RE: Bulging disk

[Guest guest]

: Vern had that disk problem. He swears that the leg pain I have is a sciatic nerve...I think you are on to something! hugs, ML who gets relief from the burn when she takes a tramadol for the leg pain

"Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul [mind, will and emotions] and healing to the bones." Proverbs 16:24

contribute to V. pain? A recent MRI showed I have this particular disk bulge. All the info I can find says it is usually associated with sciatic nerve pain, but thankfully I have no symptoms of that. I also have IC so I am trying to make sure there isn't any connection to the disk and or my bladder either... just trying to rule everything out!

[Guest guest]

So Tom,Do you see many vulvodynia patients?  Women with chronic burning vaginal pain?If so, do they get well and fully recovered from your therapy?  Please, let me know....Anne in TXHi and all,Sorry so long to answer, I've been swamped at work.The Pudendal nerve arises from the S2-3-4 nerve roots (two spinal levels down from the L5-S1.) However, since the spinal chord itself ends at L2 and the rest of the nerves travel south as the cauda equina, it is possible that an L5-S1 disc could put so much pressure on the  cauda that some or all of the S 2-3-4 nerve could be irritated.It is not the likeliest pathway though. The peudendal is very vulnerable at alcock's cannal as I have discussed at length in the past. The pubo and ilio-coccygeous muslce are collectively referred to as the Levator Ani muscle and it attatches to the pubic bone as well as the coccyx (tailbone.) The iliococcygeus eventually spreads out to attatch to and become the sacro-spinous ligament which makes up one of the borders of Alcock's cannal.(Hmmmmmm.) And, the levator ani is inervated by S3-4 spinal nerves. If in a case like 's, where a tailbone injury has been in place for years, the levator ani has been irritated for extended periods of time. This causes extended and extensive firing of the nerves that eventually make up the pudendal nerve and travel to the S2-3-4 nerve roots.  These nerves eventually travel to the spine and the neuro transmitters will saturate the area of the spinal chord at those levels.  This is called a facilitated segment and thus, very real potential for nerve firing in areas that are adjacent to the S2-3-4 roots exists. ( the pudendal nerve for example)So,....in English.. long term irritation of tailbone leads to increased firing of the nerves to the levator ani (pelvic floor pain) which then sends increased nerve input to the central nervous system which in turn, causes spread of the chemicals that transmit pain sensations to the  areas of the spinal chord not directly involved in the orriginal  dysfunction of the tailbone. And the result is.. the entire area becomes facilitated  to the pain and causes the brain to turn up the volume of pain signals.Emotional inter-relationship cannot help but contibute as this is such a personal and private area, and loaded with sensory nerves for sexual  pleasure. The more irritation on the talbone...>>> the more nerve firing>>> the more reflexively the muscles fire>>>> and further increase the irritation and pain in the distribution of those muscles involved.  Whew!  hope that helps and again sorry so late with the response.TKOPTwww.tomocklerpt.com. 

[Guest guest]

Anne, , and Tom: I am in McKinney, Texas. Where are you folks? hugs, ML

[Guest guest]

Anne, , and Tom: I am in McKinney, Texas. Where are you folks? hugs, ML

[Guest guest]

Anne, , and Tom: I am in McKinney, Texas. Where are you folks? hugs, ML

[Guest guest]

Hi HOllis,I am in Houston, actually just north in a suburb named Spring.Love,AnneAnne, , and Tom:  I am in McKinney, Texas.  Where are you folks?  hugs, ML  

