Re: T3-Reduces testosterone

[Guest guest]

Hey Harry, I am interested in what you are saying here, but I can't understand it. Do you think you could explain the article in layman terms? Thanks,S

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Sun, April 18, 2010 8:55:18 AMSubject: T3-Reduces testosterone

Enclosed is one of the articles I stumbled on....since T3 is needed by the body this doesn't make sense...unless the T4 to T3 conversion process in some way ensures that T3 doesn't negatively impact SHBG levels. "Now you see another reason why people are told to NOT take t3 with H or anything else. It increases SHBG! That being said, this little diddy also explains why somebody like me with low T levels and hypothyroid puts on muscle and/or retains it so well. BECAUSE MY SHBG IS LIKELY ALMOST ZERO! Opposite effects of thyroid hormones on binding proteins for steroid hormones (sex hormone binding globulin and corticosteroid binding globulin) in humans [published erratum appears in Eur J Endocrinol 1995 Sep;133(3):381 Author Dumoulin SC; Perret BP; Bennet AP; Caron PJ Address Department of Endocrinology' CHU Rangueil' Toulouse' France. Source Eur J Endocrinol, 132(5):594 8 1995 May Abstract Sex

hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and corticosteroid binding globulin (CBG) levels were evaluated in euthyroid (N = 111)' hyper (N = 58) and hypothyroid (N = 38) men' in pre and postmenopausal women (study 1) and in hyper (N = 24) and hypothyroid (N = 15) patients before and after treatment with carbimazole or levothyroxine therapy (study 2). The SHBG levels are increased in hyper and decreased in hypothyroid patients' whereas CBG levels are increased in hypo and decreased in hyperthyroid patients. The SHBG levels are higher in women than in men with similar thyroid status. Plasma SHBG levels are correlated positively whereas CBG levels are correlated negatively with free thyroid hormone concentrations in men as well as women. In hypothyroid patients' SHBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) and CBG concentrations decreased (p < 0.01) during levothyroxine treatment. In hyperthyroid patients' SHBG concentrations

decreased (p < 0.01) and CBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) during antithyroid treatment. The SHBG and CBG concentrations in treated hypo and hyperthyroid patients were not significantly different from those of euthyroid controls. Our data indicate that SHBG and CBG levels depend on thyroid status. Corticosteroid binding globulin is an index of thyroid hormone action at the liver level whose changes are opposite to those of SHBG in hyper and hypothyroidism. And such, my little hobbits is EXACTLY why you lose muscle mass on T3. It IS NOT because of the t3 directly, but because it increases your shbg thereby locking up your testosterone and if you are dieting after a cycle with no AS at all, you can easily see how easy it would be to fuck yourself.

[Guest guest]

Hey Harry, I am interested in what you are saying here, but I can't understand it. Do you think you could explain the article in layman terms? Thanks,S

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Sun, April 18, 2010 8:55:18 AMSubject: T3-Reduces testosterone

Enclosed is one of the articles I stumbled on....since T3 is needed by the body this doesn't make sense...unless the T4 to T3 conversion process in some way ensures that T3 doesn't negatively impact SHBG levels. "Now you see another reason why people are told to NOT take t3 with H or anything else. It increases SHBG! That being said, this little diddy also explains why somebody like me with low T levels and hypothyroid puts on muscle and/or retains it so well. BECAUSE MY SHBG IS LIKELY ALMOST ZERO! Opposite effects of thyroid hormones on binding proteins for steroid hormones (sex hormone binding globulin and corticosteroid binding globulin) in humans [published erratum appears in Eur J Endocrinol 1995 Sep;133(3):381 Author Dumoulin SC; Perret BP; Bennet AP; Caron PJ Address Department of Endocrinology' CHU Rangueil' Toulouse' France. Source Eur J Endocrinol, 132(5):594 8 1995 May Abstract Sex

hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and corticosteroid binding globulin (CBG) levels were evaluated in euthyroid (N = 111)' hyper (N = 58) and hypothyroid (N = 38) men' in pre and postmenopausal women (study 1) and in hyper (N = 24) and hypothyroid (N = 15) patients before and after treatment with carbimazole or levothyroxine therapy (study 2). The SHBG levels are increased in hyper and decreased in hypothyroid patients' whereas CBG levels are increased in hypo and decreased in hyperthyroid patients. The SHBG levels are higher in women than in men with similar thyroid status. Plasma SHBG levels are correlated positively whereas CBG levels are correlated negatively with free thyroid hormone concentrations in men as well as women. In hypothyroid patients' SHBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) and CBG concentrations decreased (p < 0.01) during levothyroxine treatment. In hyperthyroid patients' SHBG concentrations

decreased (p < 0.01) and CBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) during antithyroid treatment. The SHBG and CBG concentrations in treated hypo and hyperthyroid patients were not significantly different from those of euthyroid controls. Our data indicate that SHBG and CBG levels depend on thyroid status. Corticosteroid binding globulin is an index of thyroid hormone action at the liver level whose changes are opposite to those of SHBG in hyper and hypothyroidism. And such, my little hobbits is EXACTLY why you lose muscle mass on T3. It IS NOT because of the t3 directly, but because it increases your shbg thereby locking up your testosterone and if you are dieting after a cycle with no AS at all, you can easily see how easy it would be to fuck yourself.

[Guest guest]

HC reduces testosterone. Mine went down from like 19 to 10 after I went on HC. T3-only doesn't do anything with testosterone, at least not mine. AND MY SHBG IS LOW AS EVER at 15!Subject: Re: T3-Reduces testosteroneTo: RT3_T3 Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 7:19 PM

Hey Harry, I am interested in what you are saying here, but I can't understand it. Do you think you could explain the article in layman terms? Thanks,S

From: Harry <hcallahan45@ yahoo.com>To: RT3_T3yahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Sun, April 18, 2010 8:55:18 AMSubject: T3-Reduces testosterone

Enclosed is one of the articles I stumbled on....since T3 is needed by the body this doesn't make sense...unless the T4 to T3 conversion process in some way ensures that T3 doesn't negatively impact SHBG levels. "Now you see another reason why people are told to NOT take t3 with H or anything else. It increases SHBG! That being said, this little diddy also explains why somebody like me with low T levels and hypothyroid puts on muscle and/or retains it so well. BECAUSE MY SHBG IS LIKELY ALMOST ZERO! Opposite effects of thyroid hormones on binding proteins for steroid hormones (sex hormone binding globulin and corticosteroid binding globulin) in humans [published erratum appears in Eur J Endocrinol 1995 Sep;133(3):381 Author Dumoulin SC; Perret BP; Bennet AP; Caron PJ Address Department of Endocrinology' CHU Rangueil' Toulouse' France. Source Eur J Endocrinol, 132(5):594 8 1995 May Abstract Sex

hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and corticosteroid binding globulin (CBG) levels were evaluated in euthyroid (N = 111)' hyper (N = 58) and hypothyroid (N = 38) men' in pre and postmenopausal women (study 1) and in hyper (N = 24) and hypothyroid (N = 15) patients before and after treatment with carbimazole or levothyroxine therapy (study 2). The SHBG levels are increased in hyper and decreased in hypothyroid patients' whereas CBG levels are increased in hypo and decreased in hyperthyroid patients. The SHBG levels are higher in women than in men with similar thyroid status. Plasma SHBG levels are correlated positively whereas CBG levels are correlated negatively with free thyroid hormone concentrations in men as well as women. In hypothyroid patients' SHBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) and CBG concentrations decreased (p < 0.01) during levothyroxine treatment. In hyperthyroid patients' SHBG concentrations

