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I think any relationship is a challenge.....irregardless of weight....wls...straight...gay....age...sex...etc...etc...

coming from someone 51 yrs old....and these are just my personal opinions...but i have lived alot of life...and discovered many things...along the way...let me share....and if it helps...great..if not...im sorry....maybe someone else will be able to help you gem...and u are a gem...i read many of your posts cause you are so real...so honest...and so vulnerable....i have not had wls yet....and have actually canceled it till further notice due to almost dying earlier this yr...i know u have to be very healthy and im not at the present time....so i have more postponed the whole process until im well enough again....but i can relate to u gem....ive heard this before after weight loss surgery...your body has made a major change...and so have u inside....u are not unique....:)

one thing i have discovered in just .....living.....is that men are very visual and logical....and women are very emotional....again.....this observation is not in 100% of all.....just a generality....u sound to me gem....as if u are both...which is unique in a man....and very special...im kinda both....having raised my sons almost alone...i have had to be both logical...and emotional ...and i have a very visual side...in any crisis situation...im logical...and in the middle of the nite...my emotional side comes out....and i kinda break down....only to recover the logical side the next day and rationalize all of it....i can truly relate to your posts....:)

i think.....and take my words for what they are worth....your mate is very worried....when u were fat...supposedly unattractive....your mate felt very secure...in all ways....that u would always be there....always be his....no matter if he bought u flowers...or didnt....alot of men and women think being fat no one will want them....and their mates play on that...my x hubby was like that...and he reinforced that daily...what he did not realize is that one day...i would regain my self confidence and no longer believe him...realize that the true man or woman.......would see someone very special and unique....and fat or thin had nothing to do with it...there are a few people who truly see the beauty inside a person...the outside fades as u age anyway...unless u stay under a knife throughout the aging process...and try running from it....

my nutrionist and i talked alot about this very thing while going thru the process of wls...he said if someone has emotional baggage...wls is not going to be a fix all....they lose...but have to face the emotional part of it all one day...and deal with that...before they obtain true happiness...wls is only one tool....and just that...:)

as is very normal in a relationship...any time anyone changes...and grows...it is very threatening to the mate...they are no longer "the same"....they are no longer content with the way things "were"...and the mate must now grow to be with them...or leave...sometimes its easier to just leave....but if they truly love u..they will make the effort to grow with you...and love your changes...it is a true test of any relationship....and yours is being tested hon...in all ways...:)

you are now holding your head higher...you are walking more confident....you are wanting more as you know it is out there...with your mate...or without him...you are slowly realizing you are not that little boy you were.....the one chosen last....the one made fun of...and you are rejoicing in your accomplishments...in both dealing with food and fat....and it is a mind altering experience...so yes hon.....u are changing and growing....and it is scarey to your mate...he is seeing a "YOU" he has probably never experienced before....and he is being put in a position where he may have to make the effort to either rejoice with you.....and show pride in all u are becoming...or leave....

as far as juan carlos....that may or may not have been just lust...lust and love are so close...and lust is everywhere hon....as is temptation...it is up to u to decide if you want to pursue it....or walk away from it...we all go through that...couples that truly love each other walk away from lust...they know love is far too special to bend to the lust that confronts them daily...its just not "worth it" for five minutes of lust.....to jeopardize the love they cherish...in my opinion...lust is a choice...love is an intense emotional feeling...and not a choice...it is just ........."there"......kind of like.....when u walk into a room of people....u may see people who u are visually attracted to...u choose to walk up to them....and choose to seek them out for an encounter...lust...but then u meet someone that may or may not be the "perfect" one visually...but as get to know them......you see qualities in them that u respect...admire...that seperates them from others u have met....and u grow to love all that they are...not just what they represent visually......and you do not choose to love them.....u just do...you feel lost when they are not close...you think of them at odd moments...you feel lonely when u are with others but not them....very big difference...:)

hon...u are a very special remarkable man...and you are making very remarkable steps in your visual makeup as well as your emotional makeup...your love is being tested....your relationship is being tested...just be content knowing whatever happens in your life...it is all going to be alright....you will be alright...and if it isnt zach...it will be someone else...right now...just keep yourself focused....zach is going to have to deal with his own problems...and if he truly loves you...he will seek the help he needs to deal with all of the changes in your relationship...if not..be glad u are growing...and u will find a unique joy in your next relationship...u will be that much older......wiser....and have learned alot...from your last one...

i dont let anyone make me sad.....life is very short no matter how long we live...and that one day of unhappiness can never be recovered...i choose to wake up each morning and thank god for another day...and i refuse to let anyone bring me down for any reason....i choose to spend each day being the best i can be....life is a true gift hon....and the gift i can leave behind in all that have known me....is that "she really loved life....she gave to others...she was warm and loving...and all around her felt happiness around her...."

without the "downs" in life......we wouldnt see all the "ups" and truly appreciate them...or grow......or learn....

one more thing...it is as i told my sons as they grew up.....even perfect people are bagged on....chosen last sometimes....etc...sometimes for being "too perfect"...if someone is looking for something to make u feel "less than"...they will find it...why do u think so many "perfect" people are unhappy...if its not your weight...its your nose.....if not your nose...its your feet....if not your feet.....its your height...if not.....etc....etc..etc...most who bag on others.....are very unhappy people inside...and want others to be just as miserable around them...very insecure....very jealous for whatever reason....and think they look better making fun of others....but most can see thru it all..and feel very sorry for them...what u think of yourself is all that matters...and should matter....that u can look in the mirror and smile...and be proud of all u are...:)

by the way.....i raised two incredible men....very self confident......very sucessful in their relationships and professionally....and all ask me......how did u do it....alone....trust me hon...love...mutual respect...communication...honesty....that was it...:) very easy...

i didnt mean to make this a book...but my heart went out to you cause u seemed so sad......so confused....and that is so not u....i pray u regain your self confident nature...and go on hon.....zach will have to face his own demons....his own insecurities.......and deal with it...just as u have.... u know? just try to love him thru it....and understand what he is going thru.....as far as his attitude in flowers....yeah...they die...but so do we...so are we also a waste of money and emotions?

with flowers.....its just the thought.......even a single rose...its not the actual flower.....:)

nite sweetie...bless u..

barbie

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Gemello,

*Sigh*... Honey, honey, honey...

You are hooked up with one UNROMANTIC man. Also, like a lot of

stereotypical guys, he doesn't appear to be very open with (or even

aware of?) his feelings. I could be wrong, but... is he a sweet

neanderthal?

Is he bummed about your scars? Turned off? Scared to hurt you? What IS

the deal here? Or did he just snap at you because he's PMSing for some

reason of his own?

Your idea to expand your friendships is very mature. Your approach to

is MEGA mature. I mean, for you two to sit down and actually

discuss what you will or won't do... well, how very Dr. Phil of you!

I've known a number of guys in OPEN relationships who weren't that

responsible!

I think you're way way in your head here. I mean, it would have been

nice if JC had said a little more about how simply irresistible you are

and how difficult it is to pass up this opportunity. But then if he did

that wouldn't it make your friendship a little more awkward? Yeah, sure,

maybe he has issues about your surgery, or wondering about the emotional

ramifications and wanting to wait and see... but I think you are

overlooking the really good stuff, which is that this man thinks you're

hot enough to have to talk to you about why he can't get next to you.

Yum. Maybe someday down the line you and JC... Oh, no, I won't go there.

Anyway, it's much more comfortable to fret about being the fat kid whom

no one wants to be with, than to recognize the real possibility that

you're taking off into realms of gorgeousness and you may not even be

aware of it. Walk next to ME and I'll tell you whether the boys we pass

are looking at you or not... And then you'll just have to deal with it,

Mister!

Martha

On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 22:27:22 -0000, " Gemello DiGiovanni "

said:

>

> Hello everyone:

> (Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open

> discussion of relationship/sexual issues)

> Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to

> share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately,

> this

> one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not

> only

> help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the

> relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.

> Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most

> painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this

> weight

> loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so

> for our

> spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us

> many

> times that losing weight does not solve all problems and make

> our

> lives perfect and easy.

> Recently, I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace

> the

> ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that

> once I

> lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be

> uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.

> I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently

> met

> someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no

> physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and

> there

> are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be

> different about our partners, but we both love our partners

> dearly.

> We met last night and discussed our lives and where our

> relationships

> were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends

> and not

> take our attraction to another level.

> I think this is the best outcome. But on the way home, my old

> demon,

> Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from

> him

> in a long time (about a year and a half). was the

> one

> who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was

> relieved to

> have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best.

> However,

> there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school

> dance

> that no one wants to dance with or worse the loser who gets

> picked

> last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the

> loser no

> one wanted on his/her team.

> On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself,

> reassure

> myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had

> the

> presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like

> crap,

> though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel

> these

> feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before,

> this

> type of episode would have put me head-deep into the

> refrigerator and

> the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated

> with

> high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.

> But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something

> is

> wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know,

> I've

> been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual

> relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric

> bypass,

> it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the

> reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars.

