Re: DM II and fruit

February 26, 2005

Plus, as an insulin using type 2, I can include the carb count with my meal

count, and just inject insulin for it.

I eat a variety of fruits - lots of berries as they're lower in carbs - but

also apples, an occasional pear or peach in the summer. I've given up bananas

and grapes, but find I don't miss them. I even eat mango now and then.... one

of my absolute favorite fruits - but I don't eat it alone as a snack, I eat

it at the finish of a low carb meal. And never first thing in the morning as

I'm ultra sensitive to carbs then.

Corn products don't send me soaring as much as wheat products. In summer I

ate corn on the cob, just one ear, as part of a meal and with lots of butter.

I can also have some grits now and then in a smallish portion of a 1/4 of a

cup or so.

It's less the sweetness of fruit that appeals to me and more the intensity of

flavor of good not overripe fruit.

Stacey

February 26, 2005

Plus, as an insulin using type 2, I can include the carb count with my meal

count, and just inject insulin for it.

I eat a variety of fruits - lots of berries as they're lower in carbs - but

also apples, an occasional pear or peach in the summer. I've given up bananas

and grapes, but find I don't miss them. I even eat mango now and then.... one

of my absolute favorite fruits - but I don't eat it alone as a snack, I eat

it at the finish of a low carb meal. And never first thing in the morning as

I'm ultra sensitive to carbs then.

Corn products don't send me soaring as much as wheat products. In summer I

ate corn on the cob, just one ear, as part of a meal and with lots of butter.

I can also have some grits now and then in a smallish portion of a 1/4 of a

cup or so.

It's less the sweetness of fruit that appeals to me and more the intensity of

flavor of good not overripe fruit.

Stacey

February 26, 2005

I eat fruit too, particularly when summer fruit is available. While I

do not figure out the glycemic load of a meal, I do count carbs. Fruit

is equated the same status as a veggie carb. I limit the amount to 4

grams of carb and never eat it alone. Grains are doubled as I am more

sensitive to them than other carbs. So I use the low carb tortillas,

but shoot extra for them. Dianne and cappie seem to have even greater

sensitivity to grains than I do.

Tommie, I would suggest moving your fruit to later in the day where your

DP will not come into play. As for bananas, I have two things I do with

them. One is to freeze normal slices and eat one. It melts slowly in

your mouth and you get a lot of that banana taste. Another is to slice

a couple of inches very, very thinly, put cinnamon on them, and eat as

part of a meal.

As in always, and everything, YMMV.

Helen

February 26, 2005

I am the same way Dianne--I can eat small portions of fruit without a

problem but not any kind of grain, good healthy complex ones or

worthless processed junky ones makes no difference. I spike on grain

period.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

2/05:143 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

February 26, 2005

> For instance, I can eat half an apple with no spike, but if I eat just one

> low

> carb tortilla, my bgs go over 200. It doesn't make sense! Half a medium

> apple

> has approx. 7.9 grams of net carb, and a low carb tortilla has about 4, but

> one

> spikes me and the other doesn't.

>

> I think the only way we can know what *our* particular triggers are is to

> test

> again and again.

When you guys test for these spikes, when do you test? half hour?

hour? from when you started eating? or finished eating the food? even

if it took a long time to eat?

Thanks,

May

February 27, 2005

For me white bread is never a temptation, I stopped bringing it into the

house when my kids left home. I drool over the thought of those heavy

dense dark whole grain specialty breads (not those soft supermarket

kind) which I absolutely love. Ah well such is life.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

2/05:143 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

February 27, 2005

In a message dated 2/26/2005 4:24:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

whimsy2@... writes:

> It doesn't make sense! Half a medium apple has approx. 7.9 grams of net

> carb, and a low carb tortilla has about 4, but one spikes me and the other

> doesn't.

An apple includes fiber, and the fiber slows down conversion of carbohydrate

to glucose. For a type 2, the 'spike' and deltaAUC are not necessarily the

same for the same number of carbs. This effect is quantified in the following

experiment

I carried out a mini glucose tolerance test in conjunction with 2 tablespoons

of Benefiber dissolved in 8 oz of water. The Benefiber contained 6 gram of

soluble fiber, which doesn't add to the carbohydrate load, plus 2 grams of other

unknown carb.

Using 12 grams of glucose, here are the results.

WITHOUT BENEFIBER WITH BENEFIBER

Total carb = 12 gram Total carb = 14 gram

Peak increase in BG = 75 Peak increase in BG = 70

deltaAUC =3,213 deltaAUC 3,082

DeltaAUC depends upon the total carbohydrate load, thus the effective

deltaAUC for a 12 gram load with the Benefiber added is 3,082 x 12/14 i.e.

2,642.

The fiber has reduced the deltaAUC by 14%.

Assuming that the spike varies as the square root of the load, the adjusted

peak with Benefiber is 70 x 0.93 i.e., 65.

