Re: OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

[Guest guest]

Hi Ethel,

I got this yesterday but didn't think of sending to this group! What a

great move. I did forward the article to my email group and also emailed

the below message to my three reps. Several of my friends also wrote/called

their reps. Here is the text I sent:

Dear Representative Connolly,

The article below [Dr. Janda's article] is but one of many I receive daily

from a multitude of sources. Outraged people (once the silent majority) are

sending information via emails/tweets/et al to everyone they know all across

this once great nation in protest of this (and other) legislative efforts.

I will be seriously disappointed in your representation of me if you support

it. I urge you and others representing VA to read this document as

carefully as your voters are doing, listen to your voters and then vote

accordingly. I know of NO ONE in favor of this attempt to reform an

already-too-damaged system. Medicine needs to be practiced between doctor

and patient without any outside interference or pretend 'guidance'. E. H.

Gooding, voter, 11th District Virginia

I heard from Sen Warner today but his response but non committal (at best).

I hope that more and more people call and email to let him see that this is

a serious issue for a great many of us. Here's a link re contacting your

reps. I had to cut and paste my test for two of the reps, one allowed me to

email directly.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?State=VA

I imagine you can change the last two letters, VA, to represent your state.

El

_____

From: rheumatic [mailto:rheumatic ] On Behalf

Of Ethel Snooks

Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 4:15 PM

rheumatic

Subject: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

This was received this afternoon from a physician who has used the AP in his

practice and for his family. It would be my guess neither the AP nor the MP

will be available under Obama's plan. If you agree with this physician and

Dr. Janda, you may want to sign the petition at this site, and then forward

this email to your friends and family.

www.freeourhealthcarenow.com

Ethel

THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

Written by Dr. Dave Janda

Thursday, 23 July 2009

As a physician who has authored books on preventative health care, I was

given the opportunity to be the keynote speaker at a Congressional Dinner at

The Capitol Building in Washington last Friday (7/17).

The presentation was entitled Health Care Reform, The Power & Profit of

Prevention, and I was gratified that it was well received.

In preparation for the presentation, I read the latest version of " reform "

as authored by The Obama Administration and supported by Speaker Pelosi and

Senator Reid. Here is the link to the 1,018 page document:

http://edlabor.

<http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-0714

09.pdf> house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Let me summarize just a few salient points of the above plan. First,

however, it should be clear that the same warning notice must be placed on

The ObamaCare Plan as on a pack of cigarettes: Consuming this product will

be hazardous to your health.

The underlying method of cutting costs throughout the plan is based on

rationing and denying care. There is no focus on preventing health care need

whatever. The plan's method is the most inhumane and unethical approach to

cutting costs I can imagine as a physician.

The rationing of care is implemented through The National Health Care Board,

according to the plan. This illustrious Board " will approve or reject

treatment for patients based on the cost per treatment divided by the number

of years the patient will benefit from the treatment. "

Translation.....if you are over 65 or have been recently diagnosed as having

an advanced form of cardiac disease or aggressive cancer.....dream on if you

think you will get treated.....pick out your coffin.

Oh, you say this could never happen? Sorry.... this is the same model they

use in Britain.

The plan mandates that there will be little or no advanced treatments to be

available in the future. It creates The Federal Coordinating Council For

Comparative Effectiveness Research, the purpose of which is " to slow the

development of new medications and technologies in order to reduce costs. "

Yes, this is to be the law.

The plan also outlines that doctors and hospitals will be overseen and

reviewed by The National Coordinator For Health Information and Technology.

This " coordinator " will " monitor treatments being delivered to make sure

doctors and hospitals are strictly following government guidelines that are

deemed appropriate. " It goes on to say..... " Doctors and hospitals not

adhering to guidelines will face penalties. "

According to those in Congress, penalties could include large six figure

financial fines and possible imprisonment.

So according to The ObamaCare Plan....if your doctor saves your life you

might have to go to the prison to see your doctor for follow -up

appointments. I believe this is the same model Stalin used in the former

Soviet Union.

Section 102 has the Orwellian title, " Protecting the Choice to Keep Current

Coverage. " What this section really mandates is that it is illegal to keep

your private insurance if your status changes - e.g., if you lose or change

your job, retire from your job and become a senior, graduate from college

and get your first job. Yes, illegal.