> The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put

> their

> arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm

> afraid

> or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch

> on the

> small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift

> because

> it's a Tuesday afternoon and they were thinking of me. I used

> to do

> that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not

> demonstrative

> at all; it's not in his nature. In fact he's just like my Dad:

> dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding

> person.

> I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself

> on

> our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers

> are a

> waste of money because they die. I know we can't have

> everything in

> life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you

> feel

> loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it

> out

> on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I

> do

> get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make

> fun

> of me.

> So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works

> with my

> PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I

> won't

> wait until I've lost control and started making bad choices in

> my

> eating. That would make my feelings even worse.

> Well, I just wanted to share this. I don't know if anyone else

> has

> experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the

> process has

> been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation

> doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the

> feelings

> I'm going through.

> Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What

> would

> I do without this group?

> Gemello

> open rny 06/03/03

> reconstruction 05/25/04

> -138 lbs

>

>

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Hi Gemello....

Man a lot of things come to mind as I read your post. First let me

say thank you. Thank you for be so open and honest about your

feelings in all of this " trial " . I want to say a lot but I think the

best thing I can say at this time is that thoughts are just

that....thoughts. It's OK to have thoughts it's how you act on those

thoughts that's important. Remember, you haven't done anything

wrong ! When I have discussions with people about relationship

difficulties I suggest that they explore their motives and I think

that you are doing just that by seeking out answers from us as well

as the professionsals. I read Barbie and Martha's responses to you

and I agree....maybe your significant other is afraid. Afraid of the

new you and he just can't bear the thought of being without you but

does not know how to express that to you. I think I would print out

your post and share it with him which would certainly stimulate

dialogue and hopefully get you some of the satisfaction you seek.

Hang in there bud and please keep us updated.

Regards,

Gordy

> Hello everyone:

>

> (Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open

> discussion of relationship/sexual issues)

>

> Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to

> share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately,

this

> one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not

only

> help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the

> relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.

>

> Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most

> painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this weight

> loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so for

our

> spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us

many

> times that losing weight does not solve all problems and make our

> lives perfect and easy.

>

> Recently, I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace the

> ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that once

I

> lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be

> uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.

>

> I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently met

> someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no

> physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and

there

> are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be

> different about our partners, but we both love our partners

dearly.

> We met last night and discussed our lives and where our

relationships

> were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends and

not

> take our attraction to another level.

>

> I think this is the best outcome. But on the way home, my old

demon,

> Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from

him

> in a long time (about a year and a half). was the one

> who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was relieved

to

> have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best.

However,

> there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school dance

> that no one wants to dance with or worse… the loser who gets picked

> last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the loser

no

> one wanted on his/her team.

>

> On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself, reassure

> myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had the

> presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like

crap,

> though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel

these

> feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before,

this

> type of episode would have put me head-deep into the refrigerator

and

> the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated with

> high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.

>

> But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something is

> wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know,

I've

> been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual

> relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric bypass,

> it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the

> reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars.

>

> The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put

their

> arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm

afraid

> or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch on

the

> small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift because

> it's a Tuesday afternoon and they were thinking of me. I used to

do

> that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not

demonstrative

> at all; it's not in his nature. In fact he's just like my Dad:

> dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding

person.

>

> I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself on

> our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers are

a

> waste of money because they die. I know we can't have everything

in

> life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you feel

> loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it out

> on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I do

> get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make fun

> of me.

>

> So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works with

my

> PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I won't

> wait until I've lost control and started making bad choices in my

> eating. That would make my feelings even worse.

>

> Well, I just wanted to share this. I don't know if anyone else has

> experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the process

has

> been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation

> doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the

feelings

> I'm going through.

>

> Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What

would

> I do without this group?

>

> Gemello

> open rny 06/03/03

> reconstruction 05/25/04

> -138 lbs

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Martha:

You've brought a smile to my face in a day full of tears. I can't

tell you what that means to me. And now I've got tears in my eyes

and I'm actually laughing.

You're the best!

Gemello

P.S. Regarding the scars, he's told me that he's afraid he's gonna

hurt me. And yes, he's a sweet neanderthal. A really good person,

but not very sentimental, just practical. Me, well, I'm a typical

huggy, lovey, touchy, feely Latino. I get most of it from my Mom,

however, who is French Canadian (Dad is Puerto Rican). So I've got

that from both sides of the family.

> Gemello,

> *Sigh*... Honey, honey, honey...

> You are hooked up with one UNROMANTIC man. Also, like a lot of

> stereotypical guys, he doesn't appear to be very open with (or even

> aware of?) his feelings. I could be wrong, but... is he a sweet

> neanderthal?

>

> Is he bummed about your scars? Turned off? Scared to hurt you? What

IS

> the deal here? Or did he just snap at you because he's PMSing for

some

> reason of his own?

>

> Your idea to expand your friendships is very mature. Your approach

to

> is MEGA mature. I mean, for you two to sit down and

actually

> discuss what you will or won't do... well, how very Dr. Phil of you!

> I've known a number of guys in OPEN relationships who weren't that

> responsible!

>

> I think you're way way in your head here. I mean, it would have been

> nice if JC had said a little more about how simply irresistible you

are

> and how difficult it is to pass up this opportunity. But then if he

did

> that wouldn't it make your friendship a little more awkward? Yeah,

sure,

> maybe he has issues about your surgery, or wondering about the

emotional

> ramifications and wanting to wait and see... but I think you are

> overlooking the really good stuff, which is that this man thinks

you're

> hot enough to have to talk to you about why he can't get next to

you.

>

> Yum. Maybe someday down the line you and JC... Oh, no, I won't go

there.

>

> Anyway, it's much more comfortable to fret about being the fat kid

whom

> no one wants to be with, than to recognize the real possibility that

> you're taking off into realms of gorgeousness and you may not even

be

> aware of it. Walk next to ME and I'll tell you whether the boys we

pass

> are looking at you or not... And then you'll just have to deal with

it,

> Mister!

> Martha

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Barbie:

Thank you! I am constantly amazed by the collective wisdom of this

group. Your words have given me encouragement and comfort.

I'll get through this, and I'll be stronger for the effort. Zach and

I talked tonight and our exchange was positive.

He just passed by on his way to bed, and he patted me gently on my

back as he said good night. Right there is evidense that he's

listening and trying. I know he's just as scared as I am with all

this new stuff. I don't mean to paint him as a total jerk. He's

really a great person with baggage just like me.

Again, I say, I don't know what I would do without this group! I'd

be totally lost with my face in a bag of doritos.

Gemello

> I think any relationship is a challenge.....irregardless of

> weight....wls...straight...gay....age...sex...etc...etc...

>

> coming from someone 51 yrs old....and these are just my personal

> opinions...but i have lived alot of life...and discovered many

things...along the

> way...let me share....and if it helps...great..if not...im

sorry....maybe someone else

> will be able to help you gem...and u are a gem...i read many of

your posts

> cause you are so real...so honest...and so vulnerable....i have not

had wls

> yet....and have actually canceled it till further notice due to

almost dying

> earlier this yr...i know u have to be very healthy and im not at

the present

> time....so i have more postponed the whole process until im well

enough again....but

> i can relate to u gem....ive heard this before after weight loss

> surgery...your body has made a major change...and so have u

inside....u are not

> unique....:)

>

> one thing i have discovered in just .....living.....is that men are

very

> visual and logical....and women are very

emotional....again.....this observation

> is not in 100% of all.....just a generality....u sound to me

gem....as if u are

> both...which is unique in a man....and very special...im kinda

both....having

> raised my sons almost alone...i have had to be both logical...and

emotional

> ...and i have a very visual side...in any crisis situation...im

logical...and

> in the middle of the nite...my emotional side comes out....and i

kinda break

> down....only to recover the logical side the next day and

rationalize all of

> it....i can truly relate to your posts....:)

>

> i think.....and take my words for what they are worth....your mate

is very

> worried....when u were fat...supposedly unattractive....your mate

felt very

> secure...in all ways....that u would always be there....always be

his....no matter

> if he bought u flowers...or didnt....alot of men and women think

being fat no

> one will want them....and their mates play on that...my x hubby was

like

> that...and he reinforced that daily...what he did not realize is

that one day...i

> would regain my self confidence and no longer believe him...realize

that the

> true man or woman.......would see someone very special and

unique....and fat or

> thin had nothing to do with it...there are a few people who truly

see the

> beauty inside a person...the outside fades as u age anyway...unless

u stay under

> a knife throughout the aging process...and try running from it....

