Re: Communication using sign language .... Long!

[Guest guest]

I don't want to get into a debate but I do want parents to know that the arguement you give cuts me to the core everytime I hear it. I don't want to go into more detail in the open forem but if any parents would like to talk to me about using Signing Exact English feel free to email me directly. My son is profoundly deaf and I use SEE everyday and don't find it hard to use. I want to leave it at that on this forem. This could get into a long drawn out debate -- that's not what I want.

Sue Ann

Communication using sign language .... Long!

There's been discussion about using sign language with people who are havingcommunication difficulties.If we are talking about auditory problems as being the source of thecommunication difficulties, we could get into a great amount of techicalitiesabout what sign system to use.Certainly, in the deaf community, there is little question that their languageis the language of pictures made by the hands and is a language of its own.Various countries have their own sign languages, just as various countries havetheir own spoken languages. In North America, generally, the sign languagesystem is American Sign Language (ASL). To North American deaf purists, ASL isthe ONLY sign system that should be used. It IS the language for the deaf,without question!The problem is that if a deaf child grows up in a "hearing" home the ASL becomes"pigeon" or "pidgin" (however it is spelt, the language has been adapted for avery localized consumption and the "real" language is unavailable forpatterning)!A number of different sign systems were developed, including Signing ExactEnglish (SEE). These sign systems used the basic ASL signs and added refinementsto adapt to the English language. This "Siglish" as it is called, is a usefultool in educational circles for the teaching of English vocabulary, syntax andgrammar to a child who has never heard English spoken. These Siglish signs weredeveloped by someone who thought it was the answer for hearing parents of deafchildren ... but in actuality, their application for home use is limited usuallyto noun and verb refinement and becomes part of the home use "pidgin"!!!!English Syntax in Siglish, for home use, is impractical.As a teacher of the deaf, I used sign language in the classroom. Here is where Iwant to make a very important distinction. I used ASL to teach subject matter... where developing concepts were the goals in such subjects as Science, SocialStudies, Math. In fact, I used ASL in all subjects EXCEPT English!!! In Englishmy goal was teaching ANOTHER language!In ASL, a sign for "car" is two handed as if holding a steering wheel andnegotiating a turn and correction ... back and forth. In Siglish, this simplesign becomes augmented. A "car" now uses a fingerspelling "C", and a "van" hasthe same motion using the letter "V" and a "truck" uses the same sign motionusing a "T"! One "car" has the "C" sign, but plural "cars" adds a letter "S"after the sign is finished. Verbs can show past tense, future tense, and "ing"endings. Adverbs can add the "ly" ending. Communication consists of refined ASLsigns + English endings in an English word order.As you can see, this is a very concentrated form of the language and it isn'tvery practical for everyday communication. Most hearing families with a deaffamily member develop their own "pidgin" and their communication, while not pureASL, is easy and often follows English word order .... just because there is noASL to pattern from!The problem, as I see it, is that it depends upon the goal for thecommunication. If your child has NO communication and you want to be able to getanswers or give directions ... or even just "Yes" and "No" responses ..... thensurely you will start as you would with any child learning a language .... withsimple vocabulary. First one naming word, then the naming word (noun) and adoing word (verb) in combination. Remember how you talked to your child BEFOREyou knew he had communication problems? Use ASL signs in the same simple way.Your ASL may never be purist ASL, but I guarantee that your "pidgin" ASL willwork for you ... IF ... your child has the brain power to absorb, understand andproduce sign.Personally, I had much less trouble learning and adapting to ASL (as a "pidgin"signer) than the frustration I experienced with using a Siglish system! If youare going to use Siglish for English language acquisition, then the child's ASLskill level must be beyond the "baby learning" stage and have some maturity. Itis laborious and slow and the tendency is to get sloppy and forget to use theimportant (in Siglish) endings, thereby defeating the purpose of teaching Englishthrough the use of sign in combination with English syntax.If the communication difficulty is not due to deafness, then again a localized"pidgin" and likely a very SIMPLE form of "pidgin" sign is practical. Siglishuse in this case is likely out of the question ... the simple ASL signs alwayswere the basic visual idea to begin with.Sign is a motion picture language. It is received and sent using a differenthemisphere and part of the brain than our spoken language. Studies have shownthat if you use sign language in conjunction with a spoken language in a new-borninfant through their language acquisition years, the child will have a MUCHGREATER language capacity, and vocabulary and will develop language skillsearlier and more proficiently than using just the spoken language channel.What would I recommend to a parent wanting SOME communication. Don't get hung upon the "how's" ... give your child the gift of words! Others have given yousites for where to go to start to learn some signs .... think about the "why" forthe sign (such as the driving motion for a vehicle) and then communicate THAT toyour child!!!ShepherdTeacher of the DeafPlease contact mito-owner with any problems or questions.

