Re: ALL ABOUT PROGESTERONE

[Guest guest]

> Janie - thanks for posting this as it is very informative. I

>also agree with - totally confusing. is right about

>hormone supplements reacting differently over time and for each

>individual. But with so many overlapping symptoms, how do we

>determine the true cause?

All the above is exactly why I am wondering about doing nothing, or

close to nothing by using a small amount of progesterone.

I suspect that there have been many women ahead of us who allowed

meno to be meno, and had no problems.

Granted, we have estrogen issues now in our foods that our mothers

and grandmothers may not have had. And because of that, the last

thing I want to use right now is estrogen. But....I also wonder about

the real reason HRT and subsequent treatments have come into being in

the first place!!! Wasn't meno presented as something horrible?? And

how much do the pharmaceuticals have an interest in all of thinking

we HAVE to have HRT in some form or another....

So..for the time being, I am using the least invasive treatment as

possible...I may need to do something different in the future as I

move more into meno...but time will tell...

Janie

[Guest guest]

> Janie - thanks for posting this as it is very informative. I

also agree

> with - totally confusing. is right about hormone

supplements

> reacting differently over time and for each individual. But with

so many

> overlapping symptoms, how do we determine the true cause? Do we

need

> estrogen or progesterone or adrenal support, etc.? My new

PCP wants

> to send me to ob-gyn for hormone testing, but are they the most

> knowledgeable? They are the so-called specialists that put me

on

> synthetic HRT 15 years ago after my hysterectomy. Don't endos

handle

> that stuff, too, since all these hormones are so

interrelated? I'm

> experimenting with the progesterone cream now to see if it helps

> anything..... sigh.........

> ... joan

have you read Suzanne Somers new book, The Sexy Years...she explains

this...she says the best doctors to go to about this are endos who

speicalize in anti-aging medicine or in bioidentical hormones...I

have not found my gyne to be of any help...but my holistic MD is.

However, I have a friend with a gyne who is knowledgable in the

testing for and use of bio-identical hormone replacement. (A woman,

of course A new clinic has opened up here in chicago dedicated

to sexual health and bio-identical hormones for men and women. I say

if the progesterone does it for you - fantastic...it also did it for

me - surpassed all my expectations - for 3-1/2 years...but the time

came it no longer did the trick for me. I stopped feeling well. I

have a doctor who, like with thyroid and adrenals, goes very much by

how a patients feels with something and not as much by njumbers as

much as hormone levels. He goes with the smallest doses possible.

[Guest guest]

> Janie - thanks for posting this as it is very informative. I

also agree

> with - totally confusing. is right about hormone

supplements

> reacting differently over time and for each individual. But with

so many

> overlapping symptoms, how do we determine the true cause? Do we

need

> estrogen or progesterone or adrenal support, etc.? My new

PCP wants

> to send me to ob-gyn for hormone testing, but are they the most

> knowledgeable? They are the so-called specialists that put me

on

> synthetic HRT 15 years ago after my hysterectomy. Don't endos

handle

> that stuff, too, since all these hormones are so

interrelated? I'm

> experimenting with the progesterone cream now to see if it helps

> anything..... sigh.........

> ... joan

have you read Suzanne Somers new book, The Sexy Years...she explains

this...she says the best doctors to go to about this are endos who

speicalize in anti-aging medicine or in bioidentical hormones...I

have not found my gyne to be of any help...but my holistic MD is.

However, I have a friend with a gyne who is knowledgable in the

testing for and use of bio-identical hormone replacement. (A woman,

of course A new clinic has opened up here in chicago dedicated

to sexual health and bio-identical hormones for men and women. I say

if the progesterone does it for you - fantastic...it also did it for

me - surpassed all my expectations - for 3-1/2 years...but the time

came it no longer did the trick for me. I stopped feeling well. I

have a doctor who, like with thyroid and adrenals, goes very much by

how a patients feels with something and not as much by njumbers as

much as hormone levels. He goes with the smallest doses possible.