>

> my nutrionist and i talked alot about this very thing while going

thru the

> process of wls...he said if someone has emotional baggage...wls is

not going to

> be a fix all....they lose...but have to face the emotional part of

it all one

> day...and deal with that...before they obtain true happiness...wls

is only one

> tool....and just that...:)

>

> as is very normal in a relationship...any time anyone changes...and

> grows...it is very threatening to the mate...they are no

longer " the same " ....they are

> no longer content with the way things " were " ...and the mate must

now grow to

> be with them...or leave...sometimes its easier to just leave....but

if they

> truly love u..they will make the effort to grow with you...and love

your

> changes...it is a true test of any relationship....and yours is

being tested hon...in

> all ways...:)

>

> you are now holding your head higher...you are walking more

confident....you

> are wanting more as you know it is out there...with your mate...or

without

> him...you are slowly realizing you are not that little boy you

were.....the one

> chosen last....the one made fun of...and you are rejoicing in your

> accomplishments...in both dealing with food and fat....and it is a

mind altering

> experience...so yes hon.....u are changing and growing....and it is

scarey to your

> mate...he is seeing a " YOU " he has probably never experienced

before....and he is

> being put in a position where he may have to make the effort to

either rejoice

> with you.....and show pride in all u are becoming...or leave....

>

> as far as juan carlos....that may or may not have been just

lust...lust and

> love are so close...and lust is everywhere hon....as is

temptation...it is up

> to u to decide if you want to pursue it....or walk away from

it...we all go

> through that...couples that truly love each other walk away from

lust...they know

> love is far too special to bend to the lust that confronts them

daily...its

> just not " worth it " for five minutes of lust.....to jeopardize the

love they

> cherish...in my opinion...lust is a choice...love is an intense

emotional

> feeling...and not a choice...it is just ......... " there " ......kind

of like.....when

> u walk into a room of people....u may see people who u are visually

attracted

> to...u choose to walk up to them....and choose to seek them out for

an

> encounter...lust...but then u meet someone that may or may not be

the " perfect " one

> visually...but as get to know them......you see qualities in them

that u

> respect...admire...that seperates them from others u have

met....and u grow to love

> all that they are...not just what they represent visually......and

you do not

> choose to love them.....u just do...you feel lost when they are not

> close...you think of them at odd moments...you feel lonely when u

are with others but

> not them....very big difference...:)

>

> hon...u are a very special remarkable man...and you are making very

> remarkable steps in your visual makeup as well as your emotional

makeup...your love is

> being tested....your relationship is being tested...just be content

knowing

> whatever happens in your life...it is all going to be

alright....you will be

> alright...and if it isnt zach...it will be someone else...right

now...just keep

> yourself focused....zach is going to have to deal with his own

problems...and

> if he truly loves you...he will seek the help he needs to deal with

all of the

> changes in your relationship...if not..be glad u are growing...and

u will find

> a unique joy in your next relationship...u will be that much

> older......wiser....and have learned alot...from your last one...

>

> i dont let anyone make me sad.....life is very short no matter how

long we

> live...and that one day of unhappiness can never be recovered...i

choose to wake

> up each morning and thank god for another day...and i refuse to let

anyone

> bring me down for any reason....i choose to spend each day being

the best i can

> be....life is a true gift hon....and the gift i can leave behind in

all that

> have known me....is that " she really loved life....she gave to

others...she was

> warm and loving...and all around her felt happiness around her.... "

>

> without the " downs " in life......we wouldnt see all the " ups " and

truly

> appreciate them...or grow......or learn....

>

> one more thing...it is as i told my sons as they grew up.....even

perfect

> people are bagged on....chosen last sometimes....etc...sometimes

for being " too

> perfect " ...if someone is looking for something to make u feel " less

> than " ...they will find it...why do u think so many " perfect " people

are unhappy...if its

> not your weight...its your nose.....if not your nose...its your

feet....if not

> your feet.....its your height...if not.....etc....etc..etc...most

who bag on

> others.....are very unhappy people inside...and want others to be

just as

> miserable around them...very insecure....very jealous for whatever

reason....and

> think they look better making fun of others....but most can see

thru it

> all..and feel very sorry for them...what u think of yourself is all

that

> matters...and should matter....that u can look in the mirror and

smile...and be proud of

> all u are...:)

>

> by the way.....i raised two incredible men....very self

confident......very

> sucessful in their relationships and professionally....and all ask

me......how

> did u do it....alone....trust me hon...love...mutual

> respect...communication...honesty....that was it...:) very easy...

>

> i didnt mean to make this a book...but my heart went out to you

cause u

> seemed so sad......so confused....and that is so not u....i pray u

regain your self

> confident nature...and go on hon.....zach will have to face his own

> demons....his own insecurities.......and deal with it...just as u

have.... u know?

> just try to love him thru it....and understand what he is going

thru.....as far

> as his attitude in flowers....yeah...they die...but so do we...so

are we also a

> waste of money and emotions?

>

> with flowers.....its just the thought.......even a single

rose...its not the

> actual flower.....:)

>

> nite sweetie...bless u..

>

> barbie

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Posted

Gordy:

Thanks for your support. I agree with you: There is a great deal of

fear at work here--both mine and Zach's. All this is new territory

for us both. He's never seen me this thin. I know that he's working

so hard to make a better life for the both of us. And I don't want

to seem unappreciative.

We talked tonight and we're both willing to try to improve. But I

still am going to seek out a psychologists help. He's given me so

much space and freedom to test my wings. I want to give him the

benefit of the doubt and work toward a better future.

Thanks for being there and offering kind words. It means the world

to me. I'll be sure the keep you all updated.

Gemello

> Hi Gemello....

>

> Man a lot of things come to mind as I read your post. First let me

> say thank you. Thank you for be so open and honest about your

> feelings in all of this " trial " . I want to say a lot but I think

the

> best thing I can say at this time is that thoughts are just

> that....thoughts. It's OK to have thoughts it's how you act on

those

> thoughts that's important. Remember, you haven't done anything

> wrong ! When I have discussions with people about relationship

> difficulties I suggest that they explore their motives and I think

> that you are doing just that by seeking out answers from us as

well

> as the professionsals. I read Barbie and Martha's responses to you

> and I agree....maybe your significant other is afraid. Afraid of

the

> new you and he just can't bear the thought of being without you but

> does not know how to express that to you. I think I would print

out

> your post and share it with him which would certainly stimulate

> dialogue and hopefully get you some of the satisfaction you seek.

> Hang in there bud and please keep us updated.

> Regards,

> Gordy

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Posted

Hi Gemello

Im one of those lurkers who havent posted before, but your post

really touched my heart.

I am 18 months post op and am dealing with this very same issue. I

have been married for 20 years to a great guy but one who sounds alot

like Zach. Recently, I too met some one who is testing my resolve to

stay in my marriage.He tells me things I long to hear. He talks with

me not at me. He makes me feel exciting and desirable, not a chore or

a comfortable pair of old slippers. Thank you for having the courage

to post what you are going through.It helps those of us that are too

chicken. I read all the responses to this post as well and hope to

figure out my head before things happen I can't change or handle.

Bunny

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Posted

Hi Gemello

Im one of those lurkers who havent posted before, but your post

really touched my heart.

I am 18 months post op and am dealing with this very same issue. I

have been married for 20 years to a great guy but one who sounds alot

like Zach. Recently, I too met some one who is testing my resolve to

stay in my marriage.He tells me things I long to hear. He talks with

me not at me. He makes me feel exciting and desirable, not a chore or

a comfortable pair of old slippers. Thank you for having the courage

to post what you are going through.It helps those of us that are too

chicken. I read all the responses to this post as well and hope to

figure out my head before things happen I can't change or handle.

Bunny

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Gemello,

Thank you so much for your post. Your ability to speak your truth so

honesty and from your heart is a blessing to this group. I am sorry

you're having all these feelings coming up. This is such real stuff!

This is the stuff we " eat " over this is the head stuff for me that

will do me in every time. This is living life on life's terms and

sometimes it just sucks.

By posting about this topic I hear you saying hey I don't want to

act out with food! I'm so proud of you!! You have come so far and

you seem to always do the right thing to protect your self from

sliding back.

The surgery will never teach us how to handle the day to day issues

that we all must live with. The surgery *will* make our bodies

physically better and make our health soar but it is up to us, each

one of us to help our self deal with day to day life stress without

turning to food (my mo)

I may not be going though what you are but I can relate never the

less to relationship stuff. Relationships are about endurance,

patients, getting though these hard times together when we think we

can't, asking for what we need, and also knowing when its time to

move on, if thats what we need to do to take care of our selfs. Love

is not always the answer. As painful as it has been for me I have

had to leave relationships when I knew in my soul no matter what I

did things would not work out. I truly believe that if something is

meant to be there's no way you can mess it up but on that same note

if its not meant to be there's nothing you can do to keep it

together.

I will share with you my personal issues on this topic. I look at my

body now and get into fear. Sex for me is a scary thing. It always

has been due to my past childhood issues. I come from a background

of horrific child abuse. It has taken me years of therapy to get

over these issues and I believe they will always be a part of who I

am.

When I was single and dating I could meet men and have lovers and

have the best sex ever, no intimacy nothing to lose. It has always

been for me, once im in a relationship and things get intimate that

I get scared. Being almost 400 pounds was also a way to keep myself

safe from men. I felt more in control when I was a big girl.

