Re: Target BG levels

[Guest guest]

Go figure Sue--I just hope I am not out of the 5's next week when I get

my new A1c done--I ate myself silly over the holidays!

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

max 100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Go figure Sue--I just hope I am not out of the 5's next week when I get

my new A1c done--I ate myself silly over the holidays!

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

max 100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Go figure Sue--I just hope I am not out of the 5's next week when I get

my new A1c done--I ate myself silly over the holidays!

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

max 100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

: what is the mean glucose level for that 5.4 at your lab? It shd

be right on the report/

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

max 100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

I guess my problem is that although I never go high I never go low

either. In the 27 months since diagnosis I have only had a

handful--maybe 4 or 5 times--of bg's in the 70's & never anything lower

ever. I've had exactly one time of 70 which is the lowest I have ever

measured.

I pretty much stay stable in the 80 to 110 range. Once in a great while

I might go to 115 or 120 but it is not very often & always a shock to

me.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

max 100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

BTW I don't think you meant one could not eat anything but that

one could not have any rise whatsoever to have a 5% with a 90 fbg.

I have many times had no pp rise at all according to my meter -- &

sometimes I am actually lower after eating than before.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

max 100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Sorry I don't have that mean glucose level. I will have to ask the doc next

time I go.

S Wilkinson

Rome, NY

-----Original Message-----

From: cappie@...

: what is the mean glucose level for that 5.4 at your lab? It shd

be right on the report/

cappie

[Guest guest]

Correct , Lantus has allowed me to keep a FBG of 80 to 90mg/dl. That is

the

answer for me. I also have had only about 10 low bg's in 6 months.. Low for

me is anything under 60. I have had a 33

when first on insulin. I tested it 3 times and it was the same range on two

meters. What scared me is that I did

not have any symptoms. But I have had a 48, and had the shakes.

S Wilkinson

Rome, NY

-----Original Message-----

From: DEKEP@...

In a message dated 1/19/2005 6:56:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jwilkins@... writes:

> Since going on insulin in June of 2004, my neuropathy of both legs has

> disappeared.

>

Great news, .

My labs work on the basis that an average BG range of 90 to 120

corresponds

to an A1c range of 5.0 to 6.0. Using this data, to achieve an A1c of 5.0

you

would have to EAT NOTHING if your FBG was 90.

These numbers illustrate the importance of FBG, and provide a good reason

to

use a slow acting insulin like Ultralente. or Lantus to lower FBG. It's

working for me and also seems to be working for you.

[Guest guest]

Barb: yup she sure has & I have tried to do it several times. However

my numbers creep up as soon as I do & I don't want to live with that.

My cabs & calories are as low as I am willing to go (which is actually

quite low) & I am not able to exercise much beyond simple walking with

my rollator when the weather is better. My apt is the size of a work

cubi so no equipment here or I'd have to sleep on the street. I don't

drive--numb hands & feet-- & there is no pool in town.

I evidently have a very active liver which delights in dumping as soon

as it detects any slight interest in my being alive--even now I have to

take my metformin at 6 am to prevent a big rise before getting up &

eating at 8am. & it is cumulative--if I cut back the Met dose in the

evening when I don't really need it, then the morning numbers are over

100. Many people would be satisfied but I am not prepared to live with

that which would probably give me an A1c of around close to 6.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

max 100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

: without that mean average you have no way of knowing just what the

A1c stands for as every lab may be different. The a1c test has not been

standardised & each lab may have a different technique for arriving at

it. Therefore it is not really possible to compare one A1c to someone

else's A1c unless they were done the same or one knows the equivalent

mean level is that it stands for.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu).

max 100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

> Therefore it is not really possible to compare one A1c to someone

> else's A1c unless they were done the same or one knows the equivalent

> mean level is that it stands for.

Even if you both had it done at the same lab, the results might mean

different things because they assume your blood cells live 120 days, and

this is not true for everyone. Also, if you have a nonstandard hemoglobin

type, this can affect the results.

Finally, some people might not glycate as rapidly as others. They could have

identical BG readings for the month but different A1cs.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Hmmm Cappie, what do you think a graph of blood glucose for a

perfectly normal(probably doesn't exist) perfectly healthy non

diabetic would look like? It's hard for me to imagine it would be a

straight line. And is " normal " an acceptable goal?

Betty

> BTW I don't think you meant one could not eat anything but

that

> one could not have any rise whatsoever to have a 5% with a 90 fbg.

>

> I have many times had no pp rise at all according to my meter -- &

> sometimes I am actually lower after eating than before.

>

>

> cappie

> Greater Boston Area

> T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

> max 100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

>

> ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

> Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

> Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

> fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

> Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

>

> 1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

> 5' tall /age 67,

> cappie@w...

[Guest guest]

Betty: I guess I an dense but I don't understand what you are asking

me? I don't do graphs anyway but why should I care what a non-diabetic

would look like?

Not being smart I truly don't understand what you are talking about.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Cappie, in no way was I saying that you are " dense " or not " smart " .

Far from it I see you very knowledgeable and your posts are very

helpful. A couple posts back from mine you had made the following

observation:

>> I have many times had no pp rise at all according to my meter -- &

sometimes I am actually lower after eating than before.<<

From reading your post generally speaking and nonspecific it seems

that your numbers stay almost the same. Perhaps I am remembering

wrong and eating does not seem to raise your blood glucose but very

little if any and you say you never have any lows. My graph

reference was that if your numbers have very little change the line

would be straight.

