yoghurt cooling temps

[Guest guest]

Elaine says on the website to cool the yoghurt down to around 110 and

then do the rest. But I have seen a couple of examples that say to cool

the yoghurt all the way down to 80. Which is it? Thanks Sky

[Guest guest]

110 degrees works fine.

n

From:

BTVC-SCD [mailto:BTVC-SCD ] On Behalf Of subhadradasi2000

Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 2:01 AM

To: BTVC-SCD

Subject: yoghurt cooling temps

Elaine says on the website to cool the yoghurt

down to around 110 and

then do the rest. But I have seen a couple of examples that say to cool

the yoghurt all the way down to 80. Which is it? Thanks Sky

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[Guest guest]

Sky, 110 is the highest that you want your yogurt to ferment at. the difference in the temps are because Elaine says to cool to room temp and that could vary. You would want it lower then 110 when you put in your starter because the different cultures like slightly different temps. I cool it until it is not hot on my wrist, as a rule of thumb, then put in my culture. I read about a year ago that they have tried to contact the person caring for the website to have it changed. Katy

Elaine says on the website to cool the yoghurt down to around 110 and then do the rest. But I have seen a couple of examples that say to cool the yoghurt all the way down to 80. Which is it? Thanks Sky

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[Guest guest]

Actually, the new protocol is to lower thetemp. to Canadian room temperature, which isabout 75 degrees. Apparently this allows thebacteria to wake up more slowly, creating a fuller and more vibrant bacterial growth. As opposedto shocking them awake from cold to hot. 110 is too high.Mara110 degrees works fine. n From: BTVC-SCD [mailto:BTVC-SCD ] On Behalf Of subhadradasi2000Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 2:01 AMTo: BTVC-SCD Subject: yoghurt cooling temps Elaine says on the website to cool the yoghurt down to around 110 and then do the rest. But I have seen a couple of examples that say to cool the yoghurt all the way down to 80. Which is it? Thanks Sky No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG.Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1975 - Release Date: 2/27/2009 7:05 AMNo virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG.Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1975 - Release Date: 2/27/2009 7:05 AM

[Guest guest]

Hi Sky-

I recently called Lucy's Kitchen shop to order another glass container for my yogurt maker and asked her that same question. She has been on the diet 16 years and knew Elaine. She said that the yogurt just needed to be below 100 degrees - and that the temperature in the yogurt maker can fluctuate above the 110 degrees but that Elaine had written the 100 and 110 degrees as a ball park. I had cooled a batch of yogurt down to room tempurature - about 70 degrees- and it then took forever using the Yogourmet yogurt maker to get the temperature back up to the 100 degree range to then process for 24+ hours.

Heidi

Husband, Wade CD

SCD 11/08

To: BTVC-SCD From: subhadradasi2000@...Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:00:54 +0000Subject: yoghurt cooling temps

Elaine says on the website to cool the yoghurt down to around 110 and then do the rest. But I have seen a couple of examples that say to cool the yoghurt all the way down to 80. Which is it? Thanks Sky

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[Guest guest]

110 is too high for what? You’ll get great tasting, thick yogurt

by keeping it at that temperature for 24 hours.

What Elaine didn’t suggest (that I recall) is taking your portion

of starter yogurt out of the refrigerator and letting it sit (covered) at room

temperature (which in the winter is 67-68 degrees F in my house) while your

milk or ½ and ½ is cooling so that the starter isn’t direct-from-refrigerator

cold.

None of this affects either the taste or efficacy of the

starter, however, that I’ve been able to discern. In fact, the hotter the

better, up to about 120 F.

Unless somebody has the equipment and knowledge to test the strains

of bacteria in their milk and in their starter yogurt and in the milk-turning-to-yogurt,

a person is not going to have a clue what the bacteria in there

is doing, exactly, how active they are or even what kinds are in there.

