Guest guest Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 In a message dated 8/20/2004 8:14:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, ptahia@... writes: > doctor just told me to cut my dose of 2 grains of armour IN HALF!!!! > > that can't be right. he diagnosing only with the tsh?? what should i > do? > This is sorta what happened to me...dosing by the TSH...which means nothing...heck, your hormone levels need to be higher. Fire the doctor and don't cut your dosage. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 In a message dated 8/20/2004 9:56:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, ptahia@... writes: > if i was to, uh, > self medicate, how does 1.5 armour + 50 mcg t4 sound? > why don't you just raise the Armour? Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 easy, get a new DR > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones >To: NaturalThyroidHormones >Subject: help!!!!!!!! >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 easy, get a new DR > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones >To: NaturalThyroidHormones >Subject: help!!!!!!!! >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 i wish!!! however, since that isn't possible at the moment - if i was to, uh, self medicate, how does 1.5 armour + 50 mcg t4 sound? i mean do we not care about the tsh and just medicate according to the frees? i have had a very low tsh for about 3 years now, it seems there is nothing for me to do about it.... thanks shana > > easy, get a new DR > > >From: " ptahia " <ptahia@y...> > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones > >To: NaturalThyroidHormones > >Subject: help!!!!!!!! > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Do you have adrenal fatigue? This can eroniously give high test readings, although your numbers are not really very high. T4 is low, but T3 seems about right for someone on Armour. However the disparity between T4 and T3 seems to indicate adrenal fatigue. In adrenal fatigue the body cannot use T3 and cells can become insensitive to it so it can build up in the blood. Yet at the same time overall thyroid dose is too low giving low T4 results. I would forget the TSH test as the other numbers indicate you have adrenal fatigue and still need more Armour to get T4 up a bit. Tish > 60955.1 > > hi everyone, > > i need help. > > here are my latest results: > > tsh 0.05 (.3-4.0) > > ft4 .86 (.68-1.76) > > ft3 392 (210-440) > > > > doctor just told me to cut my dose of 2 grains of armour IN HALF!!!! > > that can't be right. he diagnosing only with the tsh?? what should i > do? > > thanks > > shana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Tell you doctor he is crazy and find a new one!!! Don't do it....I'd say you even need MORE Armour. Your Free T3 could be better. Zina > 60955.1 > > hi everyone, > > i need help. > > here are my latest results: > > tsh 0.05 (.3-4.0) > > ft4 .86 (.68-1.76) > > ft3 392 (210-440) > > > > doctor just told me to cut my dose of 2 grains of armour IN HALF!!!! > > that can't be right. he diagnosing only with the tsh?? what should i > do? > > thanks > > shana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Don't worry about the TSH, look at your Free T3. Your Free T3 needs to be higher. I think you'd be better off just increasing your Armour. They do sell Armour over the counter, if you can't get your doctor to let you take more. I'm sure Janie has some links at the group site. Zina > > > > easy, get a new DR > > > > >From: " ptahia " <ptahia@y...> > > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones > > >To: NaturalThyroidHormones > > >Subject: help!!!!!!!! > > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 thanks zina, love your name by the way. i think i have decided to self medicate and get gp to do the blood work for me. either that or i have to go out of plan and i can't afford that now. so i found a bottle of 50 mcg eltroxin (t4) that i have lying around - unopened, unexpired. i have cut my armour to 1.5 and added 50 mcg t4. from others that i have posted with i got the impression that more armour wouldn't raise my t4 level, only the t3. thanks for your advice and i guess we'll see how this goes for me. thanks shana > > > > > > easy, get a new DR > > > > > > >From: " ptahia " <ptahia@y...> > > > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones > > > >To: NaturalThyroidHormones > > > >Subject: help!!!!!!!! > > > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 hi tish, how would i otherwise know if i have adrenal fatigue? i do know that one symptom is not tolerating meds - however, i managed to switch from synthroid to armour and in two weeks was up to 2 grains with no problem, so no intolerance there. what else should i look for and how can it be corrected. i can tell you that my main complaint right now is afternoon fatigue and inability to lose weight even though i wokrout like crazy! advice? thanks shana > > 60955.1 > > > > hi everyone, > > > > i need help. > > > > here are my latest results: > > > > tsh 0.05 (.3-4.0) > > > > ft4 .86 (.68-1.76) > > > > ft3 392 (210-440) > > > > > > > > doctor just told me to cut my dose of 2 grains of armour IN > HALF!!!! > > > > that can't be right. he diagnosing only with the tsh?? what should > i > > do? > > > > thanks > > > > shana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 Armour will also raise your t4 levels. If you lowered your Armour from 2 to 1 1/2 thinking that the t4 in that 1/2 grain is the same as the Synthroid 50 mg, you are wrong. Since you were fairly low to start with, it may not hurt. Please post your numbers again both results and ranges. Self medicating can be very dangerous if you do not understand amounts of t3 and t4 in different thyroid meds and just take whatever. I have had thyroid storm 2x from overdosing of thyroid meds and it is not fun. Having to take beta blockers and not being able to sleep and pacing in a panic is not a good way to live. help!!!!!!!! > > > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 > hi tish, > how would i otherwise know if i have adrenal fatigue? ______________________ You can do a google search on adrenal fatigue symptoms, but here is one link for you http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/doi.php When thyroid is low, the adrenals become weak. They are dependent on thryoid hormone for their size and function. The body compensates for this by hanging on to adrenal hormones longer and thus keeping blood levels up as much as possible. So, a person can be subclinical hypothyroid for a long time and not feel it too badly because the body is trying to compensate. The body also increases the re-uptake of thryoid from the digestive tract instead of letting it be removed from the body in the normal fashion. There are also some other things that can keep T3 up while T4 is declining from low thyroid output. Protien levels often decline in hypothyroidism and this will result in less protien carriers for hormone in the blood, increasing the amount of free T3. T3 is not held tightly to protien and so many things can unbind it such as various medications like asperine, antihistimines, salycilates (in potatoes and tomatoes) changes in mineral balance and PH. The thyroid itself makes changes when it can't make enough T4. It increases the amount of T3 it makes instead of T4. Since T3 is the one that is most needed for energy for the body. The body also adapts by increasing the level of conversion of T4 to T3. So, that is why it is so common for people in the early stages of thryoid disease to have low T4, but normal T3. I was commenting about your T3 because was above the midline indicating that something is keeping the T3 in the blood. The most common cause is low adrenal. Most people have T3 at the midline or just below in early thyroid failure. But, it is also possible that your T3 test was not accurate and was giving too high of results. This can occur from testing error and from interference from anit-thyroid anitbodies. If you are able to do strenuous exercise without suffering later or getting insomnia, then you probably have pretty good adrenal reserve. However, I was able to walk 4 miles a day when I was hypoadrenal and hypothryoid up untill I finally crashed. If you crave salt, sugar and carbos, that is your body trying to get more adrenal output. Other low adrenal symptoms are, tight muscles in back and neck, thirst, sensitivity to bright light, blood pressure that drops when you go from lying down to standing, irritable bowel, low or high blood pressure, fatigue in the mornings which improves later in the day, getting your best sleep later in the morning, staying up late because you don't feel tired at night, palipitations especially in mornings or after a big meal in the evening, low blood sugar or hunger even though you know you have recently eaten, insomnia or poor sleep, getting up frequently at night to use the bathroom, slow recovery from illness or stress, stress makes you sick, and black circles under your eyes. There are many more symptoms, but maybe this will help. T4 down near the low end of the scale is a pretty clear indication of hypothyroidism. The reason is that a healthy thryoid stores a month or more worth of thyroid in the gland. So, it should be able to keep blood levels in the normal range under many hampering circumstances. So, once levels drop in the blood, that is a clear sign it has lost it's stores and no longer can keep up with demand. Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 > hi tish, > how would i otherwise know if i have adrenal fatigue? ______________________ You can do a google search on adrenal fatigue symptoms, but here is one link for you http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/doi.php When thyroid is low, the adrenals become weak. They are dependent on thryoid hormone for their size and function. The body compensates for this by hanging on to adrenal hormones longer and thus keeping blood levels up as much as possible. So, a person can be subclinical hypothyroid for a long time and not feel it too badly because the body is trying to compensate. The body also increases the re-uptake of thryoid from the digestive tract instead of letting it be removed from the body in the normal fashion. There are also some other things that can keep T3 up while T4 is declining from low thyroid output. Protien levels often decline in hypothyroidism and this will result in less protien carriers for hormone in the blood, increasing the amount of free T3. T3 is not held tightly to protien and so many things can unbind it such as various medications like asperine, antihistimines, salycilates (in potatoes and tomatoes) changes in mineral balance and PH. The thyroid itself makes changes when it can't make enough T4. It increases the amount of T3 it makes instead of T4. Since T3 is the one that is most needed for energy for the body. The body also adapts by increasing the level of conversion of T4 to T3. So, that is why it is so common for people in the early stages of thryoid disease to have low T4, but normal T3. I was commenting about your T3 because was above the midline indicating that something is keeping the T3 in the blood. The most common cause is low adrenal. Most people have T3 at the midline or just below in early thyroid failure. But, it is also possible that your T3 test was not accurate and was giving too high of results. This can occur from testing error and from interference from anit-thyroid anitbodies. If you are able to do strenuous exercise without suffering later or getting insomnia, then you probably have pretty good adrenal reserve. However, I was able to walk 4 miles a day when I was hypoadrenal and hypothryoid up untill I finally crashed. If you crave salt, sugar and carbos, that is your body trying to get more adrenal output. Other low adrenal symptoms are, tight muscles in back and neck, thirst, sensitivity to bright light, blood pressure that drops when you go from lying down to standing, irritable bowel, low or high blood pressure, fatigue in the mornings which improves later in the day, getting your best sleep later in the morning, staying up late because you don't feel tired at night, palipitations especially in mornings or after a big meal in the evening, low blood sugar or hunger even though you know you have recently eaten, insomnia or poor sleep, getting up frequently at night to use the bathroom, slow recovery from illness or stress, stress makes you sick, and black circles under your eyes. There are many more symptoms, but maybe this will help. T4 down near the low end of the scale is a pretty clear indication of hypothyroidism. The reason is that a healthy thryoid stores a month or more worth of thyroid in the gland. So, it should be able to keep blood levels in the normal range under many hampering circumstances. So, once levels drop in the blood, that is a clear sign it has lost it's stores and no longer can keep up with demand. Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 > hi tish, > how would i otherwise know if i have adrenal fatigue? ______________________ You can do a google search on adrenal fatigue symptoms, but here is one link for you http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/doi.php When thyroid is low, the adrenals become weak. They are dependent on thryoid hormone for their size and function. The body compensates for this by hanging on to adrenal hormones longer and thus keeping blood levels up as much as possible. So, a person can be subclinical hypothyroid for a long time and not feel it too badly because the body is trying to compensate. The body also increases the re-uptake of thryoid from the digestive tract instead of letting it be removed from the body in the normal fashion. There are also some other things that can keep T3 up while T4 is declining from low thyroid output. Protien levels often decline in hypothyroidism and this will result in less protien carriers for hormone in the blood, increasing the amount of free T3. T3 is not held tightly to protien and so many things can unbind it such as various medications like asperine, antihistimines, salycilates (in potatoes and tomatoes) changes in mineral balance and PH. The thyroid itself makes changes when it can't make enough T4. It increases the amount of T3 it makes instead of T4. Since T3 is the one that is most needed for energy for the body. The body also adapts by increasing the level of conversion of T4 to T3. So, that is why it is so common for people in the early stages of thryoid disease to have low T4, but normal T3. I was commenting about your T3 because was above the midline indicating that something is keeping the T3 in the blood. The most common cause is low adrenal. Most people have T3 at the midline or just below in early thyroid failure. But, it is also possible that your T3 test was not accurate and was giving too high of results. This can occur from testing error and from interference from anit-thyroid anitbodies. If you are able to do strenuous exercise without suffering later or getting insomnia, then you probably have pretty good adrenal reserve. However, I was able to walk 4 miles a day when I was hypoadrenal