[Guest guest]

> Janie - thanks for posting this as it is very informative. I

also agree

> with - totally confusing. is right about hormone

supplements

> reacting differently over time and for each individual. But with

so many

> overlapping symptoms, how do we determine the true cause? Do we

need

> estrogen or progesterone or adrenal support, etc.? My new

PCP wants

> to send me to ob-gyn for hormone testing, but are they the most

> knowledgeable? They are the so-called specialists that put me

on

> synthetic HRT 15 years ago after my hysterectomy. Don't endos

handle

> that stuff, too, since all these hormones are so

interrelated? I'm

> experimenting with the progesterone cream now to see if it helps

> anything..... sigh.........

> ... joan

have you read Suzanne Somers new book, The Sexy Years...she explains

this...she says the best doctors to go to about this are endos who

speicalize in anti-aging medicine or in bioidentical hormones...I

have not found my gyne to be of any help...but my holistic MD is.

However, I have a friend with a gyne who is knowledgable in the

testing for and use of bio-identical hormone replacement. (A woman,

of course A new clinic has opened up here in chicago dedicated

to sexual health and bio-identical hormones for men and women. I say

if the progesterone does it for you - fantastic...it also did it for

me - surpassed all my expectations - for 3-1/2 years...but the time

came it no longer did the trick for me. I stopped feeling well. I

have a doctor who, like with thyroid and adrenals, goes very much by

how a patients feels with something and not as much by njumbers as

much as hormone levels. He goes with the smallest doses possible.

[Guest guest]

This has been interesting. I guess deep down, I don't want to take

hormones natural or not and think menopause is a natural thing for

women. What's so bad about a warm (or hot?) flash, anyway? LOL. But

like said, sometimes things come up that make us use the

imperfect tools that are out there. I had all my hormones tested

recently, and the thing that sticks out the most is my lowish

testosterone, (and low libido, and loss of responsiveness) so I am

treating that because it is important to me--but I have also read

that estrogen and progesterone contrtibute to libido-- so who

knows?. I am a little worried because I read testosterone is a

precursor to estrogen, and I have been trying to avoid that for a

few years, because we are all so estrogen dominant (???)

In the past I would find someone whose philosophy felt right to me,

and try that out. I did that with Dr. Lee. But now that I have

been diagnosed with hypothyroid I feel much less willing to do

that. I think I have been low thyroid for a loooonnnngg time, and

all my " female hormone " problems I had in my youth and more recent

past I think were probably much more related to my thyroid. Since I

have been pushing harder for appropriate treatment, I have been

reading so much more (and I thought I read a lot before!) and what

bothers me is how the various experts claim that their way is THE

way and they can have such opposing points of view. You have to

become an extremely critical reader. Too bad we all don't get paid

to try out and analyze these ideas! So much of it does depend on

each woman's personal make-up, how she eats, what exposures she has

had over her life, etc.

When I read about the idea of balancing replacement estrogen with

progesterone according to Schwarzbein and making a period come after

one was menopausal, I just said to myself, NO WAY! I am so looking

forward to this being DONE! But who knows how I will feel when I

get there (I am 49).

R.

> >>>>>I suspect that there have been many women ahead of us who

allowed

> meno to be meno, and had no problems.

>

> Yes, Janie. Like your example, my mother also never took

any hormone

> supplements, nor her mother. Neither did her sister, my Aunt,

who, like

> me, had a hysterectomy at 40. BUT..... none of them suffered

from hot

> flashes like I did, either......

>

> Gosh...... we learn so much....... but I still don't know what to

do about

> so many of these health issues.

> ... joan

[Guest guest]

This has been interesting. I guess deep down, I don't want to take

hormones natural or not and think menopause is a natural thing for

women. What's so bad about a warm (or hot?) flash, anyway? LOL. But

like said, sometimes things come up that make us use the

imperfect tools that are out there. I had all my hormones tested

recently, and the thing that sticks out the most is my lowish

testosterone, (and low libido, and loss of responsiveness) so I am

treating that because it is important to me--but I have also read

that estrogen and progesterone contrtibute to libido-- so who

knows?. I am a little worried because I read testosterone is a

precursor to estrogen, and I have been trying to avoid that for a

few years, because we are all so estrogen dominant (???)

