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Oh ,

I positively feel your frustration! I would have been very upset too. It is

at the very least irresponsible to tell a patient it is OK to not take their

meds, much less saying that to an adolescent! I do think you should share

your concerns with your regular Neph.

I am so sorry you had such a frustrating visit.

I also hope things slow down for you at work. That sounds like a very rough

schedule.

The good news is that the protein and blood are under control, and lets pray

they stay that way!

In a message dated 12/30/2004 8:00:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,

snooksmama@... writes:

> I'm sorry I haven't been responding or posting very much. I do try to

> read the posts, but have had trouble keeping up. I finally was able to

> get a new computer, so that problem is solved. Unfortunately, the other

> admissions nurse in my department was suspended, and then had a scheduled

> vacation, so I have been working and on call for the last 10 out of 11

> days. It has been very hectic.

> I did get Tuesday off to take Rob to his rheumatology and nephrology

> appts.

> Rob's regular nephrologist was out of town. I just love this doctor, Dr.

> Devarajan. He is wonderful. Unfortunately, we had to go on and schedule

> with another nephrologist in the group, because we have to travel 120

> miles to the appts for rheumy and neph, and I do not like to take Rob out

> of school, so I wanted him to be seen during Christmas break.

> This nephrologist, who had never seen Rob before, made me so mad I

> thought I was going to blow a gasket!

> We did have great news, the Cozaar is continuing to control the protein

> and blood in his urine. We were so happy to hear about that!

> The neph, on the other hand....started talking to Rob about how

> proteinuria damages the kidneys. Then, he says, at some point, Rob could

> go off the Cozaar just to see if the hematuria and proteinuria would

> still occur. This led him into talking about how he knows that lots of

> patients don't take their meds, and its ok if they do that, and he could

> take a drug holiday during the summer, and just see what happens!! Rob,

> of course, absolutely LOVED this idea. I was livid! I looked the neph

> squarely in the eye, and said, I CANNOT BELIEVE that you just told an

> ADOLESCENT that its ok not to take meds! He hemmed and hawed around, and

> then asked me if I was interested in having a definitive diagnosis. I

> told him that Dr. D. was fairly sure of the Alport's diagnosis, and that

> Dr. Kashtan of U Minn agreed, and he poo pooed that too. Of course, he

> had not even gone completely through Robs chart and I had to fill him in

> on many things. But, it was like he was out to undermine everything that

> had taken place! Granted, it would be wonderful if Rob didn't have

> Alports, but the biopsy clearly showed irregularities, and there is no

> other explanation for what he has, other than diabetic nephropathy, and

> we know he is not diabetic. So this guy was absolutely irritating and

> maddening! I have been waiting to calm down (but I find that I just keep

> getting madder!), I plan to email Dr. D and tell him just how disgusted I

> was about what he told Rob. It is hard enough to get a teenager to take

> his meds, and Rob also has an exercise regimen he must do to keep things

> limber (because of the ankylosing spondylitis). He faces his spine fusing

> in about 10 years. It is imperative that he diligently exercise in order

> to prevent it fusing in a 'bad' position. Meds are the one thing Rob has

> been compliant with, but the exercises, no. But at least he is compliant

> with meds, that is until Dr. 'HELPFUL' told him no need!

> The rheumy did read Rob the riot act about the exercises, so at least

> SOMEONE cares if he is compliant!!

> Ok, thanks for listening!

> , mom to Rob, 15

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I'm sorry I haven't been responding or posting very much. I do try to

read the posts, but have had trouble keeping up. I finally was able to

get a new computer, so that problem is solved. Unfortunately, the other

admissions nurse in my department was suspended, and then had a scheduled

vacation, so I have been working and on call for the last 10 out of 11

days. It has been very hectic.

I did get Tuesday off to take Rob to his rheumatology and nephrology

appts.

Rob's regular nephrologist was out of town. I just love this doctor, Dr.

Devarajan. He is wonderful. Unfortunately, we had to go on and schedule

with another nephrologist in the group, because we have to travel 120

miles to the appts for rheumy and neph, and I do not like to take Rob out

of school, so I wanted him to be seen during Christmas break.

This nephrologist, who had never seen Rob before, made me so mad I

thought I was going to blow a gasket!

We did have great news, the Cozaar is continuing to control the protein

and blood in his urine. We were so happy to hear about that!

