Re: Life further out: The traps

[Guest guest]

Hi Martha

I am so glad that this is being addressed. I for one have really slacked off on going to the meetings. I forget to go and like you said some times they can get to be a little redundant. It is great that Gity is recognizing the needs of the ones that are out a lot further.

Ramona

[Guest guest]

The manure hits the Oscillator?

[Guest guest]

OK, well, I know I'm just newly post-op (6 1/2 weeks since surgery),

but I've also lost a larger quantity of weight (not to goal, though),

and gained it all back, so I understand the need for constant

vigilance & incentive to get it all off.

My idea (for me) is to find some of my worse " fat-me " pictures where

I was the heaviest, and carry them around with me. When I feel

tempted to go " off program " and change my eating, water drinking and

exercise hapbits, I'll take the pictures out and look at them and try

to remember all the difficulties I had when I weighted 315 pounds (on

my 5' 1 " body). I'll remember all the pills I had to take too.

Hopefully that will keep me on track and grateful for this

marvelous " tool " of WLS that I have been given, and I'll be able to

stay skinny and healthy. I do pray that I can stay healthy the rest

of my life.

It would also be great if we can set up a support group for

the " oldies " by the time I've been a few years past reaching my goal

weight.

--Sandi H. from Citrus Heights, CA.

Surgery 6/3/04 by Dr. Leo in San Diego.

And...Why is it that some of us don't lose all our weight, and/or end

up gaining some of it back?

> [PART DELETED]

> Anyway, Gity decided on Saturday at KSSF to give us our own room so

we old timers could have a safe place to talk about this stuff. It

was great. She's going to do this at every post-op meeting (3rd

Saturday, KSSF cafeteria, 9:30 AM). So if any of this sounds

familiar, please come.

>

> Martha

GREAT idea about the old timer's meeting!

[Guest guest]

Martha:

This is a GREAT idea!

I'm almost 14 months out, I've had reconstructive surgery, and I'd

really appreciated this type of support.

What is the criteria for attending?

While I'm more than happy to answer questions and support the pre-ops

and newbies (I think it's important for me to help those as I was

helped), there does need to be a forum for longer-term issues, which

ALL of us will eventually face.

Thanks Martha. I would really like to be part of this.

Gemello

open rny 06/03/03

reconstruction 05/25/04

-138 lbs

***edited post***

> Anyway, Gity decided on Saturday at KSSF to give us our own room so

we

> old timers could have a safe place to talk about this stuff. It was

> great. She's going to do this at every post-op meeting (3rd

Saturday,

> KSSF cafeteria, 9:30 AM). So if any of this sounds familiar, please

> come.

>

> Martha

[Guest guest]

Gastric Bypass support is just that. Support from all levels of

involvement. I can certainly understand some disinterest with

the " same old issues " . However if there is a topic that presents

itself to the post ops " old timers " then I would also like to hear

what they have to say. I will be an old timer someday too.

What type of eating issues are you struggling with?

If you can get the others who have fallen away to come to an active

support group perhaps we can get them some help. I do agree with your

theory though. Once a person feels they have been there and done that

then whats the point. It is up to all us to make sure the point is

Continued support throughout our lives.

You are the pioneers who went before. Our mentors and teachers.

If all of you stopped going would the surgery be successful

still?

Are you close to the Antioch Group? I would be more then happy

to share information and encourage them to participate. The Antioch

Group is doing some different things with they way we stucture our

group. The " new people orientation is after the main group or the

post ops " old timers " . The first part of the group is dedicated to

the post op seniors which define the topics of discussion. Last

meeting we had the testimonial of one of the post ops who looks

great. She was an excellent speaker and all who were present enjoyed

the testimonial.

The questions you have asked have been answered in different

ways at both the meetings I have attended. But I am sure there are

others who will respond to that as well.

The weight changes are because we are all different and will

lose different and at different times and from different places.

As far as gaining some of the weight back. It is normal for

about a ten lb weight flux. This is in the readings regarding the

surgery. Your PCP should also be able to answer some of these

questions as well.

The surgery was the tool that is allowing us all the chance to

make the change. It is a life long process that we have to always

remember. Cheating or indulging will send us back to where it all

began. Back to the fat. So what I think I am hearing is there is a

high rate of returning to the old habits that got us in trouble in

the firt place.

