Re: OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

[Guest guest]

Good for FHA, glad to hear it. However, FreddieMAC and FannieMAe were largely

to blame for the housing debacle and it seems to me Barney and many other

politicians got off scott free. You cannot say one walk of life is a bunch of

crooks and another is pure as the wind driven snow. It's human nature no matter

what industry you are in, should politicians be held accountable more so than a

bunch of corporate board members, one would think so with elections but so much

is " pat my back I'll pat yours " and if the media doesn't expose the light of day

at the real crooks, these people never get voted out.

Sue

---- Evanesce@... wrote:

> I totally understand that comment. But you know what. I also don't

> trust corporate America to do it.

>

> Having worked for large corps and looked at their financials, it's clear

> that their nature is to grow & keep the largess with the top echelon. I

> can guarantee that corporations will not have our best interest in

> mind. Even the insurance companies work that way.

>

> Lets look at the Department of Housing and Urban Development, for

> example. They provide mortgage insurance to protect private lenders

> against risk of default. Did you know... they are completely self

> sustaining? They are. That's what FHA financing is. Their funding is

> not from the tax payer, but rather from premiums for the mortgages they

> insure. They run a break-even operation. AND they survived during the

> housing debacle because they did not permit risky mortgages that other

> lenders were making.

>

> Now personally, I believe that crooks and crooked deals will happen in

> both government and corporate scenarios. Truly do. But if it happens

> in the government, maybe we will have more recourse than if it happens

> in public corporations. For example, all those executives at the top of

> those mortgage companies got off scott free! A few got fired, but many

> should have been jailed for the mess they caused. Unfortunately with a

> government run plan, we will always those who allow Haliburton deals, etc.

>

> semrick@... wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I don't disagree that reform is needed, I just don't trust the

> > government to do it.

> >

> > Sue

> > -

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry about your wrist.

What about TORT reform, aren't many of the test ordered so that the doctor's can

cover their backsides because of lawsuits? I don't hear any mention of the

$$$$$$ lawyers make running around chasing ambulances.

Sue

---- Beckman <beckman5@...> wrote:

> The fraud in Medicare is not on the part of the govt but in the part

> if the doctors. It is not going bankrupt though it does overspend

> because doctors order too many tests, etc. Again, I wish those that

> were on traditional Medicare (not Medicare Advantage) would speak out

> about their experiences. Medicare and Medicaid are too entirely

> different programs, run entirely differently. Medicaid is basically

> run by the states. And I know the government can be fraudulent, and I

> have o great trust in politicians.

>

>

> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:26 AM, rbarna dejazzd.com wrote:

>

> >

> > Also remember that if the proposed health care system is changed,

> > ALL of us are going to see changes, even those who are currently

> > receiving " good " care from Medicare and Medicaid.

> >

> > Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> > rheumatic

> > Cc: Beckman

> >

> > > Isn't Medicare and Medicaid going bankrupt? Isn't there a lot of

> > fraud in both of these plans? I believe I read something to that

> > effect not to long ago, it was 4 to 5 % which doesn't sound like

> > much but it was in the billions of dollars. Also I think Medicare/

> > caid have contributed to the out of control healthcare prices. I'm

> > just sayin', if the government could run these two programs (or any

> > of their programs for that matter) soundly then I would be more apt

> > to believe this pie in the sky wonder healthcare they are going to

> > provide us for " free " .<BR><BR>> Sue

> > > ---- Beckman net> wrote:

> > > > You would not be dealing with the government under the bills now

> > being

> > > > discussed or under (single payer). Under some call Obamacare,

> > there

> > > > would be perhaps some small regulation of insurance companies

> > (no pre-

> > > > existing conditions ruled out, if we are lucky). I now often sit

> > on

> > > > the phone with my insurance company (but it's secondary to

> > Medicare,

> > > > than God). I never need to speak to Medicare because my bills

> > get paid

> > > > so smoothly. Those of us on Medicare and SS know that they are

> > > > wonderful though they are not perfect. I shudder to think what

> > life

> > > > would be like without them. I'd like those of you on this list

> > that

> > > > have traditional Medicare to speak out about how you feel about

> > it!

> > > >

> > > > Traditional Medicare IS single payer (when it is not a Medicare

> > > > Advantage Plan run by an insurance company), and, as so many of us

> > > > know, we choose our own doctors and they make our medical

> > decisions.

> > > > We won't be getting Medicare For All, however (that would be HR

> > 676, a

> > > > bill that is being pushed by Rep Kucinich and which would be

> > great for

> > > > us). Instead the for-profit insurance industry will remain in

> > control

> > > > for the most part. There may be a public option, but that's not

> > yet

> > > > spelled out. If we got it, it could be like Medicare, but more

> > likely

> > > > will be a choice that those of us that can afford private

> > insurance

> > > > will not want to make because it is likely to be weak--but it will

> > > > not control our bodies and our lives.

> > > >

> > > > Don't let yourselves believe this kind of demagoguery!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Jul 25, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Carolflocomcast (DOT) > net wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most

> > > > > educated and informed ladies I have ever met.

> > > > >

> > > > > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is

> > > > > disastorus !

> > > > >

> > > > > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and

> > OUR

> > > > > lives.

> > > > >

> > > > > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare,

> > > > > Fanny Mae, FEMA, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government

> > > > > makes socialistic decisions.

> > > > >

> > > > > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a

> > > > > large part of the uninsured paid through

> > > > >

> > > > > higher taxes.

> > > > >

> > > > > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide

> > that who

> > > > > gets treatment ......... no way!

> > > > >

> > > > > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any

> > > > > reason ? Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make

> > > > > attempts to stra ighten out a problem with your healthcare

> > service?

> > > > > If you think dealing with insurance companies are bad then you

> > are

> > > > > in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed !

> > > > >

> > > > > My opinion-

> > > > >

> > > > > Carol* from ville, Florida

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Where is that in the Constitution, remember the Constitution?

Good for you, you got excellent care while travelling abroad, now you know how

illegal immigrants are treated in our country. No burden on the tax payers

there.

So why didn't you stay there, why did you come back to this God awful country if

it was such utopia elsewhere. Funny I don't recall people leaving this country

in droves, seems people are trying to get in though.

Sue

---- Rhonda Goebel <rhondagoebel@...> wrote:

> I traveled throughout Venezuela last November and was surprised to see what an

excellent & fair health care system this poor country had, for everyone..  And

if I required medical attention, as a 'foreigner', I would have received free

healthcare, anything from a fever to a heart attack.  Same with education.  I

could have enrolled & gotten an excellent education, a PhD, for free, as a

'foreigner'.

>  

> If roads & libraries can be provided for everyone, health care should be an

easy one.  So many more progressive countries would cover a US citizen's

medical problem while in their country.  Why can't we see health care is a

basic human right, for everyone?

>  

> If our corporate puppet leaders would stop wasting our money on corporate

wars, we'd have no problem providing health care, and have a more peaceful

world. 

>

>

> > I am on a government run health plan and I have no problems with it. I get

pretty darn good care. Unlike with the insurance companies with which I had to

deal while employed. I broke a hip and if I did not have the government plan I

could not have paid for this 35,000 dollar hip. I would have lost my home and

everything else that I had worked for in order to have a hip. In which case I

would have probably been better off dead. I have no qualms with Medicare. Right

now the Insurance companies and the big pharma's and the medical field in

general have control over you. Refuse what a doctor suggests for you and watch

how fast you will be sent a letter of dismissal. Try to get an insurance company

to pay for your MINOCIN for arthritis then scream about health reform in this

country. Ever wonder why so many of your doctors are foreign. I am sure it is

not because they love this country and want to practice medicine. Most come here

for the almighty dollar.

