RE: Any Thoughts?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2004 2:23:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> However, all of the times my temp has been taken at the Doc's in the

> past 10-15 years or so, it is routinely around 97.9 - 98.3. The nursesI

> have told me that this is normal for some people. Normal?

>

Yea - " Ha " is right. Have you have your thyroid function tested? And I

don't mean just a TSH test. Have they tested your Free T3? You certainly have

a

lot of thing that are associated with hypothyroidism. Welcome!

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2004 2:23:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> However, all of the times my temp has been taken at the Doc's in the

> past 10-15 years or so, it is routinely around 97.9 - 98.3. The nursesI

> have told me that this is normal for some people. Normal?

>

Yea - " Ha " is right. Have you have your thyroid function tested? And I

don't mean just a TSH test. Have they tested your Free T3? You certainly have

a

lot of thing that are associated with hypothyroidism. Welcome!

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2004 2:23:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> However, all of the times my temp has been taken at the Doc's in the

> past 10-15 years or so, it is routinely around 97.9 - 98.3. The nursesI

> have told me that this is normal for some people. Normal?

>

Yea - " Ha " is right. Have you have your thyroid function tested? And I

don't mean just a TSH test. Have they tested your Free T3? You certainly have

a

lot of thing that are associated with hypothyroidism. Welcome!

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2004 3:55:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kclark@... writes:

> I have suggested, too, that Jeff address his adrenals first since,

> everything I have read, suggests that were he to start on armour or something

like

> that, without first supporting his adrenals, he could be heading for a train

> wreck. Any suggestions for him on that?

>

The only problem with that is getting a doctor to address it.

I do think addressing the adrenals first is the best way to go...however, I

am testimony that you can by hypo for two decades and still be able to start

armour and not have major problems. I upped fast too. So maybe this is

somewhat individual. I think getting the thyroid hormone meds by itself gives

the

adrenals a bit of a rest.

But yes, i do agree with you...address the adrenals first if possible.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2004 4:24:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> Let's hope so! Is there any specific blood work test that is extensive

> enough

> to show mineral deficiencies and such, beyond the thyroid testing? The name

> of a specific full ordered blood test?

>

Isn't this called a " comprehensive metabolic panel " ? also, get your DHEA and

B12 checked. Te adrenals are probably best tested by a saliva test.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2004 4:24:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> Let's hope so! Is there any specific blood work test that is extensive

> enough

> to show mineral deficiencies and such, beyond the thyroid testing? The name

> of a specific full ordered blood test?

>

Isn't this called a " comprehensive metabolic panel " ? also, get your DHEA and

B12 checked. Te adrenals are probably best tested by a saliva test.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2004 4:30:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> Ive had my thyroid tested on at least one occasion in the past. I have no

> idea what the actual test results were or what

> parameters were tested. Other then the Doc mentioning that my thyroid was

> just dandy.

>

Doctors always say thyroid results are just dandy I do believe. Is there any

way you could call wherever it was...and ask for a copy of the labs?

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2004 4:38:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> Is there anyone out there, other then a physician, who can prescribe a

> blood test?

Are you in the USA? www.healthcheck.usa lets you do your own blood

work...you go to a nearby lab...they send you the results. ZRT also lets you

order

saliva tests for lots of good things. Check out this site:

http://www.salivatest.com/store/prod_st.html

You are fortunate to like your doctor..but he should also listen to your

concerns if you feel like there are some other tests you should have to

determine

your health condition.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2004 4:38:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> What is one to do if a train wreck happens, with requesting blood work from

> a Dr.? I mean...one cant just hop

> around from one Doc to the next?

the worse that can happen is he says " no " ...me might also tell you that " I'm

the doctor..I know best " ...but don't be scared to give it a try.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

Yea - " Ha " is right. Have you have your thyroid function tested? And I

don't mean just a TSH test. Have they tested your Free T3? You certainly have

a

lot of thing that are associated with hypothyroidism. Welcome!

Cindi

I have suggested, too, that Jeff address his adrenals first since, everything I

have read, suggests that were he to start on armour or something like that,

without first supporting his adrenals, he could be heading for a train wreck.

Any suggestions for him on that?

in VA

[Guest guest]

Yea - " Ha " is right. Have you have your thyroid function tested? And I

don't mean just a TSH test. Have they tested your Free T3? You certainly have

a

lot of thing that are associated with hypothyroidism. Welcome!