and hypothryoid up untill I finally crashed. If you crave salt, sugar and carbos, that is your body trying to get more adrenal output. Other low adrenal symptoms are, tight muscles in back and neck, thirst, sensitivity to bright light, blood pressure that drops when you go from lying down to standing, irritable bowel, low or high blood pressure, fatigue in the mornings which improves later in the day, getting your best sleep later in the morning, staying up late because you don't feel tired at night, palipitations especially in mornings or after a big meal in the evening, low blood sugar or hunger even though you know you have recently eaten, insomnia or poor sleep, getting up frequently at night to use the bathroom, slow recovery from illness or stress, stress makes you sick, and black circles under your eyes. There are many more symptoms, but maybe this will help. T4 down near the low end of the scale is a pretty clear indication of hypothyroidism. The reason is that a healthy thryoid stores a month or more worth of thyroid in the gland. So, it should be able to keep blood levels in the normal range under many hampering circumstances. So, once levels drop in the blood, that is a clear sign it has lost it's stores and no longer can keep up with demand. Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 I agree about ignoring the TSH and just do frees. Post where you are again in results and ranges please. help!!!!!!!! > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 > > hi tish, > > how would i otherwise know if i have adrenal fatigue? > ______________________ I forgot to answer your question about sensitivity to medicines. This is very common in hypothryoidism. The reason is that in hypothyroidism everything is slowed down, so the body cannot clear out medicines at the normal rate. The effect it that it greatly increases the potency of medicines and can turn normal doses into overdoses. It also makes things harder on the liver because it is responsible for the breakdown and removal of medicines. When it is slowed by hyppothyroidism medicines and their breakdown products build up in it, which can affect it's function and how you feel too. If you are talking about being sensitive to thyroid medication, then you are hypothryoid. Healthy people can take thryoid hormone with very few symptoms as they have the adrenal reserve to handle it and their thyroids just adjust down by what they are taking. A reaction to thyroid is an indication of low adrenal reserve which allows thyroid to build up in the blood and give overdose symptoms. Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 hi, ok here are my results tsh 0.05 ft4 .86 (.68-1.76) ft3 392 (210 - 440) thi smorning i took 1.5 25 mcg t4 is that more appropriate? i am debating between that and 1 grain armour + 50 mcg t4... thanks shana > > > > > > > > easy, get a new DR > > > > > > > > >From: " ptahia " <ptahia@y...> > > > > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones > > > > >To: NaturalThyroidHormones > > > > >Subject: help!!!!!!!! > > > > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 what were you taking when these results were taken? Have you had ferritin tested and are you on any female hormones? help!!!!!!!! > > > > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 what were you taking when these results were taken? Have you had ferritin tested and are you on any female hormones? help!!!!!!!! > > > > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 wow - thank you for all that information. a lot to digest. i also forgot to mention that i have had an RAI in 96, again i think because they were treating me according to tsh and nothing else. i was in the throes of hashi's and apparently had swung the other way.... so i have NO thyroid function. does that change any of this in terms of how my body and thryoid react to meds etc? i seem to have no problem with meds. i also love the effect armou rhas had on my life so far. i have so much more energy, endurance, enthusiasm etc. so i know the t3 has made a huge difference, but i think my numbers reflect that i convert well- or its because i took my meds before the test.... or i actually have adrenal fatigue. this is all too complicated! why would my tsh be so high if my t4 is low and my t3 is actually in a goo dplace in range? can you explain that? also if you can suggest a plan of action in regards to dosage that would be much appreciated. this morning i took 1.5 armour plau 25 mcgs t4 instead of 2 grains - what do you think? thanks for all your help. shana > > > > hi tish, > > > how would i otherwise know if i have adrenal fatigue? > > ______________________ > > I forgot to answer your question about sensitivity to medicines. > This is very common in hypothryoidism. The reason is that in > hypothyroidism everything is slowed down, so the body cannot clear > out medicines at the normal rate. The effect it that it greatly > increases the potency of medicines and can turn normal doses into > overdoses. It also makes things harder on the liver because it is > responsible for