Canadian Drugs

January 27, 2003

In a message dated 1/27/2003 8:00:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Grannyof9@... writes:

> We are

> completely disgusted with American pharmaceutical companies for their

> unscrupulous prices and they just keep going up.

Between the phamaceutical companies and the insurance companies... it is

disappointing.

I was put on a medication for pneumonia, and sent home to bed rest... rather

than put in the hospital. When filling the prescription, my insurance

company has that drug listed as 'not covered'. The doctor wanted Bioxen

based on the infection I have... yet the insurance company wants to determine

which drug They think I should get. I was wishing I had just been admitted

instead and cost the insurance company MUCH more than a bottle of pills!

Sorry, a bit grumpy today.

K

Adrienne's Mom

January 27, 2003

In a message dated 1/27/03 2:27:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Firstwifek@... writes:

> Between the phamaceutical companies and the insurance companies... it is

> disappointing.

>

I'd like to add most HMO plans to that list. Does anyone really think we are

going to get a grip on this anytime soon?

http://www.msnbc.com/news/850513.asp

January 27, 2003

Hi Connie (Granny)

Yes, Rx International is based in Manitoba and while the head office is in

Winnepeg the operation itself is in a small town. It is fast becomming a

major employer in that area.

I remember when Vioxx was only available in the States. My doc in

Mississippi prescribed it and my first few months of the prescriptions were

shipped from MS. I was paying 75 US dollars per monthly supply. Once Vioxx

was available in Canada, the cost of the prescription fell to around 45 CDN

dollars. Huge difference.

However, this may not last as Rx International is using a loophole in the

law to provide that service and the drug companies are not happy campers.

Our prescription prices up here are controlled by legislation and Big Drugs

has never liked that. They are pressuring the Government to close the

loophole but may not be successful. A new law being introduced in Canada

will severely limit large donations to political parties by corporations.

The law will pass as it is being introduced by the Government. Not all

members of the Liberal Party (governing party) are on board, but if they

vote against it, they could end up out of a job as money bills in Parliament

are seen as votes of confidence in the Government and if lost, a new

election must be called.

BTW the drugs prescribed are exactly the same as those issued in the US of

A.

+Dave

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 21/01/2003

January 30, 2003

In a message dated 1/29/03 5:57:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, dsgolf9@...

writes:

> The Cheap Drugs Myth

>

The articles subject line is a little misleading...it might be because Palmer

D'Angelo Consulting is representing the USA pharmaceuticals. Before anyone

orders their drugs, they usually try to get the cheapest available...even

from the USA. I know we've done this for the last 10 years. In those 10

years, we have seen drugs soar out of control. We have shopped around many

times and realize that one drug will be cheaper at Walmart...another at Sam's

club and another at another pharmacy. Out of convenience, we go to one

pharmacy that gives us the cheapest overall. Some generics in Canada are more

expensive...but those are not the drugs that people are having trouble paying

for. There are huge savings in Canada with many of the drugs that we have to

take on a continual basis. Vioxx, Celebrex, (new NSAID II drugs that

everyone wants to try) plaquenil, flexeril, bentyl, cosopt, Pred forte,

isopto homatropine (very expensive uveitis drugs when you have to take them

daily) to name a few. Other drugs for high bloodpressure and heart

conditions, like Avapro, can prove to be much cheaper in Canada also.

Although some pharmacies will tell you that there is absolutely no difference

between a generic drug and a brand one (and many times this is true)...I feel

that this is not true with all generics. I prefer Plaquenil brand and Pred

forte brand above any of the generics. I have heard that many have found this

to be true for them also. In fact, my doctor mentioned these two drugs in

particular. If you've found that a generic works just as well, like I have

with some of my meds, wonderful. There are big savings...even in the USA. The

article ( about the myth) mentions several generic drugs that are more

expensive in Canada. I checked them out...and most were just a few dollars

more expensive, (amoxicillin, minocycline, naproxen), not the 40-80%

mentioned. There were different prices at different pharmacies in Canada,

just like the situation in USA. I don't believe all the people that are

getting their drugs from Canada....have not checked for themselves...before

they go this route. Some people are desperate and all of you have heard the

stories and personally many of us have found these expenses hard to take.. I

can afford to buy in the USA, but no one likes to waste their hard earned

money either. I don't feel I owe drug companies these extra fees. I've

already paid them for their research grants through my income taxes.