When Mr. Obama hosted a conference call with bloggers urging them to

pressure Congress to pass his health plan as soon as possible, a blogger

from Maine referenced an Investors Business Daily article that claimed

Section 102 of the House health legislation would outlaw private insurance.

He asked: " Is this true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and

will insurers be able to write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is

passed? " Mr. Obama replied: " You know, I have to say that I am not familiar

with the provision you are talking about. "

Then there is Section 1233 of The ObamaCare Plan, devoted to " Advanced Care

Planning. " After each American turns 65 years of age they have to go to a

mandated counseling program that is designed to end life sooner.

This session is to occur every 5 years unless the person has developed a

chronic illness then it must be done every year. The topics in this session

will include, " how to decline hydration, nutrition and how to initiate

hospice care. " It is no wonder The Obama Administration does not like my

emphasis on Prevention. For Mr. Obama, prevention is the " enemy " as people

would live longer.

I rest my case. The ObamaCare Plan is hazardous to the health of every

American.

After I finished my Capitol Hill presentation, I was asked by a Congressman

in the question-answer session: " I'll be doing a number of network

interviews on the Obama Health Care Plan. If I am asked what is the one word

to describe the plan what should I answer. "

The answer is simple, honest, direct, analytical, sad but truthful. I told

him that one word is FASCIST.

Then I added, " I hope you'll have the courage to use that word, Congressman.

No other word is more appropriate. "

Dr. Dave Janda, MD, is an orthopedic surgeon, and a world-recognized expert

on the prevention of sports injuries, particularly in children. His website

is noinjury.com.

[Guest guest]

AP is not covered for me now, so not much difference

Ute

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Ute " <nowyoga@...>

Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 7:48 PM

>

>

> AP is not covered for me now, so not much difference

>

> Ute

>

>

Ute, unless the AP is specifically authorized under Obama's plan your doctor

will not be able to prescribe for you whether you can pay for it or not, and

if he does, he will be subject to large fines and even imprisonment. And

if you are 59 or older - forget any kind of care. A nurse who has worked in

cardiology for 30 years told me today once you hit that magical figure of

59, you will not be able to get heart procedures like angioplasty, by-pass

surgery, etc., and will be counseled every 5 years as to what you can expect

going forward - getting you ready to accept any health problems with only

medication to make you comfortable.

This plan is following the course of action of Stalin and Hitler.

[Guest guest]

Not so much different? Maybe a few more of us need to take the time to actually

read the Bill. It has very little to do with health care... We need to educate

ourselves and not rely on misinformation from either political party.

Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

AP is not covered for me now, so not much difference

Ute

[Guest guest]

I respect Ethel's knowledge about AP, but she is simply wrong about

the Obama plan. For one thing, while I am not a fan of the bills in

Congress (because they don't curtail the power of the insurance

companie), they simply do not spell out the kind of details that she

quotes below. There is nothing specific in those plans about

treatments allowed or punishments or age cut-offs. I am afraid we

must not swallow the lies of the insurance lobby! Educate yourselves,

folks. Don't let those profit-hungry interests manipulate you.

On Jul 24, 2009, at 9:13 PM, Ethel Snooks wrote:

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " Ute " <nowyoga@...>

> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 7:48 PM

>

> >

> >

> > AP is not covered for me now, so not much difference

> >

> > Ute

> >

> >

> Ute, unless the AP is specifically authorized under Obama's plan

> your doctor

> will not be able to prescribe for you whether you can pay for it or

> not, and

> if he does, he will be subject to large fines and even imprisonment.

> And

> if you are 59 or older - forget any kind of care. A nurse who has

> worked in

> cardiology for 30 years told me today once you hit that magical

> figure of

> 59, you will not be able to get heart procedures like angioplasty,

> by-pass

> surgery, etc., and will be counseled every 5 years as to what you

> can expect

> going forward - getting you ready to accept any health problems with

> only

> medication to make you comfortable.

