Re: bad tolerance to scd yogurt

[Guest guest]

I was hoping someone would have some advise to share on the yogurt issue below.  Also, is it normal to still have D after 3 weeks on the diet?  Subject: bad tolerance to scd yogurtTo: BTVC-SCD Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 8:05 AM

Hi everyone,

I've been on the SCD for just under 3 weeks and have had good results. The problem I find is that I can't tolerate the SCD yogurt (I make it by the book). Everytime I touch the stuff I start to bleed again, and get lots of gas. Interestingly when I take VSL#3 (the only thing I do which is not diet compliant) there are no such problems. I was hoping to stop the VSL and enjoy a cup a day of the yogurt and its probiotic benefits but now am not sure of what to do? Can changing the starter help? (I use the Yogourmet one from Lyo-San). Can using goat or almond milk help? Or is this just a matter of time and I should wait a month and try a small amount then, perhaps after some healing? Has anyone else been in this situation? I feel like I'm only doing half the diet given that I can't consume the yogurt. Any tips would be appreciated!

Thanks

[Guest guest]

I was hoping someone would have some advise to share on the yogurt issue below. Also, is it normal to still have D after 3 weeks on the diet? Get rid of the notion of normal - all of us are idiosyncratic in our reactions and have a wide variety of illnesses. It does happen that some people still haveD or C after 3 weeks, certainly. What are you eating? What are you using for supplements? (con't below)Subject: bad tolerance to scd yogurtTo: BTVC-SCD Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 8:05 AMHi everyone,I've been on the SCD for just under 3 weeks and have had good results. The problem I find is that I can't tolerate the SCD yogurt (I make it by the book). Everytime I touch the stuff I start to bleed again, and get lots of gas. Interestingly when I take VSL#3 (the only thing I do which is not diet compliant) there are no such problems. I was hoping to stop the VSL and enjoy a cup a day of the yogurt and its probiotic benefits but now am not sure of what to do? Well that's way too much to start with. Start with a teaspoon. If you have a bad result there,wait some time then halve it, and so on, until you reduce down to an 1/8 of a teaspoon and stayat that level for a while if it is okay. If you still have a bad result there, wait a month and try again. Can changing the starter help? (I use the Yogourmet one from Lyo-San). And I might try the Dannon or total starter rather than thepowder because they are somewhat less intense, IMO. Can using goat or almond milk help? Try goat's milk instead of cow's milk. Almond milk yogurt is a different story. Or is this just a matter of time and I should wait a month and try a small amount then, perhaps after some healing? Has anyone else been in this situation?Lots of people are/have been in it. Mara

[Guest guest]

I was hoping someone would have some advise to share on the yogurt issue below. Also, is it normal to still have D after 3 weeks on the diet? Get rid of the notion of normal - all of us are idiosyncratic in our reactions and have a wide variety of illnesses. It does happen that some people still haveD or C after 3 weeks, certainly. What are you eating? What are you using for supplements? (con't below)Subject: bad tolerance to scd yogurtTo: BTVC-SCD Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 8:05 AMHi everyone,I've been on the SCD for just under 3 weeks and have had good results. The problem I find is that I can't tolerate the SCD yogurt (I make it by the book). Everytime I touch the stuff I start to bleed again, and get lots of gas. Interestingly when I take VSL#3 (the only thing I do which is not diet compliant) there are no such problems. I was hoping to stop the VSL and enjoy a cup a day of the yogurt and its probiotic benefits but now am not sure of what to do? Well that's way too much to start with. Start with a teaspoon. If you have a bad result there,wait some time then halve it, and so on, until you reduce down to an 1/8 of a teaspoon and stayat that level for a while if it is okay. If you still have a bad result there, wait a month and try again. Can changing the starter help? (I use the Yogourmet one from Lyo-San). And I might try the Dannon or total starter rather than thepowder because they are somewhat less intense, IMO. Can using goat or almond milk help? Try goat's milk instead of cow's milk. Almond milk yogurt is a different story. Or is this just a matter of time and I should wait a month and try a small amount then, perhaps after some healing? Has anyone else been in this situation?Lots of people are/have been in it. Mara

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm not an SCD pro by all means but I can share my own experience. At the

beginning of the diet I was intolerant to all milk products. I didn't take

yogurt at all. After a while, I started introducing it very slowly: 1

tablespoon one day, 2 tbsps 3 days later to 1/4 cup per day, etc. Don't make it

too fatty at first. Start with 2% milk and then you can progress to

homogenized... If you are intolerant to milk products, usually goat's milk is

easier to handle. Make the yogurt the same way you would with cow's milk. If

this still creates problems for you, you may have to make your yogurt with

almond milk.