In the past I would find someone whose philosophy felt right to me,

and try that out. I did that with Dr. Lee. But now that I have

been diagnosed with hypothyroid I feel much less willing to do

that. I think I have been low thyroid for a loooonnnngg time, and

all my " female hormone " problems I had in my youth and more recent

past I think were probably much more related to my thyroid. Since I

have been pushing harder for appropriate treatment, I have been

reading so much more (and I thought I read a lot before!) and what

bothers me is how the various experts claim that their way is THE

way and they can have such opposing points of view. You have to

become an extremely critical reader. Too bad we all don't get paid

to try out and analyze these ideas! So much of it does depend on

each woman's personal make-up, how she eats, what exposures she has

had over her life, etc.

When I read about the idea of balancing replacement estrogen with

progesterone according to Schwarzbein and making a period come after

one was menopausal, I just said to myself, NO WAY! I am so looking

forward to this being DONE! But who knows how I will feel when I

get there (I am 49).

R.

> >>>>>I suspect that there have been many women ahead of us who

allowed

> meno to be meno, and had no problems.

>

> Yes, Janie. Like your example, my mother also never took

any hormone

> supplements, nor her mother. Neither did her sister, my Aunt,

who, like

> me, had a hysterectomy at 40. BUT..... none of them suffered

from hot

> flashes like I did, either......

>

> Gosh...... we learn so much....... but I still don't know what to

do about

> so many of these health issues.

> ... joan

[Guest guest]

> When I read about the idea of balancing replacement estrogen with

> progesterone according to Schwarzbein and making a period come

after

> one was menopausal, I just said to myself, NO WAY! I am so looking

> forward to this being DONE! But who knows how I will feel when I

> get there (I am 49).

>

> R.

- the thing I am trying to figure out is what if a woman has

had a hysterectomy? of course she can't get a period...but I am

certain something can be done to make her comfortable and feel well.

No - menopause is not a disease...and women don't generally go to the

doctor saying " HELP! my period isn't coming any more!! " They go

because the symptoms sometimes become unbearable and the pharma

companies have made meds to try and quell those troublesome

symptoms. but they aren't good for our health..they create as many

problems in women as the symptoms you get rid of..now you have

diabetes or stroke instead of a hot flash. I always looked forward

to that time of life, because my Mom and sister said they felt so

much more alive after the change. My doctor has spoken with

Schwartzbein, Brownstein and with Berman and has said

that some women do well with the cycling of the progesterone and

others either don't like it (having the period again) or don't do

well on that regimen. There are other options - But like when ANY

hormone is off - thyroid, one of the many adrenal hormones, insulin

production, etc. the imbalances can make us feel pretty darn bad and

really ruin the quality of our lives. Granted, the sex hormones are

secondary hormones and so, it will not lead to death if we are

severely deficient in any of them. it will just impact our quality

of life. years ago, they say it is to be expected that a woman's

thyroid hormones will drop after menopause...I am not willing to

accept that. I am also not willing to believe that we know all we

are ever going to know about female hormones - I think the testing

leaves a lot to be desired for one thing. I know people who have been

pronounced in menopause before they have ever missed a period and

others who haven't had a period in years, not sleeping and flashing

all over the place and are told they are not in menopause...I have

seen other test results that make no sense. Better to use how a

woman feels as a gauge, with test results as a rough guidline.

Estrogen gives us energy...I don't look at it as the enemy - it is

what makes me a woman and it really does have protective benefits in

its natural form...but I feel progesterone is the first line of

defense when our female homrones are acting up - be it a younger

woman with terrible PMS or going into the change. MOST American

women can benefit from some supplemntation of progesterone, but not

all. I am going to continue to research this until I have some good

answers that make sense to me and bear out in my own experience. I

have learned out never to say never...her I am with a period again

and feeling fantastic. I never had such wonderful cycles before.

But - for a woman with fibroids, it probably would not be a good idea

to take estrogen. I am on half as much estrogen as the doctor

expected I would need - I startd cycling the progesterone on my own

and he was amazed I began to get a period again....he feels it is

because my own estrogen level is naturally high. so - it's a work in

progress here...but I would never recommend it to someone who is

feeling well, just like I wouldn't give thyroid to someone with

normal levels or insulin to someone who didn't need it.

[Guest guest]

> In the past I would find someone whose philosophy felt right to

>me, and try that out.

Yup. Me, too. Over a ten year period, I have done the following:

Birth control pills to control the fatigue I got with every period,

then HRT for the same reason,

then Bi-est/progesterone,

then Oestragel alone,

then back to HRT,

THEN....when I finally picked up Dr. Lee's book and read it earlier

this year, I switched to natural progesterone.