Cindi

I have suggested, too, that Jeff address his adrenals first since, everything I

have read, suggests that were he to start on armour or something like that,

without first supporting his adrenals, he could be heading for a train wreck.

Any suggestions for him on that?

in VA

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the group Jeff. All these things could be pointing to

hypothyroidism. A good starting point would be to get some labs done if

your doc will cooperate. You need, TSH, Free T4, Free T3 and ferritin

at the least. Then don't take the doc's word for anything. Get copies

of the labs and post the results here along with ranges. Hopefully you

live within traveling distance of a good Armour friendly doc. Some on

this board that do not live near one, or do not have insurance choose to

self medicate ordering their medications from Mexico where they are

available over the counter. While that may sound crazy to you right

now, after you get to know some of the great people here and thier

stories, you will understand.

Meanwhile, check out all the links on the groups homepage. There is

a link to it at he bottom of every email. Dont' be surprised if you

begin to feel information overload.

Also, don't mind asking questions, arguing a point, etc. That is

how we learn. The only dumb questions are the ones not asked.

Lastly, believe me, there is hope! You will get better.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

Any Thoughts?

I would like to thank... " from VA " ... for inviting me to join this

list.

Male. Age 48.

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the group Jeff. All these things could be pointing to

hypothyroidism. A good starting point would be to get some labs done if

your doc will cooperate. You need, TSH, Free T4, Free T3 and ferritin

at the least. Then don't take the doc's word for anything. Get copies

of the labs and post the results here along with ranges. Hopefully you

live within traveling distance of a good Armour friendly doc. Some on

this board that do not live near one, or do not have insurance choose to

self medicate ordering their medications from Mexico where they are

available over the counter. While that may sound crazy to you right

now, after you get to know some of the great people here and thier

stories, you will understand.

Meanwhile, check out all the links on the groups homepage. There is

a link to it at he bottom of every email. Dont' be surprised if you

begin to feel information overload.

Also, don't mind asking questions, arguing a point, etc. That is

how we learn. The only dumb questions are the ones not asked.

Lastly, believe me, there is hope! You will get better.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

Any Thoughts?

I would like to thank... " from VA " ... for inviting me to join this

list.

Male. Age 48.

[Guest guest]

Hi Cindi,

Ive had my thyroid tested on at least one occasion in the past. I have no

idea what the actual test results were or what

parameters were tested. Other then the Doc mentioning that my thyroid was just

dandy.

Thanks!

Jeff

_____

From: nc2406@...

Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:38 PM

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: Any Thoughts?

In a message dated 8/11/2004 2:23:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> However, all of the times my temp has been taken at the Doc's in the

> past 10-15 years or so, it is routinely around 97.9 - 98.3. The nursesI

> have told me that this is normal for some people. Normal?

>

Yea - " Ha " is right. Have you have your thyroid function tested? And I

don't mean just a TSH test. Have they tested your Free T3? You certainly have

a

lot of thing that are associated with hypothyroidism. Welcome!

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2004 6:50:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kirkland@... writes:

> It had suddenly gotten very

> bloated and I had to stick a hose down it's throat to let the gas out.

> Poor thing was about to explode.

uh - does this work on humans?

cindi

[Guest guest]

Hey Debbie,

You had mentioned... " If my Doc would cooperate " . Let's hope so! Is there

any specific blood work test that is extensive enough

to show mineral deficiencies and such, beyond the thyroid testing? The name of

a specific full ordered blood test?

I am open to information overload. Need to get myself back in order. I am

going to hold you to your comment of.... " There is

hope...You will get better " . ;-)

Thanks,

Jeff

_____

From: Debbie K

Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:43 PM

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: RE: Any Thoughts?

Welcome to the group Jeff. All these things could be pointing to

hypothyroidism. A good starting point would be to get some labs done if

your doc will cooperate. You need, TSH, Free T4, Free T3 and ferritin

at the least. Then don't take the doc's word for anything. Get copies

of the labs and post the results here along with ranges. Hopefully you

live within traveling distance of a good Armour friendly doc. Some on

this board that do not live near one, or do not have insurance choose to

self medicate ordering their medications from Mexico where they are

available over the counter. While that may sound crazy to you right

now, after you get to know some of the great people here and thier

stories, you will understand.

Meanwhile, check out all the links on the groups homepage. There is

a link to it at he bottom of every email. Dont' be surprised if you

begin to feel information overload.