>

> This plan is following the course of action of Stalin and Hitler.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Talking of misinformation..... I really had a good laugh when I saw an

infomercial on a station from N.Y.It showed this Canadian woman who said

she had to go to N.Y for care as she had brain cancer and would have to

wait several weeks here in Canada for surgery.She was telling Americans

to avoid a medical system such as we have .Well,it turned out she only

has a cyst that would not be a problem and definately could wait until

more urgent cases went ahead of her.The only problem we have is that a

lot of our greedy but good doctors have moved to the U.S where they can

make mega bucks.The average family doctor here is only paid a fraction

of what one makes in the U.S but at the end of the year stil makes

around 2 hundred thousand dollars.He does not have to pay the exorbitant

fees for office and staff either.I would be extremely happy to earn what

they do.

I am retired but pay for life,dental and drug insurance the sum of

1,800.00$ a year,most drugs and dental are covered 75 to 80% and after

age 65 I only pay 150.00 a year for drug insurance no matter what is

prescribed then my life and dental will go down a lot.We do pay a higher

tax rate to cover our Medicare but everyone gets the same treatment

..This tax money from everyone goes into a pool,some people need it but

others that are healthy and never go to a doctor still pay for it and

know that when their time comes,the health plan will be there for them also.

Lynne G./SD

>

>

> Not so much different? Maybe a few more of us need to take the time to

> actually read the Bill. It has very little to do with health care...

> We need to educate ourselves and not rely on misinformation from

> either political party.

>

> Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

>

> AP is not covered for me now, so not much difference

>

> Ute

>

>

[Guest guest]

What about power hungry politicians, shall we believe everything they tell us?

Sue

---- Beckman <beckman5@...> wrote:

> I respect Ethel's knowledge about AP, but she is simply wrong about

> the Obama plan. For one thing, while I am not a fan of the bills in

> Congress (because they don't curtail the power of the insurance

> companie), they simply do not spell out the kind of details that she

> quotes below. There is nothing specific in those plans about

> treatments allowed or punishments or age cut-offs. I am afraid we

> must not swallow the lies of the insurance lobby! Educate yourselves,

> folks. Don't let those profit-hungry interests manipulate you.

>

>

>

>

> On Jul 24, 2009, at 9:13 PM, Ethel Snooks wrote:

>

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: " Ute " <nowyoga@...>

> > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 7:48 PM

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > AP is not covered for me now, so not much difference

> > >

> > > Ute

> > >

> > >

> > Ute, unless the AP is specifically authorized under Obama's plan

> > your doctor

> > will not be able to prescribe for you whether you can pay for it or

> > not, and

> > if he does, he will be subject to large fines and even imprisonment.

> > And

> > if you are 59 or older - forget any kind of care. A nurse who has

> > worked in

> > cardiology for 30 years told me today once you hit that magical

> > figure of

> > 59, you will not be able to get heart procedures like angioplasty,

> > by-pass

> > surgery, etc., and will be counseled every 5 years as to what you

> > can expect

> > going forward - getting you ready to accept any health problems with

> > only

> > medication to make you comfortable.

> >

> > This plan is following the course of action of Stalin and Hitler.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Group,

The text attached by Ethel is inflammatory demagoguery at its worst,

with statements like the following: " If you are over 65 or have been

recently diagnosed as having an advanced form of cardiac disease or

aggressive cancer.....dream on if you think you will get

treated.....pick out your coffin. If your doctor saves your life,

you might have to go to the prison to see your doctor for follow-up

appointments. I believe this is the same model Stalin used in the

former Soviet Union. One word to describe the plan is....FASCIST. "

It appears that there are economic interest interests tied to the

current US health care system who are pulling all stops to prevent

much-needed health care reform. The power of these interests is hard

to comprehend. In 2008, the US spent 17% of its gross domestic

product (GDP) on health care, or 4.3 times the amount spent on

national defense.

Please see http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml and

http://www.nchc.org/documents/Cost%20Fact%20Sheet-2009.pdf

Right now, health care is being rationed -- by cigar-smoking CEOs

behind the closed doors of corporate offices. Wouldn't it be wiser,

fairer and more American to take these tough decisions out of the

boardroom and into the open?

Should care be guided by unregulated profit motives or by science,

compassion and rational policy? Insurance profiteers and conservative

fear mongers always raise the specter of rationing when they feel

threatened by rational health care reform.

The truth is that we ration health care now -- mostly by wealth,

employment and age. The question is, can we improved our current system?