> > Health Reform is exactly what we need. It is just too bad that the likes of

the Nut cases we have in Congress will get to do the bill. I would have trusted

Obama to make the plan long before I would have Congress. Congress is more

interested in lining their pockets than anything else. You want health reform

then stop paying the insurance companies and head for the emergency rooms. When

the insurance companies are not making BILLIONS in profit watch how little

attention they pay to reform. You complain about the banks and the bailout then

go take your money out of the banks and then they can go under for their

fraudulent ways without taxpayer bailouts. Your future is in your hands once you

get BIG BUSINESS out of the way.

> > Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

informed ladies I have ever met.

> >

> > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus !

> >

> > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives.

> >

> > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

FEMA, etc.

> >

> > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes socialistic

decisions.

> >

> > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part of

the uninsured paid through

> >

> > higher taxes.

> >

> > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

treatment ......... no way!

> >

> > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?

Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten out a

problem with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with insurance

companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed

!

> >

> > My opinion-

> >

> > Carol* from ville, Florida

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I agree, it should be read before being voted on....that doesn't seem to be

asking to much.

Sue

---- " rbarna dejazzd.com " <rbarna@...> wrote:

>

> Just to let everyone know that I called my Congressman about this proposed

health care " reform " .

>

> My Congressman is AGAINST the proposed reform. He indicated to me that he is

concerned that people will no longer be able to get the services, coverage they

have now....eventually we will be calling our Congress reprsentatives in

Washington about not getting what we need.

>

> My Congressman is in our camp and is concerned that people will not be able to

get what they NEED. So look at everything before we agree or disagree. At this

time WE do not have ALL of the information that is being proposed.

>

> We need to demand that ALL of the facts are known before our representatives

vote. If we sit here and complain but don't call our representatives to voice

our opinions and concerns, our silence indicates approval.

>

> Just my thoughts...

> Roni

>

> Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> > > rheumatic@grou> ps.com

> > > Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 6:45 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

informed ladies I have ever met.

> > >

> > > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus

!

> > >

> > > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives.

> > >

> > > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

FEMA, etc.

> > >

> > > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes

socialistic decisions.

> > >

> > > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part

of the uninsured paid through

> > >

> > > higher taxes.

> > >

> > > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

treatment ......... no way!

> > >

> > > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?

Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten out a

problem with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with insurance

companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed

!

> > >

> > > My opinion-

> > >

> > > Carol* from ville, Florida

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Read Dr. Atul Gawande's arrticle about health costs in the New Yorker,

a few issues back. The problem is less malpractice fears than

physician greed (though of course some doctors are great). Sure,

lawyers are greedy to. And politicians that almost all take money

from insurance lobbyists. We live in a society ruled by greed at the

moment.

On Jul 25, 2009, at 11:33 AM, <semrick@...>

<semrick@...> wrote:

> I'm sorry about your wrist.

>

> What about TORT reform, aren't many of the test ordered so that the

> doctor's can cover their backsides because of lawsuits? I don't hear

> any mention of the $$$$$$ lawyers make running around chasing

> ambulances.

>

> Sue

> ---- Beckman <beckman5@...> wrote:

> > The fraud in Medicare is not on the part of the govt but in the part

> > if the doctors. It is not going bankrupt though it does overspend

> > because doctors order too many tests, etc. Again, I wish those that

> > were on traditional Medicare (not Medicare Advantage) would speak

> out

> > about their experiences. Medicare and Medicaid are too entirely

> > different programs, run entirely differently. Medicaid is basically

> > run by the states. And I know the government can be fraudulent,

> and I

> > have o great trust in politicians.

> >

> >

> > On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:26 AM, rbarna dejazzd.com wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Also remember that if the proposed health care system is changed,

> > > ALL of us are going to see changes, even those who are currently

> > > receiving " good " care from Medicare and Medicaid.

> > >

> > > Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> > > rheumatic

> > > Cc: Beckman

> > >

> > > > Isn't Medicare and Medicaid going bankrupt? Isn't there a lot of

> > > fraud in both of these plans? I believe I read something to that

> > > effect not to long ago, it was 4 to 5 % which doesn't sound like

> > > much but it was in the billions of dollars. Also I think Medicare/

> > > caid have contributed to the out of control healthcare prices. I'm

> > > just sayin', if the government could run these two programs (or

> any

> > > of their programs for that matter) soundly then I would be more

> apt

> > > to believe this pie in the sky wonder healthcare they are going to

> > > provide us for " free " .<BR><BR>> Sue

> > > > ---- Beckman net> wrote:

> > > > > You would not be dealing with the government under the bills

> now

> > > being

> > > > > discussed or under (single payer). Under some call Obamacare,

> > > there

> > > > > would be perhaps some small regulation of insurance companies

> > > (no pre-

> > > > > existing conditions ruled out, if we are lucky). I now often

> sit

> > > on

> > > > > the phone with my insurance company (but it's secondary to

> > > Medicare,

> > > > > than God). I never need to speak to Medicare because my bills

> > > get paid

> > > > > so smoothly. Those of us on Medicare and SS know that they are

> > > > > wonderful though they are not perfect. I shudder to think what

> > > life

> > > > > would be like without them. I'd like those of you on this list

> > > that

> > > > > have traditional Medicare to speak out about how you feel

> about

> > > it!

> > > > >

> > > > > Traditional Medicare IS single payer (when it is not a

> Medicare

> > > > > Advantage Plan run by an insurance company), and, as so many

> of us

> > > > > know, we choose our own doctors and they make our medical

> > > decisions.

> > > > > We won't be getting Medicare For All, however (that would be

> HR

> > > 676, a

> > > > > bill that is being pushed by Rep Kucinich and which would be

> > > great for

> > > > > us). Instead the for-profit insurance industry will remain in

> > > control

> > > > > for the most part. There may be a public option, but that's

> not

> > > yet

> > > > > spelled out. If we got it, it could be like Medicare, but more

> > > likely

> > > > > will be a choice that those of us that can afford private

> > > insurance

> > > > > will not want to make because it is likely to be weak--but

> it will

> > > > > not control our bodies and our lives.

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't let yourselves believe this kind of demagoguery!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On Jul 25, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Carolflocomcast (DOT) > net wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the

> most

> > > > > > educated and informed ladies I have ever met.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each

> American is

> > > > > > disastorus !

> > > > > >

> > > > > > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies

> and

> > > OUR

> > > > > > lives.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS,

> Medicare,

> > > > > > Fanny Mae, FEMA, etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government

> > > > > > makes socialistic decisions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group

> is a

> > > > > > large part of the uninsured paid through

> > > > > >

> > > > > > higher taxes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide

> > > that who

> > > > > > gets treatment ......... no way!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for

> any

> > > > > > reason ? Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make

> > > > > > attempts to stra ighten out a problem with your healthcare

> > > service?

> > > > > > If you think dealing with insurance companies are bad then

> you

> > > are

> > > > > > in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed !

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My opinion-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Carol* from ville, Florida

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I am so glad to see the interest in this issue. I think it's beneficial to

share and discuss.

Sue, I just had to weigh in on your question about Tort reform. It occurred

to me when I read it that perhaps the doctor's order tests because they are

quicker to look at and diagnose (albeit incorrectly more often then not)

then to take the time to sit with the patient and ask all the necessary

questions to make a diagnosis otherwise. I think they are 'allowed' eight

minutes per patient by the insurance dictators. Just a thought!