Pharmaceuticals say that frivolous law suits increase their cost. Hog wash. I

say some were not truthful in their claims to begin with and for others, they

hide the truth about side effects, etc. Should we let this happen without

consequences? How about cutting some of the commercials on TV and in

magazines.....that entice people to push their physicians to try this and

that drug. Not to mention all the lobbying that is going on at Capital Hill

or the dollars spent on lining politicians pockets. That's where a big

portion of their expenses are. Why should we have to pay for their

commercials? We are fortunate to have much research going on...and we benefit

from that. But we need guide lines and pharmaceuticals need to have

accountability like everything and everyone else.

Best regards, Connie (granny)

January 31, 2003

I don't think what happens in the US is fair either Connie. The difference

in prices should not be that much. When a new drug is given approval by the

FDA it usually means that a whole host of countries around the world allow

the drug to be sold in their countries as well. It other words the FDA

approval in the United Sates means that the drug companies can sell their

drug in Canada, Europe, South America and much of Asia. So why the higher

prices in the US? Something is wrong somewhere. I don't claim to know what

it is. BTW, non US pharmaceutical compaines do the same thing as their US

counterparts. A European or Canadian company would get FDA approval first

in the States. I don't blame you for being upset.

January 31, 2003

Just a correction. It is impossible to justify cost differences by country.

However, US approval does not allow European access. The European Union has

its own FDA type organization and companies get approval one country or

region at a time. There are a number of drugs available in Europe that aren't

approved in the US or for the same indications and vice versa. For instance

there is an injectable 2 in Europe that failed to get US approval but

would be tremendously helpful to many in this group. The FDA sometimes has

different standards and requirements than Europe. In the last few years there

has been a trend toward getting new drugs to the US market first because its

more lucrative. I know this won't make anybody feel better but the top

spending company on R & D wasn't GM, IBM or Microsoft it was Pfizer who is

spending 5.2 Billion Dollars on R & D next year. It is one of the mixed

blessings, one could rightly argue they are charging to much for their

medicines, but the profits they make have lead to greater R & D spending and

better drugs like Vioxx, Celebrex, Remicade, Enbrel etc... I don't want to

offend anyone, I just want you to see these issues are complex, bringing a

successful new drug to market costs 802 million, and when the press treats

drug companies like tobacco companies it becomes in vogue to beat up the drug

companies who have thousands of scientists and are spending billions of

dollars to address the medical needs of the public and of course to make

money. Because so many people have arthritis, a fair amount of the research

spending goes towards drugs to help arthritis patients because of the profit

potential.

I enjoy this group,

Dave in NC

January 31, 2003

I'm glad that you enjoy this group, Dave. I find the information that you

provide very helpful. You are so well informed and contribute so much to the

group. You really are an asset. I hope you will continue sharing your

information. I assume that you are a pharmacist or are in another occupation

associated with medicine. I try to follow all the posts but miss some

sometimes. You may have mentioned your background and I missed it.

Kay

February 1, 2003

Well, this thread will probably fade away now. Seems -Glaxo, one of

the pharmaceutical companies has refused to fill orders to one

pharmaceutical supply house that supplies products to 7 internet pharmacies.

So the prescription drug cartel will probably do the same thing. Big money

is being made and the Rx cartel does not want the truth to be known. As for

some Canadian Generic Drugs costing more than their US counter parts, that

is because of a trade off with government regulations, some of the generic's

are paying a licencing fee to the original maker.