Also, don't mind asking questions, arguing a point, etc. That is

how we learn. The only dumb questions are the ones not asked.

Lastly, believe me, there is hope! You will get better.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

Any Thoughts?

I would like to thank... " from VA " ... for inviting me to join this

list.

Male. Age 48.

[Guest guest]

Hey Debbie,

You had mentioned... " If my Doc would cooperate " . Let's hope so! Is there

any specific blood work test that is extensive enough

to show mineral deficiencies and such, beyond the thyroid testing? The name of

a specific full ordered blood test?

I am open to information overload. Need to get myself back in order. I am

going to hold you to your comment of.... " There is

hope...You will get better " . ;-)

Thanks,

Jeff

_____

From: Debbie K

Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:43 PM

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: RE: Any Thoughts?

Welcome to the group Jeff. All these things could be pointing to

hypothyroidism. A good starting point would be to get some labs done if

your doc will cooperate. You need, TSH, Free T4, Free T3 and ferritin

at the least. Then don't take the doc's word for anything. Get copies

of the labs and post the results here along with ranges. Hopefully you

live within traveling distance of a good Armour friendly doc. Some on

this board that do not live near one, or do not have insurance choose to

self medicate ordering their medications from Mexico where they are

available over the counter. While that may sound crazy to you right

now, after you get to know some of the great people here and thier

stories, you will understand.

Meanwhile, check out all the links on the groups homepage. There is

a link to it at he bottom of every email. Dont' be surprised if you

begin to feel information overload.

Also, don't mind asking questions, arguing a point, etc. That is

how we learn. The only dumb questions are the ones not asked.

Lastly, believe me, there is hope! You will get better.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

Any Thoughts?

I would like to thank... " from VA " ... for inviting me to join this

list.

Male. Age 48.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2004 7:01:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> I want a rock solid case to present, not some whimsical reason

> that I found on the Net.

>

That's understandable. I just recently ordered the saliva test from

ZRT...the comprehensive profile. I think I want to have these results in hand

to

present to the doctor...instead of begging to be tested.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

,

I've been very pleased with my Doc for the past 20 years. However, I've

never approached him where I have requested specific

blood work, etc. What is one to do if a train wreck happens, with requesting

blood work from a Dr.? I mean...one cant just hop

around from one Doc to the next? Is there anyone out there, other then a

physician, who can prescribe a blood test? Someone who is

perhaps more homeopathic?

Thanks,

Jeff

_____

From: nc2406@...

Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:20 PM

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: Any Thoughts?

In a message dated 8/11/2004 3:55:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kclark@... writes:

> I have suggested, too, that Jeff address his adrenals first since,

> everything I have read, suggests that were he to start on armour or something

like

> that, without first supporting his adrenals, he could be heading for a train

> wreck. Any suggestions for him on that?

>

The only problem with that is getting a doctor to address it.

I do think addressing the adrenals first is the best way to go...however, I

am testimony that you can by hypo for two decades and still be able to start

armour and not have major problems. I upped fast too. So maybe this is

somewhat individual. I think getting the thyroid hormone meds by itself gives

the

adrenals a bit of a rest.

But yes, i do agree with you...address the adrenals first if possible.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

To me you sound like a definite hypothyroid. Also, being a diabetic

makes you have thyroid function problems because glucose is needed

inside cells to convert thyroid hormone T4 to the energy producing

hormone T3. So, if you have difficulty getting blood sugar into

cells, thyroid function is compromised some.

There are doctors out there that believe ADD is thyroid related or

toxin related. The fact that the medications did not help means that

low thryoid is more likely.

Magnesium is one mineral that is very benificial in hypothyroidism.

I would also add Chromium, as this is very helpful for blood sugar

control and thyroid function. Selinium is essential for thyroid

function as well. You can try Iodine also, but it will be bad if you

have an iodine triggered auto-immune disease.

Adrenal problems are also an indication of hypothyroidism. If you do

not have enough adrenal hormones, thyroid cannot get into tissues.

Through the feedback mechanisms in the body, low adrenal tends to

slow thyroid output and function. Also, low adrenal makes tissues

less responsive to T3 thyroid hormone, which might explain some of

the concentration problems, also, along with low thyroid. You

describe classic symptoms of low adrenal - panic attacks. Low

thyroid leads to lack of oxygen to the brain.