I have no trust in the political system on the Hill. I think a congressman

or senator may start out thinking one way but he is soon schooled in how to

act, vote, etc. by those with seniority. It's time to clean house and to

keep cleaning it until our representatives learn we the people ARE the

ultimate boss --- unless we continue to sit back and trust them to tell us

what's really best for us. I'd prefer to make that decision myself. And if

I make a few bad ones, so what, it's all an opportunity for me to grow and

learn. Peace, El

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

Of semrick@...

Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 11:34 AM

rheumatic

Cc: Beckman

Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

I'm sorry about your wrist.

What about TORT reform, aren't many of the test ordered so that the doctor's

can cover their backsides because of lawsuits? I don't hear any mention of

the $$$$$$ lawyers make running around chasing ambulances.

Sue

---- Beckman <beckman5verizon (DOT) <mailto:beckman5%40verizon.net> net>

wrote:

> The fraud in Medicare is not on the part of the govt but in the part

> if the doctors. It is not going bankrupt though it does overspend

> because doctors order too many tests, etc. Again, I wish those that

> were on traditional Medicare (not Medicare Advantage) would speak out

> about their experiences. Medicare and Medicaid are too entirely

> different programs, run entirely differently. Medicaid is basically

> run by the states. And I know the government can be fraudulent, and I

> have o great trust in politicians.

>

>

> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:26 AM, rbarna dejazzd.com wrote:

>

> >

> > Also remember that if the proposed health care system is changed,

> > ALL of us are going to see changes, even those who are currently

> > receiving " good " care from Medicare and Medicaid.

> >

> > Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> > rheumatic@grou <mailto:rheumatic%40> ps.com

> > Cc: Beckman

> >

> > > Isn't Medicare and Medicaid going bankrupt? Isn't there a lot of

> > fraud in both of these plans? I believe I read something to that

> > effect not to long ago, it was 4 to 5 % which doesn't sound like

> > much but it was in the billions of dollars. Also I think Medicare/

> > caid have contributed to the out of control healthcare prices. I'm

> > just sayin', if the government could run these two programs (or any

> > of their programs for that matter) soundly then I would be more apt

> > to believe this pie in the sky wonder healthcare they are going to

> > provide us for " free " .<BR><BR>> Sue

> > > ---- Beckman net> wrote:

> > > > You would not be dealing with the government under the bills now

> > being

> > > > discussed or under (single payer). Under some call Obamacare,

> > there

> > > > would be perhaps some small regulation of insurance companies

> > (no pre-

> > > > existing conditions ruled out, if we are lucky). I now often sit

> > on

> > > > the phone with my insurance company (but it's secondary to

> > Medicare,

> > > > than God). I never need to speak to Medicare because my bills

> > get paid

> > > > so smoothly. Those of us on Medicare and SS know that they are

> > > > wonderful though they are not perfect. I shudder to think what

> > life

> > > > would be like without them. I'd like those of you on this list

> > that

> > > > have traditional Medicare to speak out about how you feel about

> > it!

> > > >

> > > > Traditional Medicare IS single payer (when it is not a Medicare

> > > > Advantage Plan run by an insurance company), and, as so many of us

> > > > know, we choose our own doctors and they make our medical

> > decisions.

> > > > We won't be getting Medicare For All, however (that would be HR

> > 676, a

> > > > bill that is being pushed by Rep Kucinich and which would be

> > great for

> > > > us). Instead the for-profit insurance industry will remain in

> > control

> > > > for the most part. There may be a public option, but that's not

> > yet

> > > > spelled out. If we got it, it could be like Medicare, but more

> > likely

> > > > will be a choice that those of us that can afford private

> > insurance

> > > > will not want to make because it is likely to be weak--but it will

> > > > not control our bodies and our lives.

> > > >

> > > > Don't let yourselves believe this kind of demagoguery!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Jul 25, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Carolflocomcast (DOT) > net wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most

> > > > > educated and informed ladies I have ever met.

> > > > >

> > > > > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is

> > > > > disastorus !

> > > > >

> > > > > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and

> > OUR

> > > > > lives.

> > > > >

> > > > > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare,

> > > > > Fanny Mae, FEMA, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government

> > > > > makes socialistic decisions.

> > > > >

> > > > > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a

> > > > > large part of the uninsured paid through

> > > > >

> > > > > higher taxes.

> > > > >

> > > > > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide

> > that who

> > > > > gets treatment ......... no way!

> > > > >

> > > > > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any

> > > > > reason ? Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make

> > > > > attempts to stra ighten out a problem with your healthcare

> > service?

> > > > > If you think dealing with insurance companies are bad then you

> > are

> > > > > in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed !

> > > > >

> > > > > My opinion-

> > > > >

> > > > > Carol* from ville, Florida

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Sadly, I agree with that!

Sue

---- Beckman <beckman5@...> wrote:

> Read Dr. Atul Gawande's arrticle about health costs in the New Yorker,

> a few issues back. The problem is less malpractice fears than

> physician greed (though of course some doctors are great). Sure,

> lawyers are greedy to. And politicians that almost all take money

> from insurance lobbyists. We live in a society ruled by greed at the

> moment.

>

>

>

> On Jul 25, 2009, at 11:33 AM, <semrick@...>

> <semrick@...> wrote:

>

> > I'm sorry about your wrist.

> >

> > What about TORT reform, aren't many of the test ordered so that the

> > doctor's can cover their backsides because of lawsuits? I don't hear

> > any mention of the $$$$$$ lawyers make running around chasing

> > ambulances.

> >

> > Sue

> > ---- Beckman <beckman5@...> wrote:

> > > The fraud in Medicare is not on the part of the govt but in the part

> > > if the doctors. It is not going bankrupt though it does overspend

> > > because doctors order too many tests, etc. Again, I wish those that

> > > were on traditional Medicare (not Medicare Advantage) would speak

> > out

> > > about their experiences. Medicare and Medicaid are too entirely

> > > different programs, run entirely differently. Medicaid is basically

> > > run by the states. And I know the government can be fraudulent,

> > and I

> > > have o great trust in politicians.

> > >

> > >

> > > On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:26 AM, rbarna dejazzd.com wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Also remember that if the proposed health care system is changed,

> > > > ALL of us are going to see changes, even those who are currently

> > > > receiving " good " care from Medicare and Medicaid.

> > > >

> > > > Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> > > > rheumatic

> > > > Cc: Beckman

> > > >

> > > > > Isn't Medicare and Medicaid going bankrupt? Isn't there a lot of

> > > > fraud in both of these plans? I believe I read something to that

> > > > effect not to long ago, it was 4 to 5 % which doesn't sound like

> > > > much but it was in the billions of dollars. Also I think Medicare/

> > > > caid have contributed to the out of control healthcare prices. I'm

> > > > just sayin', if the government could run these two programs (or

> > any

> > > > of their programs for that matter) soundly then I would be more

> > apt

> > > > to believe this pie in the sky wonder healthcare they are going to

> > > > provide us for " free " .<BR><BR>> Sue

> > > > > ---- Beckman net> wrote:

> > > > > > You would not be dealing with the government under the bills

> > now

> > > > being

> > > > > > discussed or under (single payer). Under some call Obamacare,

> > > > there

> > > > > > would be perhaps some small regulation of insurance companies

> > > > (no pre-

> > > > > > existing conditions ruled out, if we are lucky). I now often

> > sit

> > > > on

> > > > > > the phone with my insurance company (but it's secondary to

> > > > Medicare,

> > > > > > than God). I never need to speak to Medicare because my bills

> > > > get paid

> > > > > > so smoothly. Those of us on Medicare and SS know that they are

> > > > > > wonderful though they are not perfect. I shudder to think what

> > > > life

> > > > > > would be like without them. I'd like those of you on this list

> > > > that

> > > > > > have traditional Medicare to speak out about how you feel

> > about

> > > > it!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Traditional Medicare IS single payer (when it is not a

> > Medicare

> > > > > > Advantage Plan run by an insurance company), and, as so many

> > of us

> > > > > > know, we choose our own doctors and they make our medical

> > > > decisions.