[Guest guest]

Sue Ann;

You are quite right ... and I believe I started my post with an admission

that the issue of even the *use* of sign language ... without WHICH

type of sign to use ... is contentious.

I did not mean to place any judgement upon your decision for communication

method with your profoundly deaf son. As a matter of fact, that was

far from my intention.

My intention was merely to present different forms of sign communication

.... baring in mind that for some parents the SEE method presents a significantly

higher sign LANGUAGE function than a child, whose brain functioning level

is causing the communication difficulties.

I was hoping to allow these parents to relax with a sign language which

they have to adapt to meet their child's needs.

I did after all say that I used SEE in the classroom!

Although my sons both have a hearing loss, there was no necessity to

use sign with them. I am the child of a profoundly deaf parent and

a sister to a profoundly deaf brother, I trained to teach deaf education

primarily in a school which was, at that time, an oral school. I

was, and am, a strong believer in Total Communication and integration.

The kind of integration that I pioneered in the province of British Columbia

has a *group* of age similar deaf students within a regular classroom,

with a regular classroom teacher, and a qualified teacher of the deaf,

where everything is interpreted into sign and the hearing children in both

the classroom and the school learn sign language.

Even then, I don't advocate integration for all as the least restrictive

environment for all deaf children.

I still believe that the best route that a parent can take is what works

for them and their child ... rather than be bound to the confines of one

particular system.

I don't want the debate either ... and I apologize if you felt that

my post was aimed in your direction. I assure you that it wasn't!

I admit to getting upset when I see one method of communication being suggested

as being best, when there IS debate involved ... especially in a forum

where communication difficulties aren't necessarily caused by deafness!

If SEE doesn't work for your child, give yourselves permission to do what

*does* work! Be inventive!

Shepherd

Sue Ann Bube wrote:

I

don't want to get into a debate but I do want parents to know that the

arguement you give cuts me to the core everytime I hear it. I don't

want to go into more detail in the open forem but if any parents would

like to talk to me about using Signing Exact English feel free to email

me directly. My son is profoundly deaf and I use SEE everyday and

don't find it hard to use. I want to leave it at that on this forem.

This could get into a long drawn out debate -- that's not what I want. Sue

Ann

Communication using

sign language .... Long!

There's been discussion about using sign language with people

who are having

communication difficulties.

If we are talking about auditory problems as being the source of

the

communication difficulties, we could get into a great amount of

techicalities

about what sign system to use.

Certainly, in the deaf community, there is little question

that their language

is the language of pictures made by the hands and is a language

of its own.

Various countries have their own sign languages, just as various

countries have

their own spoken languages. In North America, generally,

the sign language

system is American Sign Language (ASL). To North American

deaf purists, ASL is

the ONLY sign system that should be used. It IS the language

for the deaf,

without question!

The problem is that if a deaf child grows up in a "hearing" home

the ASL becomes

"pigeon" or "pidgin" (however it is spelt, the language has been

adapted for a

very localized consumption and the "real" language is unavailable

for

patterning)!

A number of different sign systems were developed, including Signing

Exact

English (SEE). These sign systems used the basic ASL signs

and added refinements

to adapt to the English language. This "Siglish" as it is

called, is a useful

tool in educational circles for the teaching of English vocabulary,

syntax and

grammar to a child who has never heard English spoken. These

Siglish signs were

developed by someone who thought it was the answer for hearing

parents of deaf

children ... but in actuality, their application for home use is

limited usually

to noun and verb refinement and becomes part of the home use "pidgin"!!!!

English Syntax in Siglish, for home use, is impractical.

As a teacher of the deaf, I used sign language in the classroom.

Here is where I

want to make a very important distinction. I used ASL to

teach subject matter

.... where developing concepts were the goals in such subjects as

Science, Social

Studies, Math. In fact, I used ASL in all subjects EXCEPT

English!!! In English

my goal was teaching ANOTHER language!

In ASL, a sign for "car" is two handed as if holding a steering

wheel and

negotiating a turn and correction ... back and forth. In

Siglish, this simple

sign becomes augmented. A "car" now uses a fingerspelling

"C", and a "van" has

the same motion using the letter "V" and a "truck" uses the same

sign motion

using a "T"! One "car" has the "C" sign, but plural "cars"

adds a letter "S"

after the sign is finished. Verbs can show past tense, future

tense, and "ing"

endings. Adverbs can add the "ly" ending. Communication

consists of refined ASL

signs + English endings in an English word order.