The neph, on the other hand....started talking to Rob about how

proteinuria damages the kidneys. Then, he says, at some point, Rob could

go off the Cozaar just to see if the hematuria and proteinuria would

still occur. This led him into talking about how he knows that lots of

patients don't take their meds, and its ok if they do that, and he could

take a drug holiday during the summer, and just see what happens!! Rob,

of course, absolutely LOVED this idea. I was livid! I looked the neph

squarely in the eye, and said, I CANNOT BELIEVE that you just told an

ADOLESCENT that its ok not to take meds! He hemmed and hawed around, and

then asked me if I was interested in having a definitive diagnosis. I

told him that Dr. D. was fairly sure of the Alport's diagnosis, and that

Dr. Kashtan of U Minn agreed, and he poo pooed that too. Of course, he

had not even gone completely through Robs chart and I had to fill him in

on many things. But, it was like he was out to undermine everything that

had taken place! Granted, it would be wonderful if Rob didn't have

Alports, but the biopsy clearly showed irregularities, and there is no

other explanation for what he has, other than diabetic nephropathy, and

we know he is not diabetic. So this guy was absolutely irritating and

maddening! I have been waiting to calm down (but I find that I just keep

getting madder!), I plan to email Dr. D and tell him just how disgusted I

was about what he told Rob. It is hard enough to get a teenager to take

his meds, and Rob also has an exercise regimen he must do to keep things

limber (because of the ankylosing spondylitis). He faces his spine fusing

in about 10 years. It is imperative that he diligently exercise in order

to prevent it fusing in a 'bad' position. Meds are the one thing Rob has

been compliant with, but the exercises, no. But at least he is compliant

with meds, that is until Dr. 'HELPFUL' told him no need!

The rheumy did read Rob the riot act about the exercises, so at least

SOMEONE cares if he is compliant!!

Ok, thanks for listening!

, mom to Rob, 15

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Oh !

What an utter slimebag! How I HATE the " hadn't read the patient's chart "

problem. This is simply just poor medicine. I ran into this frequently

with my husband's docs before he died and a good friend of mine runs into

with her son's docs. Assuming that you're not showing up in the ER with an

emergency situation, the very least they could do is scan the recent letters

and labs. I would definately write that email to Dr. D - who will hopefully

read the guy the riot act. It is very hard being the parent of an

adolescent - when the adults around you act like such buffoons.

We ran into something similar once ( but nowheres in the same league as the

bozo you encountered) when the docs at Packard sprung a resident on us. I

began to ask a question about C3NF - and the guy kept giving me answers that

were appropriate for C3 (apparently he never finished reading the chapter in

his immunology textbook about complement). I refused to back down - and he

refused to appreciate the distinction. After he trotted off to ask his boss

(leaving me feeling very much like I was at the car dealers waiting to speak

to the manager!), the attending came in. Fortunately, it's never happened

to us again. I often think of Pierre's line a long time ago to the effect

that you're paying for the guy's experience - not necessarily his time (I

think Pierre said that once in response to patients complaining about very

short appointments). At the very least, you should get the experience!

Would it be appropriate for you to ask Dr. D to have a one-on-one

conversation with Rob and steer him straight about the relative importance

of meds? Do you think he'd be willing to give Rob a call at home? That

might help. I think you're standing your ground in front of Rob will also

make an important impression. has seen me politely (and OK,

sometimes not so politely) question the docs and try to get an explanation

(i.e. not blinding letting them put him on clonidine recently). I always

try to do it with the sense that adults aren't always right (no surprise

there) and asking educated questions instead of blindly following the doc

allows you to take better care of yourself. Our guys are at that threshold

of taking care of themselves - which is a scary thing to contemplate.

As impossible as it sounds, I hope you guys have a peaceful weekend.

Cy

Re: Rob update

>

> I'm sorry I haven't been responding or posting very much. I do try to

> read the posts, but have had trouble keeping up. I finally was able to

> get a new computer, so that problem is solved. Unfortunately, the other

> admissions nurse in my department was suspended, and then had a scheduled

> vacation, so I have been working and on call for the last 10 out of 11

> days. It has been very hectic.

> I did get Tuesday off to take Rob to his rheumatology and nephrology

> appts.

> Rob's regular nephrologist was out of town. I just love this doctor, Dr.

> Devarajan. He is wonderful. Unfortunately, we had to go on and schedule

> with another nephrologist in the group, because we have to travel 120

> miles to the appts for rheumy and neph, and I do not like to take Rob out

> of school, so I wanted him to be seen during Christmas break.

> This nephrologist, who had never seen Rob before, made me so mad I

> thought I was going to blow a gasket!

> We did have great news, the Cozaar is continuing to control the protein

> and blood in his urine. We were so happy to hear about that!