> > > > > > We won't be getting Medicare For All, however (that would be

> > HR

> > > > 676, a

> > > > > > bill that is being pushed by Rep Kucinich and which would be

> > > > great for

> > > > > > us). Instead the for-profit insurance industry will remain in

> > > > control

> > > > > > for the most part. There may be a public option, but that's

> > not

> > > > yet

> > > > > > spelled out. If we got it, it could be like Medicare, but more

> > > > likely

> > > > > > will be a choice that those of us that can afford private

> > > > insurance

> > > > > > will not want to make because it is likely to be weak--but

> > it will

> > > > > > not control our bodies and our lives.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Don't let yourselves believe this kind of demagoguery!

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On Jul 25, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Carolflocomcast (DOT) > net wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the

> > most

> > > > > > > educated and informed ladies I have ever met.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each

> > American is

> > > > > > > disastorus !

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies

> > and

> > > > OUR

> > > > > > > lives.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS,

> > Medicare,

> > > > > > > Fanny Mae, FEMA, etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government

> > > > > > > makes socialistic decisions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group

> > is a

> > > > > > > large part of the uninsured paid through

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > higher taxes.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide

> > > > that who

> > > > > > > gets treatment ......... no way!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for

> > any

> > > > > > > reason ? Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make

> > > > > > > attempts to stra ighten out a problem with your healthcare

> > > > service?

> > > > > > > If you think dealing with insurance companies are bad then

> > you

> > > > are

> > > > > > > in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed !

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My opinion-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Carol* from ville, Florida

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I agree with everything you said in the second paragraph.

As far as tests, doctors and lawyers, I'm sure a little of both are true. To

many tests to cover their a#$, some out of necessity and some....just because.

I still feel that tort reform shouldn't be off the table when it comes to the

healthcare debate.

Sue

---- ehgooding <ehgooding@...> wrote:

> I am so glad to see the interest in this issue. I think it's beneficial to

> share and discuss.

>

>

>

> Sue, I just had to weigh in on your question about Tort reform. It occurred

> to me when I read it that perhaps the doctor's order tests because they are

> quicker to look at and diagnose (albeit incorrectly more often then not)

> then to take the time to sit with the patient and ask all the necessary

> questions to make a diagnosis otherwise. I think they are 'allowed' eight

> minutes per patient by the insurance dictators. Just a thought!

>

>

>

> I have no trust in the political system on the Hill. I think a congressman

> or senator may start out thinking one way but he is soon schooled in how to

> act, vote, etc. by those with seniority. It's time to clean house and to

> keep cleaning it until our representatives learn we the people ARE the

> ultimate boss --- unless we continue to sit back and trust them to tell us

> what's really best for us. I'd prefer to make that decision myself. And if

> I make a few bad ones, so what, it's all an opportunity for me to grow and

> learn. Peace, El

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

> Of semrick@...

> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 11:34 AM

> rheumatic

> Cc: Beckman

> Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm sorry about your wrist.

>

> What about TORT reform, aren't many of the test ordered so that the doctor's

> can cover their backsides because of lawsuits? I don't hear any mention of

> the $$$$$$ lawyers make running around chasing ambulances.

>

> Sue

> ---- Beckman <beckman5verizon (DOT) <mailto:beckman5%40verizon.net> net>

> wrote:

> > The fraud in Medicare is not on the part of the govt but in the part

> > if the doctors. It is not going bankrupt though it does overspend

> > because doctors order too many tests, etc. Again, I wish those that

> > were on traditional Medicare (not Medicare Advantage) would speak out

> > about their experiences. Medicare and Medicaid are too entirely

> > different programs, run entirely differently. Medicaid is basically

> > run by the states. And I know the government can be fraudulent, and I

> > have o great trust in politicians.

> >

> >

> > On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:26 AM, rbarna dejazzd.com wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Also remember that if the proposed health care system is changed,

> > > ALL of us are going to see changes, even those who are currently

> > > receiving " good " care from Medicare and Medicaid.

> > >

> > > Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> > > rheumatic@grou <mailto:rheumatic%40> ps.com

> > > Cc: Beckman

> > >

> > > > Isn't Medicare and Medicaid going bankrupt? Isn't there a lot of

> > > fraud in both of these plans? I believe I read something to that

> > > effect not to long ago, it was 4 to 5 % which doesn't sound like

> > > much but it was in the billions of dollars. Also I think Medicare/

> > > caid have contributed to the out of control healthcare prices. I'm

> > > just sayin', if the government could run these two programs (or any

> > > of their programs for that matter) soundly then I would be more apt

> > > to believe this pie in the sky wonder healthcare they are going to

> > > provide us for " free " .<BR><BR>> Sue

> > > > ---- Beckman net> wrote:

> > > > > You would not be dealing with the government under the bills now

> > > being

> > > > > discussed or under (single payer). Under some call Obamacare,

> > > there

> > > > > would be perhaps some small regulation of insurance companies

> > > (no pre-

> > > > > existing conditions ruled out, if we are lucky). I now often sit

> > > on

> > > > > the phone with my insurance company (but it's secondary to

> > > Medicare,

> > > > > than God). I never need to speak to Medicare because my bills

> > > get paid

> > > > > so smoothly. Those of us on Medicare and SS know that they are

> > > > > wonderful though they are not perfect. I shudder to think what

> > > life

> > > > > would be like without them. I'd like those of you on this list

> > > that

> > > > > have traditional Medicare to speak out about how you feel about

> > > it!

> > > > >

> > > > > Traditional Medicare IS single payer (when it is not a Medicare

> > > > > Advantage Plan run by an insurance company), and, as so many of us

> > > > > know, we choose our own doctors and they make our medical

> > > decisions.

> > > > > We won't be getting Medicare For All, however (that would be HR

> > > 676, a

> > > > > bill that is being pushed by Rep Kucinich and which would be

> > > great for

> > > > > us). Instead the for-profit insurance industry will remain in

> > > control

> > > > > for the most part. There may be a public option, but that's not

> > > yet

> > > > > spelled out. If we got it, it could be like Medicare, but more

> > > likely

> > > > > will be a choice that those of us that can afford private

> > > insurance

> > > > > will not want to make because it is likely to be weak--but it will

> > > > > not control our bodies and our lives.

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't let yourselves believe this kind of demagoguery!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On Jul 25, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Carolflocomcast (DOT) > net wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most

> > > > > > educated and informed ladies I have ever met.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is

> > > > > > disastorus !

> > > > > >

> > > > > > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and

> > > OUR

> > > > > > lives.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare,

> > > > > > Fanny Mae, FEMA, etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government

> > > > > > makes socialistic decisions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a

> > > > > > large part of the uninsured paid through

> > > > > >

> > > > > > higher taxes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide

> > > that who

> > > > > > gets treatment ......... no way!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any

> > > > > > reason ? Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make

> > > > > > attempts to stra ighten out a problem with your healthcare

> > > service?