For the first draft of a health reform bill dated July 14, 2009, to

be considered by the House of Representatives, please follow this link:

<http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.p\

df>http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409\

..pdf

There are many good components in this draft. The final bill, if not

stopped by the current health care industry, will assuredly be different.

Sincerely, Harald

[Guest guest]

The reality of healthcare is it will be guided by profit (free market) or fraud

(governtment).

Sue

---- " Harald Weiss wrote:

> Dear Group,

>

> The text attached by Ethel is inflammatory demagoguery at its worst,

> with statements like the following: " If you are over 65 or have been

> recently diagnosed as having an advanced form of cardiac disease or

> aggressive cancer.....dream on if you think you will get

> treated.....pick out your coffin. If your doctor saves your life,

> you might have to go to the prison to see your doctor for follow-up

> appointments. I believe this is the same model Stalin used in the

> former Soviet Union. One word to describe the plan is....FASCIST. "

>

> It appears that there are economic interest interests tied to the

> current US health care system who are pulling all stops to prevent

> much-needed health care reform. The power of these interests is hard

> to comprehend. In 2008, the US spent 17% of its gross domestic

> product (GDP) on health care, or 4.3 times the amount spent on

> national defense.

>

> Please see http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml and

> http://www.nchc.org/documents/Cost%20Fact%20Sheet-2009.pdf

>

> Right now, health care is being rationed -- by cigar-smoking CEOs

> behind the closed doors of corporate offices. Wouldn't it be wiser,

> fairer and more American to take these tough decisions out of the

> boardroom and into the open?

>

> Should care be guided by unregulated profit motives or by science,

> compassion and rational policy? Insurance profiteers and conservative

> fear mongers always raise the specter of rationing when they feel

> threatened by rational health care reform.

>

> The truth is that we ration health care now -- mostly by wealth,

> employment and age. The question is, can we improved our current system?

>

> For the first draft of a health reform bill dated July 14, 2009, to

> be considered by the House of Representatives, please follow this link:

>

<http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.p\

df>http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409\

..pdf

>

>

> There are many good components in this draft. The final bill, if not

> stopped by the current health care industry, will assuredly be different.

>

> Sincerely, Harald

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ethel is completely correct!  Please listen to one of the most educated and

informed ladies I have ever met.

The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus ! 

#1 Obama's plan gives governmen t  control over OUR bodies and OUR lives. 

#2  The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

FEMA, etc.

       So we give them another shot at this plan ?  The government makes

socialistic decisions.

#3  This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part of

the uninsured paid through

       higher taxes.

#4  This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

treatment ......... no way!

Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?  Imagine

sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten out a problem

with your healthcare service?  If you think dealing with insurance

companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed

!

My opinion-

Carol*  from ville, Florida

[Guest guest]

I am on a government run health plan and I have no problems with it. I get

pretty darn good care. Unlike with the insurance companies with which I had to

deal while employed. I broke a hip and if I did not have the government plan I

could not have paid for this 35,000 dollar hip. I would have lost my home and

everything else that I had worked for in order to have a hip. In which case I

would have probably been better off dead. I have no qualms with Medicare. Right

now the Insurance companies and the big pharma's and the medical field in

general have control over you. Refuse what a doctor suggests for you and watch

how fast you will be sent a letter of dismissal. Try to get an insurance company

to pay for your MINOCIN for arthritis then scream about health reform in this

country. Ever wonder why so many of your doctors are foreign. I am sure it is

not because they love this country and want to practice medicine. Most come here

for the almighty dollar.

Health Reform is exactly what we need. It is just too bad that the likes of the

Nut cases we have in Congress will get to do the bill. I would have trusted

Obama to make the plan long before I would have Congress. Congress is more

interested in lining their pockets than anything else. You want health reform

then stop paying the insurance companies and head for the emergency rooms. When

the insurance companies are not making BILLIONS in profit watch how little

attention they pay to reform. You complain about the banks and the bailout then

go take your money out of the banks and then they can go under for their

fraudulent ways without taxpayer bailouts. Your future is in your hands once you

get BIG BUSINESS out of the way.

Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

informed ladies I have ever met.

The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus !

#1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives.

#2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

FEMA, etc.