> The neph, on the other hand....started talking to Rob about how

> proteinuria damages the kidneys. Then, he says, at some point, Rob could

> go off the Cozaar just to see if the hematuria and proteinuria would

> still occur. This led him into talking about how he knows that lots of

> patients don't take their meds, and its ok if they do that, and he could

> take a drug holiday during the summer, and just see what happens!! Rob,

> of course, absolutely LOVED this idea. I was livid! I looked the neph

> squarely in the eye, and said, I CANNOT BELIEVE that you just told an

> ADOLESCENT that its ok not to take meds! He hemmed and hawed around, and

> then asked me if I was interested in having a definitive diagnosis. I

> told him that Dr. D. was fairly sure of the Alport's diagnosis, and that

> Dr. Kashtan of U Minn agreed, and he poo pooed that too. Of course, he

> had not even gone completely through Robs chart and I had to fill him in

> on many things. But, it was like he was out to undermine everything that

> had taken place! Granted, it would be wonderful if Rob didn't have

> Alports, but the biopsy clearly showed irregularities, and there is no

> other explanation for what he has, other than diabetic nephropathy, and

> we know he is not diabetic. So this guy was absolutely irritating and

> maddening! I have been waiting to calm down (but I find that I just keep

> getting madder!), I plan to email Dr. D and tell him just how disgusted I

> was about what he told Rob. It is hard enough to get a teenager to take

> his meds, and Rob also has an exercise regimen he must do to keep things

> limber (because of the ankylosing spondylitis). He faces his spine fusing

> in about 10 years. It is imperative that he diligently exercise in order

> to prevent it fusing in a 'bad' position. Meds are the one thing Rob has

> been compliant with, but the exercises, no. But at least he is compliant

> with meds, that is until Dr. 'HELPFUL' told him no need!

> The rheumy did read Rob the riot act about the exercises, so at least

> SOMEONE cares if he is compliant!!

> Ok, thanks for listening!

> , mom to Rob, 15

>

>

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Oh !

What an utter slimebag! How I HATE the " hadn't read the patient's chart "

problem. This is simply just poor medicine. I ran into this frequently

with my husband's docs before he died and a good friend of mine runs into

with her son's docs. Assuming that you're not showing up in the ER with an

emergency situation, the very least they could do is scan the recent letters

and labs. I would definately write that email to Dr. D - who will hopefully

read the guy the riot act. It is very hard being the parent of an

adolescent - when the adults around you act like such buffoons.

We ran into something similar once ( but nowheres in the same league as the

bozo you encountered) when the docs at Packard sprung a resident on us. I

began to ask a question about C3NF - and the guy kept giving me answers that

were appropriate for C3 (apparently he never finished reading the chapter in

his immunology textbook about complement). I refused to back down - and he

refused to appreciate the distinction. After he trotted off to ask his boss

(leaving me feeling very much like I was at the car dealers waiting to speak

to the manager!), the attending came in. Fortunately, it's never happened

to us again. I often think of Pierre's line a long time ago to the effect

that you're paying for the guy's experience - not necessarily his time (I

think Pierre said that once in response to patients complaining about very

short appointments). At the very least, you should get the experience!

Would it be appropriate for you to ask Dr. D to have a one-on-one

conversation with Rob and steer him straight about the relative importance

of meds? Do you think he'd be willing to give Rob a call at home? That

might help. I think you're standing your ground in front of Rob will also

make an important impression. has seen me politely (and OK,

sometimes not so politely) question the docs and try to get an explanation

(i.e. not blinding letting them put him on clonidine recently). I always

try to do it with the sense that adults aren't always right (no surprise

there) and asking educated questions instead of blindly following the doc

allows you to take better care of yourself. Our guys are at that threshold

of taking care of themselves - which is a scary thing to contemplate.

As impossible as it sounds, I hope you guys have a peaceful weekend.

Cy

Re: Rob update

>

> I'm sorry I haven't been responding or posting very much. I do try to

> read the posts, but have had trouble keeping up. I finally was able to

> get a new computer, so that problem is solved. Unfortunately, the other

> admissions nurse in my department was suspended, and then had a scheduled

> vacation, so I have been working and on call for the last 10 out of 11

> days. It has been very hectic.

> I did get Tuesday off to take Rob to his rheumatology and nephrology

> appts.

> Rob's regular nephrologist was out of town. I just love this doctor, Dr.

> Devarajan. He is wonderful. Unfortunately, we had to go on and schedule

> with another nephrologist in the group, because we have to travel 120

> miles to the appts for rheumy and neph, and I do not like to take Rob out

> of school, so I wanted him to be seen during Christmas break.

> This nephrologist, who had never seen Rob before, made me so mad I

> thought I was going to blow a gasket!

> We did have great news, the Cozaar is continuing to control the protein

> and blood in his urine. We were so happy to hear about that!

