Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Hi Alyssa, This is Elaine's protocol for constipation. Hope it helps you See: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.org/faq/constipation.htm Take care, Pat Check all of your email inboxes from anywhere on the web. Try the new Email Toolbar now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 > Hi all, > > I'm looking for some advice and info. For the past week or two, I've > been having constipation. I'll go for two days without pooping, my > stomach will get huge and I'll be able to feel my intestines bulging, > and then on the third day I'll poop about four times. The logs are > formed, no sign of blood, little mucous if any, and only a little > constipated looking (aka lumpy, like hard gumballs; sorry for TMI). It > doesn't seem normal though since I'm not going on a regular basis. At > this point I'm not TOO too worried, I'm just glad I don't have D, but > I'd appreciate all of your input!!! LOL! That's progress. You are probably having some changes to your gut environment slowing you down, but you're trajectory is in the right direction overall. It is quite normative to go through this stage after there has been some die-off or during die-off, which is what I was suspecting that nausea you recently had was (which you tried to pin to the avocado.) Keep eating beneficial yogurt and eat softer foods, purees, etc, your green smoothies, cooked zucchini, lots of fluids, etc., during this stage. Or if it is really uncomfortable during the second day, you could try a little of the constipation protocol, to see if that helps things along. If I am correct, this should normalize soonish. If not, the constipation protocol and there is also Miralax. Mara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Mara, Thanks so much! Reading this really helped get my hopes back up, and reassured me that this is pretty normal! I will try eating my fruits and veggies cooked if it isn't in a green smoothie and see if that helps any. I was wondering: I've been eating raw cantaloupe and cucumber, both of which seem pretty mild and soft as far as fiber goes. Is their fiber less irritating than other more abrasive things, like raw carrots or things of the sort? Or should I avoid raw things all together unless it's blended? I know I can't necessarily assume that their fiber is less irritating, so I was looking for some opinions of others. Again, thanks!Alyssa> Hi all,>> I'm looking for some advice and info. For the past week or two, I've> been having constipation. I'll go for two days without pooping, my> stomach will get huge and I'll be able to feel my intestines bulging,> and then on the third day I'll poop about four times. The logs are> formed, no sign of blood, little mucous if any, and only a little> constipated looking (aka lumpy, like hard gumballs; sorry for TMI). It> doesn't seem normal though since I'm not going on a regular basis. At> this point I'm not TOO too worried, I'm just glad I don't have D, but> I'd appreciate all of your input!!!LOL!That's progress. You are probably having some changes toyour gut environment slowing you down, but you're trajectory isin the right direction overall. It is quite normative to go throughthis stage after there has been some die-off or during die-off,which is what I was suspecting that nausea you recently hadwas (which you tried to pin to the avocado.)Keep eating beneficial yogurt and eat softer foods, purees,etc, your green smoothies, cooked zucchini, lots of fluids, etc.,during this stage. Or if it is really uncomfortable during thesecond day, you could try a little of the constipation protocol,to see if that helps things along.If I am correct, this should normalize soonish. If not, theconstipation protocol and there is also Miralax.Mara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Well, cucumber is fine but cantaloupe has a lot of sugar, so that is one thing to be careful about - eat only moderate amounts. It's thesugar that trigger the bacteria that in turn trigger the inflammation. Lots of sugar early on can set up a 3 month flare. MaraMara, Thanks so much! Reading this really helped get my hopes back up, and reassured me that this is pretty normal! I will try eating my fruits and veggies cooked if it isn't in a green smoothie and see if that helps any. I was wondering: I've been eating raw cantaloupe and cucumber, both of which seem pretty mild and soft as far as fiber goes. Is their fiber less irritating than other more abrasive things, like raw carrots or things of the sort? Or should I avoid raw things all together unless it's blended? I know I can't necessarily assume that their fiber is less irritating, so I was looking for some opinions of others. Again, thanks!Alyssa> Hi all,>> I'm looking for some advice and info. For the past week or two, I've> been having constipation. I'll go for two days without pooping, my> stomach will get huge and I'll be able to feel my intestines bulging,> and then on the third day I'll poop about four times. The logs are> formed, no sign of blood, little mucous if any, and only a little> constipated looking (aka lumpy, like hard gumballs; sorry for TMI). It> doesn't seem normal though since I'm not going on a regular basis. At> this point I'm not TOO too worried, I'm just glad I don't have D, but> I'd appreciate all of your input!!!LOL!That's progress. You are probably having some changes toyour gut environment slowing you down, but you're trajectory isin the right direction overall. It is quite normative to go throughthis stage after there has been some die-off or during die-off,which is what I was suspecting that