> > > > > > If you think dealing with insurance companies are bad then you

> > > are

> > > > > > in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed !

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My opinion-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Carol* from ville, Florida

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Cairns for The New York Times

Reading this confirmed my belief that unnecessary tests and procedures

are caused mostly by greedy drs.

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By GARDINER HARRIS

Published: July 24, 2009 NY Times

COOPERSTOWN, N.Y. — Visiting the Cleveland Clinic this week,President

Obama held up that well-known hospital as a model for the rest of the

country. But for most of the nation’s nearly 6,000hospitals, copying

the Cleveland Clinic would be like asking the Durham Bulls, a minor

league team, to copy the New York Yankees.

The Work-Up

Doctors on Salary

Articles in this series are analyzing the economic and financial

issues at the heart of the health care debate in Washington.

Related

Democrats’ Divide Fuels Turmoil on Health Care (July 25, 2009)

The Work-Up: More Cost Cuts Sought From Drug Industry (July 23, 2009)

The Work-Up: Costly Drugs Known as Biologics Prompt Exclusivity Debate

(July 22, 2009)

Times Topics: Health Care Reform

A more accessible example is a hospital that sits a bit more than a

home-run blast from the Baseball Hall of Fame here. Called Bassett

Healthcare, this modest hospital of 180 beds delivers high-quality

care at low costs in the face of federal reimbursement policies that

discourage many of its best practices.

Changing those policies is crucial to the success of health care

reform, economists say — something Mr. Obama said that he would do.

“Our proposals would change incentives so that doctors and nurses

finally are free to give patients the best care, not just the most

expensive care,” the president said Thursday in Ohio.

But almost nothing in proposed legislation that has so far emerged in

Congress would encourage the creation of similar hospitals.

Bassett looks like a small liberal arts college, with ivy-covered

fieldstone buildings connected by a warren of passageways. But what

really sets it apart is the way the system pays its 260 doctors.

Doctors in the United States are usually paid fees for each service

they provide. The more procedures and tests they order, the more money

they pocket. There is widespread agreement among health policy

analysts that many of these procedures are unnecessary, raising costs

in ways that often do nothing to improve patient health.

By contrast, Bassett — like the Cleveland Clinic and a small number of

other health systems in this country — pays salaries to all of its

doctors. No matter how many tests or procedures are performed, they

take home the same amount of money. Medical costs at Bassett are lower

than those at 90 percent of the hospitals in New York, while the

quality of care ranks among the top 10 percent in the nation, surveys

show.

Dr. F. Streck, the longtime president of Bassett, said the

hospital paid salaries that were competitive with the money earned in

a fee-for-service setting. Some fee-dependent physicians, though,

either by working hard or by providing excessive treatments, can make

more, an ability doctors trade associations have long defended.

“Everyone knows that the Bassett model is the right model,” said

Senator E. Schumer, a New York Democrat involved in

negotiations over health care legislation. “The question is, How do

you get from here to there?”

It is a question that has plagued lawmakers and medical experts for

nearly a century. As early as 1910, Abraham Flexner wrote a landmark

report that argued teaching hospitals should be staffed only with

salaried doctors. In 1970, the Carnegie Commission released a report

calling for drastic improvements in rural health care, and highlighted

Bassett as a model.

Many doctors who work at Bassett believe deeply in its mission.

Bassett has opened 13 clinics in schools around the region. The

clinics lose money, but Bassett is considering opening 14 more.

“I was in private practice for years in New Mexico,” said Dr. Philip

A. Heavner, the chief ofpediatrics at Bassett, “and there was no

interest in doing anything like this because people thought it would

take volume away from their practices.”

Dr. Randall Zuckerman, an attending surgeon at the Hospital of St.

Raphael in New Haven, left Bassett a year ago because his wife wanted

their four children to grow up closer to family. Since many of his

patients see fee-dependent doctors, Dr. Zuckerman said in an

interview, their care is more disjointed than was common at Bassett.

“They get a lot of different consultations, some necessary and some

not,” he said. “They are always missing parts of their medical records

because the information is coming from multiple private offices.”

Griffiths, 41, of Edmeston found a lump on her breast six

years ago. Duringcancer care at Bassett, Ms. Griffiths’s appointments

to see her oncologist and primary care doctor are often scheduled on

the same day. One doctor will sometimes accompany her during a

procedure performed by another, and each has her complete medical

history.

“The communication amongst all of my doctors is impressive,” said Ms.

Griffiths, who works as a database administrator for the insurance

company New York Central Mutual. “They always call each other or shoot

each other e-mails.”

Such coordinated care is a hallmark of integrated health systems with

salaried doctors, like Kaiser Permanente, the Mayo Clinic, the

Veterans Administration and the Cleveland Clinic. In each system,

medical records are electronic, so doctors have quick access to

patients’ entire histories, including X-rays and prescriptions. And

doctors often treat patients in interdisciplinary teams where

coordination is encouraged since no one loses money by passing a

patient to a colleague.

But for some, wages are not enough. Dr. J. Stauffer, a

gastroenterologist in ville, Ga., left Bassett 10 years ago. He

has four children, including two of college age.

“To provide for my family, I felt I needed to be reimbursed on a fee-

for-service model,” Dr. Stauffer said. “I make three to four times

what I was making there, although I don’t know what my salary at

Bassett would be now.”

Dr. Stauffer would not reveal his pay. A recent national survey found

that gastroenterologists earned $457,000 on average, with the top 10

percent making $715,600.

For decades, powerful doctors groups like the American Medical

Association opposed efforts to change fee-for-service pay systems. And

the culture of medicine has been entrepreneurial, with doctors saying

they wanted to be their own bosses.

“Medicine is the last cottage industry,” said Dr. Jordan Cohen,

president emeritus of the Association of American Medical Colleges.

Even without legislation, much of this is changing. The share of

doctors in one- or two-physician practices dropped to 33 percent in

2005, from 41 percent in 1997, according to the Center for Studying

Health System Change. Just 10 percent of doctors in their early 40s

work in one- or two-doctor practices, compared with 38 percent of

those 60 and older.

Whether these trends will encourage the creation of more hospitals

like Bassett is uncertain. Legislation pending in the House instructs

the government to create pilot programs for “accountable care

organizations” like Bassett. But the history of Medicare is full of

pilot programs.

Dr. Streck said there was growing recognition that hospitals like

Bassett were models. “Does it appear that Congress is going there?” he

said. “No.”

Senator Schumer said the Senate Finance Committee was determined to

make major changes to the government’s fee-for-service payment system.

“We talk about it all the time,” he said, “but it’s uncharted waters.”

Sign in to RecommendNext Article in Health (7 of 47) »A version of

this article appeared in print on July 25, 2009, on page A1 of the New

York edition.

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[Guest guest]

Sue -

 

The rights to life, liberty & pursue happiness has the underpinnings of basic

human rights, like health care. 

 

The US has ended up with 'more' because since our nation's birth we've bullied. 

Our comfort is on stolen land and made on the backs of slaves..  Most people

like to hang with the bully on the block because it's the safest route to

take.  But, there is a growing number of people who are waking up out of the

madness and striving to bring dignity back to our land. 

 

Perhaps the people who are working to make this country a more humane, peaceful

place should stay, and the people who have hate in their hearts should change,

or leave.