> The neph, on the other hand....started talking to Rob about how

> proteinuria damages the kidneys. Then, he says, at some point, Rob could

> go off the Cozaar just to see if the hematuria and proteinuria would

> still occur. This led him into talking about how he knows that lots of

> patients don't take their meds, and its ok if they do that, and he could

> take a drug holiday during the summer, and just see what happens!! Rob,

> of course, absolutely LOVED this idea. I was livid! I looked the neph

> squarely in the eye, and said, I CANNOT BELIEVE that you just told an

> ADOLESCENT that its ok not to take meds! He hemmed and hawed around, and

> then asked me if I was interested in having a definitive diagnosis. I

> told him that Dr. D. was fairly sure of the Alport's diagnosis, and that

> Dr. Kashtan of U Minn agreed, and he poo pooed that too. Of course, he

> had not even gone completely through Robs chart and I had to fill him in

> on many things. But, it was like he was out to undermine everything that

> had taken place! Granted, it would be wonderful if Rob didn't have

> Alports, but the biopsy clearly showed irregularities, and there is no

> other explanation for what he has, other than diabetic nephropathy, and

> we know he is not diabetic. So this guy was absolutely irritating and

> maddening! I have been waiting to calm down (but I find that I just keep

> getting madder!), I plan to email Dr. D and tell him just how disgusted I

> was about what he told Rob. It is hard enough to get a teenager to take

> his meds, and Rob also has an exercise regimen he must do to keep things

> limber (because of the ankylosing spondylitis). He faces his spine fusing

> in about 10 years. It is imperative that he diligently exercise in order

> to prevent it fusing in a 'bad' position. Meds are the one thing Rob has

> been compliant with, but the exercises, no. But at least he is compliant

> with meds, that is until Dr. 'HELPFUL' told him no need!

> The rheumy did read Rob the riot act about the exercises, so at least

> SOMEONE cares if he is compliant!!

> Ok, thanks for listening!

> , mom to Rob, 15

>

>

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To play devil's advocate just for a minute...

I've been on " drug holidays " myself a number of times in the past during the

1990's - doctor's orders. You know, while an ACE inhibitor does reduce

proteinuria, it also worsens kidney function a bit as it does it. In some

patients, hopefully a very small minority, it can worsen kidney function by

more than 30%, to the point that some people actually have to stop taking

it. Some people have actually had acute kidney failure from taking an ACE

inhibitor. Sometimes, it might be appropriate to see how a patient does

without the drug, if something like this might be suspected. Sometimes it

needs to be stopped because it just raises potassium too much.

When you stop taking an ACE inhibitor, it's not like stopping some other BP

meds. The blood pressure just goes back up to where it normally sits without

medication. There's no dramatic rebound or anything like that. So, if a

person doesn't have severely-elevated BP to begin with, a drug holiday

should be perfectly safe. Sometimes, a drug holiday is forced on the person

for another reason: drug washout. There are times when it might be necessary

to stop taking a BP med for 2 or 3 weeks, long enough for it to washout

completely, before trying another one.

I don't think patients on BP meds should take drug holidays on their own,

but if the doc says to stop taking it for a couple of weeks, that's a

different story.

One thing to remember about proteinuria is that there is a lot of natural

variability there. It can go up, and then, it just resolves itself,

medication or no medication. So, it's not like stopping the ACE inhibitor

for a while will automatically cause a big jump.

I can understand you being upset, but could it be that the nephrologist just

didn't explain his intentions well? Of course, encouraging someone to not

take a med on their own whenever they want is a different story.

Pierre

Re: Rob update

>

> I'm sorry I haven't been responding or posting very much. I do try to

> read the posts, but have had trouble keeping up. I finally was able to

> get a new computer, so that problem is solved. Unfortunately, the other

> admissions nurse in my department was suspended, and then had a scheduled

> vacation, so I have been working and on call for the last 10 out of 11

> days. It has been very hectic.

> I did get Tuesday off to take Rob to his rheumatology and nephrology

> appts.

> Rob's regular nephrologist was out of town. I just love this doctor, Dr.

> Devarajan. He is wonderful. Unfortunately, we had to go on and schedule

> with another nephrologist in the group, because we have to travel 120

> miles to the appts for rheumy and neph, and I do not like to take Rob out

> of school, so I wanted him to be seen during Christmas break.

> This nephrologist, who had never seen Rob before, made me so mad I

> thought I was going to blow a gasket!

> We did have great news, the Cozaar is continuing to control the protein

> and blood in his urine. We were so happy to hear about that!