I recently came across an article by a professor of biology and chemistry

at Clermont College in Ohio, Dr. Fankhauser. He says that the temperatures

between which Lactobacilli and Streptococcus thermophilus grow

are between 37 C (98 F) and 55 C (130 F) – and these are temperatures

at which pathogenic or putrifactive bacteria are inhibited. He incubates

his yogurt at 50oC (122 F), a temperature on the high side of its

preferred growth temperature, he admits, but a temperature which definitely inhibits

the growth of pathogenic bacteria. He notes that many recipes call for

cooler temperatures than this but says, “We find the results less

dependable when incubation temperatures are lower.”  I’m no

scientist, but I concur with his experience; I’ve found the same thing.  I’ve

allowed my heated milk to cool as low as 80 F when I happen to forget about it,

but normally I don’t. It takes too long to bring it back up to 110, my

incubating temperature.  

n

P.S. For anybody interested in Fankhauser’s illustrated yogurt

making page it’s at http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/cheese/yogurt_making/yogurt2000.htm

From:

BTVC-SCD [mailto:BTVC-SCD ] On Behalf Of Mara

Schiffren

Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 12:33 PM

To: BTVC-SCD

Subject: Re: yoghurt cooling temps

Actually, the new protocol is to lower the

temp. to Canadian room temperature, which is

about 75 degrees. Apparently this allows the

bacteria to wake up more slowly, creating a

fuller and more vibrant bacterial growth. As opposed

to shocking them awake from cold to hot.

110 is too high.

Mara

110 degrees works fine.

n

From: BTVC-SCD [mailto:BTVC-SCD ] On Behalf Of subhadradasi2000

Sent: Friday, February 27,

2009 2:01 AM

To: BTVC-SCD

Subject:

yoghurt cooling temps

Elaine says on the website to cool the yoghurt

down to around 110 and

then do the rest. But I have seen a couple of examples that say to cool

the yoghurt all the way down to 80. Which is it? Thanks Sky

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message.

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message.

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AM

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[Guest guest]

n, here is an older post of Marilyn's.

Yogurt Confusion

Ok, so, there's confusion about the temperature for the yogurt.Yogurt does need to ferment between 100-110F. I usually set my dehydrator a twitch past the 105F, and that gives me a perfect temperature, but each dehydrator and its location may be different.On page 155 (of the later editions of BTVC), Elaine says, after instructing how to pasteurize the milk, "Cover and cool until it has reached room temperature or below (may be placed in refrigerator to hasten cooling). It is very important that you allow the temperature to drop sufficiently or you will kill the bacterial culture you are now ready to introduce."Where we get into a headache is, "What defines 'room temperature'?"Please note that nowhere in here does Elaine specify "77F" or anything similar. Just "room temperature."Apparently, "room temperature" in Canada is usually 77F or lower! LOL! (I'd have an electric bill up the wazzoo if I kept this house at 77F or lower in the summer!) So someone decided this was the optimum temperature, and must have been what Elaine meant. Unlike those of us who need thermometers, Elaine could touch the side of a cooling pan of milk and KNOW if it was cool enough -- she'd been making yogurt for 40+ years!Where the confusion comes about is that on Elaine's website, approved by Elaine, is the statement "Allow the milk to cool to below 110'F(43C) luke warm temperature (body temperature) or cooler."Even more confusing is that the original BTVC website, also approved by Elaine, (now T's, since she gave over being webmaster when non-SCD-related health issues got to her), says, "Turn the heat off and allow to cool to between 108 and 112 degrees F."Please note that neither of these sites says to cool it TO the given temperature. It says to cool it BELOW that temperature. T's site gives the high end of the Yogurt Fairy Comfort Zone, but I've found that temperature range on many yogurt making sites. On the other hand, body temperature is (unless you have low thyroid or a fever) around 98.6F.I take a great hulking chunk of ice out of the ice maker -- yogurt making is so handy for clearing out old, dead ice from the ice maker! -- run the coldest water I can get in the sink (which is usually around 85F in the summer), stopper it, and add the ice. Then I set the milk pan on a rack in the cold water.Never yet had the milk go below 80F -- and I used to feel (since no one had made the Ruling That It Must Be 77F Or Lower), based on what Elaine said, that I was OK. In fact, I went through paroxysms of "Oh, NO! Have I been using bad yogurt all this time?!" when I saw the higher temps on the web site. Until I read what they were actually saying. Problem is, too many people are so eager to get on with their yogurt making that they add the starter AT that temperature, and this can be a problem. So what's the reason, other than needing a specific temperature for people to shoot for, for specifying 77F? The feeling appears to be that unless you activate the starter at a lower temperature and then gently raise it to the incubation temperature, you will shock the yogurt bacteria (aka Yogurt Fairies) and they will not do their thing.I've made yogurt anywhere from 100F to 80F when I added the culture, and it's always turned out fine. BUT, and this is the key point -- some very sensitive people may do better with yogurt made by adding the starter at the lower temperature, and then gently raising it to the fermenting zone. It is NOT, however, a reason to panic if the temperature was 79F or even 90F. You may wish to snarl at yourself about the time and materials wasted, or you may delight a family member by gifting them with some lovely homemade yogurt if you're uncertain. As for how long to ferment, well....Part of the reason for adding the starter closer to the fermentation point is that it takes less of your time waiting for the milk temperature to come down after you just spent time raising it. You also don't have to let it sit there for a couple of hours and then start timing it. I can tell you that the 90-100F yogurt has usually occurred when I forgot to put the milk on, and then it took longer to heat, and too <expletives deleted> long to cool because I didn't have any ice> and I was <bleep>ing tired and wanted to go to bed! (Every time, I resolve not to forget to start the yogurt right after dinner....)Let's assume that I wasn't running late getting in from water therapy, that I didn't drop the chicken on the floor (where it was promptly eaten by the Dachshund Duo) and that we didn't end up going out to eat, and thus get back late....To wit, it's only 7p or so, and the milk has cooled as good as it gets in New Orleans, ie, 80F.Well, then, I mix it up (and the milk cools a couple more degrees as I'm pouring it from pan to yogurt container and mixing: I have quite a ritual that I use, but hey, it produces great yogurt every time!), put the container in the dehydrator, set the dehydrator for around 107F (which, allowing for slight heat loss gets me a nice 105F: I tested it with a thermometer and water).Do I then sit around to take my yogurt's temperature at 9p to be sure it's at optimum?No... most likely, I'm in here at the computer typing about making yogurt, or some other SCD thing.What I do is figure that about 2 hours will get it up to speed, and another 24 will see it properly fermented. So I stick a piece of masking tape on the door of the dehydrator with Time + 2 hours (in this case, 9P), and leave the yogurt fairies to get on with it.The following night, probably around 9:30, because I got busy at the computer again, I go in, remove the container, and stick it in the fridge. Yogurt made.Any more questions?