Being in a smaller body makes me more afraid more vulnerable more

open to being hurt. For being a partner of a survivor is not

always an easy thing. There are times I don't want to be touched

nor do I want to touch him. There are times he will reach out to me

and I freeze. It's hard for him to not take it personally, to not

feel rejected. We have done allot of talking about this. We talked

about this in our pre-marital therapy. We are aware of this and at

times it can be an issue for us and worse we never no what's going

to trigger me. I can be on the same page as him and we are really in

tune then boom I've left my body. Just like that, it's scary. I can

say it happens less then it used to but its still there. This was

such a great topic to bring up Gemello I no my issues and yours are

a bit different but its still relationship stuff that will send us

straight to the fridge if we let it. If we don't learn to deal with

it.

Shell

> Hello everyone:

>

> (Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open

> discussion of relationship/sexual issues)

>

> Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to

> share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately,

this

> one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not

only

> help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the

> relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.

>

> Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most

> painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this weight

> loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so for

our

> spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us

many

> times that losing weight does not solve all problems and make our

> lives perfect and easy.

>

> Recently, I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace the

> ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that once

I

> lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be

> uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.

>

> I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently

met

> someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no

> physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and

there

> are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be

> different about our partners, but we both love our partners

dearly.

> We met last night and discussed our lives and where our

relationships

> were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends and

not

> take our attraction to another level.

>

> I think this is the best outcome. But on the way home, my old

demon,

> Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from

him

> in a long time (about a year and a half). was the one

> who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was relieved

to

> have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best.

However,

> there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school

dance

> that no one wants to dance with or worse… the loser who gets

picked

> last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the loser

no

> one wanted on his/her team.

>

> On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself, reassure

> myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had the

> presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like

crap,

> though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel

these

> feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before,

this

> type of episode would have put me head-deep into the refrigerator

and

> the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated

with

> high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.

>

> But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something is

> wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know,

I've

> been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual

> relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric

bypass,

> it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the

> reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars.

>

> The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put

their

> arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm

afraid

> or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch on

the

> small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift

because

> it's a Tuesday afternoon and they were thinking of me. I used to

do

> that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not

demonstrative

> at all; it's not in his nature. In fact he's just like my Dad:

> dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding

person.

>

> I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself

on

> our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers are

a

> waste of money because they die. I know we can't have everything

in

> life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you feel

> loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it

out

> on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I do

> get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make

fun

> of me.

>

> So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works with

my

> PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I won't

> wait until I've lost control and started making bad choices in my

> eating. That would make my feelings even worse.

>

> Well, I just wanted to share this. I don't know if anyone else

has

> experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the process

has

> been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation

> doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the

feelings

> I'm going through.

>

> Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What

would

> I do without this group?

>

> Gemello

> open rny 06/03/03

> reconstruction 05/25/04

> -138 lbs

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Gemello,

Thank you so much for your post. Your ability to speak your truth so

honesty and from your heart is a blessing to this group. I am sorry

you're having all these feelings coming up. This is such real stuff!

This is the stuff we " eat " over this is the head stuff for me that

will do me in every time. This is living life on life's terms and

sometimes it just sucks.

By posting about this topic I hear you saying hey I don't want to

act out with food! I'm so proud of you!! You have come so far and

you seem to always do the right thing to protect your self from

sliding back.

The surgery will never teach us how to handle the day to day issues

that we all must live with. The surgery *will* make our bodies

physically better and make our health soar but it is up to us, each

one of us to help our self deal with day to day life stress without

turning to food (my mo)

I may not be going though what you are but I can relate never the

less to relationship stuff. Relationships are about endurance,

patients, getting though these hard times together when we think we

can't, asking for what we need, and also knowing when its time to

move on, if thats what we need to do to take care of our selfs. Love

is not always the answer. As painful as it has been for me I have

had to leave relationships when I knew in my soul no matter what I

did things would not work out. I truly believe that if something is

meant to be there's no way you can mess it up but on that same note

if its not meant to be there's nothing you can do to keep it

together.

I will share with you my personal issues on this topic. I look at my

body now and get into fear. Sex for me is a scary thing. It always

has been due to my past childhood issues. I come from a background

of horrific child abuse. It has taken me years of therapy to get

over these issues and I believe they will always be a part of who I

am.

When I was single and dating I could meet men and have lovers and

have the best sex ever, no intimacy nothing to lose. It has always

been for me, once im in a relationship and things get intimate that

I get scared. Being almost 400 pounds was also a way to keep myself

safe from men. I felt more in control when I was a big girl.

Being in a smaller body makes me more afraid more vulnerable more

open to being hurt. For being a partner of a survivor is not

always an easy thing. There are times I don't want to be touched

nor do I want to touch him. There are times he will reach out to me

and I freeze. It's hard for him to not take it personally, to not

feel rejected. We have done allot of talking about this. We talked

about this in our pre-marital therapy. We are aware of this and at

times it can be an issue for us and worse we never no what's going

to trigger me. I can be on the same page as him and we are really in

tune then boom I've left my body. Just like that, it's scary. I can

say it happens less then it used to but its still there. This was

such a great topic to bring up Gemello I no my issues and yours are

a bit different but its still relationship stuff that will send us

straight to the fridge if we let it. If we don't learn to deal with

it.

Shell

> Hello everyone:

>

> (Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open

> discussion of relationship/sexual issues)

>

> Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to

> share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately,

this

> one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not

only

> help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the

> relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.

>

> Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most

> painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this weight

> loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so for

our

> spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us

many

> times that losing weight does not solve all problems and make our

> lives perfect and easy.

>

> Recently, I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace the

> ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that once

I

> lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be

> uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.

>

> I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently

met

> someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no

> physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and

there

> are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be

> different about our partners, but we both love our partners

dearly.

> We met last night and discussed our lives and where our

relationships

> were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends and

not

> take our attraction to another level.

>

> I think this is the best outcome. But on the way home, my old

demon,

> Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from

him

> in a long time (about a year and a half). was the one

> who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was relieved

to

> have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best.

However,

> there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school

dance

> that no one wants to dance with or worse… the loser who gets

picked

> last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the loser

no

> one wanted on his/her team.

>

> On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself, reassure

> myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had the

> presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like

crap,

> though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel

these

> feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before,

this

> type of episode would have put me head-deep into the refrigerator

and

> the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated

with

> high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.

>

> But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something is

> wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know,

I've

> been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual

> relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric

bypass,

> it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the

> reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars.

>

> The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put

their

> arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm

afraid

> or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch on

the

> small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift

because

> it's a Tuesday afternoon and they were thinking of me. I used to

do

> that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not

demonstrative

> at all; it's not in his nature. In fact he's just like my Dad:

> dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding

person.

>

> I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself

on

> our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers are

a

> waste of money because they die. I know we can't have everything

in

> life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you feel

> loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it

out

> on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I do

> get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make

fun

> of me.

>

> So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works with

my

> PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I won't

> wait until I've lost control and started making bad choices in my

> eating. That would make my feelings even worse.

>

> Well, I just wanted to share this. I don't know if anyone else

has

> experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the process

has

> been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation

> doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the

feelings

> I'm going through.

>

> Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What

would

> I do without this group?

>

> Gemello

> open rny 06/03/03

> reconstruction 05/25/04

> -138 lbs

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Camello,

I just wanted to say thank you for sharing how you feel and what you are going through... I'm still pre-op... but my relationship is also going through a rough time and I personally don't know if we will make it... He love's big women and says that he loves me.. but I don't want to be that person any more I need to be healthy... I am really struggling with not running to my comfort foods.. and it is great to hear some one else say how hard it is but they ARE doing itand not going to food.. .. I just want you to know that we love you... and this group is great.... All the best...

Love and hugs

Leann

Still pre-op... working on the 10% Gemello DiGiovanni wrote:

Hello everyone:(Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open discussion of relationship/sexual issues)Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately, this one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not only help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this weight loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so for our spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us many times that losing weight does not solve all problems and make our lives perfect and easy.Recently,

I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace the ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that once I lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently met someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and there are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be different about our partners, but we both love our partners dearly. We met last night and discussed our lives and where our relationships were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends and not take our attraction to another level.I think this is the best outcome. But on the way home, my old demon, Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from him in a long

time (about a year and a half). was the one who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was relieved to have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best. However, there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school dance that no one wants to dance with or worse… the loser who gets picked last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the loser no one wanted on his/her team.On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself, reassure myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had the presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like crap, though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel these feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before, this type of episode would have put me head-deep into the refrigerator and the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated with

high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something is wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know, I've been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric bypass, it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars. The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put their arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm afraid or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch on the small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift because it's a Tuesday afternoon and they were thinking of me. I used to do that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not demonstrative at all; it's not in his

nature. In fact he's just like my Dad: dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding person.I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself on our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers are a waste of money because they die. I know we can't have everything in life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you feel loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it out on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I do get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make fun of me.So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works with my PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I won't wait until I've lost control and started making bad choices in my eating. That would make my feelings even worse.Well, I just wanted to share this. I

don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the process has been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the feelings I'm going through.Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What would I do without this group?Gemelloopen rny 06/03/03reconstruction 05/25/04-138 lbs

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Posted

Camello,

I just wanted to say thank you for sharing how you feel and what you are going through... I'm still pre-op... but my relationship is also going through a rough time and I personally don't know if we will make it... He love's big women and says that he loves me.. but I don't want to be that person any more I need to be healthy... I am really struggling with not running to my comfort foods.. and it is great to hear some one else say how hard it is but they ARE doing itand not going to food.. .. I just want you to know that we love you... and this group is great.... All the best...