To me a blood glucose target should be based on average non diabetic

people as that is the way standards are usually established. Non

diabetics stay within a narrow range but there is some rise and

fall. My targets for for blood glucose, blood pressure, weight,

temperature etc is to be " normal " or " average " , In that respect I do

care what non diabetic levels should be.

If I offended you I apologize. You are doing great

********************************

> Betty: I guess I an dense but I don't understand what you are

asking

> me? I don't do graphs anyway but why should I care what a non-

diabetic

> would look like?

> Not being smart I truly don't understand what you are talking about.

>

>

> cappie

> Greater Boston Area

> T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

> 50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

>

> ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

> Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

> Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

> fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

> Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

>

> 1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

> 5' tall /age 67,

> cappie@w...

[Guest guest]

No no Betty you've said nothing to offend & I really was just feeling

stupid cause I didn't understand what you were asking me.

Yes you are right I do tend to stay within that narrow range & I

consider that a fairly non-diabetic range. However I am deliberately

aiming for that range & to do it I almost never eat off plan except for

special occasions & when I DO I can go way up just as anyone else. (I

went to 150 once when I had 2 pieces of regular pizza) Also if I don't

take my Metformin, the numbers go much higher. I am very deff a tightly

CONTROLLED diabetic altho a nice & stable one if I do everything I am

supposed to. As a type 2 I have a lot of IR but obviously I still have

some beta cells working for a fairly good 2nd response. My med,

Metformin is not one to cause lows so there is no reason that I should

go low & I don't.

That all said I still don't understand what you are asking me?

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Cappie, I was so tired last night when I posted I just hoped it was

done ok. But instead of saying " go low " I really meant lower at

times, like in the AM " normal " would probably be lower than after

meals. That type of thing was what I meant.

You are doing great at keeping this monster at bay. What prompted my

post was that while you are controlling the beast. it is controlling

you. I wanted to state that in two words but was afraid that would

be offensive. " Lighten up " Goals are needed but perfection can be

over controlling.

I also take Metformin and also Actos. I have found as I think some

others has also, that Metformin taken with the meal it has a good,

quick action. I use it as a " bolus " Body weight is a problem I have

never had to deal with. That is such an important factor that I can

not relate to as you do. I see body weight as a greater problem and

more difficult than diabetes. I sympathize with those that have such

difficult problems and hope things can be less demanding.

Betty

> No no Betty you've said nothing to offend & I really was just

feeling

> stupid cause I didn't understand what you were asking me.

>

> Yes you are right I do tend to stay within that narrow range & I

> consider that a fairly non-diabetic range. However I am

deliberately

> aiming for that range & to do it I almost never eat off plan except

for

> special occasions & when I DO I can go way up just as anyone else.

(I

> went to 150 once when I had 2 pieces of regular pizza) Also if I

don't

> take my Metformin, the numbers go much higher. I am very deff a

tightly

> CONTROLLED diabetic altho a nice & stable one if I do everything I

[Guest guest]

Betty: no you are not offensive & some would agree with you but I guess

the disease " overcontrolling me " is in the eye of the beholder.

What is really controlling me is the vision of spending my last 25 years

of life with no kidneys or no feet or no sight. If I had a lot of time

left to my life or else just a few years I probably would not be as

concerned. However, I would like to prolong the period of low A1c with

less meds as long as I can for the time that I have left.

Yes weight is a huge part of my control because I also have to eat to

control that as well as the bg level. It would be much easier just to

say to hell with it all but that is NOT what my heart desires. My first

priority is not just food enjoyment but leading a more comfortable &

healthy life according to my own standards. The month that I threw

caution to the wind over these last holidays actuually made me miserable

& depressed not happier.

Everyone has to live with their own standards & not be too quick to

project misery or " overcontrol " on to someone else just because they

seem more strict than oneself. As I said previously, each of us has

to decide those things for oneself--altho it might not be what we would

do it is not for one person to decide what is to be considered

" obsessive cumpulsive " for another.

BTW of course a non-diabetic is not a flat line on a graph & neither am

I. We would both go up & down within our respective ranges--it is just

that the range is narrower.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 9/04 A1c: 5.3 (111 mean glu)

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin.

ALA/EPO, Coq10, B12, ALC, Vit C

Cal/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Chromium P, Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg, Enalapril 10 mg

1/05:146 lbs (highest weight 309),

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/19/05 10:33:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, DEKEP@...

writes:

>>You can have substantial post prandial figures and still get a reasonable

>A1c, providing you limit the number and amount of meals, and get your FBG

down to

>about 90.

>>>>>>>

But there are also studies showing that spikes can cause damage as well...

it's not clear where the cutoff is beyond wihich damage is being done, but it's

there.

Plus, not insignificantly, people not using insulin sometimes have a hard

time getting that PP number down quickly... and if they go up to 150 or 180 or

more, it might be several hours before it comes back to 90, if it gets to 90 at

all.

Yes, the a1c is important, and getting one in the 5s is important, but one

could be in the 5s with lots of 40s and lots of 160s, and, to me, that wouldn't

be a great thing.

Stacey