decreased (p < 0.01) and CBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) during antithyroid treatment. The SHBG and CBG concentrations in treated hypo and hyperthyroid patients were not significantly different from those of euthyroid controls. Our data indicate that SHBG and CBG levels depend on thyroid status. Corticosteroid binding globulin is an index of thyroid hormone action at the liver level whose changes are opposite to those of SHBG in hyper and hypothyroidism. And such, my little hobbits is EXACTLY why you lose muscle mass on T3. It IS NOT because of the t3 directly, but because it increases your shbg thereby locking up your testosterone and if you are dieting after a cycle with no AS at all, you can easily see how easy it would be to fuck yourself.

[Guest guest]

All this article is saying is this....

If you are HYPERthyroid....

1) CBG is low (therefore Free Cortisol would be higher)

2) SHBG is high (therefore Free Testosterone would be lower)

If HYPERthyroid patient is treated with Carbimazole...

1) CBG increases (therefore Free Cortisol would be lowered)

2) SHBG decreases (therefore Free Testosterone would be higher)

If you are HYPOthyroid

1) CBG is high (therefore Free Cortisol would be lowered)

2) SHBG is low (therefore Free Testosterone would be higher)

If HYPOthyroid patient is treated with Levothyroxine (note this is T4 ONLY

med)...

1) CBG is lowered (Therefore Free Cortisol is increased)

2) SHBG is increased (therefore Free Testosterone would be lowered)

Note they ONLY used a T4 med (Levothyroxine). This would only be an effective

Hypothyroid treatment IF the patient was able to efficiently convert T4 to T3.

However I agree that with treatment EITHER with T4 meds (assuming adequate T3

conversion) OR with T3 only meds then YES SHBG would be increased.

I would like to point out that Estrogen also increases SHBG (not just Thyroid

status) which is why the article states....

" ....SHBG levels are HIGHER in Women than in Men with similar Thyroid

status.... "

Now what impact the above has on an individual depends on their production of

DHEA , how well they convert to Testosterone, how much Testosterone they produce

& how high SHBG is.

If TOTAL Testosterone is low for whatever reason (Primary or Secondary

Hypogonadism, underlying nutritional deficiencies, genetic mutations, etc) then

I agree that correcting HYPOthyroid with either T4 and/or T3 will increase SHBG

and decrease Free Testosterone. The severity will differ.

I do NOT see this as a " problem " . What do you suggest.... that it is PREFERABLE

to remain Hypothyroid? That is just ridiculous!!!

If Testosterone levels are decreased too far then the APPROPRIATE treatment is

to correct that hormonal deficiency as well.

Note the article also says .....

" The SHBG and CBG concentrations in TREATED Hypo and Hyperthyroid patients were

NOT significantly different from those of EUTHYROID controls. "

In other words treatment " normalised " Sex Hormone status!!!

It is NOT healthy to have low TOTAL Testosterone nor is it healthy to have LOW

SHBG!!! No more than it is healthy to have low TOTAL Cortisol or LOW or HIGH

CBG.

What YOU need to do " my fellow hobbit " is to fix BOTH your Thyroid & Sex Hormone

status. As both myself & my Husband have had to do. For my Hubby that meant DHEA

HRT, Testosterone HRT & Arimadex (to lower his Estrogens).

Low SHBG is in fact a sign that Estrogen and/or Thyroid status is SUBOPTIMAL.

You NEED decent levels of SHBG in order to have Sex Hormones transported in

bloodstream & available when needed. If SHBG remains low you would have to dose

HRT numerous times a day to optimise levels.

Lethal Lee

_________________________________________________________________

>

Enclosed is one of the articles I stumbled on....since T3 is needed by the body

this doesn't make sense...unless the T4 to T3 conversion process in some way

ensures that T3 doesn't negatively impact SHBG levels.

