_individual.pl?faculty=534

" I knew then that 'w-a-t-e-r' meant the wonderful cool something

that was

flowing over my hand. That living word awakened my soul, gave it

light, hope,

joy, set it free! "

Helen Keller 1880-1968

American writer and lecturer

http://www.theglassceiling.com/biographies/bio20.htm

" Students rise to the level of expectations "

Escalante (portrayed in the 1985 film " Stand and Deliver)

http://www.geocities.com/powerscalif/PROJECT_6.html

You have some tough choices -but my hope is that in reading this -

you will help Meghan to stand and deliver.

=====

[Guest guest]

,

How wonderful to get an update on Kahlid. I can't believe he is 18 and 6'5 " .

Wow!!

Kahlid sounds like (and has always done so) such an inspirational and

spiritual person. It seems like his apraxia challenges have made him an even

more

wonderful person. It just seems that he is destined to do great things.

is taking classes at the community college - a small course load

with accomodations of textbooks on tape, a note take, and tests at the

disability services office. Her speech is obviously different and reading,

writing,

and talking all take her much more time than most. Socially, she is pretty

isolated but she is always a positive and happy person. I think for

she is more destined to do ordinary things that many would have believed not

possible.

I'm sure your other two kids are remarkable too. I hope you are well. Happy

Holidays!!

Beu - Columbus, Ohio

PS - told her story at the ApraxiaKids Conference - it is on their

website under family stories.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/1/04 2:05:12 PM, Jcerulo@... writes:

<< Since, I have made Meghan aware that I am seriously considering bringing

her

back to town, she had been expressing anxiety about leaving her teacher (

that she loves) . Now she says she will stay where she is, IF I want her

to. ( She has been so unhappy there, aside from her teacher)

My question is: Do I insist that the town develop some sort of program that

will accomodate her or do I stay with a program and teachers that have

experience in servicing students with disabilities such as Meghan's even

though I am afraid her self esteem is suffering?

, I know this is a tough one, but any thoughts you have about this

would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Joyce (mother to Keryn 23, 18, and Meghan 14)

>>

Joyce,

One strategy that my daughter and I used over the years is the good old " Pro

and Con List " . I think it is important when the kids are older that they be

invested in whatever the placement is. It does sound like putting together a

program locally is a big unknown so you really can't put that under pro or con

at this point.

Another strategy that has proved really effective is the mindset that when a

big placement/class/ etc is going to be tried - it be done a on trial basis.

Upfront and out in the open - I would say why I thought this would be positive

and important for my daughter and then say that after a 4-6 week period we

could all evaluate and decide if this makes sense. The one situation where this

proved especially useful was when I thought my daughter would benefit from a

computer software/business program at a career center. The teacher's initial

impression was that was a zilch and I was a relentless mother. When

I offered the trial basis, she wanted it put in writing. By the fall open

house, she said was just fine and I was the one who was so worried!!

It seems like every new milestone in the education process is so worrisome

and it is. One Mom reminded me after I had done all of the advocating (going

back and back and back) that I had done all I could. Also, it is important to

know that whatever the planning is - there will always be fine tuning. Face it

- we are demanding by the nature of our children's needs but that is the way

it is and it is nothing to apologize about.

Also, providing support on a private basis can be important too. My daughter

had a special ed tutor once a week while in public high school as well as a

private counselor/therapist.

Just a few thoughts! Good luck!!

Beu - Columbus, Ohio Mom to 22 CAS/etc. - going to the

community college in physical fitness/sports management - I have no idea what

kind of a job that will translate into but we'll know it when we see it!!

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your thoughts. Every little bit of insight helps. It

sounds like your daughter is doing well and offers encouragement to others.

We are still in the " exploring our options phase). Hopefully we will get

more information for the school soon. Thanks again.

Joyce

Re: [ ] Re: Older Children with Apraxia

> Joyce,

>

> One strategy that my daughter and I used over the years is the good old

" Pro

> and Con List " . I think it is important when the kids are older that they

be

> invested in whatever the placement is. It does sound like putting

together a

> program locally is a big unknown so you really can't put that under pro or

con

> at this point.

>

> Another strategy that has proved really effective is the mindset that when

a

> big placement/class/ etc is going to be tried - it be done a on trial

basis.

> Upfront and out in the open - I would say why I thought this would be

positive

> and important for my daughter and then say that after a 4-6 week period we

> could all evaluate and decide if this makes sense. The one situation

where this

> proved especially useful was when I thought my daughter would benefit from

a

> computer software/business program at a career center. The teacher's

initial

> impression was that was a zilch and I was a relentless mother.

When

> I offered the trial basis, she wanted it put in writing. By the fall open

> house, she said was just fine and I was the one who was so

worried!!

>

> It seems like every new milestone in the education process is so worrisome

> and it is. One Mom reminded me after I had done all of the advocating

(going

> back and back and back) that I had done all I could. Also, it is

important to

> know that whatever the planning is - there will always be fine tuning.

Face it

> - we are demanding by the nature of our children's needs but that is the

way

> it is and it is nothing to apologize about.

>

> Also, providing support on a private basis can be important too. My

daughter

> had a special ed tutor once a week while in public high school as well as

a

> private counselor/therapist.

>

> Just a few thoughts! Good luck!!

>

> Beu - Columbus, Ohio Mom to 22 CAS/etc. - going to the

> community college in physical fitness/sports management - I have no idea

what

> kind of a job that will translate into but we'll know it when we see it!!