As you can see, this is a very concentrated form of the language

and it isn't

very practical for everyday communication. Most hearing families

with a deaf

family member develop their own "pidgin" and their communication,

while not pure

ASL, is easy and often follows English word order .... just because

there is no

ASL to pattern from!

The problem, as I see it, is that it depends upon the goal for the

communication. If your child has NO communication and you

want to be able to get

answers or give directions ... or even just "Yes" and "No" responses

...... then

surely you will start as you would with any child learning a language

..... with

simple vocabulary. First one naming word, then the naming

word (noun) and a

doing word (verb) in combination. Remember how you talked

to your child BEFORE

you knew he had communication problems? Use ASL signs in

the same simple way.

Your ASL may never be purist ASL, but I guarantee that your "pidgin"

ASL will

work for you ... IF ... your child has the brain power to absorb,

understand and

produce sign.

Personally, I had much less trouble learning and adapting to ASL

(as a "pidgin"

signer) than the frustration I experienced with using a Siglish

system! If you

are going to use Siglish for English language acquisition, then

the child's ASL

skill level must be beyond the "baby learning" stage and have some

maturity. It

is laborious and slow and the tendency is to get sloppy and forget

to use the

important (in Siglish) endings, thereby defeating the purpose of

teaching English

through the use of sign in combination with English syntax.

If the communication difficulty is not due to deafness, then again

a localized

"pidgin" and likely a very SIMPLE form of "pidgin" sign is practical.

Siglish

use in this case is likely out of the question ... the simple ASL

signs always

were the basic visual idea to begin with.

Sign is a motion picture language. It is received and sent

using a different

hemisphere and part of the brain than our spoken language.

Studies have shown

that if you use sign language in conjunction with a spoken language

in a new-born

infant through their language acquisition years, the child will

have a MUCH

GREATER language capacity, and vocabulary and will develop language

skills

earlier and more proficiently than using just the spoken language

channel.

What would I recommend to a parent wanting SOME communication.

Don't get hung up

on the "how's" ... give your child the gift of words! Others

have given you

sites for where to go to start to learn some signs .... think about

the "why" for

the sign (such as the driving motion for a vehicle) and then communicate

THAT to

your child!!!

Shepherd

Teacher of the Deaf

[Guest guest]

Sue Ann;

You are quite right ... and I believe I started my post with an admission

that the issue of even the *use* of sign language ... without WHICH

type of sign to use ... is contentious.

I did not mean to place any judgement upon your decision for communication

method with your profoundly deaf son. As a matter of fact, that was

far from my intention.

My intention was merely to present different forms of sign communication

.... baring in mind that for some parents the SEE method presents a significantly

higher sign LANGUAGE function than a child, whose brain functioning level

is causing the communication difficulties.

I was hoping to allow these parents to relax with a sign language which

they have to adapt to meet their child's needs.

I did after all say that I used SEE in the classroom!

Although my sons both have a hearing loss, there was no necessity to

use sign with them. I am the child of a profoundly deaf parent and

a sister to a profoundly deaf brother, I trained to teach deaf education

primarily in a school which was, at that time, an oral school. I

was, and am, a strong believer in Total Communication and integration.

The kind of integration that I pioneered in the province of British Columbia

has a *group* of age similar deaf students within a regular classroom,

with a regular classroom teacher, and a qualified teacher of the deaf,

where everything is interpreted into sign and the hearing children in both

the classroom and the school learn sign language.

Even then, I don't advocate integration for all as the least restrictive

environment for all deaf children.

I still believe that the best route that a parent can take is what works

for them and their child ... rather than be bound to the confines of one

particular system.

I don't want the debate either ... and I apologize if you felt that

my post was aimed in your direction. I assure you that it wasn't!

I admit to getting upset when I see one method of communication being suggested

as being best, when there IS debate involved ... especially in a forum

where communication difficulties aren't necessarily caused by deafness!

If SEE doesn't work for your child, give yourselves permission to do what

*does* work! Be inventive!

Shepherd

Sue Ann Bube wrote:

I

don't want to get into a debate but I do want parents to know that the

arguement you give cuts me to the core everytime I hear it. I don't

want to go into more detail in the open forem but if any parents would

like to talk to me about using Signing Exact English feel free to email

me directly. My son is profoundly deaf and I use SEE everyday and

don't find it hard to use. I want to leave it at that on this forem.

This could get into a long drawn out debate -- that's not what I want. Sue

Ann

Communication using

sign language .... Long!

There's been discussion about using sign language with people

who are having

communication difficulties.

If we are talking about auditory problems as being the source of

the

communication difficulties, we could get into a great amount of

techicalities

about what sign system to use.