— Marilyn New Orleans, Louisiana, USA Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 Darn Good SCD Cook No Human Children Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

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[Guest guest]

I have never understood the 110 degrees temp because that meant that

the yogurt never needed heating up. The first time my mum made it she

needed a temp for cool down and as their was not one in the book I

obviously went to the website. We have gone down to a 100. But from now

on I will go down to between 85-90. We live in a hot climate. My mum is

not going to like this. Sky

[Guest guest]

Holy curdled milk, Batman! Your method sounds very, VERY

complicated!

If I had to do all that every time I made yogurt, I’d very

likely quite making the stuff.

I’ll stick with what I’ve been doing. It’s

easy. It works fine.

I don’t “get” the lowering of the temperature

that much. It’s just not necessary.

The only reason to cool the milk at all is so as not to

kill the bacteria needed to make the yogurt (which can actually be as high as

122 F, as the biologist/chemist I quoted said, based on his knowledge of those

strains of bacteria).

Yogurt making is a pretty forgiving enterprise.

n

From: BTVC-SCD

[mailto:BTVC-SCD ] On Behalf Of kplatt@...

Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 4:31 PM

To: BTVC-SCD

Subject: RE: yoghurt cooling temps

n, here is an older post of Marilyn's.

Yogurt Confusion

Ok, so, there's confusion about the temperature for the yogurt.

Yogurt does need to ferment between 100-110F. I usually set my dehydrator a

twitch past the 105F, and that gives me a perfect temperature, but each

dehydrator and its location may be different.

On page 155 (of the later editions of BTVC), Elaine says, after instructing how

to pasteurize the milk, " Cover and cool until it has reached room

temperature or below (may be placed in refrigerator to hasten cooling). It is

very important that you allow the temperature to drop sufficiently or you will

kill the bacterial culture you are now ready to introduce. "

Where we get into a headache is, " What defines 'room temperature'? "

Please note that nowhere in here does Elaine specify " 77F " or

anything similar. Just " room temperature. "

Apparently, " room temperature " in Canada is usually 77F or lower!