Love and hugs

Leann

Still pre-op... working on the 10% Gemello DiGiovanni wrote:

Hello everyone:(Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open discussion of relationship/sexual issues)Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately, this one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not only help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this weight loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so for our spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us many times that losing weight does not solve all problems and make our lives perfect and easy.Recently,

I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace the ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that once I lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently met someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and there are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be different about our partners, but we both love our partners dearly. We met last night and discussed our lives and where our relationships were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends and not take our attraction to another level.I think this is the best outcome. But on the way home, my old demon, Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from him in a long

time (about a year and a half). was the one who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was relieved to have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best. However, there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school dance that no one wants to dance with or worse… the loser who gets picked last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the loser no one wanted on his/her team.On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself, reassure myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had the presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like crap, though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel these feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before, this type of episode would have put me head-deep into the refrigerator and the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated with

high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something is wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know, I've been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric bypass, it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars. The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put their arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm afraid or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch on the small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift because it's a Tuesday afternoon and they were thinking of me. I used to do that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not demonstrative at all; it's not in his

nature. In fact he's just like my Dad: dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding person.I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself on our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers are a waste of money because they die. I know we can't have everything in life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you feel loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it out on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I do get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make fun of me.So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works with my PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I won't wait until I've lost control and started making bad choices in my eating. That would make my feelings even worse.Well, I just wanted to share this. I

don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the process has been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the feelings I'm going through.Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What would I do without this group?Gemelloopen rny 06/03/03reconstruction 05/25/04-138 lbs

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Posted
Posted

Shell:

Thank you for sharing your experience and WISDOM! Regardless of how

relationships affect us, the important point for us is to learn and

refine and practice coping skills so we don't use food as a way to

deal with pain or challenges.

I can totally relate to your issues regarding intimacy and sex, and

I'm sure that there are others here who do too. Different details,

but same feelings.

I'm a believer in therapy, and I've made an appointment to talk about

my feelings. However, I'm already feeling better knowing that I'm

not alone in this.

Gemello

> > Hello everyone:

> >

> > (Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open

> > discussion of relationship/sexual issues)

> >

> > Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to

> > share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately,

> this

> > one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not

> only

> > help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the

> > relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.

> >

> > Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most

> > painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this weight

> > loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so for

> our

> > spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us

> many

> > times that losing weight does not solve all problems and make our

> > lives perfect and easy.

> >

> > Recently, I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace the

> > ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that

once

> I

> > lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be

> > uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.

> >

> > I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently

> met

> > someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no

> > physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and

> there

> > are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be

> > different about our partners, but we both love our partners

> dearly.

> > We met last night and discussed our lives and where our

> relationships

> > were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends and

> not

> > take our attraction to another level.

> >

> > I think this is the best outcome. But on the way home, my old

> demon,

> > Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from

> him

> > in a long time (about a year and a half). was the

one

> > who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was relieved

> to

> > have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best.

> However,

> > there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school

> dance

> > that no one wants to dance with or worse… the loser who gets

> picked

> > last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the loser

> no

> > one wanted on his/her team.

> >

> > On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself, reassure

> > myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had

the

> > presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like

> crap,

> > though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel

> these

> > feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before,

> this

> > type of episode would have put me head-deep into the refrigerator

> and

> > the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated

> with

> > high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.

> >

> > But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something

is

> > wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know,

> I've

> > been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual

> > relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric

> bypass,

> > it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the

> > reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars.

> >

> > The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put

> their

> > arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm

> afraid

> > or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch on

> the

> > small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift

> because

> > it's a Tuesday afternoon and they were thinking of me. I used to

> do

> > that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not

> demonstrative

> > at all; it's not in his nature. In fact he's just like my Dad:

> > dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding

> person.

> >

> > I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself

> on

> > our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers

are

> a

> > waste of money because they die. I know we can't have everything

> in

> > life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you

feel

> > loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it

> out

> > on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I

do

> > get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make

> fun

> > of me.

> >

> > So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works

with

> my

> > PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I

won't

> > wait until I've lost control and started making bad choices in my

> > eating. That would make my feelings even worse.

> >

> > Well, I just wanted to share this. I don't know if anyone else

> has

> > experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the process

> has

> > been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation

> > doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the

> feelings

> > I'm going through.

> >

> > Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What

> would

> > I do without this group?

> >

> > Gemello

> > open rny 06/03/03

> > reconstruction 05/25/04

> > -138 lbs

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Posted
Posted

Shell:

Thank you for sharing your experience and WISDOM! Regardless of how

relationships affect us, the important point for us is to learn and

refine and practice coping skills so we don't use food as a way to

deal with pain or challenges.

I can totally relate to your issues regarding intimacy and sex, and

I'm sure that there are others here who do too. Different details,

but same feelings.

I'm a believer in therapy, and I've made an appointment to talk about

my feelings. However, I'm already feeling better knowing that I'm

not alone in this.

Gemello

> > Hello everyone:

> >

> > (Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open

> > discussion of relationship/sexual issues)

> >

> > Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to

> > share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately,

> this

> > one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not

> only

> > help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the

> > relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.

> >

> > Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most

> > painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this weight

> > loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so for

> our

> > spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us

> many

> > times that losing weight does not solve all problems and make our

> > lives perfect and easy.

> >

> > Recently, I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace the

> > ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that

once

> I

> > lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be

> > uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.

> >

> > I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently

> met

> > someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no

> > physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and

> there

> > are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be

> > different about our partners, but we both love our partners

> dearly.

> > We met last night and discussed our lives and where our

> relationships

> > were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends and

> not

> > take our attraction to another level.

> >

> > I think this is the best outcome. But on the way home, my old

> demon,

> > Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from

> him

> > in a long time (about a year and a half). was the

one

> > who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was relieved

> to

> > have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best.

> However,

> > there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school

> dance

> > that no one wants to dance with or worse… the loser who gets

> picked

> > last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the loser

> no

> > one wanted on his/her team.

> >

> > On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself, reassure

> > myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had

the

> > presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like

> crap,

> > though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel

> these

> > feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before,

> this

> > type of episode would have put me head-deep into the refrigerator

> and

> > the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated

> with

> > high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.

> >

> > But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something

is

> > wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know,

> I've

> > been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual

> > relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric

> bypass,

> > it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the

> > reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars.

> >

> > The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put

> their

> > arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm

> afraid

> > or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch on

> the

> > small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift

> because

> > it's a Tuesday afternoon and they were thinking of me. I used to

> do

> > that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not

> demonstrative

> > at all; it's not in his nature. In fact he's just like my Dad:

> > dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding

> person.

> >

> > I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself

> on

> > our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers

are

> a

> > waste of money because they die. I know we can't have everything

> in

> > life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you

feel

> > loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it

> out

> > on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I

do

> > get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make

> fun

> > of me.

> >

> > So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works

with

> my

> > PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I

won't

> > wait until I've lost control and started making bad choices in my

> > eating. That would make my feelings even worse.

> >

> > Well, I just wanted to share this. I don't know if anyone else

> has

> > experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the process

> has

> > been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation

> > doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the

> feelings

> > I'm going through.

> >

> > Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What

> would

> > I do without this group?

> >

> > Gemello

> > open rny 06/03/03

> > reconstruction 05/25/04

> > -138 lbs

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Posted
Posted

Bunny:

Thanks for letting me know that I'm not alone. I wish you the best

of luck. I know how fragile our hearts are. Remember, you've always

got support here.

Gemello

> Hi Gemello

>

> Im one of those lurkers who havent posted before, but your post

> really touched my heart.

>

> I am 18 months post op and am dealing with this very same issue. I

> have been married for 20 years to a great guy but one who sounds

alot

> like Zach. Recently, I too met some one who is testing my resolve

to

> stay in my marriage.He tells me things I long to hear. He talks

with

> me not at me. He makes me feel exciting and desirable, not a chore

or

> a comfortable pair of old slippers. Thank you for having the

courage

> to post what you are going through.It helps those of us that are

too

> chicken. I read all the responses to this post as well and hope to

> figure out my head before things happen I can't change or handle.

>

> Bunny

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Posted
Posted

Bunny:

Thanks for letting me know that I'm not alone. I wish you the best

of luck. I know how fragile our hearts are. Remember, you've always

got support here.

Gemello

> Hi Gemello

>

> Im one of those lurkers who havent posted before, but your post

> really touched my heart.

>

> I am 18 months post op and am dealing with this very same issue. I

> have been married for 20 years to a great guy but one who sounds

alot

> like Zach. Recently, I too met some one who is testing my resolve

to

> stay in my marriage.He tells me things I long to hear. He talks

with

> me not at me. He makes me feel exciting and desirable, not a chore

or

> a comfortable pair of old slippers. Thank you for having the

courage

> to post what you are going through.It helps those of us that are

too

> chicken. I read all the responses to this post as well and hope to

> figure out my head before things happen I can't change or handle.