The fiber has reduced the peak by about 13%.

My tests confirm that fiber reduces spike and deltaAUC, a fact that most of

us already knew, but it's nice to put some numbers on it.

I don't have any financial interest in Benefiber, but it does seem like an

easy way to add fiber to one's meals.

February 27, 2005

This sensitvity was discovered by me when I was still in the multiple

testing to see how foods affect me stage when newly diagnosed. I would

eat something & then test every 15 min till I started to go back down.

Every so often I think that maybe my grain sensitivity has lessened & I

will try eating some again but I always still spike.

Now, if I am eating something new or testing for a specific situation I

will usually test at 1 hr & 2 hrs after first eating and sometimes till

I start going back down if I have spiked pretty high.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 1/05 A1c: 5.4 = 115 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

2/05:143 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

February 27, 2005

Quoting from a previous post:

> Please watch out for who you're quoting from. That wasn't me! Vicki aka

> Whimsy

Sorry about that Vicki, sometimes the originator gets lost in quotes from

quotes.

I did start to use a generic " Quoting from a previous post " without

referencing the source, but sometimes in the excitement of the moment, I forget.

February 27, 2005

> Every so often I think that maybe my grain sensitivity has lessened & I

> will try eating some again but I always still spike.

You may be allergic to grains.

Gretchen

February 27, 2005

> Sorry but I never knew one thing Ron was saying & I don't understand

> your language either

>

Well, look at it this way, if Ron was on this list you'd be doubly

confused/enlightened, take your pick <grin>

The point I was making was that for a type 2 diabetic, not all carbs have the

same effect on 'spiking' and A1c. Thus 4 gram of carb in one food, can cause

a bigger spike than 6 gram of carb in another food. The testing details are

given to support my comments.

(the engineer)

February 27, 2005

Please watch out for who you're quoting from. That wasn't me!

Vicki aka Whimsy

Re: DM II and fruit

In a message dated 2/26/2005 4:24:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

whimsy2@... writes:

> It doesn't make sense! Half a medium apple has approx. 7.9 grams of

> net

> carb, and a low carb tortilla has about 4, but one spikes me and the

> other

> doesn't.

An apple includes fiber, and the fiber slows down conversion of

carbohydrate

to glucose. For a type 2, the 'spike' and deltaAUC are not necessarily

the

same for the same number of carbs. This effect is quantified in the

following

experiment

I carried out a mini glucose tolerance test in conjunction with 2

tablespoons

of Benefiber dissolved in 8 oz of water. The Benefiber contained 6 gram

of

soluble fiber, which doesn't add to the carbohydrate load, plus 2 grams

of other

unknown carb.

Using 12 grams of glucose, here are the results.

WITHOUT BENEFIBER WITH BENEFIBER

Total carb = 12 gram Total carb = 14 gram

Peak increase in BG = 75 Peak increase in BG = 70

deltaAUC =3,213 deltaAUC 3,082

DeltaAUC depends upon the total carbohydrate load, thus the effective

deltaAUC for a 12 gram load with the Benefiber added is 3,082 x 12/14

i.e. 2,642.

The fiber has reduced the deltaAUC by 14%.

Assuming that the spike varies as the square root of the load, the

adjusted

peak with Benefiber is 70 x 0.93 i.e., 65.

The fiber has reduced the peak by about 13%.

My tests confirm that fiber reduces spike and deltaAUC, a fact that most

of

us already knew, but it's nice to put some numbers on it.

I don't have any financial interest in Benefiber, but it does seem like

an

easy way to add fiber to one's meals.

[

February 27, 2005

Thanks, Dianne. I should've asked too...what constitutes a spike?

I'm bewildered because I've gone on this diabetic diet, and my A1c

went from 6.3 to 6.5. I know that could be a meaningless variation in

the test score, but still...in June, my FBG was 187, but that was

right after chemo ended. This time it was 120, but that's about as

low as it ever gets. It ranges up to about 155. Triglycerides went

from 771 in June to 244 (hooray!); my total cholesterol went up, from

216 to 273, and I've been trying so hard to eat right! --My LDL was

untestable last time because of the high trigylcerides, is at 188.2

now, and HDL went up from 34 to 36, with cholesterol/HDL ratio still

too high at 7.58. The doc prescribed a starting dose of 500 mg.

Metformin.

I also have this stuff going on with cancer markers, so I'm a tad

depressed, especially since I'm supposed to start this wonderful new

job March 7th. I hope someone can wade through this and give me a

little perspective.

Thanks,

May

> Hi May,

>

> I can usually tell when I'm going high. Not always, but usually...

>

> As soon as I start feeling symptoms, I test. If I have no symptoms which

> prompt

> me to test early, I will test two hours after I take my last bite. I do it

> this

> way because I tend to take my own sweet time eating. ;-D

>

> Dianne

February 27, 2005