Certainly, in the deaf community, there is little question

that their language

is the language of pictures made by the hands and is a language

of its own.

Various countries have their own sign languages, just as various

countries have

their own spoken languages. In North America, generally,

the sign language

system is American Sign Language (ASL). To North American

deaf purists, ASL is

the ONLY sign system that should be used. It IS the language

for the deaf,

without question!

The problem is that if a deaf child grows up in a "hearing" home

the ASL becomes

"pigeon" or "pidgin" (however it is spelt, the language has been

adapted for a

very localized consumption and the "real" language is unavailable

for

patterning)!

A number of different sign systems were developed, including Signing

Exact

English (SEE). These sign systems used the basic ASL signs

and added refinements

to adapt to the English language. This "Siglish" as it is

called, is a useful

tool in educational circles for the teaching of English vocabulary,

syntax and

grammar to a child who has never heard English spoken. These

Siglish signs were

developed by someone who thought it was the answer for hearing

parents of deaf

children ... but in actuality, their application for home use is

limited usually

to noun and verb refinement and becomes part of the home use "pidgin"!!!!

English Syntax in Siglish, for home use, is impractical.

As a teacher of the deaf, I used sign language in the classroom.

Here is where I

want to make a very important distinction. I used ASL to

teach subject matter

.... where developing concepts were the goals in such subjects as

Science, Social

Studies, Math. In fact, I used ASL in all subjects EXCEPT

English!!! In English

my goal was teaching ANOTHER language!

In ASL, a sign for "car" is two handed as if holding a steering

wheel and

negotiating a turn and correction ... back and forth. In

Siglish, this simple

sign becomes augmented. A "car" now uses a fingerspelling

"C", and a "van" has

the same motion using the letter "V" and a "truck" uses the same

sign motion

using a "T"! One "car" has the "C" sign, but plural "cars"

adds a letter "S"

after the sign is finished. Verbs can show past tense, future

tense, and "ing"

endings. Adverbs can add the "ly" ending. Communication

consists of refined ASL

signs + English endings in an English word order.

As you can see, this is a very concentrated form of the language

and it isn't

very practical for everyday communication. Most hearing families

with a deaf

family member develop their own "pidgin" and their communication,

while not pure

ASL, is easy and often follows English word order .... just because

there is no

ASL to pattern from!

The problem, as I see it, is that it depends upon the goal for the

communication. If your child has NO communication and you

want to be able to get

answers or give directions ... or even just "Yes" and "No" responses

...... then

surely you will start as you would with any child learning a language

..... with

simple vocabulary. First one naming word, then the naming

word (noun) and a

doing word (verb) in combination. Remember how you talked

to your child BEFORE

you knew he had communication problems? Use ASL signs in

the same simple way.

Your ASL may never be purist ASL, but I guarantee that your "pidgin"

ASL will

work for you ... IF ... your child has the brain power to absorb,

understand and

produce sign.

Personally, I had much less trouble learning and adapting to ASL

(as a "pidgin"

signer) than the frustration I experienced with using a Siglish

system! If you

are going to use Siglish for English language acquisition, then

the child's ASL

skill level must be beyond the "baby learning" stage and have some

maturity. It

is laborious and slow and the tendency is to get sloppy and forget

to use the

important (in Siglish) endings, thereby defeating the purpose of

teaching English

through the use of sign in combination with English syntax.

If the communication difficulty is not due to deafness, then again

a localized

"pidgin" and likely a very SIMPLE form of "pidgin" sign is practical.

Siglish

use in this case is likely out of the question ... the simple ASL

signs always

were the basic visual idea to begin with.

Sign is a motion picture language. It is received and sent

using a different

hemisphere and part of the brain than our spoken language.

Studies have shown

that if you use sign language in conjunction with a spoken language

in a new-born

infant through their language acquisition years, the child will

have a MUCH

GREATER language capacity, and vocabulary and will develop language

skills

earlier and more proficiently than using just the spoken language

channel.

What would I recommend to a parent wanting SOME communication.

Don't get hung up

on the "how's" ... give your child the gift of words! Others

have given you

sites for where to go to start to learn some signs .... think about

the "why" for

the sign (such as the driving motion for a vehicle) and then communicate

THAT to

your child!!!

Shepherd

Teacher of the Deaf

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the clarification. I agree that what's best for one is not what's best for all. I'm sorry if while reading your post I was blinded by all that I have fought for with the deaf community where I live. (Some went as far as yelling at me for deciding to get a cochlear implant -- I won't bore you with the story -- but, wanted you to know where I was comming from.)