nausea you recently hadwa! s (which you tried to pin to the avocado.)Keep eating beneficial yogurt and eat softer foods, purees,etc, your green smoothies, cooked zucchini, lots of fluids, etc.,during this stage. Or if it is really uncomfortable during thesecond day, you could try a little of the constipation protocol,to see if that helps things along.If I am correct, this should normalize soonish. If not, theconstipation protocol and there is also Miralax.Mara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 > > I'm looking for some advice and info. Alyssa, not knowing your ailment and how long you've been on the diet make it difficult to provide advice. > > Well, cucumber is fine but cantaloupe has a lot of sugar, so that is > one thing to be careful about - eat only moderate amounts. It's the > sugar that trigger the bacteria that in turn trigger the inflammation. Basicially true except there are a few steps in the middle: - unwanted bacteria -- let's say Klebsiella pneumoniae -- feed on branched polysaccharides (starch) - in order to debranch the starch Kp produces an enzyme (pullulanase) - during the enzyme production a protein is also secreted - this [foreign] protein is considered an antigen and your body produces an antibody to attack it - this protein just so happens to resemble the protein in the collagen of the intestines - the antibodies don't know any better so they attack this protein too (molecular mimicry, autoimmune reaction) - inflammation, ulcerations, blood, mucous, diarrhea, pain, etc., are the result My Theory: - Kp can probably live for a good long while (3-4 months?) with very little to eat - when starch hasn't been available for a while it probably feeds on undigested disaccharides if available - if disaccharides aren't available it probably feeds on monosaccharides for a while - eventually it gives up and goes dormant for a good long while -- perhaps a year? - with any luck your gut heals, a healthy population of gut flora is established and Kp, if still present, is kept in check > Lots of sugar early on can set up a 3 month flare. You're probably going to have it anyway but, yeah, I agree 100% that sugary fruit should be avoided for the first year or so. > > See: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.org/faq/constipation.htm I'm sure y'all would've figured it out but here's the corrected URL: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.org/faq/constipation.html -- Cheers, DF in MA UC June '07 SCD Nov '08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Sorry, I guess you're right. I have UC and have been on a not-quite intro SCD for about a month. I've been doing better diet-wise, on the intro except for more fruit and honey then I should be having and the occasional nut-baked good. I now am out of constipation and am having diarrhea and very mild cramps. Last night I got very nauseaus and ended up throwing up. Not fun. Anyways, I probably just answered my own question by stating the things that I'm eating that aren't on the intro diet. I'm just so stressed because everybody here is telling me to cut out raw things, and fruit, and honey, and my parents are telling me to add things since I'm already so limited, and they're right, the diet is hard enough as it is without cutting out more things, but I don't think I'm in any position to add things since my symptoms are still here!!! Sorry for the rant, I'm just so stressed I wish I could just give up, but that isn't really an option. Anyways, thanks for all the support and advice you have been giving me.AlyssaOn Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Alyssa Luck <luckycharmsnc (DOT) rr.com> wrote:>> I'm looking for some advice and info.Alyssa, not knowing your ailment and how long you've been on the dietmake it difficult to provide advice.On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Mara Schiffren <alcibiadesrcn> wrote:>> Well, cucumber is fine but cantaloupe has a lot of sugar, so that is> one thing to be careful about - eat only moderate amounts. It's the> sugar that trigger the bacteria that in turn trigger the inflammation.Basicially true except there are a few steps in the middle:- unwanted bacteria -- let's say Klebsiella pneumoniae -- feed onbranched polysaccharides (starch)- in order to debranch the starch Kp produces an enzyme (pullulanase)- during the enzyme production a protein is also secreted- this [foreign] protein is considered an antigen and your bodyproduces an antibody to attack it- this protein just so happens to resemble the protein in thecollagen of the intestines- the antibodies don't know any better so they attack this proteintoo (molecular mimicry, autoimmune reaction)- inflammation, ulcerations, blood, mucous, diarrhea, pain, etc., arethe resultMy Theory:- Kp can probably live for a good long while (3-4 months?) with verylittle to eat- when starch hasn't been available for a while it probably feeds onundigested disaccharides if available- if disaccharides aren't available it probably feeds onmonosaccharides for a while- eventually it gives up and goes dormant for a good long while --perhaps a year?