There is no harm at all in a trial of thyroid hormone. But, if you

are sure of adrenal hypofunction, you must supplement the adrenals

with 10-20mg of hydrocortisone or up to 8 IsoCorts a day or

something like licorice root or an adrenal glandular. You will be so

sorry if you don't. This I know from personal experience.

You can ask your doc for antibody tests and free T3 and free T4. By

my book TSH should never be relied upon for a diagnosis. Certain

auto-immune diseases render the free T3 test invalid.

You can purchase Nutri+Meds thyroid, which contains about 1/4 grain

of thyroid per pill and try that. You must start very slowly with

adrenal problems. I mean like half of a pill (1/8th grain) a day and

don't raise for two weeks or more. The longer you have been hypo the

more sensitive you are to even tiny amounts.

The average dose for a fully medicated person is 3 to 5 grains a

day. It has taken me two years to get to 3-1/2 grains. If you go to

fast, you crash. And if Adrenal gets too low with respect to

thyroid, thyroid builds up in the blood makes you really

uncomfortable and you crash.

Good luck.

Tish

[Guest guest]

I think I would rather start with a fresh blood test, as the last one I had for

my thyroid was a few years ago. I'll have my Doc

check my folder at my next visit, just for comparison sake.

Jeff

_____

From: nc2406@...

Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:15 PM

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: Any Thoughts?

In a message dated 8/11/2004 4:30:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> Ive had my thyroid tested on at least one occasion in the past. I have no

> idea what the actual test results were or what

> parameters were tested. Other then the Doc mentioning that my thyroid was

> just dandy.

>

Doctors always say thyroid results are just dandy I do believe. Is there any

way you could call wherever it was...and ask for a copy of the labs?

Cindi

[Guest guest]

Someone else can answer that better than I. As far a thyroid goes,

beware that the doc may say they are doing a full thyroid panel and you

think " ok they are doing everything " . But to them the full panel may

not, probably does not include the frees. Ask specifically for free T3

and free T4. The TSH they usually include, but it won't hurt to ask.

You also need to get your ferritin checked. If that is low, you won't

be able to absorb the thyroid meds. Somebody here, Janie, I think, is

up on that. I'm sure whoever it is will contribute some wisdom.

Meanwhile, you could go ahead and start on some Adrenal support. If

your adrenals are stressed too much, you may have a hard time adjusting

to the armour. I have seen it suggested that you do adrenal support a

couple of weeks before starting Armour. So you could be getting the

adrenal support started while figuring out the next step. I prefer the

Isocort because it is desiccated sheep adrenal, just like Armour is

desiccated pig thyroid. You get the full panel of adrenal hormones when

you take it and it is easy to get. Check it out at

http://www.vitaminmd.com/isocort.htm . Some here prefer others which

is fine, we are not all clones and what does best for one may not be

best for another.

There is a lot to read in the files and links sections of the group

home page. A link to it is at the bottom of every email.

Beware, good docs who are willing to treat by symptoms rather than

faulty blood tests are few and far between. Even many on the Top Docs

sites are not that great. Leads one to think there may be some self

promoting going on. If you let us know where you live, someone here may

be able to recommend a good doc. Two that are highly praised here are

Dr. Wolinger (sp?) in south Florida and Dr. Milton near Atlanta,

Ga. Dr. Milton has people coming from all over the world. I have one

friend who goes to him from Michigan and one time she said there were 18

others from Michigan seeing him. Since then, she's told me of two or

three more. All these people had given up on other docs and got better

after seeing doc Milton. One poor mother was dying, she had actually

gotten to the point that her mind was going.

I may be repeating myself, I had to go out to save a calf. I've

never done emergency vet stuff before. It had suddenly gotten very

bloated and I had to stick a hose down it's throat to let the gas out.

Poor thing was about to explode. Sounded like a balloon exhaling and

you could see his stomach going down. When we got it to the vet, it was

fine. The vet said I saved it's life. I'm a little addled right now.

Anyway, there's a lot to learn and figure out, but you'll get it.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

RE: Any Thoughts?

Hey Debbie,

You had mentioned... " If my Doc would cooperate " . Let's hope so! Is

there any specific blood work test that is extensive enough

to show mineral deficiencies and such, beyond the thyroid testing? The

name of a specific full ordered blood test?

I am open to information overload. Need to get myself back in

order. I am going to hold you to your comment of.... " There is

hope...You will get better " . ;-)

Thanks,

Jeff

[Guest guest]

Cindi,

Thanks for the URL info. I think I may even go this route, as the

interpretation of the test results may be more to my benefit.