LOL! (I'd have an electric bill up the wazzoo if I kept this house at 77F or

lower in the summer!) So someone decided this was the optimum temperature, and

must have been what Elaine meant. Unlike those of us who need thermometers,

Elaine could touch the side of a cooling pan of milk and KNOW if it was cool

enough -- she'd been making yogurt for 40+ years!

Where the confusion comes about is that on Elaine's website, approved by

Elaine, is the statement " Allow the milk to cool to below 110'F(43C) luke

warm temperature (body temperature) or cooler. "

Even more confusing is that the original BTVC website, also approved by Elaine,

(now T's, since she gave over being webmaster when non-SCD-related health

issues got to her), says, " Turn the heat off and allow to cool to between

108 and 112 degrees F. "

Please note that neither of these sites says to cool it TO the given

temperature. It says to cool it BELOW that temperature. T's site gives the high

end of the Yogurt Fairy Comfort Zone, but I've found that temperature range on

many yogurt making sites. On the other hand, body temperature is (unless you

have low thyroid or a fever) around 98.6F.

I take a great hulking chunk of ice out of the ice maker -- yogurt making is so

handy for clearing out old, dead ice from the ice maker! -- run the coldest

water I can get in the sink (which is usually around 85F in the summer),

stopper it, and add the ice. Then I set the milk pan on a rack in the cold

water.

Never yet had the milk go below 80F -- and I used to feel (since no one had

made the Ruling That It Must Be 77F Or Lower), based on what Elaine said, that

I was OK. In fact, I went through paroxysms of " Oh, NO! Have I been using

bad yogurt all this time?! " when I saw the higher temps on the web site.

Until I read what they were actually saying. Problem is, too many people are so

eager to get on with their yogurt making that they add the starter AT that

temperature, and this can be a problem.

So what's the reason, other than needing a specific temperature for people to

shoot for, for specifying 77F? The feeling appears to be that unless you

activate the starter at a lower temperature and then gently raise it to the

incubation temperature, you will shock the yogurt bacteria (aka Yogurt Fairies)

and they will not do their thing.

I've made yogurt anywhere from 100F to 80F when I added the culture, and it's

always turned out fine. BUT, and this is the key point -- some very sensitive

people may do better with yogurt made by adding the starter at the lower

temperature, and then gently raising it to the fermenting zone. It is NOT,

however, a reason to panic if the temperature was 79F or even 90F. You may wish

to snarl at yourself about the time and materials wasted, or you may delight a

family member by gifting them with some lovely homemade yogurt if you're

uncertain.

As for how long to ferment, well....

Part of the reason for adding the starter closer to the fermentation point is

that it takes less of your time waiting for the milk temperature to come down

after you just spent time raising it. You also don't have to let it sit there

for a couple of hours and then start timing it. I can tell you that the 90-100F

yogurt has usually occurred when I forgot to put the milk on, and then it took

longer to heat, and too <expletives deleted> long to cool because I

didn't have any ice> and I was <bleep>ing tired and wanted to go to

bed! (Every time, I resolve not to forget to start the yogurt right after

dinner....)

Let's assume that I wasn't running late getting in from water therapy, that I

didn't drop the chicken on the floor (where it was promptly eaten by the

Dachshund Duo) and that we didn't end up going out to eat, and thus get back

late....

To wit, it's only 7p or so, and the milk has cooled as good as it gets in New

Orleans, ie, 80F.

Well, then, I mix it up (and the milk cools a couple more degrees as I'm

pouring it from pan to yogurt container and mixing: I have quite a ritual that

I use, but hey, it produces great yogurt every time!), put the container in the

dehydrator, set the dehydrator for around 107F (which, allowing for slight heat

loss gets me a nice 105F: I tested it with a thermometer and water).

Do I then sit around to take my yogurt's temperature at 9p to be sure it's at

optimum?

No... most likely, I'm in here at the computer typing about making yogurt, or

some other SCD thing.

What I do is figure that about 2 hours will get it up to speed, and another 24

will see it properly fermented. So I stick a piece of masking tape on the door

of the dehydrator with Time + 2 hours (in this case, 9P), and leave the yogurt

fairies to get on with it.

The following night, probably around 9:30, because I got busy at the computer

again, I go in, remove the container, and stick it in the fridge.

Yogurt made.

Any more questions?

— Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG.

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