+Dave

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 27/01/2003

February 2, 2003

Dave+ said << Well, this tread will soon fade away.>>

This was just the first company to blackmail the pharmacies in Canada, others

said they would follow. They said that if they continued to send

pharmaceutical drugs to USA...they would cut off Canada supply for their

people. So much for compassion. (BTW Jean-Pierre Garnier, who is the CEO of

GlaxoKline pharmaceutical, is Great Britain's HIGHEST paid CEO.)

Dave NC, I didn't know you were involved with the pharmaceuticals. Hope you

don't take anything I say personally. Although, I can't remember you ever

saying anything to us about your employment, etc.? Sorry if you were

offended. We are eternally grateful for any scientific endeavors that are

made to improve our health. Just wish they could do it without it costing us

so much. I think they would do very well without all the advertising in

general publics magazines/TV. Just doesn't seem right.

Dave+ Thank you for your very nice prayer. It puts our lives into

perspective...so much can change in just a twinkling of an eye.

February 2, 2003

Hi all

Thanks for your kind words about the prayer.

I should be fair to the Rx Drug Companies though, they do make drugs

available to third world countries at little or no cost, so our cost does

help support programs like that. They are not all bad, but do need to be

reminded at times.

speaking of pharmaceuticals, I received the following on another list.

+Dave

For those of you who are not in North Carolina, you may not be aware of the

fact that we have suffered a tragedy of our own recently. On Wednesday

there was a massive explosion at West Pharmaceutical in Kinston, NC. They

employed 255 people and were the 10th largest employer in Kinston. Three

people died in the explosion.....2 men died in the blast itself. A woman

was pinned by a large steel beam.....firefighters followed her screams but

the flames drove them back and by the time they got to her 30 minutes later

it was too late. Over 35 people were injured and at least 15 were

hospitalized. Ten were airlifted to UNC Hospitals Jaycee Burn Center.....1

of those died on Friday from his injuries ( M. Cruiess, 22). The

numbers and severity of burns were the worst the Burn Center has seen since

they treated victims from a collision of an F-16D fighter jet and a C-130

cargo plane at Pope Aiir Force Base in 1994.

The victims at UNC received burns over as much as 70% of their bodies. They

all have second- and third-degree burns. Two patients also suffered broken

arms and the bones had jabbed through the skin; another had a severed spleen

and required surgery. All of them are on artificial respirators and some

needed drugs to help their hearts pump. Most of them are unable to

communicate, but a couple have been able to signal with hand squeezes.

The American Burn Association estimates that 6% of burn patients die, most

of them because of severe inhalation injury. The smoke in this explosion

was especially dangerous because of the rubber burning. But rescuers were

amazed that the death toll wasn't higher......one volunteer firefighter unit

chief guessed there would be 30-40.

Dead:

Lennie Faye Wilkins (50) had 2 sons, 1 daughter, 3 granchildren, a

husband (they were separated), and a new boyfriend. She was employed by

West for 17 years. She was born on Flag Day and always decorated her

yard and windows with American flags and flew a flag from a pole.

A. Gray (51) had 3 children, 3 grandchildren, and a wife. He was

employed by West for 18 years. He loved to fish and often drove to Raleigh

to watch his sone play baseball for the Shaw University Bears.

Clarence Byrd (60) was remembered by a teacher he had over 40 years

ago as a " quiet, stay-out-of-trouble " student. They met again years later

when Byrd refinished a piano for his former teacher. He looked after the

mentally disabled teenage son of the woman he lived with.

M. Cruiess (22) lived with his grandparents until a few years ago. A

neighbor remembered him as a sweet, shy boy who would hug you when he saw

you.

Victims at UNC:

Earl Fuller Jr. (29) is still called " Boo Boo " by neighbors who

watched him grow up. A neighbor said, " When he mowed his Mama's grass,

sometimes he'd do mine and I didn't even ask him. " Another said, " He

respects old folks. "

Hardison (45) has 2 daughters and a wife. A neighbors remembers

that when they moved in, Hardison welcomed them by using his tractor to plow

their yard so the could sow grass seed.