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Tom, for your thorough answer.  I live in TX but am filing this information to consider for the future.  I really appreciate your point of view on this list!Warmly,Anne in tXHi Anne,To answer your questions, some yes and some no.We see 10-15 VV (or related disorders) patients per year. VV is not our only focus, we work mostly with pain issues  but all over the body including low back, hips, legs, ribs, neck and shoulders, migraines etc..One of the real problems is that most people don't live in our area and if they travel, they cannot see us more than once or twice.And since we don't take insurance as payment in full, many do not want to  pay out of pocket so they only go to therapists in network.We have had some amazing results in one or two visits, and we have had some that did not get all the way in 5.Our approach is both structural as well as psycho-emotional. If the patient is having issues of a histological nature then we cannot do much but prepare the tissues by corrercting all the asymmetries and getting all the muscles back to good resting tone. Then hope the histological / alergic problems can be overcome by normalized tone and improved blood flow.We also have the extra added benefit of having my associate, Sherry Battles LMT who was a full blow vulvadinia patient when we met and is now virtually pain free. She has so much compassion for VV sufferes that she literally drops what she is doing and gets on the phone and will talk as long as you want to talk and ask questions.  It was she who got me started with this VV group.Hope this helps.TKOPTwww.tomockerptAnne Andis wrote:So Tom,Do you see many vulvodynia patients?  Women with chronic burning vaginal pain?If so, do they get well and fully recovered from your therapy?  Please, let me know....Anne in TXHi and all,Sorry so long to answer, I've been swamped at work.The Pudendal nerve arises from the S2-3-4 nerve roots (two spinal levels down from the L5-S1.) However, since the spinal chord itself ends at L2 and the rest of the nerves travel south as the cauda equina, it is possible that an L5-S1 disc could put so much pressure on the  cauda that some or all of the S 2-3-4 nerve could be irritated.It is not the likeliest pathway though. The peudendal is very vulnerable at alcock's cannal as I have discussed at length in the past. The pubo and ilio-coccygeous muslce are collectively referred to as the Levator Ani muscle and it attatches to the pubic bone as well as the coccyx (tailbone.) The iliococcygeus eventually spreads out to attatch to and become the sacro-spinous ligament which makes up one of the borders of Alcock's cannal.(Hmmmmmm.) And, the levator ani is inervated by S3-4 spinal nerves. If in a case like 's, where a tailbone injury has been in place for years, the levator ani has been irritated for extended periods of time. This causes extended and extensive firing of the nerves that eventually make up the pudendal nerve and travel to the S2-3-4 nerve roots.  These nerves eventually travel to the spine and the neuro transmitters will saturate the area of the spinal chord at those levels.  This is called a facilitated segment and thus, very real potential for nerve firing in areas that are adjacent to the S2-3-4 roots exists. ( the pudendal nerve for example)So,....in English.. long term irritation of tailbone leads to increased firing of the nerves to the levator ani (pelvic floor pain) which then sends increased nerve input to the central nervous system which in turn, causes spread of the chemicals that transmit pain sensations to the  areas of the spinal chord not directly involved in the orriginal  dysfunction of the tailbone. And the result is.. the entire area becomes facilitated  to the pain and causes the brain to turn up the volume of pain signals.Emotional inter-relationship cannot help but contibute as this is such a personal and private area, and loaded with sensory nerves for sexual  pleasure. The more irritation on the talbone...>>> the more nerve firing>>> the more reflexively the muscles fire>>>> and further increase the irritation and pain in the distribution of those muscles involved.  Whew!  hope that helps and again sorry so late with the response.TKOPTwww.tomocklerpt.com. 

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Tom, for your thorough answer.  I live in TX but am filing this information to consider for the future.  I really appreciate your point of view on this list!Warmly,Anne in tXHi Anne,To answer your questions, some yes and some no.We see 10-15 VV (or related disorders) patients per year. VV is not our only focus, we work mostly with pain issues  but all over the body including low back, hips, legs, ribs, neck and shoulders, migraines etc..One of the real problems is that most people don't live in our area and if they travel, they cannot see us more than once or twice.And since we don't take insurance as payment in full, many do not want to  pay out of pocket so they only go to therapists in network.We have had some amazing results in one or two visits, and we have had some that did not get all the way in 5.Our approach is both structural as well as psycho-emotional. If the patient is having issues of a histological nature then we cannot do much but prepare the tissues by corrercting all the asymmetries and getting all the muscles back to good resting tone. Then hope the histological / alergic problems can be overcome by normalized tone and improved blood flow.We also have the extra added benefit of having my associate, Sherry Battles LMT who was a full blow vulvadinia patient when we met and is now virtually pain free. She has so much compassion for VV sufferes that she literally drops what she is doing and gets on the phone and will talk as long as you want to talk and ask questions.  It was she who got me started with this VV group.Hope this helps.TKOPTwww.tomockerptAnne Andis wrote:So Tom,Do you see many vulvodynia patients?  Women with chronic burning vaginal pain?If so, do they get well and fully recovered from your therapy?  Please, let me know....Anne in TXHi and all,Sorry so long to answer, I've been swamped at work.The Pudendal nerve arises from the S2-3-4 nerve roots (two spinal levels down from the L5-S1.) However, since the spinal chord itself ends at L2 and the rest of the nerves travel south as the cauda equina, it is possible that an L5-S1 disc could put so much pressure on the  cauda that some or all of the S 2-3-4 nerve could be irritated.It is not the likeliest pathway though. The peudendal is very vulnerable at alcock's cannal as I have discussed at length in the past. The pubo and ilio-coccygeous muslce are collectively referred to as the Levator Ani muscle and it attatches to the pubic bone as well as the coccyx (tailbone.) The iliococcygeus eventually spreads out to attatch to and become the sacro-spinous ligament which makes up one of the borders of Alcock's cannal.(Hmmmmmm.) And, the levator ani is inervated by S3-4 spinal nerves. If in a case like 's, where a tailbone injury has been in place for years, the levator ani has been irritated for extended periods of time. This causes extended and extensive firing of the nerves that eventually make up the pudendal nerve and travel to the S2-3-4 nerve roots.  These nerves eventually travel to the spine and the neuro transmitters will saturate the area of the spinal chord at those levels.  This is called a facilitated segment and thus, very real potential for nerve firing in areas that are adjacent to the S2-3-4 roots exists. ( the pudendal nerve for example)So,....in English.. long term irritation of tailbone leads to increased firing of the nerves to the levator ani (pelvic floor pain) which then sends increased nerve input to the central nervous system which in turn, causes spread of the chemicals that transmit pain sensations to the  areas of the spinal chord not directly involved in the orriginal  dysfunction of the tailbone. And the result is.. the entire area becomes facilitated  to the pain and causes the brain to turn up the volume of pain signals.Emotional inter-relationship cannot help but contibute as this is such a personal and private area, and loaded with sensory nerves for sexual  pleasure. The more irritation on the talbone...>>> the more nerve firing>>> the more reflexively the muscles fire>>>> and further increase the irritation and pain in the distribution of those muscles involved.  Whew!  hope that helps and again sorry so late with the response.TKOPTwww.tomocklerpt.com. 