This information would be super valuable to all the new people

as well. Just think what the impact is. There is a chance that you

will become lax or test the waters. This is exactly why we need

support groups.

Feel free to contact me at any time I will do whatever I can to

assist anyone in need.

> Just eyeballing the posts and attendance at support groups, I'd say

that

> 95% of the folks who post and/or attend meetings are either preop,

or

> under 20 months post-op. Lately I, Pat Blaney, and some other 'old

> timers' have been struggling with our eating issues and also

wondering

> how to help the other old timers who've fallen away.

>

> Support is really important, but I think (warning: personal theories

> ahead!) that a lot of people stop going to meetings because:

>

> They don't think they need them. A lot of these folks kinda

disappear

> after surgery.

>

> They get bored with the issues of preops and newbies. Please don't

be

> offended; we want you guys to get what you need! But let's face

it... a

> lot of those meetings are all about the same 20 issues, over and

over. A

> lot of post-ops go to meetings for a while but then disappear.

>

> And...Why is it that some of us don't lose all our weight, and/or

end up

> gaining some of it back?

>

> From what I hear (again, personal theory alert!): That first year IS

> comparatively easy. At first, we may not have much appetite. And

later,

> (even though there may be dumping, even though capacity is smaller)

many

> of us find we can eat contraband foods, or more eat frequently than

is

> recommended, and still lose weight. We obsess about what will or

won't

> go down, what our goal should be, what our numbers are today, etc.

etc.

> Meanwhile we're experimenting with carbs and still losing weight.

>

> It feels like we'll always be able to eat this way, and so we go

further

> out on a limb: We stop eating protein first, we start adding in

carbs,

> we stop exercising, and we don't deal with the compulsions.

>

> Eventually the waste matter hits the whirly-bladed appliance (the

shit

> hits the fan). Our capacity for food increases. Our cravings are

back.

> We've tried carbs over and over, and maybe we don't dump like we

used

> to. So... the weight loss stops, or we start to gain.

>

> Now's when the hard stuff starts. But it's embarrassing,

humiliating, to

> be gaining weight and showing up in larger sizes after a big deal

like

> this. We don't want to talk about our numbers anymore, they're

going the

> wrong way. We don't want to see newbies, or have them see us. And we

> STILL want to be able to eat that stuff; there MUST be a way! Why

can't

> it be like it was in that first year?

>

> Doesn't matter what your goal weight # is or should be if you can't

get

> there.

>

> Anyway, Gity decided on Saturday at KSSF to give us our own room so

we

> old timers could have a safe place to talk about this stuff. It was

> great. She's going to do this at every post-op meeting (3rd

Saturday,

> KSSF cafeteria, 9:30 AM). So if any of this sounds familiar, please

> come.

>

> Martha

[Guest guest]

Hi Martha.....

I totally understand where you are coming from but I wanted to put my

nickles worth in as a " newbie " .

I've been actively involved in several self help groups over the

years. One in particular is AA. I've been practicing sobriety for

twenty-five years and have been attending meetings just as long. I'm

sharing this because I believe that a WLS support group is no

different than any other group of folks who have " been there and done

that " . Sometimes it's really difficult to sit in an AA meeting and

listen to someone drone on about stuff that you've been hearing for a

long time but I can't tell you how many times I've had MY butt saved

by listening to a new person and thereby remembering where I came

from and why I don't want to go back there. (sound familiar ?)

I for one am interested in just about everything I hear regarding WLS

and appreciate the old timers experiences because I know I'm going to

be there real soon and I can use ALL the help I can get.. It would

be a shame to lose the valuable lessons you can share with us new

people.

Hope I'm not offending anyone by comparing AA to WLS but in my

opinion the support received in these groups is the same....just a

different subject.

I hope to continue to see and hear from all you elder statespeople

you you do a lot for us (me)

Regards

Gordy

> Just eyeballing the posts and attendance at support groups, I'd say

that

> 95% of the folks who post and/or attend meetings are either preop,

or

> under 20 months post-op. Lately I, Pat Blaney, and some other 'old

> timers' have been struggling with our eating issues and also

wondering

> how to help the other old timers who've fallen away.

>

> Support is really important, but I think (warning: personal theories

> ahead!) that a lot of people stop going to meetings because:

>

> They don't think they need them. A lot of these folks kinda

disappear

> after surgery.