Sue Ann

Communication using sign language .... Long! There's been discussion about using sign language with people who are having communication difficulties. If we are talking about auditory problems as being the source of the communication difficulties, we could get into a great amount of techicalities about what sign system to use. Certainly, in the deaf community, there is little question that their language is the language of pictures made by the hands and is a language of its own. Various countries have their own sign languages, just as various countries have their own spoken languages. In North America, generally, the sign language system is American Sign Language (ASL). To North American deaf purists, ASL is the ONLY sign system that should be used. It IS the language for the deaf, without question! The problem is that if a deaf child grows up in a "hearing" home the ASL becomes "pigeon" or "pidgin" (however it is spelt, the language has been adapted for a very localized consumption and the "real" language is unavailable for patterning)! A number of different sign systems were developed, including Signing Exact English (SEE). These sign systems used the basic ASL signs and added refinements to adapt to the English language. This "Siglish" as it is called, is a useful tool in educational circles for the teaching of English vocabulary, syntax and grammar to a child who has never heard English spoken. These Siglish signs were developed by someone who thought it was the answer for hearing parents of deaf children ... but in actuality, their application for home use is limited usually to noun and verb refinement and becomes part of the home use "pidgin"!!!! English Syntax in Siglish, for home use, is impractical. As a teacher of the deaf, I used sign language in the classroom. Here is where I want to make a very important distinction. I used ASL to teach subject matter ... where developing concepts were the goals in such subjects as Science, Social Studies, Math. In fact, I used ASL in all subjects EXCEPT English!!! In English my goal was teaching ANOTHER language! In ASL, a sign for "car" is two handed as if holding a steering wheel and negotiating a turn and correction ... back and forth. In Siglish, this simple sign becomes augmented. A "car" now uses a fingerspelling "C", and a "van" has the same motion using the letter "V" and a "truck" uses the same sign motion using a "T"! One "car" has the "C" sign, but plural "cars" adds a letter "S" after the sign is finished. Verbs can show past tense, future tense, and "ing" endings. Adverbs can add the "ly" ending. Communication consists of refined ASL signs + English endings in an English word order. As you can see, this is a very concentrated form of the language and it isn't very practical for everyday communication. Most hearing families with a deaf family member develop their own "pidgin" and their communication, while not pure ASL, is easy and often follows English word order .... just because there is no ASL to pattern from! The problem, as I see it, is that it depends upon the goal for the communication. If your child has NO communication and you want to be able to get answers or give directions ... or even just "Yes" and "No" responses ..... then surely you will start as you would with any child learning a language .... with simple vocabulary. First one naming word, then the naming word (noun) and a doing word (verb) in combination. Remember how you talked to your child BEFORE you knew he had communication problems? Use ASL signs in the same simple way. Your ASL may never be purist ASL, but I guarantee that your "pidgin" ASL will work for you ... IF ... your child has the brain power to absorb, understand and produce sign. Personally, I had much less trouble learning and adapting to ASL (as a "pidgin" signer) than the frustration I experienced with using a Siglish system! If you are going to use Siglish for English language acquisition, then the child's ASL skill level must be beyond the "baby learning" stage and have some maturity. It is laborious and slow and the tendency is to get sloppy and forget to use the important (in Siglish) endings, thereby defeating the purpose of teaching English through the use of sign in combination with English syntax. If the communication difficulty is not due to deafness, then again a localized "pidgin" and likely a very SIMPLE form of "pidgin" sign is practical. Siglish use in this case is likely out of the question ... the simple ASL signs always were the basic visual idea to begin with. Sign is a motion picture language. It is received and sent using a different hemisphere and part of the brain than our spoken language. Studies have shown that if you use sign language in conjunction with a spoken language in a new-born infant through their language acquisition years, the child will have a MUCH GREATER language capacity, and vocabulary and will develop language skills earlier and more proficiently than using just the spoken language channel. What would I recommend to a parent wanting SOME communication. Don't get hung up on the "how's" ... give your child the gift of words! Others have given you sites for where to go to start to learn some signs .... think about the "why" for the sign (such as the driving motion for a vehicle) and then communicate THAT to your child!!! Shepherd Teacher of the Deaf Please contact mito-owner with any problems or questions.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the clarification. I agree that what's best for one is not what's best for all. I'm sorry if while reading your post I was blinded by all that I have fought for with the deaf community where I live. (Some went as far as yelling at me for deciding to get a cochlear implant -- I won't bore you with the story -- but, wanted you to know where I was comming from.)