Milton A. Murrell (57), his 5 sisters, and their mother all live on the same

street. He is the handyman of the family. Murrell worked at West for at

least 15 years.

T. Xochicale (26) is a native of Ceracruz, Mexico. He had worked as

a contract cleaner at the plant for a brief time.

Sharedenna M. Ratliff (29)

W. Simien (40)

The identities of 3 victims in critical condition could not be confirmed

Friday.

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 27/01/2003

November 23, 2004

In a message dated 11/23/04 12:45:16 PM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> President Bush frequently talks about the importation of drugs from Canada

> as a safety issue. " Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes

> in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you, " he

> told the nation during this year's final presidential debate.

>

The very fact that this moron could make this statement about drugs from

Canada, and that Americans ACTUALLY buy into this b.s. is a sign that we are

getting to be one of the dumbest populations on the planet. What is Canada,

some

Fourth World backwoods republic mixing up their pharmaceuticals in a garage

somewhere? Do Americans even know that most drugs are made offshore, shipped

all

over the world, and that Canada has the very same drugs that we do. This

Theatre of the Absurd just blows my mind. Arrrggggggggh. Why didn't he just

fess up that he's trying to protect the pharmas who give him beaucoup bucks.

" Blind Reason "

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

November 23, 2004

In a message dated 11/23/04 12:45:16 PM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> President Bush frequently talks about the importation of drugs from Canada

> as a safety issue. " Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes

> in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you, " he

> told the nation during this year's final presidential debate.

>

The very fact that this moron could make this statement about drugs from

Canada, and that Americans ACTUALLY buy into this b.s. is a sign that we are

getting to be one of the dumbest populations on the planet. What is Canada,

some

Fourth World backwoods republic mixing up their pharmaceuticals in a garage

somewhere? Do Americans even know that most drugs are made offshore, shipped

all

over the world, and that Canada has the very same drugs that we do. This

Theatre of the Absurd just blows my mind. Arrrggggggggh. Why didn't he just

fess up that he's trying to protect the pharmas who give him beaucoup bucks.

" Blind Reason "

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

November 23, 2004

In a message dated 11/23/04 12:45:16 PM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> President Bush frequently talks about the importation of drugs from Canada

> as a safety issue. " Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes

> in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you, " he

> told the nation during this year's final presidential debate.

>

The very fact that this moron could make this statement about drugs from

Canada, and that Americans ACTUALLY buy into this b.s. is a sign that we are

getting to be one of the dumbest populations on the planet. What is Canada,

some

Fourth World backwoods republic mixing up their pharmaceuticals in a garage

somewhere? Do Americans even know that most drugs are made offshore, shipped

all

over the world, and that Canada has the very same drugs that we do. This

Theatre of the Absurd just blows my mind. Arrrggggggggh. Why didn't he just

fess up that he's trying to protect the pharmas who give him beaucoup bucks.

" Blind Reason "

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

November 23, 2004

In a message dated 11/23/04 12:45:16 PM Mountain Standard Time,

SSRI medications writes:

> President Bush frequently talks about the importation of drugs from Canada

> as a safety issue. " Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes

> in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you, " he

> told the nation during this year's final presidential debate.

>

The very fact that this moron could make this statement about drugs from

Canada, and that Americans ACTUALLY buy into this b.s. is a sign that we are

getting to be one of the dumbest populations on the planet. What is Canada,

some

Fourth World backwoods republic mixing up their pharmaceuticals in a garage

somewhere? Do Americans even know that most drugs are made offshore, shipped

all

over the world, and that Canada has the very same drugs that we do. This

Theatre of the Absurd just blows my mind. Arrrggggggggh. Why didn't he just

fess up that he's trying to protect the pharmas who give him beaucoup bucks.

" Blind Reason "

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

November 23, 2004

Actually, it isn't a moronic statement but appropriate to what is

going on. Drugs are a racket and not just for a few certain drug companies.