>

> They get bored with the issues of preops and newbies. Please don't

be

> offended; we want you guys to get what you need! But let's face

it... a

> lot of those meetings are all about the same 20 issues, over and

over. A

> lot of post-ops go to meetings for a while but then disappear.

>

> And...Why is it that some of us don't lose all our weight, and/or

end up

> gaining some of it back?

>

> From what I hear (again, personal theory alert!): That first year IS

> comparatively easy. At first, we may not have much appetite. And

later,

> (even though there may be dumping, even though capacity is smaller)

many

> of us find we can eat contraband foods, or more eat frequently than

is

> recommended, and still lose weight. We obsess about what will or

won't

> go down, what our goal should be, what our numbers are today, etc.

etc.

> Meanwhile we're experimenting with carbs and still losing weight.

>

> It feels like we'll always be able to eat this way, and so we go

further

> out on a limb: We stop eating protein first, we start adding in

carbs,

> we stop exercising, and we don't deal with the compulsions.

>

> Eventually the waste matter hits the whirly-bladed appliance (the

shit

> hits the fan). Our capacity for food increases. Our cravings are

back.

> We've tried carbs over and over, and maybe we don't dump like we

used

> to. So... the weight loss stops, or we start to gain.

>

> Now's when the hard stuff starts. But it's embarrassing,

humiliating, to

> be gaining weight and showing up in larger sizes after a big deal

like

> this. We don't want to talk about our numbers anymore, they're

going the

> wrong way. We don't want to see newbies, or have them see us. And we

> STILL want to be able to eat that stuff; there MUST be a way! Why

can't

> it be like it was in that first year?

>

> Doesn't matter what your goal weight # is or should be if you can't

get

> there.

>

> Anyway, Gity decided on Saturday at KSSF to give us our own room so

we

> old timers could have a safe place to talk about this stuff. It was

> great. She's going to do this at every post-op meeting (3rd

Saturday,

> KSSF cafeteria, 9:30 AM). So if any of this sounds familiar, please

> come.

>

> Martha

[Guest guest]

That sounds like a great idea!!!

I know too well everything you stated !!

Anyone want to carpool...I live sooo far away and absolutely hate

driving in SF. I live in Bay Point and would love to go.

[Guest guest]

on 7/19/04 6:54 PM, Diane Duenas at bdduenas@... wrote:

That sounds like a great idea!!!

I know too well everything you stated !!

Anyone want to carpool...I live sooo far away and absolutely hate

driving in SF. I live in Bay Point and would love to go.

--

I would love to join an East Bay carpool... live in West Contra Costa County.,

Kari Ann.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ramona....

Now that sounds GOOD. By the way...I'm not sure if it's Yahoo but

your fonts on your posts are coming out really weird. it's very hard

to read. Not trying to be a butt...just thought it was worth

mentioning in case you wern't aware of it.

Thanks for the input on the SSF meeting.

Gordy

> Hi Gordy,

> The Post op Casemanagement in SSF are 3 hours long The way that

Gity has been

> doing them if it hasn't changed too much since the last time I

remebered top

> go to one is that we Usually start the meetings off with some

meditation to

> get grounded for the meeting. Then there is a time that Gity talks

and we Listen

> for a bit and then we do share stuff that is going on. A lot of

times the

> nutritionist is there and she shares information with us and we can

bring up

> issues with her. Then there is a time when we do break up into

smaller groups that

> way we can discuss different issues that pertain to where ever we

are in our

> particular part of the journey. After that we get back into a large

groups and

> one of the spokes person fo the groups reports to the whole group

the most

> important thing that was brought up. It isn't that there will be no

sharing I am

> sure. Gity's meeting are very well thought out and so informative.

They are

> really great meetings.

> Ramona

> 1/13/2003

> 357/216/175 some day

[Guest guest]

Gemello,

Hi, honey, how are ya feelin'? I'm going for PS consultations this

month!

Like I said, the meeting is at the same time as the monthly postop

meeting at Kaiser South San Francisco. It's the 3rd Saturday of each

month, 9:30 AM, Kaiser South City cafeteria on the second floor. The

first hour is everyone together. The last 2 are 2 meetings: Immediate

post-ops, and the new session for folks > 1 year out.

You oughta come.

I also recommend we start getting smaller groups together in our local

areas, groups for 6-10 people at a time. If you wish there was a group

for old timers in your area, start one in your living room.