[Guest guest]

Hi Anne,

To answer your questions, some yes and some no.

We see 10-15 VV (or related disorders) patients per year.

VV is not our only focus, we work mostly with pain issues but all over

the body including low back, hips, legs, ribs, neck and shoulders,

migraines etc..

One of the real problems is that most people don't live in our area and

if they travel, they cannot see us more than once or twice.

And since we don't take insurance as payment in full, many do not want

to pay out of pocket so they only go to therapists in network.

We have had some amazing results in one or two visits, and we have had

some that did not get all the way in 5.

Our approach is both structural as well as psycho-emotional.

If the patient is having issues of a histological nature then we cannot

do much but prepare the tissues by corrercting all the asymmetries and

getting all the muscles back to good resting tone. Then hope the

histological / alergic problems can be overcome by normalized tone and

improved blood flow.

We also have the extra added benefit of having my associate, Sherry

Battles LMT who was a full blow vulvadinia patient when we met and is

now virtually pain free. She has so much compassion for VV sufferes

that she literally drops what she is doing and gets on the phone and

will talk as long as you want to talk and ask questions. It was she

who got me started with this VV group.

Hope this helps.

TKOPT

www.tomockerpt

Anne Andis wrote:

So Tom,

Do you see many vulvodynia patients? Women with chronic burning

vaginal pain?

If so, do they get well and fully recovered from your therapy?

Please, let me know....

Anne in TX

Hi

and all,

Sorry so long to

answer, I've been swamped at work.

The Pudendal nerve

arises from the S2-3-4 nerve roots (two spinal levels down from the

L5-S1.) However, since the spinal chord itself ends at L2 and the rest

of the nerves travel south as the cauda equina, it is possible that an

L5-S1 disc could put so much pressure on the cauda that some or all of

the S 2-3-4 nerve could be irritated.

It is not the likeliest

pathway though. The peudendal is very vulnerable at alcock's cannal as

I have discussed at length in the past. The pubo and ilio-coccygeous

muslce are collectively referred to as the Levator Ani muscle and it

attatches to the pubic bone as well as the coccyx (tailbone.) The

iliococcygeus eventually spreads out to attatch to and become the

sacro-spinous ligament which makes up one of the borders of Alcock's

cannal.(Hmmmmmm.)

And, the levator ani is inervated by S3-4 spinal nerves.

If in a case like

's, where a tailbone injury has been in place for years, the

levator ani has been irritated for extended periods of time. This

causes extended and extensive firing of the nerves that eventually make

up the pudendal nerve and travel to the S2-3-4 nerve roots. These

nerves eventually travel to the spine and the neuro transmitters will

saturate the area of the spinal chord at those levels. This is called

a facilitated segment and thus, very real potential for nerve firing in

areas that are adjacent to the S2-3-4 roots exists. ( the pudendal

nerve for example)

So,....in English..

long term irritation of tailbone leads to increased firing of the

nerves to the levator ani (pelvic floor pain) which then sends

increased nerve input to the central nervous system which in turn,

causes spread of the chemicals that transmit pain sensations to the

areas of the spinal chord not directly involved in the orriginal

dysfunction of the tailbone. And the result is.. the entire area

becomes facilitated to the pain and causes the brain to turn up the

volume of pain signals.

Emotional

inter-relationship cannot help but contibute as this is such a personal

and private area, and loaded with sensory nerves for sexual pleasure.

The more irritation on

the talbone...>>> the more nerve firing>>> the more

reflexively the muscles fire>>>> and further increase the

irritation and pain in the distribution of those muscles involved.

Whew! hope that helps

and again sorry so late with the response.

TKOPT

www.tomocklerpt.com

..

[Guest guest]

ML,

I'm in the Cleveland Ohio area.

Tom Ockler P.T.

www.tomocklerpt.com

mladamsgte@... wrote:

Anne, , and Tom: I am in McKinney,

Texas. Where are you folks? hugs, ML