So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes

socialistic decisions.

#3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part of

the uninsured paid through

higher taxes.

#4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

treatment ......... no way!

Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?

Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten out a

problem with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with insurance

companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed

!

My opinion-

Carol* from ville, Florida

[Guest guest]

You would not be dealing with the government under the bills now being

discussed or under (single payer). Under some call Obamacare, there

would be perhaps some small regulation of insurance companies (no pre-

existing conditions ruled out, if we are lucky). I now often sit on

the phone with my insurance company (but it's secondary to Medicare,

than God). I never need to speak to Medicare because my bills get paid

so smoothly. Those of us on Medicare and SS know that they are

wonderful though they are not perfect. I shudder to think what life

would be like without them. I'd like those of you on this list that

have traditional Medicare to speak out about how you feel about it!

Traditional Medicare IS single payer (when it is not a Medicare

Advantage Plan run by an insurance company), and, as so many of us

know, we choose our own doctors and they make our medical decisions.

We won't be getting Medicare For All, however (that would be HR 676, a

bill that is being pushed by Rep Kucinich and which would be great for

us). Instead the for-profit insurance industry will remain in control

for the most part. There may be a public option, but that's not yet

spelled out. If we got it, it could be like Medicare, but more likely

will be a choice that those of us that can afford private insurance

will not want to make because it is likely to be weak--but it will

not control our bodies and our lives.

Don't let yourselves believe this kind of demagoguery!

On Jul 25, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Carolflo@... wrote:

>

>

> Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most

> educated and informed ladies I have ever met.

>

> The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is

> disastorus !

>

> #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR

> lives.

>

> #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare,

> Fanny Mae, FEMA, etc.

>

> So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government

> makes socialistic decisions.

>

> #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a

> large part of the uninsured paid through

>

> higher taxes.

>

> #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who

> gets treatment ......... no way!

>

> Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any

> reason ? Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make

> attempts to stra ighten out a problem with your healthcare service?

> If you think dealing with insurance companies are bad then you are

> in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed !

>

> My opinion-

>

> Carol* from ville, Florida

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is wonderful that you- yourself- have no problems with your government -run

health plan.  But it is not that way for all of us.   

And if you do not want government health-care control for yourself- do you

really think all Americans should be forced into something they do not believe

in? 

Carol*

[Guest guest]

I haven't been on the phone with a government office, but I have been on the

phone with my insurance company.  The same company that happily took my preimums

while I was well and now that I need them places obstacles at every turn.  I'm

willing to take my chances with a public option (pvt health care will still be

available for those who want it) since I now have health insurance company now

controlling my medical care  & they sure don't give a #$$#$ about me. 

 

One more thought: Those nit-wits in congress who oppose Obama's reform have

GOVERNMENT  supplied health insurance.  Let them give up their insurance and see

how the rest of us manage.

 

Don't be afraid of change - it's a good thing! 

 

Thanks for listening,  Charlene

From: Carolflo@... <Carolflo@...>

Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

rheumatic

Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 6:45 AM

 

Ethel is completely correct!  Please listen to one of the most educated and

informed ladies I have ever met.

The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus ! 

#1 Obama's plan gives governmen t  control over OUR bodies and OUR lives. 

#2  The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

FEMA, etc.

       So we give them another shot at this plan ?  The government makes

socialistic decisions.

#3  This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part of

the uninsured paid through

       higher taxes.

#4  This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

treatment ......... no way!

Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?  Imagine

sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten out a problem

with your healthcare service?  If you think dealing with insurance companies are

bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed !

My opinion-

Carol*  from ville, Florida

[Guest guest]

Isn't Medicare and Medicaid going bankrupt? Isn't there a lot of fraud in both

of these plans? I believe I read something to that effect not to long ago, it

was 4 to 5 % which doesn't sound like much but it was in the billions of

dollars. Also I think Medicare/caid have contributed to the out of control

healthcare prices. I'm just sayin', if the government could run these two

programs (or any of their programs for that matter) soundly then I would be more

apt to believe this pie in the sky wonder healthcare they are going to provide

us for " free " .