Hope this helps a little,

GERDS and chronic C

SCD 1 yr

>

>

> Subject: bad tolerance to scd yogurt

> To: BTVC-SCD

> Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 8:05 AM

>

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> Hi everyone,

>

> I've been on the SCD for just under 3 weeks and have had good results. The

problem I find is that I can't tolerate the SCD yogurt (I make it by the book).

Everytime I touch the stuff I start to bleed again, and get lots of gas.

Interestingly when I take VSL#3 (the only thing I do which is not diet

compliant) there are no such problems. I was hoping to stop the VSL and enjoy a

cup a day of the yogurt and its probiotic benefits but now am not sure of what

to do? Can changing the starter help? (I use the Yogourmet one from Lyo-San).

Can using goat or almond milk help? Or is this just a matter of time and I

should wait a month and try a small amount then, perhaps after some healing?

Has anyone else been in this situation? I feel like I'm only doing half the

diet given that I can't consume the yogurt. Any tips would be appreciated!

>

>

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm not an SCD pro by all means but I can share my own experience. At the

beginning of the diet I was intolerant to all milk products. I didn't take

yogurt at all. After a while, I started introducing it very slowly: 1

tablespoon one day, 2 tbsps 3 days later to 1/4 cup per day, etc. Don't make it

too fatty at first. Start with 2% milk and then you can progress to

homogenized... If you are intolerant to milk products, usually goat's milk is

easier to handle. Make the yogurt the same way you would with cow's milk. If

this still creates problems for you, you may have to make your yogurt with

almond milk.

Hope this helps a little,

GERDS and chronic C

SCD 1 yr

>

>

> Subject: bad tolerance to scd yogurt

> To: BTVC-SCD

> Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 8:05 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I've been on the SCD for just under 3 weeks and have had good results. The

problem I find is that I can't tolerate the SCD yogurt (I make it by the book).

Everytime I touch the stuff I start to bleed again, and get lots of gas.

Interestingly when I take VSL#3 (the only thing I do which is not diet

compliant) there are no such problems. I was hoping to stop the VSL and enjoy a

cup a day of the yogurt and its probiotic benefits but now am not sure of what

to do? Can changing the starter help? (I use the Yogourmet one from Lyo-San).

Can using goat or almond milk help? Or is this just a matter of time and I

should wait a month and try a small amount then, perhaps after some healing?

Has anyone else been in this situation? I feel like I'm only doing half the

diet given that I can't consume the yogurt. Any tips would be appreciated!

>

>

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 10:13 AM 3/23/2009, you wrote:

I was hoping someone would have

some advise to share on the yogurt issue below. Also, is it normal

to still have D after 3 weeks on the diet?

It's not impossible that you would still be having diarrhea. How long

have you been sick?

One thing you might look into is dripping or draining the yogurt before

having some... some people react to the galactose in regular SCD yogurt,

and draining it gets rid of a great deal of it the galactose.

VSL #3 is definitely not legal.

Were you off dairy before starting SCD? If so, you may need to introduce

the yogurt gradually.

What have you been eating the last three weeks?

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

At 10:13 AM 3/23/2009, you wrote:

I was hoping someone would have

some advise to share on the yogurt issue below. Also, is it normal

to still have D after 3 weeks on the diet?

It's not impossible that you would still be having diarrhea. How long

have you been sick?

One thing you might look into is dripping or draining the yogurt before

having some... some people react to the galactose in regular SCD yogurt,

and draining it gets rid of a great deal of it the galactose.

VSL #3 is definitely not legal.

Were you off dairy before starting SCD? If so, you may need to introduce

the yogurt gradually.

What have you been eating the last three weeks?

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the feedback, it's so nice to have my questions answered. It's not

like I can talk to my GI doctor about this. I'm glad to have found such a

wonderful community!

I've been ill with UC (actually indeterminate Crohn's) with a constant 2 year

flare, which only steroids have been able to help. Nowadays even the prednisone

has been less than effective though. The SCD has reduced blood & D for me far

better than the prednisone. I generally hovered around 10 BMs/day with some

level of blood until doing the SCD. After 3 weeks, I've got that down to about

6-7 with far less blood and managed to reduce the prednisone over that period

from 60 to 35 mg.