" Now you see another reason why people are told to NOT take T3 with H or

anything else. It increases SHBG! That being said, this little diddy also

explains why somebody like me with low T levels and hypothyroid puts on muscle

and/or retains it so well. BECAUSE MY SHBG IS LIKELY ALMOST ZERO!

Opposite effects of thyroid hormones on binding proteins for steroid hormones

(sex hormone binding globulin and corticosteroid binding globulin) in humans

[published erratum appears in Eur J Endocrinol 1995 Sep;133(3):381

Author Dumoulin SC; Perret BP; Bennet AP; Caron PJ

Address Department of Endocrinology' CHU Rangueil' Toulouse' France.

Source Eur J Endocrinol, 132(5):594 8 1995 May

Abstract

Sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and corticosteroid binding globulin (CBG)

levels were evaluated in euthyroid (N = 111)' hyper (N = 58) and hypothyroid (N

= 38) men' in pre and postmenopausal women (study 1) and in hyper (N = 24) and

hypothyroid (N = 15) patients before and after treatment with carbimazole or

levothyroxine therapy (study 2).

The SHBG levels are increased in hyper and decreased in hypothyroid patients'

whereas CBG levels are increased in hypo and decreased in hyperthyroid patients.

The SHBG levels are higher in women than in men with similar thyroid status.

Plasma SHBG levels are correlated positively whereas CBG levels are correlated

negatively with free thyroid hormone concentrations in men as well as women.

In HYPOthyroid patients' SHBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) and CBG

concentrations decreased (p < 0.01) during Levothyroxine treatment.

In HYPERthyroid patients' SHBG concentrations decreased (p 0.01) and CBG

concentrations increased (p < 0.01)during antithyroid treatment.

The SHBG and CBG concentrations in treated hypo and hyperthyroid patients were

NOT significantly different from those of euthyroid controls.

Our data indicate that SHBG and CBG levels depend on thyroid

status.

Corticosteroid binding globulin is an index of thyroid hormone action at the

liver level whose changes are opposite to those of SHBG in hyper and

hypothyroidism.

====================================================

And such, my little hobbits is EXACTLY why you lose muscle mass on T3. It IS NOT

because of the t3 directly, but because it increases your shbg thereby locking

up your testosterone and if you are dieting after a cycle with no AS at all, you

can easily see how easy it would be to fuck yourself.

>

[Guest guest]

All this article is saying is this....

If you are HYPERthyroid....

1) CBG is low (therefore Free Cortisol would be higher)

2) SHBG is high (therefore Free Testosterone would be lower)

If HYPERthyroid patient is treated with Carbimazole...

1) CBG increases (therefore Free Cortisol would be lowered)

2) SHBG decreases (therefore Free Testosterone would be higher)

If you are HYPOthyroid

1) CBG is high (therefore Free Cortisol would be lowered)

2) SHBG is low (therefore Free Testosterone would be higher)

If HYPOthyroid patient is treated with Levothyroxine (note this is T4 ONLY

med)...

1) CBG is lowered (Therefore Free Cortisol is increased)

2) SHBG is increased (therefore Free Testosterone would be lowered)

Note they ONLY used a T4 med (Levothyroxine). This would only be an effective

Hypothyroid treatment IF the patient was able to efficiently convert T4 to T3.

However I agree that with treatment EITHER with T4 meds (assuming adequate T3

conversion) OR with T3 only meds then YES SHBG would be increased.

I would like to point out that Estrogen also increases SHBG (not just Thyroid

status) which is why the article states....

" ....SHBG levels are HIGHER in Women than in Men with similar Thyroid

status.... "

Now what impact the above has on an individual depends on their production of

DHEA , how well they convert to Testosterone, how much Testosterone they produce

& how high SHBG is.

If TOTAL Testosterone is low for whatever reason (Primary or Secondary

Hypogonadism, underlying nutritional deficiencies, genetic mutations, etc) then

I agree that correcting HYPOthyroid with either T4 and/or T3 will increase SHBG

and decrease Free Testosterone. The severity will differ.