> > I am on a government run health plan and I have no problems with it. I get

pretty darn good care. Unlike with the insurance companies with which I had to

deal while employed. I broke a hip and if I did not have the government plan I

could not have paid for this 35,000 dollar hip. I would have lost my home and

everything else that I had worked for in order to have a hip.. In which case I

would have probably been better off dead. I have no qualms with Medicare. Right

now the Insurance companies and the big pharma's and the medical field in

general have control over you. Refuse what a doctor suggests for you and watch

how fast you will be sent a letter of dismissal. Try to get an insurance company

to pay for your MINOCIN for arthritis then scream about health reform in this

country. Ever wonder why so many of your doctors are foreign. I am sure it is

not because they love this country and want to practice medicine. Most come here

for the almighty dollar.

> > Health Reform is exactly what we need. It is just too bad that the likes of

the Nut cases we have in Congress will get to do the bill. I would have trusted

Obama to make the plan long before I would have Congress. Congress is more

interested in lining their pockets than anything else. You want health reform

then stop paying the insurance companies and head for the emergency rooms. When

the insurance companies are not making BILLIONS in profit watch how little

attention they pay to reform. You complain about the banks and the bailout then

go take your money out of the banks and then they can go under for their

fraudulent ways without taxpayer bailouts. Your future is in your hands once you

get BIG BUSINESS out of the way.

> > Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

informed ladies I have ever met.

> >

> > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus !

> >

> > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives..

> >

> > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

FEMA, etc.

> >

> > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes socialistic

decisions.

> >

> > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part of

the uninsured paid through

> >

> > higher taxes.

> >

> > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

treatment ......... no way!

> >

> > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?

Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten out a

problem with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with insurance

companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed

!

> >

> > My opinion-

> >

> > Carol* from ville, Florida

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

WOW, take me to Bassett!!

I have been to the Cleveland Clinic and while doctors might get paid a salary (

I didn't know that) their tests, xrays etc. are two times what I pay now, I had

to stop going there because I couldn't afford them, not that the tests where I

am now aren't expensive, they are, but really I was paying twice as much at the

Clinic. No easy answer I guess.

Sue

---- Beckman <beckman5@...> wrote:

> Cairns for The New York Times

>

> Reading this confirmed my belief that unnecessary tests and procedures

> are caused mostly by greedy drs.

>

> SIGN IN TO RECOMMEND

> SIGN IN TO E-MAIL

> PRINT

> REPRINTS

> SHARE

>

> By GARDINER HARRIS

> Published: July 24, 2009 NY Times

> COOPERSTOWN, N.Y. — Visiting the Cleveland Clinic this week,President

> Obama held up that well-known hospital as a model for the rest of the

> country. But for most of the nationÂ’s nearly 6,000hospitals, copying

> the Cleveland Clinic would be like asking the Durham Bulls, a minor

> league team, to copy the New York Yankees.

>

> The Work-Up

> Doctors on Salary

> Articles in this series are analyzing the economic and financial

> issues at the heart of the health care debate in Washington.

> Related

> DemocratsÂ’ Divide Fuels Turmoil on Health Care (July 25, 2009)

> The Work-Up: More Cost Cuts Sought From Drug Industry (July 23, 2009)

> The Work-Up: Costly Drugs Known as Biologics Prompt Exclusivity Debate

> (July 22, 2009)

> Times Topics: Health Care Reform

> A more accessible example is a hospital that sits a bit more than a

> home-run blast from the Baseball Hall of Fame here. Called Bassett

> Healthcare, this modest hospital of 180 beds delivers high-quality

> care at low costs in the face of federal reimbursement policies that

> discourage many of its best practices.

>

> Changing those policies is crucial to the success of health care

> reform, economists say — something Mr. Obama said that he would do.

> “Our proposals would change incentives so that doctors and nurses

> finally are free to give patients the best care, not just the most

> expensive care,” the president said Thursday in Ohio.

>

> But almost nothing in proposed legislation that has so far emerged in

> Congress would encourage the creation of similar hospitals.

>

> Bassett looks like a small liberal arts college, with ivy-covered

> fieldstone buildings connected by a warren of passageways. But what

> really sets it apart is the way the system pays its 260 doctors.

>

> Doctors in the United States are usually paid fees for each service

> they provide. The more procedures and tests they order, the more money

> they pocket. There is widespread agreement among health policy

> analysts that many of these procedures are unnecessary, raising costs

> in ways that often do nothing to improve patient health.

>

> By contrast, Bassett — like the Cleveland Clinic and a small number of

> other health systems in this country — pays salaries to all of its

> doctors. No matter how many tests or procedures are performed, they

> take home the same amount of money. Medical costs at Bassett are lower

> than those at 90 percent of the hospitals in New York, while the

> quality of care ranks among the top 10 percent in the nation, surveys

> show.

>

> Dr. F. Streck, the longtime president of Bassett, said the

> hospital paid salaries that were competitive with the money earned in

> a fee-for-service setting. Some fee-dependent physicians, though,

> either by working hard or by providing excessive treatments, can make

> more, an ability doctors trade associations have long defended.

>

> “Everyone knows that the Bassett model is the right model,” said

> Senator E. Schumer, a New York Democrat involved in

> negotiations over health care legislation. “The question is, How do

> you get from here to there?”

>

> It is a question that has plagued lawmakers and medical experts for

> nearly a century. As early as 1910, Abraham Flexner wrote a landmark

> report that argued teaching hospitals should be staffed only with

> salaried doctors. In 1970, the Carnegie Commission released a report

> calling for drastic improvements in rural health care, and highlighted

> Bassett as a model.

>

> Many doctors who work at Bassett believe deeply in its mission.

> Bassett has opened 13 clinics in schools around the region. The

> clinics lose money, but Bassett is considering opening 14 more.

>

> “I was in private practice for years in New Mexico,” said Dr. Philip

> A. Heavner, the chief ofpediatrics at Bassett, “and there was no

> interest in doing anything like this because people thought it would

> take volume away from their practices.”

>

> Dr. Randall Zuckerman, an attending surgeon at the Hospital of St.

> Raphael in New Haven, left Bassett a year ago because his wife wanted

> their four children to grow up closer to family. Since many of his

> patients see fee-dependent doctors, Dr. Zuckerman said in an

> interview, their care is more disjointed than was common at Bassett.

>

> “They get a lot of different consultations, some necessary and some

> not,” he said. “They are always missing parts of their medical records

> because the information is coming from multiple private offices.”

>

> Griffiths, 41, of Edmeston found a lump on her breast six

> years ago. Duringcancer care at Bassett, Ms. GriffithsÂ’s appointments

> to see her oncologist and primary care doctor are often scheduled on

> the same day. One doctor will sometimes accompany her during a

> procedure performed by another, and each has her complete medical

> history.

>

> “The communication amongst all of my doctors is impressive,” said Ms.

> Griffiths, who works as a database administrator for the insurance

> company New York Central Mutual. “They always call each other or shoot

> each other e-mails.”

>

> Such coordinated care is a hallmark of integrated health systems with

> salaried doctors, like Kaiser Permanente, the Mayo Clinic, the

> Veterans Administration and the Cleveland Clinic. In each system,

> medical records are electronic, so doctors have quick access to

> patientsÂ’ entire histories, including X-rays and prescriptions. And

> doctors often treat patients in interdisciplinary teams where

> coordination is encouraged since no one loses money by passing a

> patient to a colleague.