(BTW I've been eating lactose free dairy for years now)

So as to the original question about yogurt tolerance, the next step is to try

to increase the yogurt consumption very gradually... And dripping it/changing

the starter. Thanks for the tip on how to time this, perhaps if I go symptom

free I can try to add a half teaspoon every day/other day.. and otherwise just

be patient.

And perhaps trying the goat milk version if the above ideas don't work.

How long did it take you to get back lactose/fructose enzymes and the ability to

digest those things with less trouble? I imagine that, for me, after 35 years

of a poor SAD and sugary diet, theres a lot of damage to be healed. In BTVC, if

I understood correctly, Elaine says some damage may be permanent. I hope that's

not going to be the case.

Best regards

> >I was hoping someone would have some advise to

> >share on the yogurt issue below. Also, is it

> >normal to still have D after 3 weeks on the diet?

>

> It's not impossible that you would still be

> having diarrhea. How long have you been sick?

>

> One thing you might look into is dripping or

> draining the yogurt before having some... some

> people react to the galactose in regular SCD

> yogurt, and draining it gets rid of a great deal of it the galactose.

>

> VSL #3 is definitely not legal.

>

> Were you off dairy before starting SCD? If so,

> you may need to introduce the yogurt gradually.

>

> What have you been eating the last three weeks?

>

>

> — Marilyn

> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> Darn Good SCD Cook

> No Human Children

> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

> Thanks for the feedback, it's so nice to have my questions answered. It's not

like I can talk to my GI doctor about this. I'm glad to have found such a

wonderful community!

Welcome to the BTVC-SCD abode!!

> I've been ill with UC (actually indeterminate Crohn's) with a constant 2 year

flare, which only steroids have been able to help. Nowadays even the prednisone

has been less than effective though. The SCD has reduced blood & D for me far

better than the prednisone. I generally hovered around 10 BMs/day with some

level of blood until doing the SCD. After 3 weeks, I've got that down to about

6-7 with far less blood and managed to reduce the prednisone over that period

from 60 to 35 mg.

I totally relate to this. I have been in an on-going flare for 13 years with

SCD being the only thing to help. I found that Prednisone just got me out of

the " danger zone " ... Yes, I have tried many many meds.

I am happy things are getting better for you- it takes time. I would say start

being very careful with the Prednisone taper- once reaching 20mg. Go slow and

steady so you don't flare. How long have you been on Pred this time around?

> (BTW I've been eating lactose free dairy for years now)

Coolness. What kind of lactose free dairy? You mean that you fermented your

own or like Lactaid type stuff?

> So as to the original question about yogurt tolerance, the next step is to try

to increase the yogurt consumption very gradually... And dripping it/changing

the starter. Thanks for the tip on how to time this, perhaps if I go symptom

free I can try to add a half teaspoon every day/other day.. and otherwise just

be patient.

Yep, patience is key!! Now if only I could listen to this advice!

> And perhaps trying the goat milk version if the above ideas don't work.

Yep!

> How long did it take you to get back lactose/fructose enzymes and the ability

to digest those things with less trouble? I imagine that, for me, after 35

years of a poor SAD and sugary diet, theres a lot of damage to be healed. In

BTVC, if I understood correctly, Elaine says some damage may be permanent. I

hope that's not going to be the case.

This is all very individual.. It's hard to know exact timing as everyone has

extremely individualized reactions... Time will just tell for you as healing

takes place. Sorry to be so vague I wish I had more answers but you will find

that even with this challenge the beauty of SCD is that we learn what is best

for our own bodies- so although the guidelines work for many of us it still

calls for fine tuning. With this fine tuning we find what we -personally- need

to heal. It's pretty amazing really.

Some people have scarring or narrowing which the diet does not heal but many

people despite this scenario do very well since the inflammation is reduced to a

non existent state.

Marilyn always says we don't get sick over night and so the same goes for

healing it takes time. So, keep that in mind.

Good Luck and keep asking questions!

Jodi

[Guest guest]

At 08:45 PM 3/24/2009, you wrote:

How long did it take you to get

back lactose/fructose enzymes and the ability to digest those things with

less trouble? I imagine that, for me, after 35 years of a poor SAD and

sugary diet, theres a lot of damage to be healed. In BTVC, if I

understood correctly, Elaine says some damage may be permanent. I hope

that's not going to be the case.