- with any luck your gut heals, a healthy population of gut flora isestablished and Kp, if still present, is kept in check> Lots of sugar early on can set up a 3 month flare.You're probably going to have it anyway but, yeah, I agree 100% thatsugary fruit should be avoided for the first year or so.On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 3:33 PM, <lattanzio4aol> wrote:>> See: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.org/faq/constipation.htmI'm sure y'all would've figured it out but here's the corrected URL:http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.org/faq/constipation.html-- Cheers,DF in MAUC June '07SCD Nov '08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Sorry, I guess you're right. I have UC and have been on a not-quite intro SCD for about a month. I've been doing better diet-wise, on the intro except for more fruit and honey then I should be having and the occasional nut-baked good. I now am out of constipation and am having diarrhea and very mild cramps. Last night I got very nauseaus and ended up throwing up. Not fun.It's hard to tell exactly, but you could be having a little bit of a flare or you could be having a die-off/flare.If you develop flue like symptoms, headaches, general achiness, fever, lack of appetite to the point wherefood tastes bad, etc, that's definitely die-off. I got real sick one month into SCD - lasted over a week and it was a die-off/ flare thingy. In any case, you might want to go back to chicken/meat soup (all or mostly) for a few days. Or chicken soupwith a soft boiled egg in it for more richness. These kinds of fluctuations from C back to D do happen in die-off -- less so in flare, but anypermutation is possible of course, given the idiosyncracies of our symptoms and ourbacterial populations. Anyways, I probably just answered my own question by stating the things that I'm eating that aren't on the intro diet.You can get die off even with that - but if you are eating raw fruit - other than bananas -definitely cut that out. I'm just so stressed because everybody here is telling me to cut out raw things, and fruit, and honey, and my parents are telling me to add things since I'm already so limited, and they're right, the diet is hard enough as it is without cutting out more things, but I don't think I'm in any position to add things since my symptoms are still here!!! Sorry for the rant, I'm just so stressed I wish I could just give up, but that isn't really an option. Anyways, thanks for all the support and advi! ce you have been giving me.AlyssaOn Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Alyssa Luck <luckycharmsnc (DOT) rr.com> wrote:>> I'm looking for some advice and info.Alyssa, not knowing your ailment and how long you've been on the dietmake it difficult to provide advice.On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Mara Schiffren <alcibiadesrcn> wrote:>> Well, cucumber is fine but cantaloupe has a lot of sugar, so that is> one thing to be careful about - eat only moderate amounts. It's the> sugar that trigger the bacteria that in turn trigger the inflammation.Basicially true except there are a few steps in the middle:- unwanted bacteria -- let's say Klebsiella pneumoniae -- feed onbranched polysaccharides (starch)- in order to deb! ranch the starch Kp produces an enzyme (pullulanase)- during the enzyme production a protein is also secreted- this [foreign] protein is considered an antigen and your bodyproduces an antibody to attack it- this protein just so happens to resemble the protein in thecollagen of the intestines- the antibodies don't know any better so they attack this proteintoo (molecular mimicry, autoimmune reaction)- inflammation, ulcerations, blood, mucous, diarrhea, pain, etc., arethe resultMy Theory:- Kp can probably live for a good long while (3-4 months?) with verylittle to eat- when starch hasn't been available for a while it probably feeds onundigested disaccharides if available- if disaccharides aren't available it probably feeds onmonosaccharides for a while- eventually it gives up and goes dormant for a good long while --perhaps a year?- with any luck your gut heals, a healthy population of gut flora isestablished and Kp, if still present, is kept in check> Lots of sugar early on can set up a 3 month flare.You're probably going to have it anyway but, yeah, I agree 100% thatsugary fruit sh! ould be avoided for the first year or so.On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 3:33 PM, <lattanzio4aol> wrote:>> See: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.org/faq/constipation.htmI'm sure y'all would've figured it out but here's the corrected URL:http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.org/faq/constipation.html-- Cheers,DF in MAUC June '07SCD Nov '08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Sorry, I guess you're right. I have UC and have been on a not-quite intro SCD for about a month. I've been doing better diet-wise, on the intro except for more fruit and honey then I should be having and the occasional nut-baked good. I now am out of constipation and am having diarrhea and very mild cramps. Last night I got very nauseaus and ended up throwing up. Not fun.It's hard to tell exactly, but you could be having a little bit of a flare or you could be having a die-off/flare.If you develop flue like symptoms, headaches, general achiness, fever, lack of appetite to the point wherefood tastes bad, etc, that's definitely die-off. I got real sick one month into SCD - lasted over a week and it was a die-off/ flare thingy. In any case, you might want to go back to chicken/meat soup (all or mostly) for a few days. Or chicken soupwith a soft boiled egg in it for more richness. These kinds of fluctuations from C back to D do happen in die-off -- less so in flare, but anypermutation is possible of course, given the idiosyncracies of our symptoms and ourbacterial populations. Anyways, I probably just answered my own question by stating the things that I'm eating that aren't on the intro diet.You can get die off even with that - but if you are eating raw fruit - other than bananas -definitely cut that out. I'm just so stressed