>

> But for some, wages are not enough. Dr. J. Stauffer, a

> gastroenterologist in ville, Ga., left Bassett 10 years ago. He

> has four children, including two of college age.

>

> “To provide for my family, I felt I needed to be reimbursed on a fee-

> for-service model,” Dr. Stauffer said. “I make three to four times

> what I was making there, although I donÂ’t know what my salary at

> Bassett would be now.”

>

> Dr. Stauffer would not reveal his pay. A recent national survey found

> that gastroenterologists earned $457,000 on average, with the top 10

> percent making $715,600.

>

> For decades, powerful doctors groups like the American Medical

> Association opposed efforts to change fee-for-service pay systems. And

> the culture of medicine has been entrepreneurial, with doctors saying

> they wanted to be their own bosses.

>

> “Medicine is the last cottage industry,” said Dr. Jordan Cohen,

> president emeritus of the Association of American Medical Colleges.

>

> Even without legislation, much of this is changing. The share of

> doctors in one- or two-physician practices dropped to 33 percent in

> 2005, from 41 percent in 1997, according to the Center for Studying

> Health System Change. Just 10 percent of doctors in their early 40s

> work in one- or two-doctor practices, compared with 38 percent of

> those 60 and older.

>

> Whether these trends will encourage the creation of more hospitals

> like Bassett is uncertain. Legislation pending in the House instructs

> the government to create pilot programs for “accountable care

> organizations” like Bassett. But the history of Medicare is full of

> pilot programs.

>

> Dr. Streck said there was growing recognition that hospitals like

> Bassett were models. “Does it appear that Congress is going there?” he

> said. “No.”

>

> Senator Schumer said the Senate Finance Committee was determined to

> make major changes to the governmentÂ’s fee-for-service payment system.

>

> “We talk about it all the time,” he said, “but it’s uncharted waters.”

>

> Sign in to RecommendNext Article in Health (7 of 47) »A version of

> this article appeared in print on July 25, 2009, on page A1 of the New

> York edition.

> SIGN IN TO E-MAIL

> PRINT

> REPRINTS

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, okay.

Sue

---- Rhonda Goebel <rhondagoebel@...> wrote:

> Sue -

>  

> The rights to life, liberty & pursue happiness has the underpinnings of basic

human rights, like health care. 

>  

> The US has ended up with 'more' because since our nation's birth

we've bullied.  Our comfort is on stolen land and made on the backs of

slaves..  Most people like to hang with the bully on the block because it's

the safest route to take.  But, there is a growing number of people who are

waking up out of the madness and striving to bring dignity back to our land. 

>  

> Perhaps the people who are working to make this country a more humane,

peaceful place should stay, and the people who have hate in their hearts should

change, or leave.

>

>

> > > I am on a government run health plan and I have no problems with it. I get

pretty darn good care. Unlike with the insurance companies with which I had to

deal while employed. I broke a hip and if I did not have the government plan I

could not have paid for this 35,000 dollar hip. I would have lost my home and

everything else that I had worked for in order to have a hip.. In which case I

would have probably been better off dead. I have no qualms with Medicare. Right

now the Insurance companies and the big pharma's and the medical field in

general have control over you. Refuse what a doctor suggests for you and watch

how fast you will be sent a letter of dismissal. Try to get an insurance company

to pay for your MINOCIN for arthritis then scream about health reform in this

country. Ever wonder why so many of your doctors are foreign. I am sure it is

not because they love this country and want to practice medicine. Most come here

for the almighty dollar.

> > > Health Reform is exactly what we need. It is just too bad that the likes

of the Nut cases we have in Congress will get to do the bill. I would have

trusted Obama to make the plan long before I would have Congress. Congress is

more interested in lining their pockets than anything else. You want health

reform then stop paying the insurance companies and head for the emergency

rooms. When the insurance companies are not making BILLIONS in profit watch how

little attention they pay to reform. You complain about the banks and the

bailout then go take your money out of the banks and then they can go under for

their fraudulent ways without taxpayer bailouts. Your future is in your hands

once you get BIG BUSINESS out of the way.

> > > Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

informed ladies I have ever met.

> > >

> > > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus

!

> > >

> > > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives..

> > >

> > > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

FEMA, etc.

> > >

> > > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes

socialistic decisions.

> > >

> > > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part

of the uninsured paid through

> > >

> > > higher taxes.

> > >

> > > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

treatment ......... no way!

> > >

> > > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?

Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten out a

problem with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with insurance

companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed

!

> > >

> > > My opinion-

> > >

> > > Carol* from ville, Florida

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Alright group, I am just a member not a moderator and I have read all the MSG

from yesterday and today and I don't like it that we are snapping at each other.

This is supposed to be a group talking about their health issues. I know the

Obamacare will not help us any if it has not been modified to help everyone. Yes

he wants this his way and his way only. I grew up in Germany and we nationalized

health-care my Dad was able to purchase a private health care for his family

once he made more money after the war and it helped for me to go to the doctor I

needed to see. When I became an adult I had to go on the nationalized health

care and didn't like it, but I was taken care of. We need to talk to our

Senators and Congress men to make sure the health care is in our favor. Please

let's not fight amongst ourselves because stress doesn't help the issues we are

having anymore.

Eva

From: Harald Weiss, Technical Marketing Group <hweiss@...>

Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

rheumatic

Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 12:27 AM

 

Dear Group,

The text attached by Ethel is inflammatory demagoguery at its worst,

with statements like the following: " If you are over 65 or have been

recently diagnosed as having an advanced form of cardiac disease or

aggressive cancer.....dream on if you think you will get

treated..... pick out your coffin. If your doctor saves your life,

you might have to go to the prison to see your doctor for follow-up

appointments. I believe this is the same model Stalin used in the

former Soviet Union. One word to describe the plan is....FASCIST. "

It appears that there are economic interest interests tied to the

current US health care system who are pulling all stops to prevent

much-needed health care reform. The power of these interests is hard

to comprehend. In 2008, the US spent 17% of its gross domestic

product (GDP) on health care, or 4.3 times the amount spent on

national defense.

Please see http://www.nchc. org/facts/ cost.shtml and

http://www.nchc. org/documents/ Cost%20Fact% 20Sheet-2009. pdf

Right now, health care is being rationed -- by cigar-smoking CEOs

behind the closed doors of corporate offices. Wouldn't it be wiser,

fairer and more American to take these tough decisions out of the

boardroom and into the open?

Should care be guided by unregulated profit motives or by science,

compassion and rational policy? Insurance profiteers and conservative

fear mongers always raise the specter of rationing when they feel

threatened by rational health care reform.

The truth is that we ration health care now -- mostly by wealth,

employment and age. The question is, can we improved our current system?

For the first draft of a health reform bill dated July 14, 2009, to

be considered by the House of Representatives, please follow this link:

<http://edlabor. house.gov/ documents/ 111/pdf/publicat ions/AAHCA- BillText-

071409.pdf>http://edlabor. house.gov/ documents/ 111/pdf/publicat ions/AAHCA-

BillText- 071409.pdf

There are many good components in this draft. The final bill, if not

stopped by the current health care industry, will assuredly be different.

Sincerely, Harald

[Guest guest]

Sally in Little Rock here. I'm an AF vet married to a retired AF man and hated

having to go to the military docs while he was active duty but got some great,

EXTREMELY cheap care and surgeries while in the military (rather, married to AF

man).

