dee

[Guest guest]

Hi Dee:

I joined the support group for Lowdosenaltrexone (LDN) that Sandi had mentioned last week. I joined to see if it would be helpful for my daughter who has Crohn's.

Anyway, they have been discussing using it for Lyme disease which has been discussed a lot here.

I'm not sure about computer etiquette. If there is something interesting there that pertains to Lyme can I forward it here? Or is that not something allowed?

Sherri

[Guest guest]

thanks so much DEE. KimmiDeeTroll wrote: HI Kimmi... I'm not that aware of all those various things from your tests hon or have the time to check them all out one by one to see typical ranges. *smile* But am aware of the estrogen and testosterone 'typical' levels(and again NO one is typical) but there are ranges we hope we can fall into. Most likely that

paper you have probably shows those ranges I would think. I'll add something I've sent before about some E & T ranges... But just real quick at a glance I'd say your estradiol was somewhat low as even for a menopausal women it should be around at least 80 to100 or so to be beneficial (I'm talking w. adding E in HRT because without it it's often 30 or less... bare bones.) and I'm older than you hon and in menopause and my total T. is probably around 50 or so, so it seems your reading at 18 seems extremely low to 'me'..but that's my opinion hon. Anyway I'll just add it below and you can check it out yourself. One is from Dr. Jelovsek and the other from Dr. Vliet.. Sure

save me trying to explain it again, *grin* and my weary fingers, *chuckle* My ***notes are usually in brackets ( ) and in blue so fair warning this is a long one, also I've included 'two' various ranges (slightly different) from two different sources.....and hope you don't get confused, and remember all labs have their own ranges as well, so it all depends but here are some 'optimal' ranges to be strived for. (plus saliva ranges are totally different than blood levels too) Dee~ =============== HI all Hope these help ''Typical' pre-menopausal' hormone values<--(notice Pre- (before) menopause) assuming a standard 28 day cycle and always count day one as the very first day of your bleed. pre-menopausal ESTRADIOL DR. JELOVSEKS RANGE: Estradiol (17b) ranges from 25 - 500 pg/ml Follicular phase......... 25 - 75 pg/ml (first two weeks) counting day one as start of bleed and builds up to:) Ovulation ....200 - 500

pg/ml .........(mid cycle) day 14 Luteal phase....100 - 300 pg/ml ......(last two weeks) DR. ELIZABETH VLIETS RANGE FOR ESTRADIOL : Follicular phase........(days 1-14) up to 200 pg/ml (first two weeks) day one is start of bleed, first 4 days of this phase may be only 80-90 pg/ml when it's at it's lowest and on period.) Ovulation phase ...(day 14) 300-500 pg/ml (highest) Luteal phase...... ( days 15-28 ) 200-300 pg/ml E drops back as Progesterone is produced NOTE***(Blood serum tests for Estradiol should be drawn from any of days 1-4 of your bleeding period, (if you still have them) when estradiol is at its lowest and on about day 21 when progesterone is at its

highest. [Estradiol should be at 200-250 pg/ml on that day if you still menstruate, and drops quickly back to 80-90 pg/ml by day 28 (as per Vliet).] DT NOTE***(Shoot for a comparable ratio of estradiol to progesterone at both times of the month for best results. Levels below these ranges may result in increased health risks) ________________________________________________________________________ PROGESTERONE: (PRE-MENOPAUSAL) DR. R. JELOVSEKS P.RANGE Progesterone ranges from 0.3 - 60 ng/ml Follicular phase.................... less than 1 ng/ml (first two weeks)Ovulation luteal phase .........5 - 60 ng/ml (2nd two weeks) DR. ELIZABETH VLIETS P. RANGE: Follicular phase...... (days 1-14) 0.3- 0.9 ng/ml practically non existent (estrogen more dominant). Luteal phase............ (days 14-28) 15-30 ng/ml peaking around day 21 NOTE***(Almost 30 times the level of Progesterone from the first half to the Luteal phase, and with pregnancy it's about 15 times greater than even the Luteal phase. Also more common to have PMS,