> The neph, on the other hand....started talking to Rob about how

> proteinuria damages the kidneys. Then, he says, at some point, Rob could

> go off the Cozaar just to see if the hematuria and proteinuria would

> still occur. This led him into talking about how he knows that lots of

> patients don't take their meds, and its ok if they do that, and he could

> take a drug holiday during the summer, and just see what happens!! Rob,

> of course, absolutely LOVED this idea. I was livid! I looked the neph

> squarely in the eye, and said, I CANNOT BELIEVE that you just told an

> ADOLESCENT that its ok not to take meds! He hemmed and hawed around, and

> then asked me if I was interested in having a definitive diagnosis. I

> told him that Dr. D. was fairly sure of the Alport's diagnosis, and that

> Dr. Kashtan of U Minn agreed, and he poo pooed that too. Of course, he

> had not even gone completely through Robs chart and I had to fill him in

> on many things. But, it was like he was out to undermine everything that

> had taken place! Granted, it would be wonderful if Rob didn't have

> Alports, but the biopsy clearly showed irregularities, and there is no

> other explanation for what he has, other than diabetic nephropathy, and

> we know he is not diabetic. So this guy was absolutely irritating and

> maddening! I have been waiting to calm down (but I find that I just keep

> getting madder!), I plan to email Dr. D and tell him just how disgusted I

> was about what he told Rob. It is hard enough to get a teenager to take

> his meds, and Rob also has an exercise regimen he must do to keep things

> limber (because of the ankylosing spondylitis). He faces his spine fusing

> in about 10 years. It is imperative that he diligently exercise in order

> to prevent it fusing in a 'bad' position. Meds are the one thing Rob has

> been compliant with, but the exercises, no. But at least he is compliant

> with meds, that is until Dr. 'HELPFUL' told him no need!

> The rheumy did read Rob the riot act about the exercises, so at least

> SOMEONE cares if he is compliant!!

> Ok, thanks for listening!

> , mom to Rob, 15

>

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Share on other sites

To play devil's advocate just for a minute...

I've been on " drug holidays " myself a number of times in the past during the

1990's - doctor's orders. You know, while an ACE inhibitor does reduce

proteinuria, it also worsens kidney function a bit as it does it. In some

patients, hopefully a very small minority, it can worsen kidney function by

more than 30%, to the point that some people actually have to stop taking

it. Some people have actually had acute kidney failure from taking an ACE

inhibitor. Sometimes, it might be appropriate to see how a patient does

without the drug, if something like this might be suspected. Sometimes it

needs to be stopped because it just raises potassium too much.

When you stop taking an ACE inhibitor, it's not like stopping some other BP

meds. The blood pressure just goes back up to where it normally sits without

medication. There's no dramatic rebound or anything like that. So, if a

person doesn't have severely-elevated BP to begin with, a drug holiday

should be perfectly safe. Sometimes, a drug holiday is forced on the person

for another reason: drug washout. There are times when it might be necessary

to stop taking a BP med for 2 or 3 weeks, long enough for it to washout

completely, before trying another one.

I don't think patients on BP meds should take drug holidays on their own,

but if the doc says to stop taking it for a couple of weeks, that's a

different story.

One thing to remember about proteinuria is that there is a lot of natural

variability there. It can go up, and then, it just resolves itself,

medication or no medication. So, it's not like stopping the ACE inhibitor

for a while will automatically cause a big jump.

I can understand you being upset, but could it be that the nephrologist just

didn't explain his intentions well? Of course, encouraging someone to not

take a med on their own whenever they want is a different story.

Pierre

Re: Rob update

>

> I'm sorry I haven't been responding or posting very much. I do try to

> read the posts, but have had trouble keeping up. I finally was able to

> get a new computer, so that problem is solved. Unfortunately, the other

> admissions nurse in my department was suspended, and then had a scheduled

> vacation, so I have been working and on call for the last 10 out of 11

> days. It has been very hectic.

> I did get Tuesday off to take Rob to his rheumatology and nephrology

> appts.

> Rob's regular nephrologist was out of town. I just love this doctor, Dr.

> Devarajan. He is wonderful. Unfortunately, we had to go on and schedule

> with another nephrologist in the group, because we have to travel 120

> miles to the appts for rheumy and neph, and I do not like to take Rob out

> of school, so I wanted him to be seen during Christmas break.

> This nephrologist, who had never seen Rob before, made me so mad I

> thought I was going to blow a gasket!

> We did have great news, the Cozaar is continuing to control the protein

> and blood in his urine. We were so happy to hear about that!