I have no problem approaching my Doc. I just want to make sure I am prepared

with new constructive information or reasons to supply

him with, as I've discussed this fatigue issue with him in the past. I want a

rock solid case to present, not some whimsical reason

that I found on the Net.

_____

From: nc2406@...

Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 5:17 PM

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: Any Thoughts?

In a message dated 8/11/2004 4:38:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jeff.castor@... writes:

> Is there anyone out there, other then a physician, who can prescribe a

> blood test?

Are you in the USA? www.healthcheck.usa lets you do your own blood

work...you go to a nearby lab...they send you the results. ZRT also lets you

order

saliva tests for lots of good things. Check out this site:

http://www.salivatest.com/store/prod_st.html

You are fortunate to like your doctor..but he should also listen to your

concerns if you feel like there are some other tests you should have to

determine

your health condition.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

Debbie,

Thanks for the info on what I should request for the thyroid bloodwork. Im

from upstate NY, if anyone would be able to

recommend a physician.

I was unable to get the link to work for the isocort. Is there a reason why

some may prefer a dessicated thyroid product, over

a hydrocortisone product for adrenal issues?

Jeff

_____

From: Debbie K

Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 6:46 PM

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: RE: Any Thoughts?

Someone else can answer that better than I. As far a thyroid goes,

beware that the doc may say they are doing a full thyroid panel and you

think " ok they are doing everything " . But to them the full panel may

not, probably does not include the frees. Ask specifically for free T3

and free T4. The TSH they usually include, but it won't hurt to ask.

You also need to get your ferritin checked. If that is low, you won't

be able to absorb the thyroid meds. Somebody here, Janie, I think, is

up on that. I'm sure whoever it is will contribute some wisdom.

Meanwhile, you could go ahead and start on some Adrenal support. If

your adrenals are stressed too much, you may have a hard time adjusting

to the armour. I have seen it suggested that you do adrenal support a

couple of weeks before starting Armour. So you could be getting the

adrenal support started while figuring out the next step. I prefer the

Isocort because it is desiccated sheep adrenal, just like Armour is

desiccated pig thyroid. You get the full panel of adrenal hormones when

you take it and it is easy to get. Check it out at

http://www.vitaminmd.com/isocort.htm . Some here prefer others which

is fine, we are not all clones and what does best for one may not be

best for another.

There is a lot to read in the files and links sections of the group

home page. A link to it is at the bottom of every email.

Beware, good docs who are willing to treat by symptoms rather than

faulty blood tests are few and far between. Even many on the Top Docs

sites are not that great. Leads one to think there may be some self

promoting going on. If you let us know where you live, someone here may

be able to recommend a good doc. Two that are highly praised here are

Dr. Wolinger (sp?) in south Florida and Dr. Milton near Atlanta,

Ga. Dr. Milton has people coming from all over the world. I have one

friend who goes to him from Michigan and one time she said there were 18

others from Michigan seeing him. Since then, she's told me of two or

three more. All these people had given up on other docs and got better

after seeing doc Milton. One poor mother was dying, she had actually

gotten to the point that her mind was going.

I may be repeating myself, I had to go out to save a calf. I've

never done emergency vet stuff before. It had suddenly gotten very

bloated and I had to stick a hose down it's throat to let the gas out.

Poor thing was about to explode. Sounded like a balloon exhaling and

you could see his stomach going down. When we got it to the vet, it was

fine. The vet said I saved it's life. I'm a little addled right now.

Anyway, there's a lot to learn and figure out, but you'll get it.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

RE: Any Thoughts?

Hey Debbie,

You had mentioned... " If my Doc would cooperate " . Let's hope so! Is

there any specific blood work test that is extensive enough

to show mineral deficiencies and such, beyond the thyroid testing? The

name of a specific full ordered blood test?

I am open to information overload. Need to get myself back in

order. I am going to hold you to your comment of.... " There is

hope...You will get better " . ;-)

Thanks,

Jeff

[Guest guest]

I wish! It was hard enough getting the tube down the calf's throat, I

don't think I want to try doing it to myself. hehehe ;-)

Re: Any Thoughts?

In a message dated 8/11/2004 6:50:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kirkland@... writes:

> It had suddenly gotten very

> bloated and I had to stick a hose down it's throat to let the gas out.

> Poor thing was about to explode.

uh - does this work on humans?

cindi