Martha

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:17:06 -0000, " Gemello DiGiovanni "

said:

>

> Martha:

> This is a GREAT idea!

> I'm almost 14 months out, I've had reconstructive surgery, and

> I'd

> really appreciated this type of support.

> What is the criteria for attending?

> While I'm more than happy to answer questions and support the

> pre-ops

> and newbies (I think it's important for me to help those as I

> was

> helped), there does need to be a forum for longer-term issues,

> which

> ALL of us will eventually face.

> Thanks Martha. I would really like to be part of this.

> Gemello

> open rny 06/03/03

> reconstruction 05/25/04

> -138 lbs

>

> ***edited post***

> > Anyway, Gity decided on Saturday at KSSF to give us our own

> room so

> we

> > old timers could have a safe place to talk about this stuff.

> It was

> > great. She's going to do this at every post-op meeting (3rd

> Saturday,

> > KSSF cafeteria, 9:30 AM). So if any of this sounds familiar,

> please

> > come.

> >

> > Martha

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with Gordy, Ramona, the font you've chosen *is* hard to read for those of us with "baby-boomer vision" - ha. Very artistic and comic-bookish, but hard to read. You have such quality stuff to say - could you choose another font? Please please please?

Laurie W.

Re: Life further out: The traps

Hi Ramona....Now that sounds GOOD. By the way...I'm not sure if it's Yahoo but your fonts on your posts are coming out really weird. it's very hard to read. Not trying to be a butt...just thought it was worth mentioning in case you wern't aware of it.Thanks for the input on the SSF meeting.Gordy> Hi Gordy,> The Post op Casemanagement in SSF are 3 hours long The way that Gity has been > doing them if it hasn't changed too much since the last time I remebered top > go to one is that we Usually start the meetings off with some meditation to > get grounded for the meeting. Then there is a time that Gity talks and we Listen > for a bit and then we do share stuff that is going on. A lot of times the > nutritionist is there and she shares information with us and we can bring up > issues with her. Then there is a time when we do break up into smaller groups that > way we can discuss different issues that pertain to where ever we are in our > particular part of the journey. After that we get back into a large groups and > one of the spokes person fo the groups reports to the whole group the most > important thing that was brought up. It isn't that there will be no sharing I am > sure. Gity's meeting are very well thought out and so informative. They are > really great meetings.> Ramona> 1/13/2003> 357/216/175 some day

[Guest guest]

Same old shit, different terms.

;-)

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:20:21 EDT, valkrey1@... said:

> The manure hits the Oscillator?

[Guest guest]

Hi Gordy,

No offense that I can see. I think that it is a very apt comparison.

All the best,

Kay

in San Leandro

open RNY 12/1/03

Gordy wrote:

> . . .Hope I'm not offending anyone by comparing AA to WLS but in my

> opinion the support received in these groups is the same....just a

> different subject.

> . . .

>

> Regards

> Gordy

[Guest guest]

- When is the "Life further out - the traps" meeting in SSF? If I am available, I would be interested in carpooling. Ellen in Concord 687-0896.

Re: Life further out: The traps

That sounds like a great idea!!!I know too well everything you stated !!Anyone want to carpool...I live sooo far away and absolutely hate driving in SF. I live in Bay Point and would love to go.

[Guest guest]

Hi Martha,

Thanks for letting us know about the meeting in SSF. Is the meeting restricted in any way? Could more recent post-ops attend or is it strictly for those at a certain stage? I seem to recall that the support groups at Mill Peninsula were split such that you had to be at least one year post-op to attend the "graduate" meeting.

I'm glad to hear that KSSF has set aside space for the "old-timers" to meet. The support group that I was attending in San Leandro (and will be attending again once the Renaissance Faire no longer claims my weekends) just recently sorta split the group so that the pre-ops and newbies (up to 1 year post-op) start at 1:30 and then the full group starts at 2:00. They did this so that the full group meeting would be able to address topics other than those "same 20 issues, over and over." There are always a few old-timers who attend the

newbie session so they can give advice as needed, but it seems to me that

generally those who are several months out are really the most helpful to

those pre-op and those recently out of surgery - their memories of those first

few weeks or months are still really clear.

I am very, very aware of the struggles that may lie ahead. Continued participation in support groups, both on-line and in-person, seems to be a key component is handling them. I strongly urge folks to attend meetings and to post - especially when you are going through the tough times.