,

I had 25 years of so-called " healthy " diet to make up for when

I started SCD. I am still healing, but part of that is because there is

one supplement I use which is not SCD-legal, but which I can't do without

because my alternative is codeine. Elaine was still alive when I

started, and I was able to discuss the supplement with her. She said to

use it, but cautioned me that I could expect slowed healing because of

that -- and she has proved absolutely correct.

I, too, hope the damage isn't permanent.

I had a rather dramatic example last year of how I do not tolerate

lactose. After my cancer surgery, I was prescribed 800 mg Motrin for pain

issues. Turns out Motrin is made with lactose as a filler.

I can state, unequivocally, that trying to get out of bed and run for the

toilet because you have explosive diarrhea when you ALSO have a 24 "

incision in your gut which is well-stapled is an experience to be

avoided.

It did teach me to look up absolutely anything a doc wants to prescribe.

The so-called " inactive ingredients " in too much stuff may have

no effect on what the medication does, but it can have an astonishing

effect on US.

OTOH, I tolerate more fruit now than I would have ever thought possible.

It's amazing!

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Hi, as to the eating of dairy, it's pretty much been limited to cheddar cheese

b/c of the lack of lactose in it.

What I'm finding to be really good news so far (keeping those fingers crossed)

is that the SCD just made it possible to finally use a retention enema that can

supplement the prednisone... targeting the real problem area, without the

systemic issues that prednisone creates. So that will hopefully help with the

taper. Thanks for the tip re hitting the lower doses of prednisone. The 25 mg

and below zone scares me- hoping those adrenals wake up quickly!

I'm sorry you've been through a 13 year flare. 2 years for me was awful I can't

imagine what 13 years can do. It gets so scary when the standard meds stop

working over time and the GI starts pushing surgery as the only option left.

Not to mention the quality of life issues.

One thing about SCD which concerns me still is if I need antibiotics again in

the future (which really worsened my flare). I don't know what I will do then

as it will wreak havoc but sometimes antibiotics really are necessary. Perhaps

there is something to spare the bacteria in the process next time.

Here's a bit of history: My GI recently pushed me towards Imuran which after a

few weeks gave me a fever of 40.2 deg. c. We rushed to ER after the fever

wouldn't subside and it turned out my bone marrow was supressed, and I had no

immune system left (neutropenia). I was then

put on broad spectrum antibiotics (I forgot the name) which then made me

severely flare (vs a very low level flare before that was livable). And after a

few months, here I am. What's interesting is that the whole debacle may have

been a good thing if it led me to the SCD and the SCD continues to work.

Without the SCD I would never have gone to the root healing, I would have only

continued applying bandaids like anti-inflammatories but nothing to heal the

root cause of the problem. Perhaps over time, the system does heal to a great

degree and if we ever do need antibiotics, we can handle them better. Time will

tell and one thing this disease has taught me is that you do have to take one

day at a time!

Thanks for the warm welcome to the group and all the insights,

>

> Hi Steve,

>

>

> > Thanks for the feedback, it's so nice to have my questions answered. It's

not like I can talk to my GI doctor about this. I'm glad to have found such a

wonderful community!

>

>

> Welcome to the BTVC-SCD abode!!

>

>

>

> > I've been ill with UC (actually indeterminate Crohn's) with a constant 2

year flare, which only steroids have been able to help. Nowadays even the

prednisone has been less than effective though. The SCD has reduced blood & D

for me far better than the prednisone. I generally hovered around 10 BMs/day

with some level of blood until doing the SCD. After 3 weeks, I've got that

down to about 6-7 with far less blood and managed to reduce the prednisone over

that period from 60 to 35 mg.

>

>

>

> I totally relate to this. I have been in an on-going flare for 13 years with

SCD being the only thing to help. I found that Prednisone just got me out of

the " danger zone " ... Yes, I have tried many many meds.

>

> I am happy things are getting better for you- it takes time. I would say

start being very careful with the Prednisone taper- once reaching 20mg. Go slow

and steady so you don't flare. How long have you been on Pred this time around?

>

>

>

> > (BTW I've been eating lactose free dairy for years now)

>

>

>

> Coolness. What kind of lactose free dairy? You mean that you fermented your

own or like Lactaid type stuff?

>

>

>

> > So as to the original question about yogurt tolerance, the next step is to

try to increase the yogurt consumption very gradually... And dripping

it/changing the starter. Thanks for the tip on how to time this, perhaps if I

go symptom free I can try to add a half teaspoon every day/other day.. and

otherwise just be patient.