> The neph, on the other hand....started talking to Rob about how

> proteinuria damages the kidneys. Then, he says, at some point, Rob could

> go off the Cozaar just to see if the hematuria and proteinuria would

> still occur. This led him into talking about how he knows that lots of

> patients don't take their meds, and its ok if they do that, and he could

> take a drug holiday during the summer, and just see what happens!! Rob,

> of course, absolutely LOVED this idea. I was livid! I looked the neph

> squarely in the eye, and said, I CANNOT BELIEVE that you just told an

> ADOLESCENT that its ok not to take meds! He hemmed and hawed around, and

> then asked me if I was interested in having a definitive diagnosis. I

> told him that Dr. D. was fairly sure of the Alport's diagnosis, and that

> Dr. Kashtan of U Minn agreed, and he poo pooed that too. Of course, he

> had not even gone completely through Robs chart and I had to fill him in

> on many things. But, it was like he was out to undermine everything that

> had taken place! Granted, it would be wonderful if Rob didn't have

> Alports, but the biopsy clearly showed irregularities, and there is no

> other explanation for what he has, other than diabetic nephropathy, and

> we know he is not diabetic. So this guy was absolutely irritating and

> maddening! I have been waiting to calm down (but I find that I just keep

> getting madder!), I plan to email Dr. D and tell him just how disgusted I

> was about what he told Rob. It is hard enough to get a teenager to take

> his meds, and Rob also has an exercise regimen he must do to keep things

> limber (because of the ankylosing spondylitis). He faces his spine fusing

> in about 10 years. It is imperative that he diligently exercise in order

> to prevent it fusing in a 'bad' position. Meds are the one thing Rob has

> been compliant with, but the exercises, no. But at least he is compliant

> with meds, that is until Dr. 'HELPFUL' told him no need!

> The rheumy did read Rob the riot act about the exercises, so at least

> SOMEONE cares if he is compliant!!

> Ok, thanks for listening!

> , mom to Rob, 15

>

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Forwarding Rob's neph's response to my complaint. He is such a

professional, that I am sure he did not want to comment on my displeasure

with his colleague. However, I know beyond a doubt that he will speak to

him about my concerns.He has always gone out of his way to make sure that

we were happy with their services. For now, I'll have another talk with

Rob and make sure we always can schedule with Dr. D!!

Thanks for all your thoughts on this subject.

, mom to Rob, 15

(who had a remarkably light day at work today and is already back home!!!

YEAH!)

Hi ,

Thanks for writing. For now, the kidney biopsy electron microscopy is

typical for Alport, but we have no way of absolutely confirming the

diagnosis. The genetic testing is quite expensive, not covered by

insurance companies, and can be inconclusive (just like the

immunofluorescence testing that we went through). In the meanwhile, I

am glad that the protein and blood in the urine have resolved with the

Cozaar. Whatever the underlying diagnosis, I think it is important to

continue the Cozaar for now. Cozaar seems to have a remarkable

protective effect on the kidney, irrespective of the specific kidney

disease. After a year or so on the cozaar, we may try a supervised

discontinuation and see what happens. This means stopping the cozaar

about 1 week before a scheduled visit with nephrology. I think that is

what Dr. Goebel meant. For now, I am very pleased with Rob's response,

and agree with a follow up visit in 6 months. Keep up the great work!

Please let me know if he develops gross hematuria in the interim. We

wish you and your family a wonderful 2005.

Prasad Devarajan, M.D.

Louise M. Professor of Pediatrics

and Developmental Biology

Director of Nephrology and Hypertension

Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center

3333 Burnet Avenue, MLC 7022

Cincinnati, OH 45229-3039

Fax

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I'm so glad Rob responded well to the Cozaar. It's always good to have a

drug that works!

Congrats on getting home early.

Cy

Re: Rob update

>

>

> Forwarding Rob's neph's response to my complaint. He is such a

> professional, that I am sure he did not want to comment on my displeasure

> with his colleague. However, I know beyond a doubt that he will speak to

> him about my concerns.He has always gone out of his way to make sure that

> we were happy with their services. For now, I'll have another talk with

> Rob and make sure we always can schedule with Dr. D!!

> Thanks for all your thoughts on this subject.

> , mom to Rob, 15

> (who had a remarkably light day at work today and is already back home!!!

> YEAH!)

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> Thanks for writing. For now, the kidney biopsy electron microscopy is

> typical for Alport, but we have no way of absolutely confirming the

> diagnosis. The genetic testing is quite expensive, not covered by

> insurance companies, and can be inconclusive (just like the

> immunofluorescence testing that we went through). In the meanwhile, I

> am glad that the protein and blood in the urine have resolved with the

> Cozaar. Whatever the underlying diagnosis, I think it is important to

> continue the Cozaar for now. Cozaar seems to have a remarkable

> protective effect on the kidney, irrespective of the specific kidney

> disease. After a year or so on the cozaar, we may try a supervised

> discontinuation and see what happens. This means stopping the cozaar

> about 1 week before a scheduled visit with nephrology. I think that is

> what Dr. Goebel meant. For now, I am very pleased with Rob's response,

> and agree with a follow up visit in 6 months. Keep up the great work!

> Please let me know if he develops gross hematuria in the interim. We

> wish you and your family a wonderful 2005.

>

> Prasad Devarajan, M.D.