There are back yard - garage boiling pots around the world including places

such as

Pakistan, Thialand etc making copy cat drugs. They are being sold

in Canada as well as Mexico. The pharmacies there

can buy them at a small fraction of what they have to pay the drug company

and are selling them as though they are the name brand made by the

manufacturer holding the patent. There is no guarantee the drugs coming

through mail orders are what they are presented to be and frequently, are

not. There is no guarantee they are

safe at all either. I don't like the established drug companies but a

person can at least be assured they are getting that drug. That is not an

area they cheat on. People are prime to be further victimized when buying

through the mail orders.

Re: Canadian drugs

>

> In a message dated 11/23/04 12:45:16 PM Mountain Standard Time,

> SSRI medications writes:

>

>> President Bush frequently talks about the importation of drugs from

>> Canada

>> as a safety issue. " Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug

>> comes

>> in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you, "

>> he

>> told the nation during this year's final presidential debate.

>>

> The very fact that this moron could make this statement about drugs from

> Canada, and that Americans ACTUALLY buy into this b.s. is a sign that we

> are

> getting to be one of the dumbest populations on the planet. What is

> Canada, some

> Fourth World backwoods republic mixing up their pharmaceuticals in a

> garage

> somewhere? Do Americans even know that most drugs are made offshore,

> shipped all

> over the world, and that Canada has the very same drugs that we do. This

> Theatre of the Absurd just blows my mind. Arrrggggggggh. Why didn't he

> just

> fess up that he's trying to protect the pharmas who give him beaucoup

> bucks.

>

> " Blind Reason "

> a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

> Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

> Unsafe At Any Dose

>

November 23, 2004

Actually, it isn't a moronic statement but appropriate to what is

going on. Drugs are a racket and not just for a few certain drug companies.

There are back yard - garage boiling pots around the world including places

such as

Pakistan, Thialand etc making copy cat drugs. They are being sold

in Canada as well as Mexico. The pharmacies there

can buy them at a small fraction of what they have to pay the drug company

and are selling them as though they are the name brand made by the

manufacturer holding the patent. There is no guarantee the drugs coming

through mail orders are what they are presented to be and frequently, are

not. There is no guarantee they are

safe at all either. I don't like the established drug companies but a

person can at least be assured they are getting that drug. That is not an

area they cheat on. People are prime to be further victimized when buying

through the mail orders.

Re: Canadian drugs

>

> In a message dated 11/23/04 12:45:16 PM Mountain Standard Time,

> SSRI medications writes:

>

>> President Bush frequently talks about the importation of drugs from

>> Canada

>> as a safety issue. " Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug

>> comes

>> in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you, "

>> he

>> told the nation during this year's final presidential debate.

>>

> The very fact that this moron could make this statement about drugs from

> Canada, and that Americans ACTUALLY buy into this b.s. is a sign that we

> are

> getting to be one of the dumbest populations on the planet. What is

> Canada, some

> Fourth World backwoods republic mixing up their pharmaceuticals in a

> garage

> somewhere? Do Americans even know that most drugs are made offshore,

> shipped all

> over the world, and that Canada has the very same drugs that we do. This

> Theatre of the Absurd just blows my mind. Arrrggggggggh. Why didn't he

> just

> fess up that he's trying to protect the pharmas who give him beaucoup

> bucks.

>

> " Blind Reason "

> a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

> Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

> Unsafe At Any Dose

>

November 23, 2004

> Actually, it isn't a moronic statement but appropriate to what is

> going on. Drugs are a racket and not just for a few certain drug companies.

> There are back yard - garage boiling pots around the world including places

> such as

> Pakistan, Thialand etc making copy cat drugs. They are being sold

> in Canada as well as Mexico. The pharmacies there

> can buy them at a small fraction of what they have to pay the drug company

> and are selling them as though they are the name brand made by the

> manufacturer holding the patent. There is no guarantee the drugs coming

> through mail orders are what they are presented to be and frequently, are

> not. There is no guarantee they are

> safe at all either. I don't like the established drug companies but a

> person can at least be assured they are getting that drug. That is not an

> area they cheat on. People are prime to be further victimized when buying

> through the mail orders.