Sue Ann

Communication using sign language .... Long! There's been discussion about using sign language with people who are having communication difficulties. If we are talking about auditory problems as being the source of the communication difficulties, we could get into a great amount of techicalities about what sign system to use. Certainly, in the deaf community, there is little question that their language is the language of pictures made by the hands and is a language of its own. Various countries have their own sign languages, just as various countries have their own spoken languages. In North America, generally, the sign language system is American Sign Language (ASL). To North American deaf purists, ASL is the ONLY sign system that should be used. It IS the language for the deaf, without question! The problem is that if a deaf child grows up in a "hearing" home the ASL becomes "pigeon" or "pidgin" (however it is spelt, the language has been adapted for a very localized consumption and the "real" language is unavailable for patterning)! A number of different sign systems were developed, including Signing Exact English (SEE). These sign systems used the basic ASL signs and added refinements to adapt to the English language. This "Siglish" as it is called, is a useful tool in educational circles for the teaching of English vocabulary, syntax and grammar to a child who has never heard English spoken. These Siglish signs were developed by someone who thought it was the answer for hearing parents of deaf children ... but in actuality, their application for home use is limited usually to noun and verb refinement and becomes part of the home use "pidgin"!!!! English Syntax in Siglish, for home use, is impractical. As a teacher of the deaf, I used sign language in the classroom. Here is where I want to make a very important distinction. I used ASL to teach subject matter ... where developing concepts were the goals in such subjects as Science, Social Studies, Math. In fact, I used ASL in all subjects EXCEPT English!!! In English my goal was teaching ANOTHER language! In ASL, a sign for "car" is two handed as if holding a steering wheel and negotiating a turn and correction ... back and forth. In Siglish, this simple sign becomes augmented. A "car" now uses a fingerspelling "C", and a "van" has the same motion using the letter "V" and a "truck" uses the same sign motion using a "T"! One "car" has the "C" sign, but plural "cars" adds a letter "S" after the sign is finished. Verbs can show past tense, future tense, and "ing" endings. Adverbs can add the "ly" ending. Communication consists of refined ASL signs + English endings in an English word order. As you can see, this is a very concentrated form of the language and it isn't very practical for everyday communication. Most hearing families with a deaf family member develop their own "pidgin" and their communication, while not pure ASL, is easy and often follows English word order .... just because there is no ASL to pattern from! The problem, as I see it, is that it depends upon the goal for the communication. If your child has NO communication and you want to be able to get answers or give directions ... or even just "Yes" and "No" responses ..... then surely you will start as you would with any child learning a language .... with simple vocabulary. First one naming word, then the naming word (noun) and a doing word (verb) in combination. Remember how you talked to your child BEFORE you knew he had communication problems? Use ASL signs in the same simple way. Your ASL may never be purist ASL, but I guarantee that your "pidgin" ASL will work for you ... IF ... your child has the brain power to absorb, understand and produce sign. Personally, I had much less trouble learning and adapting to ASL (as a "pidgin" signer) than the frustration I experienced with using a Siglish system! If you are going to use Siglish for English language acquisition, then the child's ASL skill level must be beyond the "baby learning" stage and have some maturity. It is laborious and slow and the tendency is to get sloppy and forget to use the important (in Siglish) endings, thereby defeating the purpose of teaching English through the use of sign in combination with English syntax. If the communication difficulty is not due to deafness, then again a localized "pidgin" and likely a very SIMPLE form of "pidgin" sign is practical. Siglish use in this case is likely out of the question ... the simple ASL signs always were the basic visual idea to begin with. Sign is a motion picture language. It is received and sent using a different hemisphere and part of the brain than our spoken language. Studies have shown that if you use sign language in conjunction with a spoken language in a new-born infant through their language acquisition years, the child will have a MUCH GREATER language capacity, and vocabulary and will develop language skills earlier and more proficiently than using just the spoken language channel. What would I recommend to a parent wanting SOME communication. Don't get hung up on the "how's" ... give your child the gift of words! Others have given you sites for where to go to start to learn some signs .... think about the "why" for the sign (such as the driving motion for a vehicle) and then communicate THAT to your child!!! Shepherd Teacher of the Deaf Please contact mito-owner with any problems or questions.

[Guest guest]

Sue Ann;

Good for you for following your best parental instincts. My aim

in my first post was to support parents rather than to take a side!

Jean

Sue Ann Bube wrote:

Thanks for

the clarification. I agree that what's best for one is not what's

best for all. I'm sorry if while reading your post I was blinded

by all that I have fought for with the deaf community where I live.

(Some went as far as yelling at me for deciding to get a cochlear implant

-- I won't bore you with the story -- but, wanted you to know where I was

comming from.) Sue

Ann

Communication using

sign language .... Long!

There's been discussion about using sign language with people

who are having

communication difficulties.

If we are talking about auditory problems as being the source of

the

communication difficulties, we could get into a great amount of

techicalities

about what sign system to use.