>

> Bunny

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gem.....

i was happy to help hon......and i think u have found your spirit again.....and it sounds like u and zach had a great talk....that is one of the greatest things any couple can do...not let things stay in and smolder......rather.....get it out in the open and confront it....and decide what to do...i once heard......"if u find the why the how will come"....and it is sooooooo true...why.......because it sounds like u and zach are in love....how will u get through all of this change....this challenge...u just will.......:)

how sweet he patted u on the back....that is the emotion that most of us need...a pat....a smile...a warm loving kiss...a reassuring glance...we dont ask for alot.......its the little things that truly mean the most....its also the little things that make us smile when we are alone...or busy at work...my 20 yr old son kissed my forehead as i slept the other nite...it woke me up...and he said...."mom...i just wanted to let u know how much i love u."..after he left....i cried....i pray he always stays so loving...i have been soooooo blessed......and so have u hon....to have someone willing to talk....to get things out into the open...to love each other through all u are both going through...it is truly a test of both of your love and devotion....and u will both be fine...:)

i never for one minute thought he was a bad guy....i just knew he was going through alot too...imagine if suddenly he made a major change....went from being say....dependent...maybe on drugs...or alcohol....and he went to rehab......came out clean.......a new man...with goals....and got a new job....and became independent....trust me...u would also be confused...uncertain....wondering where u stood now in his life....in his heart....u would be wondering if he were gonna leave u now....be with others now that he appears more confident....u may pull away....to save yourself from hurt...and the thought that he may leave....these are very normal feelings when your mate makes a major change....and the greatest gift u can give each other is to stand back...put yourself in the other persons shoes....and try to feel what they are feeling....and understand....love....talk.....with love and patience...there is nothing either of u can not get through...

you know hon.....everyone has scars......whether visible.....or invisible...whether on our body.....or in our heart....and love is truly blind...each one of my scars.....the visible and invisible......is like a badge of courage....another battle won...another story to be told....and each scar makes us unique..reminds us that we are survivors.....scars fade hon....and yours will too....:)

you are truly my inspiration.....you are climbing a mountain...and are almost at the top....but u are wise enough to realize that being at the top alone is a very lonely thought....it will be so much greater to pull others up with you and celebrate together...each one of your posts are like that...very inspiring....full of information...full of thought...full of love...and what a happy man u will be pulling others up there with you...

thank u gem...for being all u are...:)

barbie

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Hi Gemello,

I am always touched by your openness and trust - you speak so clearly and

with such candor.

Mr. Negative Self Talk may rear his ugly head from time to time, but you

have gained such strength in these past months that I am sure that you will

be able to put him in his place. I admire your wisdom and part of that wisdom

is knowing when to look to others for counsel. I feel confident that the

behavioral specialist will able to help you sort out a lot of the feelings

you are having to deal with at the moment - feelings that we can no longer

buffer with food.

Your Zach sounds in some ways like my husband, Bob. He is a very sweet,

hard-working, dependable guy - he has always been supportive of me, even

when I was at my worst with depression and increasing mobility problems.

I love him with a tenderness that I've never felt for anyone else. Nonetheless,

there are times when our relationship feels terribly incomplete. We often

don't seem to be able to demonstrate our feelings in ways that connect with

the other's needs. I say "we" because I know that I am an equal partner

in this.

I am finding this message very hard to write. I am typing now through tears.

I love my husband so much that I feel wretched about the other feelings

I've been having. Bob has his own mental-health issues stemming from an

abusive childhood - he given to horrible verbal outbursts. These outbursts

are always directed at himself - never at me - yet they still feel like an

assault. I have been seeing my therapist much more frequently in the last

several months - in part because I am finding it harder and harder to cope

with this situation. I know that it is not something of his choosing - but

instead of persisting in seeking help, he will go to a therapist only to

quit after a visit or two. My shrink says that I am having a harder time

now because I no longer have the comfort foods to take the edge off of the

fears that this behaviour brings up for me. When I was a kid, my parents

would have the same sort of verbal slinging matches, often ending with threats

of my father leaving. It always felt like my world was going to end. When

Bob explodes, it feels the same way. He doesn't threaten to leave - but

I so fear that he will have a heart attack or stroke . Wow! This message

has really kinda gone where I wasn't expecting - I suppose I could just delete

it, but I'm thinking that I will follow Gemello's example of candor and trust.

What I had sort of planned to talk about was the temptations that are surfacing.

I'm only 8 months post-op and a long way from being "normal" in appearance

- yet, these issues are already arising for me. As most of you know by now,

I've been working at the Renaissance Faire for the last few weeks. If ever

there was a place for me to find temptation - that's it. Compliments, comforting

touches, outright flirtations from old friends and new acquaintances - these

have been a major part of this faire for me. Nothing has been inappropriate

within its context - but I find a part of myself that I had thought long

dead reawakening. I was a bawdy, flirtatious wench once upon a time - so

much so that I had to think long and hard before making a commitment to Bob.

Nothing that has happened has shaken that commitment - but I am do really

like the attention that I am getting and would love to get more of that sort

of attention from my husband.

So . . . I continue to see my shrink. I continue to learn to live without

the buffer of comfort foods. And, oh, so importantly, I continue to turn

to you folks for support, insight and understanding.

I know that this has been a very long posting. Sorry about that . . . thanks

for reading this far.

All the best,

Kay

Gemello DiGiovanni wrote:

Hello everyone:

(Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open

discussion of relationship/sexual issues)

Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to

share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately, this

one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not only

help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the

relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.

Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most

painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this weight

loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so for our

spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us many

times that losing weight does not solve all problems and make our

lives perfect and easy.

Recently, I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace the

ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that once I

lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be

uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.

I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently met

someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no

physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and there

are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be

different about our partners, but we both love our partners dearly.

We met last night and discussed our lives and where our relationships

were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends and not

take our attraction to another level.

I think this is the best outcome. But on the way home, my old demon,

Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from him

in a long time (about a year and a half). was the one

who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was relieved to

have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best. However,

there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school dance

that no one wants to dance with or worse… the loser who gets picked

last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the loser no

one wanted on his/her team.

On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself, reassure

myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had the

presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like crap,

though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel these

feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before, this

type of episode would have put me head-deep into the refrigerator and

the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated with

high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.

But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something is

wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know, I've

been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual

relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric bypass,

it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the

reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars.

The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put their

arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm afraid

or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch on the

small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift because

it's a Tuesday afternoon and they were thinking of me. I used to do

that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not demonstrative

at all; it's not in his nature. In fact he's just like my Dad:

dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding person.

I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself on

our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers are a

waste of money because they die. I know we can't have everything in

life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you feel

loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it out

on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I do

get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make fun

of me.

So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works with my

PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I won't

wait until I've lost control and started making bad choices in my

eating. That would make my feelings even worse.

Well, I just wanted to share this. I don't know if anyone else has

experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the process has

been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation

doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the feelings

I'm going through.

Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What would

I do without this group?

Gemello

open rny 06/03/03

reconstruction 05/25/04

-138 lbs

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Hi Barbie,

I just to thank you for your response to Gemello's posting.

Especially spoke of change and growth in a relationship. That is so like

what my therapist has been saying. One the things that is making it hard

on my relationship with my husband right now is simply that I have been going

through so many changes and such growth that I am finding it hard to cope

with his static situation. But I do love him and it may be part of my growth

to find a way to help him pursue his own healing.

You are so right about love and lust. Lust is a strong temptation and it

is a really heady experience for someone who has been morbidly obese to become

a object of someone's lustful attention - but, it is nowhere as wonderful

as loving and being loved.