Sigh.

The latter I like, so far, because it's the least.

And in all that, it was ARMOUR which changed my life around. LOL.

Janie

[Guest guest]

> In the past I would find someone whose philosophy felt right to

>me, and try that out.

Yup. Me, too. Over a ten year period, I have done the following:

Birth control pills to control the fatigue I got with every period,

then HRT for the same reason,

then Bi-est/progesterone,

then Oestragel alone,

then back to HRT,

THEN....when I finally picked up Dr. Lee's book and read it earlier

this year, I switched to natural progesterone.

Sigh.

The latter I like, so far, because it's the least.

And in all that, it was ARMOUR which changed my life around. LOL.

Janie

[Guest guest]

> In the past I would find someone whose philosophy felt right to

>me, and try that out.

Yup. Me, too. Over a ten year period, I have done the following:

Birth control pills to control the fatigue I got with every period,

then HRT for the same reason,

then Bi-est/progesterone,

then Oestragel alone,

then back to HRT,

THEN....when I finally picked up Dr. Lee's book and read it earlier

this year, I switched to natural progesterone.

Sigh.

The latter I like, so far, because it's the least.

And in all that, it was ARMOUR which changed my life around. LOL.

Janie

[Guest guest]

> Better to use how a woman feels as a gauge, with test results as a

>rough guidline.

BRAVO!! True with female hormones, true with thyroid. Janie

[Guest guest]

> Better to use how a woman feels as a gauge, with test results as a

>rough guidline.

BRAVO!! True with female hormones, true with thyroid. Janie

[Guest guest]

> Better to use how a woman feels as a gauge, with test results as a

>rough guidline.

BRAVO!! True with female hormones, true with thyroid. Janie

[Guest guest]

> >>What's so bad about a warm (or hot?) flash, anyway? LOL<<

I used to say the same thing...I think we all believe that we will

breeze thru it. Until it happens a few times. what I have found

happened with my hot flashes was that out of nowhere, I would get so

warm/hot I felt like I was going to pass out....meanwhile, I would

get weak in the knees and all the strength would go out of my

legs...as this was happening my mind would go totally blank and if I

was talking to anyone, I wished they would disappear and leave me

alone, if they continued to expect any kind of acknowledgment or

response form me, the irritated the heck out of me LOL...then I would

have the grand finale: breaking out into a huge sweat - the mother of

all sweats! where it seemed as though someone had thrown a few

hundred gallons of water on you....sudddenly, your hair is drenched,

sheets of water coming down your face, you are dripping, cloths wet,

make-up gone, and you begin to FREEZE like there is no tomorrow.

You pray nobody noticed...lol This happens in the space of about 5

minutes...wait and see just how long 5 minutes can be!! But you

soon find out that the hot flashes are really the least of the

discomforts that go along with estrogen depletion..the sleepless

nights, the night sweats, the wandering around without sleep day

after day for weeks or months on end, all wrung out is what really

wears you down. Luckily - not every woman experiences this - so it's

best to wait and see if you are one of the lucky ones before worrying

about the next step, which may never have to be taken.

[Guest guest]

> Great description of hot flashes, . I sometimes had to

walk out

> in the middle of meetings because I felt like I was going to

faint. Very

> embarrassing.

> ...joan

My older sister too...and now, at nearly 70 she finds she STILL has

hot flashes, although not as often..poor thing.

[Guest guest]

> >>>>>now a small amount of Progesterone cream is all I use, but I

> DO still have many hot flashes and night sweats.

>

> So....... ............ how do we get rid of these darn hot

flashes?

> Move to the Arctic?

>

> joan

I am taking this over to my hormones group, because probably this

isn't the place for the discussion...but you might try some estriol

cream - can be gotten OTC - not at store, but on the net - and some

women have had very good success with it...Dr. Lee raves about it

in " What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Breast Cancer " ...very

good stuff.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WmnsHormones

[Guest guest]

> >>>>>now a small amount of Progesterone cream is all I use, but I

> DO still have many hot flashes and night sweats.

>

> So....... ............ how do we get rid of these darn hot

flashes?

> Move to the Arctic?