Certainly, in the deaf community, there is little question

that their language

is the language of pictures made by the hands and is a language

of its own.

Various countries have their own sign languages, just as various

countries have

their own spoken languages. In North America, generally,

the sign language

system is American Sign Language (ASL). To North American

deaf purists, ASL is

the ONLY sign system that should be used. It IS the language

for the deaf,

without question!

The problem is that if a deaf child grows up in a "hearing" home

the ASL becomes

"pigeon" or "pidgin" (however it is spelt, the language has been

adapted for a

very localized consumption and the "real" language is unavailable

for

patterning)!

A number of different sign systems were developed, including Signing

Exact

English (SEE). These sign systems used the basic ASL signs

and added refinements

to adapt to the English language. This "Siglish" as it is

called, is a useful

tool in educational circles for the teaching of English vocabulary,

syntax and

grammar to a child who has never heard English spoken. These

Siglish signs were

developed by someone who thought it was the answer for hearing

parents of deaf

children ... but in actuality, their application for home use is

limited usually

to noun and verb refinement and becomes part of the home use "pidgin"!!!!

English Syntax in Siglish, for home use, is impractical.

As a teacher of the deaf, I used sign language in the classroom.

Here is where I

want to make a very important distinction. I used ASL to

teach subject matter

.... where developing concepts were the goals in such subjects as

Science, Social

Studies, Math. In fact, I used ASL in all subjects EXCEPT

English!!! In English

my goal was teaching ANOTHER language!

In ASL, a sign for "car" is two handed as if holding a steering

wheel and

negotiating a turn and correction ... back and forth. In

Siglish, this simple

sign becomes augmented. A "car" now uses a fingerspelling

"C", and a "van" has

the same motion using the letter "V" and a "truck" uses the same

sign motion

using a "T"! One "car" has the "C" sign, but plural "cars"

adds a letter "S"

after the sign is finished. Verbs can show past tense, future

tense, and "ing"

endings. Adverbs can add the "ly" ending. Communication

consists of refined ASL

signs + English endings in an English word order.

As you can see, this is a very concentrated form of the language

and it isn't

very practical for everyday communication. Most hearing families

with a deaf

family member develop their own "pidgin" and their communication,

while not pure

ASL, is easy and often follows English word order .... just because

there is no

ASL to pattern from!

The problem, as I see it, is that it depends upon the goal for the

communication. If your child has NO communication and you

want to be able to get

answers or give directions ... or even just "Yes" and "No" responses

...... then

surely you will start as you would with any child learning a language

..... with

simple vocabulary. First one naming word, then the naming

word (noun) and a

doing word (verb) in combination. Remember how you talked

to your child BEFORE

you knew he had communication problems? Use ASL signs in

the same simple way.

Your ASL may never be purist ASL, but I guarantee that your "pidgin"

ASL will

work for you ... IF ... your child has the brain power to absorb,

understand and

produce sign.

Personally, I had much less trouble learning and adapting to ASL

(as a "pidgin"

signer) than the frustration I experienced with using a Siglish

system! If you

are going to use Siglish for English language acquisition, then

the child's ASL

skill level must be beyond the "baby learning" stage and have some

maturity. It

is laborious and slow and the tendency is to get sloppy and forget

to use the

important (in Siglish) endings, thereby defeating the purpose of

teaching English

through the use of sign in combination with English syntax.

If the communication difficulty is not due to deafness, then again

a localized

"pidgin" and likely a very SIMPLE form of "pidgin" sign is practical.

Siglish

use in this case is likely out of the question ... the simple ASL

signs always

were the basic visual idea to begin with.

Sign is a motion picture language. It is received and sent

using a different

hemisphere and part of the brain than our spoken language.

Studies have shown

that if you use sign language in conjunction with a spoken language

in a new-born

infant through their language acquisition years, the child will

have a MUCH

GREATER language capacity, and vocabulary and will develop language

skills

earlier and more proficiently than using just the spoken language

channel.

What would I recommend to a parent wanting SOME communication.

Don't get hung up

on the "how's" ... give your child the gift of words! Others

have given you

sites for where to go to start to learn some signs .... think about

the "why" for

the sign (such as the driving motion for a vehicle) and then communicate

THAT to

your child!!!

Shepherd

Teacher of the Deaf

Please contact mito-owner with any problems or questions.

[Guest guest]

Sue Ann;

Good for you for following your best parental instincts. My aim

in my first post was to support parents rather than to take a side!

Jean

Sue Ann Bube wrote:

Thanks for

the clarification. I agree that what's best for one is not what's

best for all. I'm sorry if while reading your post I was blinded

by all that I have fought for with the deaf community where I live.