All the best,

Kay

in San Leandro

open RNY 12/1/03

as is very normal in a relationship...any time anyone changes...and grows...it is very threatening to the mate...they are no longer "the same"....they are no longer content with the way things "were"...and the mate must now grow to be with them...or leave...sometimes its easier to just leave....but if they truly love u..they will make the effort to grow with you...and love your

changes...it is a true test of any relationship....and yours is being tested

hon...in all ways...:)

abadltlgirl4fun@... wrote:

. . .

as is very normal in a relationship...any time anyone changes...and grows...it

is very threatening to the mate...they are no longer "the same"....they are

no longer content with the way things "were"...and the mate must now grow

to be with them...or leave...sometimes its easier to just leave....but if

they truly love u..they will make the effort to grow with you...and love

your changes...it is a true test of any relationship....and yours is being

tested hon...in all ways...:)

you are now holding your head higher...you are walking more confident....you

are wanting more as you know it is out there...with your mate...or without

him...you are slowly realizing you are not that little boy you were.....the

one chosen last....the one made fun of...and you are rejoicing in your accomplishments...in

both dealing with food and fat....and it is a mind altering experience...so

yes hon.....u are changing and growing....and it is scarey to your mate...he

is seeing a "YOU" he has probably never experienced before....and he is being

put in a position where he may have to make the effort to either rejoice

with you.....and show pride in all u are becoming...or leave....

as far as juan carlos....that may or may not have been just lust...lust

and love are so close...and lust is everywhere hon....as is temptation...it

is up to u to decide if you want to pursue it....or walk away from it...we

all go through that...couples that truly love each other walk away from lust...they

know love is far too special to bend to the lust that confronts them daily...its

just not "worth it" for five minutes of lust.....to jeopardize the love they

cherish...in my opinion...lust is a choice...love is an intense emotional

feeling...and not a choice...it is just ........."there"......kind of like.....when

u walk into a room of people....u may see people who u are visually attracted

to...u choose to walk up to them....and choose to seek them out for an encounter...lust...but

then u meet someone that may or may not be the "perfect" one visually...but

as get to know them......you see qualities in them that u respect...admire...that

seperates them from others u have met....and u grow to love all that they

are...not just what they represent visually......and you do not choose to

love them.....u just do...you feel lost when they are not close...you think

of them at odd moments...you feel lonely when u are with others but not them....very

big difference...:)

hon...u are a very special remarkable man...and you are making very remarkable

steps in your visual makeup as well as your emotional makeup...your love

is being tested....your relationship is being tested...just be content knowing

whatever happens in your life...it is all going to be alright....you will

be alright...and if it isnt zach...it will be someone else...right now...just

keep yourself focused....zach is going to have to deal with his own problems...and

if he truly loves you...he will seek the help he needs to deal with all of

the changes in your relationship...if not..be glad u are growing...and u

will find a unique joy in your next relationship...u will be that much older......wiser....and

have learned alot...from your last one...

i dont let anyone make me sad.....life is very short no matter how long

we live...and that one day of unhappiness can never be recovered...i choose

to wake up each morning and thank god for another day...and i refuse to let

anyone bring me down for any reason....i choose to spend each day being the

best i can be....life is a true gift hon....and the gift i can leave behind

in all that have known me....is that "she really loved life....she gave to

others...she was warm and loving...and all around her felt happiness around

her...."

without the "downs" in life......we wouldnt see all the "ups" and truly

appreciate them...or grow......or learn....

.. . .

i didnt mean to make this a book...but my heart went out to you cause u

seemed so sad......so confused....and that is so not u....i pray u regain

your self confident nature...and go on hon.....zach will have to face his

own demons....his own insecurities.......and deal with it...just as u have....

u know? just try to love him thru it....and understand what he is going

thru.....as far as his attitude in flowers....yeah...they die...but so do

we...so are we also a waste of money and emotions?

with flowers.....its just the thought.......even a single rose...its not

the actual flower.....:)

nite sweetie...bless u..

barbie

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Kay,

Thank you for sharing your feelings with us. Your post touched my

heart.

Shell

>

> > Hello everyone:

> >

> > (Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open

> > discussion of relationship/sexual issues)

> >

> > Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to

> > share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately,

this

> > one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not

only

> > help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the

> > relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.

> >

> > Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most

> > painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this weight

> > loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so

for our

> > spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us

many

> > times that losing weight does not solve all problems and make our

> > lives perfect and easy.

> >

> > Recently, I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace the

> > ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that

once I

> > lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be

> > uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.

> >

> > I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently

met

> > someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no

> > physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and

there

> > are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be

> > different about our partners, but we both love our partners

dearly.

> > We met last night and discussed our lives and where our

relationships

> > were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends

and not

> > take our attraction to another level.

> >

> > I think this is the best outcome. But on the way home, my old

demon,

> > Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from

him

> > in a long time (about a year and a half). was the

one

> > who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was

relieved to

> > have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best.

However,

> > there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school

dance

> > that no one wants to dance with or worse... the loser who gets

picked

> > last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the

loser no

> > one wanted on his/her team.

> >

> > On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself, reassure

> > myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had

the

> > presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like

crap,

> > though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel

these

> > feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before,

this

> > type of episode would have put me head-deep into the

refrigerator and

> > the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated

with

> > high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.

> >

> > But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something

is

> > wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know,

I've

> > been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual

> > relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric

bypass,

> > it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the

> > reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars.

> >

> > The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put

their

> > arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm

afraid

> > or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch

on the

> > small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift

because

> > it's a Tuesday afternoon and they were thinking of me. I used

to do

> > that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not

demonstrative

> > at all; it's not in his nature. In fact he's just like my Dad:

> > dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding

person.

> >

> > I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself

on

> > our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers

are a

> > waste of money because they die. I know we can't have

everything in

> > life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you

feel

> > loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it

out

> > on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I

do

> > get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make

fun

> > of me.

> >

> > So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works

with my

> > PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I

won't

> > wait until I've lost control and started making bad choices in my

> > eating. That would make my feelings even worse.

> >

> > Well, I just wanted to share this. I don't know if anyone else

has

> > experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the

process has

> > been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation

> > doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the

feelings

> > I'm going through.

> >

> > Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What

would

> > I do without this group?

> >

> > Gemello

> > open rny 06/03/03

> > reconstruction 05/25/04

> > -138 lbs

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Kay:

You are such an important part of our group, and I'm glad that you

had the courage to post this message.

You have such a wonderful and healthy perspective that I always draw

great lessons and strength from your words.

The book that the behavior specialist recommended was about the

Sexual Revolution in the 70s. I took a look at the reviews and a

synopsis, and I don't thing that it will address what's going on with

me, so I'm looking for something that has to do with weight loss,

body image and sexuality/fidelity.

If I come upon a good book (or if anyone knows of one), I'll share

that info with the group.

I love the bawdy wench description. A dear friend of mine has always

described herself as a saucy wench! That just makes me laugh.

Gemello

-138 lbs

>

> > Hello everyone:

> >

> > (Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open

> > discussion of relationship/sexual issues)

> >

> > Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to

> > share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately,

this

> > one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not

only

> > help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the

> > relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.

> >

> > Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most

> > painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this weight

> > loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so for

our

> > spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us

many

> > times that losing weight does not solve all problems and make our

> > lives perfect and easy.

> >

> > Recently, I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace the

> > ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that

once I

> > lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be

> > uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.

> >

> > I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently

met

> > someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no

> > physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and

there

> > are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be

> > different about our partners, but we both love our partners

dearly.

> > We met last night and discussed our lives and where our

relationships

> > were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends and

not

> > take our attraction to another level.

> >

> > I think this is the best outcome. But on the way home, my old

demon,

> > Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from

him

> > in a long time (about a year and a half). was the one

> > who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was relieved

to

> > have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best.

However,

> > there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school

dance

> > that no one wants to dance with or worse... the loser who gets

picked

> > last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the loser

no

> > one wanted on his/her team.

> >

> > On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself, reassure

> > myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had the

> > presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like

crap,

> > though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel

these

> > feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before,

this

> > type of episode would have put me head-deep into the refrigerator

and

> > the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated

with

> > high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.

> >

> > But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something is

> > wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know,

I've

> > been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual

> > relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric

bypass,

> > it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the

> > reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars.

> >

> > The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put

their

> > arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm

afraid

> > or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch on

the

> > small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift

because

> > it's a Tuesday afternoon and they were thinking of me. I used to

do

> > that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not

demonstrative

> > at all; it's not in his nature. In fact he's just like my Dad:

> > dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding

person.

> >

> > I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself

on

> > our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers

are a

> > waste of money because they die. I know we can't have everything

in

> > life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you feel

> > loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it

out

> > on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I do

> > get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make

fun

> > of me.

> >

> > So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works

with my

> > PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I won't

> > wait until I've lost control and started making bad choices in my

> > eating. That would make my feelings even worse.

> >

> > Well, I just wanted to share this. I don't know if anyone else

has

> > experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the process

has

> > been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation

> > doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the

feelings

> > I'm going through.

> >

> > Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What

would

> > I do without this group?

> >

> > Gemello

> > open rny 06/03/03

> > reconstruction 05/25/04

> > -138 lbs

> >

> >

> >

> >

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thank you....also....:)

its wonderful to love your mate....guide them....try to understand ... but you have to be careful not to lose yourself in the process...kinda like that old saying..."you can lead a horse to water but u cant force them to drink".

barbie...