moodiness, weight gain, *ouchies* with the increase in Progesterone. DT TESTOSTERONE: DR. R. JELOVSEKS RANGE: Total Testosterone ranges 20-80 ng/dlIt does not vary with the menstrual cycle. DR. ELIZABETH VLIETS RANGE: Total Testosterone: (for all ages) 40-60 ng/dl Free Testosterone should be approx. 1-2% of the

total, sometimes as high as 3%. T. does not vary with the menstrual cycle. NOTE ***(Though T. does vary morning to night, with morning being the highest levels) Levels below 30 ng/dl Total T. (Vliet says in her new T. book 'below' 20 of Total Testosterone are generally much too low to maintain your usual energy and libido..let alone the other benefits such as bone, muscles, mood, hair, libido, etc.) DT NOTE***(Regarding 'FREE TESTOSTERONE: 97-99% of a womans Testosterone is attached or binds to protein, called SHBG (known

as the Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, *a protein* and NOT a hormone, that binds), thus leaving only 1-3% available to act on tissue receptors. This is called the Free or unbound Testosterone (or estradiol) and is absolutely necessary for optimal performance, it's the 'active' portion of that hormone. DeeT KEEP IN MIND ALL THE ABOVE RANGES RELATE TO A PRE-MENOPAUSAL YOUNGER WOMAN This below would be for menopausal women, If you wanted to keep at a steady dose of the hormones and are on HRT it is suggested you take your hormones at the same time each day (or split them if they are the bioidentical ones like the estradiol or testosterone) to keep a more stable level and

these are ranges suggested to reach or aim for. Estradiol 50-100 pg/ml ------>( Some show that even much less...Many labs and physicians think this should be at a 'Minimum' range of 80-100 for menopausal women for 'optimal' performance, some even a bit higher for over all benefits,esp. bones. So don't be fooled if your doctor says your levels are 'normal' and in range for a menopausal woman.. that is NOT what you want, (I mean 'I' certainly wouldn't what is the lower typical range of a woman 'without' her hormones,and one doctor 'almost' tripped me up on that.) That would be for the average woman who is NOT on any type of hormone replacement and you can see how a person is losing their hormones and the benefits they

provide. It's like saying you have vision or hearing loss that is fine and in range for 'your' age. And todays women are living longer and longer and may have a good 30 to 40 yrs left after menopause and I want it to be quality. Progesterone less than 1 ng/ml ----->(is rarely even tested for in menopause and not necessary) Progesterone is only needed to get pregnant, if we're not, we shed that lining. Pro = for and Gest = gestation. Testosterone 40-60 ng/dl------> (this should also be of concern in menopause and often not high enough, Free unbound should be 1-3% of the total) One other thought is that if a woman is on estrogen

replacement alone that will further deplete her testosterone.. (and why I've always added it to my regimen) to keep me at 'my' normal T. levels. See above note for Testosterone same applies here. As you can see these ranges suggested to reach for for a menopausal women are more compatible with the follicular phase (first two weeks) of the menses in 'pre menopausal' women, which tends to have much less "hormonal" problems associated with it. One other note that a person should not be using only Estrogen for their HRT replacement...(or if one has had a hysterectomy) as adding E. alone can deplete or block our Testosterone even more. So it's suggested that both should be employed together and you need testing to

keep things balanced, because your T. levels may be increased considerably with the early stages of menopause, but.... that is because there is less Estrogen now to keep it balanced, so the T. may 'seem' to be exceptionally high, but it's still less than we'd normally have but now without E to keep it in control the readings may be higher. Why it's so so important to keep those in balance. NOTE***(For those who are wondering if they may be going into menopause, there is also the FSH test, (the Follicle stimulating hormone) to have done, so I added info on that as well.) DT FSH Blood Level Measurement This is the key test to determine whether or

not you are in menopause. A sample of your blood is taken to measure the levels of FSH -- follicle stimulating hormone -- in your blood. Because your FSH levels rise when your ovaries stop producing enough estrogen, 'high' FSH levels can signal that your body is entering menopause. Normal FSH, day 3 value is 3-20 mlU/ml FSH levels above 10 to 12 mlu/ml indicate that your ovaries are starting to fail. In other words, this means that you are in perimenopause -- the beginning stages of menopause when you notice physical symptoms, but before you have stopped having a period for a year, you have "diminished ovarian reserve" Higher FSH levels -- levels about 30 to