>

That the mail orders/online pharmacies are hinckey, I will agree. This industry

is a scourge and should be attacked with all possible force.

However. to claim that drugs sold through pharmacies in Canada are boiled

up in oil drums in some back room is simply a fantasy. Wake up, .

November 23, 2004

> Actually, it isn't a moronic statement but appropriate to what is

> going on. Drugs are a racket and not just for a few certain drug companies.

> There are back yard - garage boiling pots around the world including places

> such as

> Pakistan, Thialand etc making copy cat drugs. They are being sold

> in Canada as well as Mexico. The pharmacies there

> can buy them at a small fraction of what they have to pay the drug company

> and are selling them as though they are the name brand made by the

> manufacturer holding the patent. There is no guarantee the drugs coming

> through mail orders are what they are presented to be and frequently, are

> not. There is no guarantee they are

> safe at all either. I don't like the established drug companies but a

> person can at least be assured they are getting that drug. That is not an

> area they cheat on. People are prime to be further victimized when buying

> through the mail orders.

>

That the mail orders/online pharmacies are hinckey, I will agree. This industry

is a scourge and should be attacked with all possible force.

However. to claim that drugs sold through pharmacies in Canada are boiled

up in oil drums in some back room is simply a fantasy. Wake up, .

November 24, 2004

You need to wake up Niles, clear your glasses and reread what I wrote. I

did not say all drugs sold in Canada are bootlegged - I said some are. And I

stated a person has no guarantee of which he is getting because of the lack

of regulation in other countries.

You are in a dream world if you do not yet comprehend how much bootlegging

goes on or how many drugs ARE produced in unlicensed, illegal labs - oil

drums, bathtubs, etc. Do you dispute it goes on with blue jeans, movies,

electronics? Name brand sells. Trademark, copywrite, and patent violations

are a big issue in the international market we now live in. And the

overregulation of companies in this country is another. Do you honestly

think that no one is producing these drugs illegally, violating patent laws?

Do you honestly think OSHA inspects all the labs or that you can be assured

you are getting what you believe you are getting if you buy outside of this

country? Do you honestly think the labs making illegal drugs such as meth,

heroine and cocaine only make the " illegal " drugs? Xanax and Paxil are

popular street drugs. Go look at buying them on line and get a view of the

online pharmacies before you dispute me back.

Drug companies are only part of the story - they supply a product that meets

a demand. They have made so much money because people want pills to solve

their problems and they will stick anything in their mouth. In fact, it is

usually what people have stuck in their mouths that creates the need for the

drugs in the first place. Don't be naive to think that a few particular

drug companies are the only ones who are taking advantage of our own

irresponsibility and going for the big bucks to be made.

Re: Canadian drugs

>

>> Actually, it isn't a moronic statement but appropriate to what is

>> going on. Drugs are a racket and not just for a few certain drug

>> companies.

>> There are back yard - garage boiling pots around the world including

>> places

>> such as

>> Pakistan, Thialand etc making copy cat drugs. They are being sold

>> in Canada as well as Mexico. The pharmacies there

>> can buy them at a small fraction of what they have to pay the drug

>> company

>> and are selling them as though they are the name brand made by the

>> manufacturer holding the patent. There is no guarantee the drugs coming

>> through mail orders are what they are presented to be and frequently, are

>> not. There is no guarantee they are

>> safe at all either. I don't like the established drug companies but a

>> person can at least be assured they are getting that drug. That is not an

>> area they cheat on. People are prime to be further victimized when

>> buying

>> through the mail orders.

>>

>

> That the mail orders/online pharmacies are hinckey, I will agree. This

> industry

> is a scourge and should be attacked with all possible force.

> However. to claim that drugs sold through pharmacies in Canada are boiled

> up in oil drums in some back room is simply a fantasy. Wake up, .

>

November 24, 2004