I do NOT see this as a " problem " . What do you suggest.... that it is PREFERABLE

to remain Hypothyroid? That is just ridiculous!!!

If Testosterone levels are decreased too far then the APPROPRIATE treatment is

to correct that hormonal deficiency as well.

Note the article also says .....

" The SHBG and CBG concentrations in TREATED Hypo and Hyperthyroid patients were

NOT significantly different from those of EUTHYROID controls. "

In other words treatment " normalised " Sex Hormone status!!!

It is NOT healthy to have low TOTAL Testosterone nor is it healthy to have LOW

SHBG!!! No more than it is healthy to have low TOTAL Cortisol or LOW or HIGH

CBG.

What YOU need to do " my fellow hobbit " is to fix BOTH your Thyroid & Sex Hormone

status. As both myself & my Husband have had to do. For my Hubby that meant DHEA

HRT, Testosterone HRT & Arimadex (to lower his Estrogens).

Low SHBG is in fact a sign that Estrogen and/or Thyroid status is SUBOPTIMAL.

You NEED decent levels of SHBG in order to have Sex Hormones transported in

bloodstream & available when needed. If SHBG remains low you would have to dose

HRT numerous times a day to optimise levels.

Lethal Lee

_________________________________________________________________

>

Enclosed is one of the articles I stumbled on....since T3 is needed by the body

this doesn't make sense...unless the T4 to T3 conversion process in some way

ensures that T3 doesn't negatively impact SHBG levels.

" Now you see another reason why people are told to NOT take T3 with H or

anything else. It increases SHBG! That being said, this little diddy also

explains why somebody like me with low T levels and hypothyroid puts on muscle

and/or retains it so well. BECAUSE MY SHBG IS LIKELY ALMOST ZERO!

Opposite effects of thyroid hormones on binding proteins for steroid hormones

(sex hormone binding globulin and corticosteroid binding globulin) in humans

[published erratum appears in Eur J Endocrinol 1995 Sep;133(3):381

Author Dumoulin SC; Perret BP; Bennet AP; Caron PJ

Address Department of Endocrinology' CHU Rangueil' Toulouse' France.

Source Eur J Endocrinol, 132(5):594 8 1995 May

Abstract

Sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and corticosteroid binding globulin (CBG)

levels were evaluated in euthyroid (N = 111)' hyper (N = 58) and hypothyroid (N

= 38) men' in pre and postmenopausal women (study 1) and in hyper (N = 24) and

hypothyroid (N = 15) patients before and after treatment with carbimazole or

levothyroxine therapy (study 2).

The SHBG levels are increased in hyper and decreased in hypothyroid patients'

whereas CBG levels are increased in hypo and decreased in hyperthyroid patients.

The SHBG levels are higher in women than in men with similar thyroid status.

Plasma SHBG levels are correlated positively whereas CBG levels are correlated

negatively with free thyroid hormone concentrations in men as well as women.

In HYPOthyroid patients' SHBG concentrations increased (p < 0.01) and CBG

concentrations decreased (p < 0.01) during Levothyroxine treatment.

In HYPERthyroid patients' SHBG concentrations decreased (p 0.01) and CBG

concentrations increased (p < 0.01)during antithyroid treatment.

The SHBG and CBG concentrations in treated hypo and hyperthyroid patients were

NOT significantly different from those of euthyroid controls.

Our data indicate that SHBG and CBG levels depend on thyroid

status.

Corticosteroid binding globulin is an index of thyroid hormone action at the

liver level whose changes are opposite to those of SHBG in hyper and

hypothyroidism.

====================================================

And such, my little hobbits is EXACTLY why you lose muscle mass on T3. It IS NOT

because of the t3 directly, but because it increases your shbg thereby locking

up your testosterone and if you are dieting after a cycle with no AS at all, you

can easily see how easy it would be to fuck yourself.

>