the breakdown and removal of medicines. When it is > slowed by hyppothyroidism medicines and their breakdown products > build up in it, which can affect it's function and how you feel too. > > If you are talking about being sensitive to thyroid medication, then > you are hypothryoid. Healthy people can take thryoid hormone with > very few symptoms as they have the adrenal reserve to handle it and > their thyroids just adjust down by what they are taking. A reaction > to thyroid is an indication of low adrenal reserve which allows > thyroid to build up in the blood and give overdose symptoms. > > Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 wow - thank you for all that information. a lot to digest. i also forgot to mention that i have had an RAI in 96, again i think because they were treating me according to tsh and nothing else. i was in the throes of hashi's and apparently had swung the other way.... so i have NO thyroid function. does that change any of this in terms of how my body and thryoid react to meds etc? i seem to have no problem with meds. i also love the effect armou rhas had on my life so far. i have so much more energy, endurance, enthusiasm etc. so i know the t3 has made a huge difference, but i think my numbers reflect that i convert well- or its because i took my meds before the test.... or i actually have adrenal fatigue. this is all too complicated! why would my tsh be so high if my t4 is low and my t3 is actually in a goo dplace in range? can you explain that? also if you can suggest a plan of action in regards to dosage that would be much appreciated. this morning i took 1.5 armour plau 25 mcgs t4 instead of 2 grains - what do you think? thanks for all your help. shana > > > > hi tish, > > > how would i otherwise know if i have adrenal fatigue? > > ______________________ > > I forgot to answer your question about sensitivity to medicines. > This is very common in hypothryoidism. The reason is that in > hypothyroidism everything is slowed down, so the body cannot clear > out medicines at the normal rate. The effect it that it greatly > increases the potency of medicines and can turn normal doses into > overdoses. It also makes things harder on the liver because it is > responsible for the breakdown and removal of medicines. When it is > slowed by hyppothyroidism medicines and their breakdown products > build up in it, which can affect it's function and how you feel too. > > If you are talking about being sensitive to thyroid medication, then > you are hypothryoid. Healthy people can take thryoid hormone with > very few symptoms as they have the adrenal reserve to handle it and > their thyroids just adjust down by what they are taking. A reaction > to thyroid is an indication of low adrenal reserve which allows > thyroid to build up in the blood and give overdose symptoms. > > Tish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 i was taking 2 grains of armour. i have not had ferritin tested. i can't promise that its ok but i do eat quite a bit of red meat. i am on bcp but with the lowest estrogen possible. what do you think? btw doesn't low ferritin inhinit tolerance of the meds? cuz i have no sign of that. shana > > > > > > > > > > easy, get a new DR > > > > > > > > > > >From: " ptahia " <ptahia@y...> > > > > > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones > > > > > >To: NaturalThyroidHormones > > > > > >Subject: help!!!!!!!! > > > > > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 i was taking 2 grains of armour. i have not had ferritin tested. i can't promise that its ok but i do eat quite a bit of red meat. i am on bcp but with the lowest estrogen possible. what do you think? btw doesn't low ferritin inhinit tolerance of the meds? cuz i have no sign of that. shana > > > > > > > > > > easy, get a new DR > > > > > > > > > > >From: " ptahia " <ptahia@y...> > > > > > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones > > > > > >To: NaturalThyroidHormones > > > > > >Subject: help!!!!!!!! > > > > > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 if you weigh more than 50 pounds and you were tested after the RAI and have NO thyroid function, then at 2 grains, those results surprise me. I would get off the synthroid and up to 2 1/2 grains if you have no actual thyroid production of your own for sure. I can tell you not all people that have had RAI lost all thyroid function. I thought they did till I talked to many people. For some it just slows. help!!!!!!!! > > > > > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 if you weigh more than 50 pounds and you were tested after the RAI and have NO thyroid function, then at 2 grains, those results surprise me. I would get off the synthroid and up to 2 1/2 grains if you have no actual thyroid production of your own for sure. I can tell you not all people that have had RAI lost all thyroid function. I thought they did till I talked to many people. For some it just slows. help!!!!!!!! > > > > > >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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