>

> joan

I am taking this over to my hormones group, because probably this

isn't the place for the discussion...but you might try some estriol

cream - can be gotten OTC - not at store, but on the net - and some

women have had very good success with it...Dr. Lee raves about it

in " What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Breast Cancer " ...very

good stuff.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/WmnsHormones

[Guest guest]

> I think I might be having mini-hot flashes at night. I wake up and

feel too hot, but not that bad. Sometimes a little sweat. I am wide

awake so I get up, walk around a bit to cool off...which doesn't

work. Then I realize that the AC is on and hubby has covers up. I'm

tired so I lay back down, but cannot sleep, still too hot with covers

off. Suddenly I feel chilled, pull up the covers, and easily fall

asleep. Could that be a mini hotflash?

>

> Roxanna

Yes...most women seem to experience them at night...maybe because the

additional stress isn't there, as when we are awake and out and

about is what makes them " mini " .

[Guest guest]

> I think I might be having mini-hot flashes at night. I wake up and

feel too hot, but not that bad. Sometimes a little sweat. I am wide

awake so I get up, walk around a bit to cool off...which doesn't

work. Then I realize that the AC is on and hubby has covers up. I'm

tired so I lay back down, but cannot sleep, still too hot with covers

off. Suddenly I feel chilled, pull up the covers, and easily fall

asleep. Could that be a mini hotflash?

>

> Roxanna

Yes...most women seem to experience them at night...maybe because the

additional stress isn't there, as when we are awake and out and

about is what makes them " mini " .

[Guest guest]

> I think I might be having mini-hot flashes at night. I wake up and

feel too hot, but not that bad. Sometimes a little sweat. I am wide

awake so I get up, walk around a bit to cool off...which doesn't

work. Then I realize that the AC is on and hubby has covers up. I'm

tired so I lay back down, but cannot sleep, still too hot with covers

off. Suddenly I feel chilled, pull up the covers, and easily fall

asleep. Could that be a mini hotflash?

>

> Roxanna

Yes...most women seem to experience them at night...maybe because the

additional stress isn't there, as when we are awake and out and

about is what makes them " mini " .

[Guest guest]

> Has it been found that the way we experience menopause is usually

familial in nature? As in like mother like daughter?

>

> HypoT runs in families, as I believe hypoA does too....whether that

is for genetic physiologic reasons, learned behavior, or genetic

behaviors, I don't know. But I can see all my hypoA problems as a

mixture of both my Dad's and my Mom's hypoA.

>

> Roxanna

I don't believe they established a familial link....rather one where,

because of enviromnmental pollutants, additives in our food and

chemicals in our water (to name a few) have impacted our healthy

hormonal ability to deal with the stress of declining estrogen in an

easy manner - this and the fact these pollutants have leeched away

our natural progesterone...but then there have always been women who

had a hard time with it. My Mom had a very easy, orderly menopause,

but she (born in 1905 and had me when she was 45) grew up with

natural spring water, natural food without additives or dyes and

herbal remedies for illness...never needed to see a doctor in her

life until shortly before her death. this type of lifestyle, as well

as the diets of Asian women seems to give women a much easier time of

it. But there (so far) do not seem to be any absolutes in

determining what's going to happen when a particular woman enters

this time of life - or how her body will deal with it.

[Guest guest]

> Has it been found that the way we experience menopause is usually

familial in nature? As in like mother like daughter?

>

> HypoT runs in families, as I believe hypoA does too....whether that

is for genetic physiologic reasons, learned behavior, or genetic

behaviors, I don't know. But I can see all my hypoA problems as a

mixture of both my Dad's and my Mom's hypoA.

>

> Roxanna

I don't believe they established a familial link....rather one where,

because of enviromnmental pollutants, additives in our food and

chemicals in our water (to name a few) have impacted our healthy

hormonal ability to deal with the stress of declining estrogen in an

easy manner - this and the fact these pollutants have leeched away

our natural progesterone...but then there have always been women who

had a hard time with it. My Mom had a very easy, orderly menopause,

but she (born in 1905 and had me when she was 45) grew up with

natural spring water, natural food without additives or dyes and

herbal remedies for illness...never needed to see a doctor in her

life until shortly before her death. this type of lifestyle, as well

as the diets of Asian women seems to give women a much easier time of

it. But there (so far) do not seem to be any absolutes in

determining what's going to happen when a particular woman enters

this time of life - or how her body will deal with it.