Re: What am I missing here?

[Guest guest]

>

> > > And if it is only that people were never meant to eat starches, what about

> > > the billions of people that eat starches every day? Why don't they get

sick?

>

> I'd like to respond to this, because FAR MORE people get sick on grains every

day than you think.

>

> http://scdgirl.blogspot.com

Well, yes... I was only trying to play devil's advocate for the doctors' point

of view. As far as they're concerned, everyone should come down with Crohn's if

diet is the problem. They still don't have a handle on the complexity of

genetics, environment and diet and the many outcomes that are possible from

varied influences.

[Guest guest]

> >>> It seems to me that only the bad bacteria are being starved by the

> >>> SCD.

> >>

> >> Nope. Objectively, that's not true. That's why we have to keep

> >> replacing the

> >> good ones.

There are several ways that bacteria in the gut maintain their position in the

food line. Some actually attach themselves to sites on the colon wall and so

are not easily removed by starvation. The purpose of the good bacteria is to

mainly provide a soothing effect on the gut lining so that it can heal and

restore its integrity. They are not able to attach to the intestinal walls, so

they get flushed out and need to be replaced. There are other bacteria that can

competitively displace harmful bacteria that attach to the intestinal walls, but

it needs more research to find ones that do not have harmful effects themselves

which can displace undesirables. Also, bacteria are able to persist in the

appendix, so it can be difficult to flush out all undesirable bacteria.

You have to remember that even the SCD does not 100% eliminate all sources of

undigested starches from the colon. Small amounts of starch allows some

undesirable bacteria to persist. The reason that they don't cause more trouble

is the intestinal lining. It is designed to prevent contact between the immune

system and the gut contents. When the lining is damaged or compromised, then

the trouble starts. That is why probiotics are so important - they help to

maintain the gut lining.

> >> Mara

> >>

> >

> > But you are only replacing 3 types of the good ones!!

>

> yeah - there are other kinds but not all of them are helpful

> for people with IBD. Or there are things like bifidus, which

> has many varieties - and the effect of them all is not known.

>

> It's an under researched field at the moment.

>

> Mara

>

[Guest guest]

At 08:47 PM 5/3/2009, you wrote:

I don't get why the GOOD

bacteria are being starved. It seems to me that they would have to have a

different food source from the undigested starches, because otherwise

they couldn't live in a healthy person who CAN digest their food! I'm so

confused.

My understanding is that the bad bacteria live off polysaccharides,

starches.

However, the good bacteria, specifically our yogurt bacteria, live off

disaccharides, like lactose.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

>

> >I don't get why the GOOD bacteria are being

> >starved. It seems to me that they would have to

> >have a different food source from the undigested

> >starches, because otherwise they couldn't live

> >in a healthy person who CAN digest their food! I'm so confused.

>

> My understanding is that the bad bacteria live off polysaccharides, starches.

>

> However, the good bacteria, specifically our

> yogurt bacteria, live off disaccharides, like lactose.

>

>

> — Marilyn

> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> Darn Good SCD Cook

> No Human Children

> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

>

Then they probably won't survive for long since there is no lactose (or

essentially none) when on SCD.

[Guest guest]

At 08:43 PM 5/5/2009, you wrote:

Then they probably won't survive

for long since there is no lactose (or essentially none) when on

SCD.

They live long enough to do what they're supposed to.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

>

> >I don't get why the GOOD bacteria are being

> >starved. It seems to me that they would have to

> >have a different food source from the undigested

> >starches, because otherwise they couldn't live

> >in a healthy person who CAN digest their food! I'm so confused.

>

> My understanding is that the bad bacteria live off polysaccharides, starches.

>

> However, the good bacteria, specifically our

> yogurt bacteria, live off disaccharides, like lactose.

>

>

> — Marilyn

> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> Darn Good SCD Cook

> No Human Children

> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Well, the bad bacteria will eat the simple sugars too. Limiting starches just

removes their advantage and makes them compete for simple sugars. I have

noticed a couple of oversimplifications and want to point out a couple of

details. Food is never going to be 100% digestible unless you eat a predigested

diet. Some of the protein, starch and sugars, even those found in the SCD, will

not be digested and will enter the gut. For example, see:

[url=http://www.atypon-link.com/AOAC/doi/abs/10.5555/jaoi.2005.88.3.967]AOAC[/ur\

l\

] For those of us with damage to their small intestine, even less of the food we

eat is digested and absorbed before it enters the colon. What I think happens

on the SCD is that the bad bacteria are limited by competition to a minor

position in the gut ecology and the beneficial bacteria, as a result of

supplementation, are more numerous. The beneficials have been shown to release

substances that shut down the gut immune system, resulting in less inflammation

and thus promoting healing. In fact many gut bacteria do the same kind of thing

- it is just self defense so that they can live undisturbed in the gut. In fact

a polysaccharide released by E. coli has been proposed as a treatment for

Crohn's because it is so good at inhibiting the inflammation of the gut.

[Guest guest]

>

> So you're saying that carbs aren't supposed to be digested, so that

> bacteria can eat them?

Most of the complex carbs are poorly digested and a lot passes into the gut.