> Louise M. Professor of Pediatrics

> and Developmental Biology

> Director of Nephrology and Hypertension

> Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center

> 3333 Burnet Avenue, MLC 7022

> Cincinnati, OH 45229-3039

>

> Fax

>

>

>

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi , my daughter also sees the nephrologists at Children's. We're

scheduled to see Dr. Davarajan on the 22nd. I'm sorry you had such a

horrible experience. I also feel it is very important that children know

how important it is to take their meds as directed. I was curious to know

which Doctor you saw?

Tara, mom to Allie Beth

Re: Rob update

I'm sorry I haven't been responding or posting very much. I do try to

read the posts, but have had trouble keeping up. I finally was able to

get a new computer, so that problem is solved. Unfortunately, the other

admissions nurse in my department was suspended, and then had a scheduled

vacation, so I have been working and on call for the last 10 out of 11

days. It has been very hectic.

I did get Tuesday off to take Rob to his rheumatology and nephrology

appts.

Rob's regular nephrologist was out of town. I just love this doctor, Dr.

Devarajan. He is wonderful. Unfortunately, we had to go on and schedule

with another nephrologist in the group, because we have to travel 120

miles to the appts for rheumy and neph, and I do not like to take Rob out

of school, so I wanted him to be seen during Christmas break.

This nephrologist, who had never seen Rob before, made me so mad I

thought I was going to blow a gasket!

We did have great news, the Cozaar is continuing to control the protein

and blood in his urine. We were so happy to hear about that!

The neph, on the other hand....started talking to Rob about how

proteinuria damages the kidneys. Then, he says, at some point, Rob could

go off the Cozaar just to see if the hematuria and proteinuria would

still occur. This led him into talking about how he knows that lots of

patients don't take their meds, and its ok if they do that, and he could

take a drug holiday during the summer, and just see what happens!! Rob,

of course, absolutely LOVED this idea. I was livid! I looked the neph

squarely in the eye, and said, I CANNOT BELIEVE that you just told an

ADOLESCENT that its ok not to take meds! He hemmed and hawed around, and

then asked me if I was interested in having a definitive diagnosis. I

told him that Dr. D. was fairly sure of the Alport's diagnosis, and that

Dr. Kashtan of U Minn agreed, and he poo pooed that too. Of course, he

had not even gone completely through Robs chart and I had to fill him in

on many things. But, it was like he was out to undermine everything that

had taken place! Granted, it would be wonderful if Rob didn't have

Alports, but the biopsy clearly showed irregularities, and there is no

other explanation for what he has, other than diabetic nephropathy, and

we know he is not diabetic. So this guy was absolutely irritating and

maddening! I have been waiting to calm down (but I find that I just keep

getting madder!), I plan to email Dr. D and tell him just how disgusted I

was about what he told Rob. It is hard enough to get a teenager to take

his meds, and Rob also has an exercise regimen he must do to keep things

limber (because of the ankylosing spondylitis). He faces his spine fusing

in about 10 years. It is imperative that he diligently exercise in order

to prevent it fusing in a 'bad' position. Meds are the one thing Rob has

been compliant with, but the exercises, no. But at least he is compliant

with meds, that is until Dr. 'HELPFUL' told him no need!

The rheumy did read Rob the riot act about the exercises, so at least

SOMEONE cares if he is compliant!!

Ok, thanks for listening!

, mom to Rob, 15

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Hi , my daughter also sees the nephrologists at Children's. We're

scheduled to see Dr. Davarajan on the 22nd. I'm sorry you had such a

horrible experience. I also feel it is very important that children know

how important it is to take their meds as directed. I was curious to know

which Doctor you saw?

Tara, mom to Allie Beth

Re: Rob update

I'm sorry I haven't been responding or posting very much. I do try to

read the posts, but have had trouble keeping up. I finally was able to

get a new computer, so that problem is solved. Unfortunately, the other

admissions nurse in my department was suspended, and then had a scheduled

vacation, so I have been working and on call for the last 10 out of 11

days. It has been very hectic.

I did get Tuesday off to take Rob to his rheumatology and nephrology

appts.

Rob's regular nephrologist was out of town. I just love this doctor, Dr.

Devarajan. He is wonderful. Unfortunately, we had to go on and schedule

with another nephrologist in the group, because we have to travel 120

miles to the appts for rheumy and neph, and I do not like to take Rob out

of school, so I wanted him to be seen during Christmas break.

This nephrologist, who had never seen Rob before, made me so mad I

thought I was going to blow a gasket!

We did have great news, the Cozaar is continuing to control the protein

and blood in his urine. We were so happy to hear about that!