Since he has retired we have 3 options under a WONDERFUL govt plan-take only

military doctors-cheapest plan-about $200 deductible a year-hubby is on that one

and pays for NOTHING-doesn't pay for meds, x-rays, labs-anything we get at base

and has a ridiculously low co-pay on phys therapy or surgeries because the govt

sets an amount and WILL NOT pay over this-BIG TIME competition for the insurance

companies that Raytheon would have insured us with. The docs don't like it but

they gladly take it-YAY!

I take option #2 and CHOOSE MY OWN DOCTORS-hallelujah!! And, thank God, they

can't turn me away due to my Rheumatoid (I'm talking about the govt coverage

called TRI-CARE. I get my cocktail of meds for free at the base and only have

to send away for Celebrex, which costs me $9 for a 3 month supply-even if I take

4 a day.

We spend the most money in the world on health care and the costs are

ridiculous. My hubby and I are extremely lucky to have Tri-Care and truly hope

that we get rid of the ridiculous costs and pay-offs to drug and insurance

companies and replace it with another FABULOUS govt option like us retired

military and govt workers have.

I find it morally reprehensible (and for you Christians out there). TOTALLY

unchristian not to have universal coverage in the richest country in the world.

I read about what some of you go thru with these horribly greedy and uncaring

insurance and pharm co.s and I want to cry!!

So. Go Obama-FIX THIS MESS!!

Good luck and good health everyone!

Sally in Little Rock

From:

Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:09 AM

rheumatic

Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

All congress has a terrific system and your crasy if they paln on anything

like that for us. Danshe and I quote has said that Americans need to expect

less care as they get old, they should no longer expect to get hip

replacements, etc. i hope you enjoy obabma care. Think Post Office

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 7:05 AM, charlene parris <cparris25@...>wrote:

>

>

> I haven't been on the phone with a government office, but I have been on

> the phone with my insurance company. The same company that happily took my

> preimums while I was well and now that I need them places obstacles at every

> turn. I'm willing to take my chances with a public option (pvt health care

> will still be available for those who want it) since I now have health

> insurance company now controlling my medical care & they sure don't give a

> #$$#$ about me.

>

> One more thought: Those nit-wits in congress who oppose Obama's reform have

> GOVERNMENT supplied health insurance. Let them give up their insurance and

> see how the rest of us manage.

>

> Don't be afraid of change - it's a good thing!

>

> Thanks for listening, Charlene

>

>

>

> From: Carolflo@... <Carolflo%40comcast.net>

<Carolflo@...<Carolflo%40comcast.net>>

>

> Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> rheumatic <rheumatic%40>

> Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 6:45 AM

>

>

>

> Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

> informed ladies I have ever met.

>

> The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus

> !

>

> #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives.

>

> #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

> FEMA, etc.

>

> So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes

> socialistic decisions.

>

> #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part

> of the uninsured paid through

>

> higher taxes.

>

> #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

> treatment ......... no way!

>

> Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?

> Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten

> out a problem with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with

> insurance companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this

> bill gets passed !

>

> My opinion-

>

> Carol* from ville, Florida

>

>

[Guest guest]

So Sally, if you are a Christian there is no room for debate on the healthcare

system? Just because people have different ideas, I don't think that gives YOU

the right to call them un-Christian.

Sue

---- Sally McQuie <Sally_Mc@...> wrote:

> Sally in Little Rock here. I'm an AF vet married to a retired AF man and

hated having to go to the military docs while he was active duty but got some

great, EXTREMELY cheap care and surgeries while in the military (rather, married

to AF man).

>

> Since he has retired we have 3 options under a WONDERFUL govt plan-take only

military doctors-cheapest plan-about $200 deductible a year-hubby is on that one

and pays for NOTHING-doesn't pay for meds, x-rays, labs-anything we get at base

and has a ridiculously low co-pay on phys therapy or surgeries because the govt

sets an amount and WILL NOT pay over this-BIG TIME competition for the insurance

companies that Raytheon would have insured us with. The docs don't like it but

they gladly take it-YAY!

>

> I take option #2 and CHOOSE MY OWN DOCTORS-hallelujah!! And, thank God, they

can't turn me away due to my Rheumatoid (I'm talking about the govt coverage

called TRI-CARE. I get my cocktail of meds for free at the base and only have

to send away for Celebrex, which costs me $9 for a 3 month supply-even if I take

4 a day.

>

> We spend the most money in the world on health care and the costs are

ridiculous. My hubby and I are extremely lucky to have Tri-Care and truly hope

that we get rid of the ridiculous costs and pay-offs to drug and insurance

companies and replace it with another FABULOUS govt option like us retired

military and govt workers have.

>

> I find it morally reprehensible (and for you Christians out there). TOTALLY

unchristian not to have universal coverage in the richest country in the world.

I read about what some of you go thru with these horribly greedy and uncaring

insurance and pharm co.s and I want to cry!!

>

> So. Go Obama-FIX THIS MESS!!

>

> Good luck and good health everyone!

>

> Sally in Little Rock

>

>

> From:

> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:09 AM

> rheumatic

> Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

>

>

> All congress has a terrific system and your crasy if they paln on anything

> like that for us. Danshe and I quote has said that Americans need to expect

> less care as they get old, they should no longer expect to get hip

> replacements, etc. i hope you enjoy obabma care. Think Post Office

>

> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 7:05 AM, charlene parris <cparris25@...>wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > I haven't been on the phone with a government office, but I have been on

> > the phone with my insurance company. The same company that happily took my

> > preimums while I was well and now that I need them places obstacles at every

> > turn. I'm willing to take my chances with a public option (pvt health care

> > will still be available for those who want it) since I now have health

> > insurance company now controlling my medical care & they sure don't give a

> > #$$#$ about me.

> >

> > One more thought: Those nit-wits in congress who oppose Obama's reform have

> > GOVERNMENT supplied health insurance. Let them give up their insurance and

> > see how the rest of us manage.

> >

> > Don't be afraid of change - it's a good thing!

> >

> > Thanks for listening, Charlene

> >

> >

> >

> > From: Carolflo@... <Carolflo%40comcast.net>

<Carolflo@...<Carolflo%40comcast.net>>

> >

> > Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> > rheumatic <rheumatic%40>

> > Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 6:45 AM

> >

> >

> >

> > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

> > informed ladies I have ever met.

> >

> > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus

> > !

> >

> > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives.

> >

> > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

> > FEMA, etc.

> >

> > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes

> > socialistic decisions.

> >

> > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part

> > of the uninsured paid through

> >

> > higher taxes.

> >

> > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

> > treatment ......... no way!

> >

> > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?

> > Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten

> > out a problem with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with

> > insurance companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this

> > bill gets passed !

> >

> > My opinion-

> >

> > Carol* from ville, Florida

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Please lets stop the bickering

Eva

> >

> > From: Carolflocomcast (DOT) net <Carolflo%40comcast .net> <Carolflocomcast (DOT)

net<Carolflo%40comcast .net>>

> >

> > Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> > rheumatic@grou ps.com <rheumatic%40g roups.com>

> > Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 6:45 AM

> >

> >

> >

> > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

> > informed ladies I have ever met.

> >

> > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus

> > !

> >

> > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives.

> >

> > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

> > FEMA, etc.

> >

> > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes

> > socialistic decisions.

> >

> > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part

> > of the uninsured paid through

> >

> > higher taxes.

> >

> > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

> > treatment ......... no way!

> >

> > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?

> > Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten

> > out a problem with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with

> > insurance companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this

> > bill gets passed !

> >

> > My opinion-

> >

> > Carol* from ville, Florida

> >

> >