I hope this is OK - I'm not trying hurt this group in any way - it is my home on the internet - however . . .

The only other on-line support group that I read and respond to regularly is one that I joined at its inception about 4 years ago.. Well . . . truth be told, I did go on hiatus from them when it looked like I might not go ahead

with surgery. Any way, most of the folks there who post frequently are 3

or 4 years post-op. Many of them are struggling with issues that don't come

up in the first year or two. They are a very friendly and helpful group. It is also a relatively small group - which I appreciate since I found some groups like OSSG-Graduate (with its 4000+ members) to be so large that I just

couldn't keep up. Oh, the group is ossg-welcome

- just in case any of you might like to check them out. Many of their messages clearly show that those who post frequently have gotten to know each other

pretty well and you might feel out-of-loop for a bit - but if you post about

yourself and ask any questions or express any concerns, they do welcome folks

in and help out with their experience where they can.

This group is still the best one I've ever found and I look forward to reading

and posting here. I've learned so much.

All the best,

Kay

in San Leandro

open RNY 12/1/03

M. Silverspring wrote:

Just eyeballing the posts and attendance at support groups, I'd say that

95% of the folks who post and/or attend meetings are either preop, or

under 20 months post-op. Lately I, Pat Blaney, and some other 'old

timers' have been struggling with our eating issues and also wondering

how to help the other old timers who've fallen away.

Support is really important, but I think (warning: personal theories

ahead!) that a lot of people stop going to meetings because:

They don't think they need them. A lot of these folks kinda disappear

after surgery.

They get bored with the issues of preops and newbies. Please don't be

offended; we want you guys to get what you need! But let's face it... a

lot of those meetings are all about the same 20 issues, over and over.

A

lot of post-ops go to meetings for a while but then disappear.

And...Why is it that some of us don't lose all our weight, and/or end up

gaining some of it back?

>From what I hear (again, personal theory alert!): That first year IS

comparatively easy. At first, we may not have much appetite. And later,

(even though there may be dumping, even though capacity is smaller) many

of us find we can eat contraband foods, or more eat frequently than is

recommended, and still lose weight. We obsess about what will or won't

go down, what our goal should be, what our numbers are today, etc. etc.

Meanwhile we're experimenting with carbs and still losing weight.

It feels like we'll always be able to eat this way, and so we go further

out on a limb: We stop eating protein first, we start adding in carbs,

we stop exercising, and we don't deal with the compulsions.

Eventually the waste matter hits the whirly-bladed appliance (the shit

hits the fan). Our capacity for food increases. Our cravings are back.

We've tried carbs over and over, and maybe we don't dump like we used

to. So... the weight loss stops, or we start to gain.

Now's when the hard stuff starts. But it's embarrassing, humiliating, to

be gaining weight and showing up in larger sizes after a big deal like

this. We don't want to talk about our numbers anymore, they're going the

wrong way. We don't want to see newbies, or have them see us. And we

STILL want to be able to eat that stuff; there MUST be a way! Why can't

it be like it was in that first year?

Doesn't matter what your goal weight # is or should be if you can't get

there.

Anyway, Gity decided on Saturday at KSSF to give us our own room so we

old timers could have a safe place to talk about this stuff. It was

great. She's going to do this at every post-op meeting (3rd Saturday,

KSSF cafeteria, 9:30 AM). So if any of this sounds familiar, please

come.

Martha

[Guest guest]

HI Anne,

The Meeting which Martha is referring to is the monthly post-op case management meeting that you are required to attend for one year after surgery. Each facility has these meetings but it seems like it is different the requirements as to how many you have to go to from one facility to another.

They are really great meetings at Kaiser in South San Francisco. The facilitator is Gity Baxter, Ph.D., Along with Beth Trumbo, MS, RD who is the Dietitian for the Bariatric Department. Gity has been with the Bariatric Program IN SSF for many years and she facilitates the case management meetings. So it is not that the group here is being abandoned. At these case management meetings three are, I think over 100 people at times if not more. Everyone is at different stages in the journey so sometimes after you go to these meeting you really do hear the same thing again and again. When we break up into smaller groups it is so much more helpful for us because then we get to really discuss issues that are happening to us and together we can work on a strategy. The case management meetings do last 3 hours so I am sure that at some point during the morning we will all be together again.

Ramona