The neph, on the other hand....started talking to Rob about how

proteinuria damages the kidneys. Then, he says, at some point, Rob could

go off the Cozaar just to see if the hematuria and proteinuria would

still occur. This led him into talking about how he knows that lots of

patients don't take their meds, and its ok if they do that, and he could

take a drug holiday during the summer, and just see what happens!! Rob,

of course, absolutely LOVED this idea. I was livid! I looked the neph

squarely in the eye, and said, I CANNOT BELIEVE that you just told an

ADOLESCENT that its ok not to take meds! He hemmed and hawed around, and

then asked me if I was interested in having a definitive diagnosis. I

told him that Dr. D. was fairly sure of the Alport's diagnosis, and that

Dr. Kashtan of U Minn agreed, and he poo pooed that too. Of course, he

had not even gone completely through Robs chart and I had to fill him in

on many things. But, it was like he was out to undermine everything that

had taken place! Granted, it would be wonderful if Rob didn't have

Alports, but the biopsy clearly showed irregularities, and there is no

other explanation for what he has, other than diabetic nephropathy, and

we know he is not diabetic. So this guy was absolutely irritating and

maddening! I have been waiting to calm down (but I find that I just keep

getting madder!), I plan to email Dr. D and tell him just how disgusted I

was about what he told Rob. It is hard enough to get a teenager to take

his meds, and Rob also has an exercise regimen he must do to keep things

limber (because of the ankylosing spondylitis). He faces his spine fusing

in about 10 years. It is imperative that he diligently exercise in order

to prevent it fusing in a 'bad' position. Meds are the one thing Rob has

been compliant with, but the exercises, no. But at least he is compliant

with meds, that is until Dr. 'HELPFUL' told him no need!

The rheumy did read Rob the riot act about the exercises, so at least

SOMEONE cares if he is compliant!!

Ok, thanks for listening!

, mom to Rob, 15

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Hi , my daughter also sees the nephrologists at Children's. We're

scheduled to see Dr. Davarajan on the 22nd. I'm sorry you had such a

horrible experience. I also feel it is very important that children know

how important it is to take their meds as directed. I was curious to know

which Doctor you saw?

Tara, mom to Allie Beth

Re: Rob update

I'm sorry I haven't been responding or posting very much. I do try to

read the posts, but have had trouble keeping up. I finally was able to

get a new computer, so that problem is solved. Unfortunately, the other

admissions nurse in my department was suspended, and then had a scheduled

vacation, so I have been working and on call for the last 10 out of 11

days. It has been very hectic.

I did get Tuesday off to take Rob to his rheumatology and nephrology

appts.

Rob's regular nephrologist was out of town. I just love this doctor, Dr.

Devarajan. He is wonderful. Unfortunately, we had to go on and schedule

with another nephrologist in the group, because we have to travel 120

miles to the appts for rheumy and neph, and I do not like to take Rob out

of school, so I wanted him to be seen during Christmas break.

This nephrologist, who had never seen Rob before, made me so mad I

thought I was going to blow a gasket!

We did have great news, the Cozaar is continuing to control the protein

and blood in his urine. We were so happy to hear about that!

The neph, on the other hand....started talking to Rob about how

proteinuria damages the kidneys. Then, he says, at some point, Rob could

go off the Cozaar just to see if the hematuria and proteinuria would

still occur. This led him into talking about how he knows that lots of

patients don't take their meds, and its ok if they do that, and he could

take a drug holiday during the summer, and just see what happens!! Rob,

of course, absolutely LOVED this idea. I was livid! I looked the neph

squarely in the eye, and said, I CANNOT BELIEVE that you just told an

ADOLESCENT that its ok not to take meds! He hemmed and hawed around, and

then asked me if I was interested in having a definitive diagnosis. I

told him that Dr. D. was fairly sure of the Alport's diagnosis, and that

Dr. Kashtan of U Minn agreed, and he poo pooed that too. Of course, he

had not even gone completely through Robs chart and I had to fill him in

on many things. But, it was like he was out to undermine everything that

had taken place! Granted, it would be wonderful if Rob didn't have

Alports, but the biopsy clearly showed irregularities, and there is no

other explanation for what he has, other than diabetic nephropathy, and

we know he is not diabetic. So this guy was absolutely irritating and

maddening! I have been waiting to calm down (but I find that I just keep

getting madder!), I plan to email Dr. D and tell him just how disgusted I

was about what he told Rob. It is hard enough to get a teenager to take

his meds, and Rob also has an exercise regimen he must do to keep things

limber (because of the ankylosing spondylitis). He faces his spine fusing

in about 10 years. It is imperative that he diligently exercise in order

to prevent it fusing in a 'bad' position. Meds are the one thing Rob has

been compliant with, but the exercises, no. But at least he is compliant

with meds, that is until Dr. 'HELPFUL' told him no need!

The rheumy did read Rob the riot act about the exercises, so at least

SOMEONE cares if he is compliant!!

Ok, thanks for listening!

, mom to Rob, 15

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