40 or above -- are usually taken to signal menopause or ovarian failure. You may even be getting periods with your FSH levels this high, but it still is a sign that your body isn't producing enough estrogen to maintain regular ovarian function. Keep in mind that you may end up with FSH levels that are well in the post-menopausal range, but still getting a period. This is one of the things that differentiates premature menopause or premature ovarian failure from "regular" menopause (i.e. menopause that occurs to older women after a full year without a period). So again, this hammers home the unfortunate fact that you may indeed be in premature menopause even if you're

still having periods. Once your FSH levels have reached a certain height for a period of time, it's highly unlikely that they'll drop back to premenopausal levels. How to tell if you're still fertile or not, even if you 'are' menstruating by taking the FSH test which is higher when going into menopause . DT FSH TEST LEVELS (follicle stimulating hormone) Normal Menstruating Follicular Phase 2.5 to

10.2 Midcycle Peak 3.4 to 33.4 Luteal Phase 1.5 to 9.1 Postmenopausal 23.0 to >116.3 -- Different labs may use different ranges in their testing. So if and when you do get tested, be sure to ask your doctor not only for your specific results, but also for the range used by the lab. (Usually it's on the

paper itself) Your doctor can not say by simply looking at you if you are experiencing a hormonal imbalance or not, or if you are menopausal or not. The only way to tell is to have the proper tests ordered for you and to be hormone tested. Not only should menopausal women get as a minimum the suggested testing, but ALL women, I feel, should obtain these as baseline hormone levels starting at age thirty to thirty-five. Having information about what your levels are when you are in the prime of your life and feeling your best is good information to have in your medical files for when you need HRT or wish to match 'your' own baseline levels down the road. Hormone testing should be done BEFORE there is a need so you know

YOUR 'normal' levels not some statistic. Remember there is NO such thing as 'normal' we're all different. Only serum analysis (a blood test not a saliva test ) can measure SEX BINDING HORMONE (SHBG) because saliva testing can not measure proteins. Do not get confused that SHBG is a hormone because of the word hormone is in its title. SHBG is not a hormone. SHBG is a protein. SHBG is the principle protein that regulates and 'binds' the hormones together leaving just a small percentage (1% to 5%) free and unbound to be 'active'. Saliva testing only measures hormones, it can not measure proteins. You can spit out hormones but you cannot spit out proteins. High SHBG levels also plays a possible role in the development of endometriosis by the way. If one is menopausal it doesn't matter what time of the month hormone levels are checked. (unless already on 'natural' bio-identical HRT) For instance if you took your hormones in the early AM and weren't tested till late that evening, they'd be totally different than if tested soon after you took them. It's often suggested to split your dosage every 12 hrs to keep it more balanced & stable for the day. The natural bioidenticals are so natural they can leave the system fairly fast. Not so with the Premarin etc... that may take 3-4 months to be eliminated even after you stop using it. Not good. Hope this helps, and I know it's got to sound confusing and once again just a reminder that this is what "I" found out through much diligent research and only 'my' thoughts

and opinions and my own experience. Hugs Dee DTrollcboss ==================================== Re: to DEE or HOLLIS (back to dee or anyone)my hormone tests Posted by: "k.hope" khope1 khope1 Date: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:15 am ((PST))ok...here are my labs. these were taken on day 21 of cycle through quest-i was off HRT for 3 months when these were taken. Im 33 and still have all my girly parts glucose fasting 82 progesterone 15.7 free t4 1.0 free t3 286 tsh 2.99 estradiol

77 dhea sulfate 64 ferritin 31 insulin 6 testosterone total 18 testosterone free 1.4 t free % .75 vit D 25-oh total 47 vit d 25-oh D3 39 vit d 25-oh D2 8 Let me know what you think. Thanks! Kimmi

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