>

>

> Yep, patience is key!! Now if only I could listen to this advice!

>

>

>

> > And perhaps trying the goat milk version if the above ideas don't work.

>

>

> Yep!

>

>

>

> > How long did it take you to get back lactose/fructose enzymes and the

ability to digest those things with less trouble? I imagine that, for me, after

35 years of a poor SAD and sugary diet, theres a lot of damage to be healed. In

BTVC, if I understood correctly, Elaine says some damage may be permanent. I

hope that's not going to be the case.

>

>

>

>

> This is all very individual.. It's hard to know exact timing as everyone has

extremely individualized reactions... Time will just tell for you as healing

takes place. Sorry to be so vague I wish I had more answers but you will find

that even with this challenge the beauty of SCD is that we learn what is best

for our own bodies- so although the guidelines work for many of us it still

calls for fine tuning. With this fine tuning we find what we -personally- need

to heal. It's pretty amazing really.

>

> Some people have scarring or narrowing which the diet does not heal but many

people despite this scenario do very well since the inflammation is reduced to a

non existent state.

>

> Marilyn always says we don't get sick over night and so the same goes for

healing it takes time. So, keep that in mind.

>

> Good Luck and keep asking questions!

>

> Jodi

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> Hi, as to the eating of dairy, it's pretty much been limited to cheddar cheese

b/c of the lack of lactose in it.

Ohh ok.. I wish I was that smart LOL!!

Can you picture me eating 4 motzerella string cheese while saying this? LOL.

> What I'm finding to be really good news so far (keeping those fingers crossed)

is that the SCD just made it possible to finally use a retention enema that can

supplement the prednisone... targeting the real problem area, without the

systemic issues that prednisone creates. So that will hopefully help with the

taper. Thanks for the tip re hitting the lower doses of prednisone. The 25 mg

and below zone scares me- hoping those adrenals wake up quickly!

Fingers totally crossed!

I found that supplementing with DHEA helped me get off of Prednisone more

easily. Really boosted the Adrenals. But, this diet is not supplement happy so

keep that in mind.

> One thing about SCD which concerns me still is if I need antibiotics again in

the future (which really worsened my flare). I don't know what I will do then

as it will wreak havoc but sometimes antibiotics really are necessary. Perhaps

there is something to spare the bacteria in the process next time.

I understand your concern. This happened to me and I got Clostridium Difficile

from antibiotics that caused me to be hospitalized for a month in an isolated

room needing units of blood transfused. Antibiotics are a very potent and

powerful thing. Don't get that head of yours too worried though.. focus on the

diet. As your gut ecology gets better you'll have more stamina. Hopefully

you'll be able to tolerate SCD yogurt the legal probiotic.

Sometime Antibiotics are necessary so when taking an antibiotic keep in mind

that S Boulardii which is a " friendly " yeast really helps mitigate antibiotic

damage. I take it now all the time as it helps rebuild me from all the

antibiotic damage my gut has endured. Just recently I was given antibiotics

that caused anal leakage and I started taking the S Boulardii and it is really

helping! So Elaine thought about this to!!! Bless her! Also, did you get the

list from Grammy about the most hurtful antibiotics for those of us with Gut

disease? It's a good list to know what to avoid. I sadly was given Clindamycin

which nearly killed me (amazing I'm alive really)

> Here's a bit of history: My GI recently pushed me towards Imuran which after a

few weeks gave me a fever of 40.2 deg. c. We rushed to ER after the fever

wouldn't subside and it turned out my bone marrow was supressed, and I had no

immune system left (neutropenia). I was then

> put on broad spectrum antibiotics (I forgot the name) which then made me

severely flare (vs a very low level flare before that was livable). And after a

few months, here I am. What's interesting is that the whole debacle may have

been a good thing if it led me to the SCD and the SCD continues to work.

Without the SCD I would never have gone to the root healing, I would have only

continued applying bandaids like anti-inflammatories but nothing to heal the

root cause of the problem. Perhaps over time, the system does heal to a great

degree and if we ever do need antibiotics, we can handle them better. Time will

tell and one thing this disease has taught me is that you do have to take one

day at a time!

I am so sorry you went through this. Must of been hell and scary.

I know what you mean that this path of excruciating suffering leads some of us

to find this diet and have conviction to stick with it.

I really hope and pray for you that you heal.

It takes time and patience though- another one of those life lessons..

So keep reading and asking questions..

It's so worth it!

Good luck!

Jodi