because everybody here is telling me to cut out raw things, and fruit, and honey, and my parents are telling me to add things since I'm already so limited, and they're right, the diet is hard enough as it is without cutting out more things, but I don't think I'm in any position to add things since my symptoms are still here!!! Sorry for the rant, I'm just so stressed I wish I could just give up, but that isn't really an option. Anyways, thanks for all the support and advi! ce you have been giving me.AlyssaOn Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Alyssa Luck <luckycharmsnc (DOT) rr.com> wrote:>> I'm looking for some advice and info.Alyssa, not knowing your ailment and how long you've been on the dietmake it difficult to provide advice.On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Mara Schiffren <alcibiadesrcn> wrote:>> Well, cucumber is fine but cantaloupe has a lot of sugar, so that is> one thing to be careful about - eat only moderate amounts. It's the> sugar that trigger the bacteria that in turn trigger the inflammation.Basicially true except there are a few steps in the middle:- unwanted bacteria -- let's say Klebsiella pneumoniae -- feed onbranched polysaccharides (starch)- in order to deb! ranch the starch Kp produces an enzyme (pullulanase)- during the enzyme production a protein is also secreted- this [foreign] protein is considered an antigen and your bodyproduces an antibody to attack it- this protein just so happens to resemble the protein in thecollagen of the intestines- the antibodies don't know any better so they attack this proteintoo (molecular mimicry, autoimmune reaction)- inflammation, ulcerations, blood, mucous, diarrhea, pain, etc., arethe resultMy Theory:- Kp can probably live for a good long while (3-4 months?) with verylittle to eat- when starch hasn't been available for a while it probably feeds onundigested disaccharides if available- if disaccharides aren't available it probably feeds onmonosaccharides for a while- eventually it gives up and goes dormant for a good long while --perhaps a year?- with any luck your gut heals, a healthy population of gut flora isestablished and Kp, if still present, is kept in check> Lots of sugar early on can set up a 3 month flare.You're probably going to have it anyway but, yeah, I agree 100% thatsugary fruit sh! ould be avoided for the first year or so.On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 3:33 PM, <lattanzio4aol> wrote:>> See: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.org/faq/constipation.htmI'm sure y'all would've figured it out but here's the corrected URL:http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.org/faq/constipation.html-- Cheers,DF in MAUC June '07SCD Nov '08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 > > I have UC and have been on a not-quite intro > SCD for about a month. I've been doing better diet-wise, on the intro except > for more fruit and honey then I should be having and the occasional > nut-baked good. I now am out of constipation and am having diarrhea and very > mild cramps. It's quite possible everything is time based, meaning as long as you're strict it's simply a matter of time before things start improving. I had little improvement until things magically changed 4 months and 1 week after starting the diet. > I'm just so stressed because > everybody here is telling me to cut out raw things, and fruit, and honey, > and my parents are telling me to add things since I'm already so limited, > and they're right, the diet is hard enough as it is without cutting out more > things, but I don't think I'm in any position to add things since my > symptoms are still here!!! That said it's also possible you'll improve quicker the stricter you are -- limited sweet fruit, little or no raw vegetables and fruits, little or no nuts/nut flour. It's not easy but it's likely you'll improve slowly, albeit dramatically, over time. If you're not clear on how Kp works let me know and I'll explain it again. I just got back from a 2 week business trip where I did a little cheating -- I think Fage yogurt was the culprit. I had reverted about halfway back to where I was but after being home for 3 days I'm better than ever. Here's TMI for you -- I had no discharge or anything upon awakening this morning, had an actual formed stool mid morning with almost no mucous and haven't had anything unusual for the rest of the day. I even passed gas without making a mess a couple times! (that's a huge accomplishment for me) > I'm just so stressed I wish I > could just give up, but that isn't really an option. It's certainly an option but, well, where would that leave you? :-) Be patient, stay tough, give it time. -- Cheers, DF in MA UC June '07 SCD Nov '08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 > - unwanted bacteria -- let's say Klebsiella pneumoniae -- feed on > branched polysaccharides (starch) > - in order to debranch the starch Kp produces an enzyme (pullulanase) > - during the enzyme production a protein is also secreted > - this [foreign] protein is considered an antigen and your body > produces an antibody to attack it > - this protein just so happens to resemble the protein in the > collagen of the intestines > - the antibodies don't know any better so they attack this protein > too (molecular mimicry, autoimmune reaction) > - inflammation, ulcerations, blood, mucous, diarrhea, pain, etc., are > the result > > > -- > Cheers, > DF in MA > UC June '07 > SCD Nov '08 > Anybody ever try Tanalbit to treat this bacteria? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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