(Some went as far as yelling at me for deciding to get a cochlear implant

-- I won't bore you with the story -- but, wanted you to know where I was

comming from.) Sue

Ann

Communication using

sign language .... Long!

There's been discussion about using sign language with people

who are having

communication difficulties.

If we are talking about auditory problems as being the source of

the

communication difficulties, we could get into a great amount of

techicalities

about what sign system to use.

Certainly, in the deaf community, there is little question

that their language

is the language of pictures made by the hands and is a language

of its own.

Various countries have their own sign languages, just as various

countries have

their own spoken languages. In North America, generally,

the sign language

system is American Sign Language (ASL). To North American

deaf purists, ASL is

the ONLY sign system that should be used. It IS the language

for the deaf,

without question!

The problem is that if a deaf child grows up in a "hearing" home

the ASL becomes

"pigeon" or "pidgin" (however it is spelt, the language has been

adapted for a

very localized consumption and the "real" language is unavailable

for

patterning)!

A number of different sign systems were developed, including Signing

Exact

English (SEE). These sign systems used the basic ASL signs

and added refinements

to adapt to the English language. This "Siglish" as it is

called, is a useful

tool in educational circles for the teaching of English vocabulary,

syntax and

grammar to a child who has never heard English spoken. These

Siglish signs were

developed by someone who thought it was the answer for hearing

parents of deaf

children ... but in actuality, their application for home use is

limited usually

to noun and verb refinement and becomes part of the home use "pidgin"!!!!

English Syntax in Siglish, for home use, is impractical.

As a teacher of the deaf, I used sign language in the classroom.

Here is where I

want to make a very important distinction. I used ASL to

teach subject matter

.... where developing concepts were the goals in such subjects as

Science, Social

Studies, Math. In fact, I used ASL in all subjects EXCEPT

English!!! In English

my goal was teaching ANOTHER language!

In ASL, a sign for "car" is two handed as if holding a steering

wheel and

negotiating a turn and correction ... back and forth. In

Siglish, this simple

sign becomes augmented. A "car" now uses a fingerspelling

"C", and a "van" has

the same motion using the letter "V" and a "truck" uses the same

sign motion

using a "T"! One "car" has the "C" sign, but plural "cars"

adds a letter "S"

after the sign is finished. Verbs can show past tense, future

tense, and "ing"

endings. Adverbs can add the "ly" ending. Communication

consists of refined ASL

signs + English endings in an English word order.

As you can see, this is a very concentrated form of the language

and it isn't

very practical for everyday communication. Most hearing families

with a deaf

family member develop their own "pidgin" and their communication,

while not pure

ASL, is easy and often follows English word order .... just because

there is no

ASL to pattern from!

The problem, as I see it, is that it depends upon the goal for the

communication. If your child has NO communication and you

want to be able to get

answers or give directions ... or even just "Yes" and "No" responses

...... then

surely you will start as you would with any child learning a language

..... with

simple vocabulary. First one naming word, then the naming

word (noun) and a

doing word (verb) in combination. Remember how you talked

to your child BEFORE

you knew he had communication problems? Use ASL signs in

the same simple way.

Your ASL may never be purist ASL, but I guarantee that your "pidgin"

ASL will

work for you ... IF ... your child has the brain power to absorb,

understand and

produce sign.

Personally, I had much less trouble learning and adapting to ASL

(as a "pidgin"

signer) than the frustration I experienced with using a Siglish

system! If you

are going to use Siglish for English language acquisition, then

the child's ASL

skill level must be beyond the "baby learning" stage and have some

maturity. It

is laborious and slow and the tendency is to get sloppy and forget

to use the

important (in Siglish) endings, thereby defeating the purpose of

teaching English

through the use of sign in combination with English syntax.

If the communication difficulty is not due to deafness, then again

a localized

"pidgin" and likely a very SIMPLE form of "pidgin" sign is practical.

Siglish

use in this case is likely out of the question ... the simple ASL

signs always

were the basic visual idea to begin with.

Sign is a motion picture language. It is received and sent

using a different

hemisphere and part of the brain than our spoken language.

Studies have shown

that if you use sign language in conjunction with a spoken language

in a new-born

infant through their language acquisition years, the child will

have a MUCH

GREATER language capacity, and vocabulary and will develop language

skills

earlier and more proficiently than using just the spoken language

channel.

What would I recommend to a parent wanting SOME communication.

Don't get hung up

on the "how's" ... give your child the gift of words! Others

have given you

sites for where to go to start to learn some signs .... think about

the "why" for

the sign (such as the driving motion for a vehicle) and then communicate

THAT to

your child!!!

Shepherd

Teacher of the Deaf

Please contact mito-owner with any problems or questions.