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To Kay and Gemello

The adventure of weight loss surgery just gets deeper and deeper and more rooted with so much other than just the tool and its way you can work the tool for better health , this whole venture can be so mind boggling, but it is a life altering change and how lucky are all of us to be able to learn so much from people like kay and Gemello who are this far out in their journeys. Of course because i sort of know kay and gemello from the postings i want what makes them the happiest................I do not know their life mates but I know they are two great people, with intellegence, and neither one is selfish, they are both open hearted and honest. I am glad that they are getting hugs and pats on the back and attention, because it may be a vitamin they need essential to their lives they may of been somewhat lacking in before. Dilemas in life and temptations and lust....................I dont know about it only happened once to me where the potential was there to stray when i was

young from my first husband, i didnt and for many years later wondered if i should have............... So after my babbles i dont have alot to say but just what is on my mind

and it is all food for thought, ( no pun intended) I wonder if they have a weight loss surgery romance group, for the single folk, imagine how cool that would be being on the same diet and exercise regime...................havng that bond in commen.................

anyways, i am so lucky as all of us to have such trusting and honest people to share these things with

ColleenKay wrote:

Hi Gemello,I am always touched by your openness and trust - you speak so clearly and with such candor.Mr. Negative Self Talk may rear his ugly head from time to time, but you have gained such strength in these past months that I am sure that you will be able to put him in his place. I admire your wisdom and part of that wisdom is knowing when to look to others for counsel. I feel confident that the behavioral specialist will able to help you sort out a lot of the feelings you are having to deal with at the moment - feelings that we can no longer buffer with food.Your Zach sounds in some ways like my husband, Bob. He is a very sweet, hard-working, dependable guy - he has always been supportive of me, even when I was at my worst with depression and increasing mobility problems. I love him with a tenderness that I've never

felt for anyone else. Nonetheless, there are times when our relationship feels terribly incomplete. We often don't seem to be able to demonstrate our feelings in ways that connect with the other's needs. I say "we" because I know that I am an equal partner in this.I am finding this message very hard to write. I am typing now through tears. I love my husband so much that I feel wretched about the other feelings I've been having. Bob has his own mental-health issues stemming from an abusive childhood - he given to horrible verbal outbursts. These outbursts are always directed at himself - never at me - yet they still feel like an assault. I have been seeing my therapist much more frequently in the last several months - in part because I am finding it harder and harder to cope with this situation. I know that it is not something of his choosing - but instead of persisting in seeking help, he will go to a therapist only to quit

after a visit or two. My shrink says that I am having a harder time now because I no longer have the comfort foods to take the edge off of the fears that this behaviour brings up for me. When I was a kid, my parents would have the same sort of verbal slinging matches, often ending with threats of my father leaving. It always felt like my world was going to end. When Bob explodes, it feels the same way. He doesn't threaten to leave - but I so fear that he will have a heart attack or stroke . Wow! This message has really kinda gone where I wasn't expecting - I suppose I could just delete it, but I'm thinking that I will follow Gemello's example of candor and trust.What I had sort of planned to talk about was the temptations that are surfacing. I'm only 8 months post-op and a long way from being "normal" in appearance - yet, these issues are already arising for me. As most of you know by now, I've been working at the

Renaissance Faire for the last few weeks. If ever there was a place for me to find temptation - that's it. Compliments, comforting touches, outright flirtations from old friends and new acquaintances - these have been a major part of this faire for me. Nothing has been inappropriate within its context - but I find a part of myself that I had thought long dead reawakening. I was a bawdy, flirtatious wench once upon a time - so much so that I had to think long and hard before making a commitment to Bob. Nothing that has happened has shaken that commitment - but I am do really like the attention that I am getting and would love to get more of that sort of attention from my husband.So . . . I continue to see my shrink. I continue to learn to live without the buffer of comfort foods. And, oh, so importantly, I continue to turn to you folks for support, insight and understanding.I know that this has been a very long posting.

Sorry about that . . . thanks for reading this far.All the best,KayGemello DiGiovanni wrote:> Hello everyone:>> (Please avoid this post if you are uncomfortable with an open> discussion of relationship/sexual issues)>> Well, how do I start this post? Let's just say that I wanted to> share a recent development in my wls journey and unfortunately, this> one is not a happy, magic moment. I'm hoping that this will not only> help me vent a bit, but will let the pre-ops know some of the> relationship stuff that comes up with a new body.>> Through all the changes I've experienced, this one is the most> painful and is tearing my heart to shreds. You know, this weight> loss is a difficult process for us, and perhaps, even more so for our> spouses/significant others. Dr. Gity at Kaiser SSF has told us many> times that losing weight does

not solve all problems and make our> lives perfect and easy.>> Recently, I've been expanding my circle of friends to replace the> ones lost through this process. My fear has always been that once I> lost the weight, there would be sexual tensions that I would be> uncomfortable with. Well, my fear has been realized.>> I will keep the language here as discreet as I can. I recently met> someone ( ) and there was mutual attraction, but no> physical contact. We are both in long-term relationships, and there> are (like in all relationships) things that we wish could be> different about our partners, but we both love our partners dearly. > We met last night and discussed our lives and where our relationships> were headed, and decided that it was better to remain friends and not> take our attraction to another level.>> I think this is the best outcome. But on the

way home, my old demon,> Mr. Negative Self Talk came up in my head. I haven't heard from him> in a long time (about a year and a half). was the one> who first suggested that we just stay friends, and I was relieved to> have this out in the open, and I agreed that this was best. However,> there was part of me that felt like the fat kid at the school dance> that no one wants to dance with or worse... the loser who gets picked> last for the softball team. I was always that fat kid, the loser no> one wanted on his/her team.>> On my way home, I had to really fight to comfort myself, reassure> myself and counter the negative self talk. And at least I had the> presence of mind to actively counteract it. I still feel like crap,> though. However, I am proud to say that I just let myself feel these> feelings, and I didn't turn to food to comfort myself. Before, this> type of

episode would have put me head-deep into the refrigerator and> the pantry, and I wouldn't have resurfaced until I was bloated with> high sugar, high fat, high salt, high carb foods.>> But here it is the next day, and I think Zach notices something is> wrong. He snapped at me this morning for no reason. You know, I've> been expanding my circle of friends, but I don't want any sexual> relationship with these friends. But ever since my gastric bypass,> it's like Zach is afraid to touch me. And now after the> reconstruction, it's the same. He won't even look at my scars. >> The thing I want and don't get is very simple: someone to put their> arm around me for no reason, someone to hold my hand when I'm afraid> or even just because their happy to be with me, a slight touch on the> small of my back as I'm cooking dinner or maybe a tiny gift because> it's a Tuesday afternoon and they

were thinking of me. I used to do> that with Zach, but he never did it with me. He's not demonstrative> at all; it's not in his nature. In fact he's just like my Dad:> dependable, steadfast, strong, and a hard-working, upstanding person.>> I love all those things about him, but sending flowers to myself on> our anniversary sucks. According to Zach (and my Dad) flowers are a> waste of money because they die. I know we can't have everything in> life, but being appreciated in small, everyday ways makes you feel> loved. So here again, I'm feeling like the fat kid who sits it out> on the bench while everyone else gets to play. And then when I do> get to play, I strike out and all the other kids laugh and make fun> of me.>> So this morning, I called the behavioral specialist who works with my> PCP. I left a message because I need to talk to someone. I won't> wait until I've lost

control and started making bad choices in my> eating. That would make my feelings even worse.>> Well, I just wanted to share this. I don't know if anyone else has> experienced this, but everything I've gone through in the process has> been a common experience to at least some. And if the situation> doesn't fit, at least I hope that you all can understand the feelings> I'm going through.>> Thanks for reading this LONG post. I'm hanging in there. What would> I do without this group?>> Gemello> open rny 06/03/03> reconstruction 05/25/04> -138 lbs>>>>

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Hi Colleen,

Thank you for the kind words. They are another sort of " vitamin " we

need in our lives.

I don't know if there is a group for weight loss surgery singles - but

there should. Not for me . . . despite any bumps in the road we may be

experiencing, my husband and I are together along this path. However .

.. . at the in-person support groups that I've been to, the topics of

dating and possibilities for intimate encounters have arisen and seem to

be a serious concern for those folks who are now facing the world

without the shielding layers they wore before.

A friend of mine who lost about 200 pounds found herself really

resenting the attention she started to get from people who wouldn't have

given her the time of day when she was heavier. I've talked with others

who are enjoying the attention, but are fearful of getting closer

(emotionally & /or physically). Come to think of it, these issues aren't

restricted to the single folks.

Enough of my rambling for now.

Kay

in San Leandro

open RNY 12/1/03

Colleen Garner wrote:

> To Kay and Gemello

>

> The adventure of weight loss surgery just gets deeper and deeper and

> more rooted with so much other than just the tool and its way you can

> work the tool for better health , this whole venture can be so mind

> boggling, but it is a life altering change and how lucky are all of us

> to be able to learn so much from people like kay and Gemello who are

> this far out in their journeys. Of course because i sort of know kay

> and gemello from the postings i want what makes them the

> happiest................I do not know their life mates but I know they

> are two great people, with intellegence, and neither one is selfish,

> they are both open hearted and honest. I am glad that they are getting

> hugs and pats on the back and attention, because it may be a vitamin

> they need essential to their lives they may of been somewhat lacking

> in before. Dilemas in life and temptations and

> lust....................I dont know about it only happened once to me

> where the potential was there to stray when i was young from my first

> husband, i didnt and for many years later wondered if i should

> have............... So after my babbles i dont have alot to say but

> just what is on my mind

> and it is all food for thought, ( no pun intended) I wonder if they

> have a weight loss surgery romance group, for the single folk, imagine

> how cool that would be being on the same diet and exercise

> regime...................havng that bond in commen.................

> anyways, i am so lucky as all of us to have such trusting and honest

> people to share these things with

> Colleen

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