That is why the SCD limits carbs - to avoid giving an advantage to the bad

bacteria that are able to eat undigested carbs. Even with the limited foods on

the SCD, there are still carbs in the nuts and vegetables which are not

digested. Just a lot less than would ordinarily be in the diet.

[Guest guest]

My father and uncles ate wheat out in the field all the time.  They liked it because it was chewy.  Now whether it was digested or not...(And you could say the same thing about pork, and chicken.)Humans can live on a 100% meat diet; we cannot live on a 100% vegetable diet without supplementation because of that pesky B12 thing. Whether one or the other- or some gradient between the two points- is what will make one live in perfect health forever and ever is a subject that will be debated in perpetuity.While there are some purely carnivorous primates (all tarsiers, I seem to recall), and there are some pure herbivores, the majority are somewhere in the middle- omnivores, like most humans.The Weston Price people- arguably one of the few groups that has their head screwed on straight when it comes to human nutrition- has some good comments on the subject:http://westonaprice .org/traditional _diets/gorilla. htmlNote also the intrinsic differences between primates that lean strongly towards herbivory (i.e., gorillas) and humans. Their stomachs and intestinal tracts are larger and longer, respectively, amongst other factors.Given the type and nature of maladies that strike humans after chronic exposure to large quantities of vegetable matter ("Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Taubes, kids!), it would seem likely that humans trend more towards carnivory. At the very least, consumption of large quantities of grains, starchy foods, and sugary foods- all of which have been bred for hundreds to thousands of years to produce the largest, starchiest, and sweetest fruits- is simply not good for us.Could you imagine what would happen to a zookeeper found feeding "Total" breakfast cereal to their gorillas? Or any

other breakfast cereal?That's a firin'. So why's it so good for your kids?-AJ>> Even if true carnivores guts are sterile, we aren't really true > carnivores, are we? If we evolved from primates, then we would more > likely be true fruit and leaf eaters than meat eaters.> > Alyssa> 

[Guest guest]

I just would like to reply that even though there are many out there who do not

believe in the Bible, it does give an accurate account of history. People have

been eating bread for a very long time. Did anyone ever wonder about all the

pestisides they put on the wheat, not to mention the way it is bleached, and

separated so it turns into glue after we eat it. If we ate it the way it was

meant to be eaten, maybe we all wouldn't be so sick. Of course it is not our

fault, the bread companies are the ones killing the wheat, along with the

non-organic farmers.

> >

> > Even if true carnivores guts are sterile, we aren't really true 

> > carnivores, are we? If we evolved from primates, then we would more 

> > likely be true fruit and leaf eaters than meat eaters.

> > 

> > Alyssa

> > 

>

[Guest guest]

There is a diet called the 'Maker's Diet' which is based off the Bible, and it's supposed to cure IBD and such. I have the book, but haven't read it thouroughly.ALyssaI just would like to reply that even though there are many out there who do not believe in the Bible, it does give an accurate account of history. People have been eating bread for a very long time. Did anyone ever wonder about all the pestisides they put on the wheat, not to mention the way it is bleached, and separated so it turns into glue after we eat it. If we ate it the way it was meant to be eaten, maybe we all wouldn't be so sick. Of course it is not our fault, the bread companies are the ones killing the wheat, along with the non-organic farmers.> >> > Even if true carnivores guts are sterile, we aren't really true > > carnivores, are we? If we evolved from primates, then we would more > > likely be true fruit and leaf eaters than meat eaters.> > > > Alyssa> > >

[Guest guest]

LOL. We discussed that a while back.

Rubin acts as though he has some genuine Essene source,

but it is based on a source text that is inauthentic - as in

it's a 20th century fake.

So - treat it as just a diet - maybe it works for you, maybe it doesn't,

like any other diet. There's no historical authenticity to it and

certainly no biblical one.

Jodi was also strongly of the opinion that he borrowed

shamelessly from Elaine without crediting her. And that

his written comments drastically underplayed the amount

of help he had gotten from her.

Mara

>

>

> There is a diet called the 'Maker's Diet' which is based off the

> Bible, and it's supposed to cure IBD and such. I have the book, but

> haven't read it thouroughly.

>

> ALyssa

>

[Guest guest]

The bible is not that old though, in the grand scheme of things. Here's a tidbit

from http://www.pecanbread.com/new/scdmore1.html:

" The Specific Carbohydrate Diet is biologically correct because it is species

appropriate.The allowed foods are those that early man ate before the

agricultural revolution. The diet of early man is one of meat, fish, eggs,

vegetables, nuts, low-sugar fruits, and certain oils. Starches, grains, pasta,

legumes, and breads have only been consumed for a mere 10,000 years. Many people

are not adapted to these types of foods yet. "

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

>

>

> I just would like to reply that even though there are many out there who do

not believe in the Bible, it does give an accurate account of history. People

have been eating bread for a very long time. Did anyone ever wonder about all

the pestisides they put on the wheat, not to mention the way it is bleached, and

separated so it turns into glue after we eat it. If we ate it the way it was

meant to be eaten, maybe we all wouldn't be so sick. Of course it is not our

fault, the bread companies are the ones killing the wheat, along with the

non-organic farmers.

>

>