Sue

---- Beckman <beckman5@...> wrote:

> You would not be dealing with the government under the bills now being

> discussed or under (single payer). Under some call Obamacare, there

> would be perhaps some small regulation of insurance companies (no pre-

> existing conditions ruled out, if we are lucky). I now often sit on

> the phone with my insurance company (but it's secondary to Medicare,

> than God). I never need to speak to Medicare because my bills get paid

> so smoothly. Those of us on Medicare and SS know that they are

> wonderful though they are not perfect. I shudder to think what life

> would be like without them. I'd like those of you on this list that

> have traditional Medicare to speak out about how you feel about it!

>

> Traditional Medicare IS single payer (when it is not a Medicare

> Advantage Plan run by an insurance company), and, as so many of us

> know, we choose our own doctors and they make our medical decisions.

> We won't be getting Medicare For All, however (that would be HR 676, a

> bill that is being pushed by Rep Kucinich and which would be great for

> us). Instead the for-profit insurance industry will remain in control

> for the most part. There may be a public option, but that's not yet

> spelled out. If we got it, it could be like Medicare, but more likely

> will be a choice that those of us that can afford private insurance

> will not want to make because it is likely to be weak--but it will

> not control our bodies and our lives.

>

> Don't let yourselves believe this kind of demagoguery!

>

>

>

>

>

> On Jul 25, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Carolflo@... wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most

> > educated and informed ladies I have ever met.

> >

> > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is

> > disastorus !

> >

> > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR

> > lives.

> >

> > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare,

> > Fanny Mae, FEMA, etc.

> >

> > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government

> > makes socialistic decisions.

> >

> > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a

> > large part of the uninsured paid through

> >

> > higher taxes.

> >

> > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who

> > gets treatment ......... no way!

> >

> > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any

> > reason ? Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make

> > attempts to stra ighten out a problem with your healthcare service?

> > If you think dealing with insurance companies are bad then you are

> > in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed !

> >

> > My opinion-

> >

> > Carol* from ville, Florida

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

All congress has a terrific system and your crasy if they paln on anything

like that for us. Danshe and I quote has said that Americans need to expect

less care as they get old, they should no longer expect to get hip

replacements, etc. i hope you enjoy obabma care. Think Post Office

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 7:05 AM, charlene parris <cparris25@...>wrote:

>

>

> I haven't been on the phone with a government office, but I have been on

> the phone with my insurance company. The same company that happily took my

> preimums while I was well and now that I need them places obstacles at every

> turn. I'm willing to take my chances with a public option (pvt health care

> will still be available for those who want it) since I now have health

> insurance company now controlling my medical care & they sure don't give a

> #$$#$ about me.

>

> One more thought: Those nit-wits in congress who oppose Obama's reform have

> GOVERNMENT supplied health insurance. Let them give up their insurance and

> see how the rest of us manage.

>

> Don't be afraid of change - it's a good thing!

>

> Thanks for listening, Charlene

>

>

>

> From: Carolflo@... <Carolflo%40comcast.net>

<Carolflo@...<Carolflo%40comcast.net>>

>

> Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> rheumatic <rheumatic%40>

> Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 6:45 AM

>

>

>

> Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

> informed ladies I have ever met.

>

> The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus

> !

>

> #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives.

>

> #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

> FEMA, etc.

>

> So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes

> socialistic decisions.

>

> #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part

> of the uninsured paid through

>

> higher taxes.

>

> #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

> treatment ......... no way!

>

> Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?

> Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten

> out a problem with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with

> insurance companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this

> bill gets passed !

>

> My opinion-

>

> Carol* from ville, Florida

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm glad you got your hip!

I don't disagree that reform is needed, I just don't trust the government to do

it.

Sue

---- tssvol <tssvol@...> wrote:

> I am on a government run health plan and I have no problems with it. I get

pretty darn good care. Unlike with the insurance companies with which I had to

deal while employed. I broke a hip and if I did not have the government plan I

could not have paid for this 35,000 dollar hip. I would have lost my home and

everything else that I had worked for in order to have a hip. In which case I

would have probably been better off dead. I have no qualms with Medicare. Right

now the Insurance companies and the big pharma's and the medical field in

general have control over you. Refuse what a doctor suggests for you and watch

how fast you will be sent a letter of dismissal. Try to get an insurance company

to pay for your MINOCIN for arthritis then scream about health reform in this

country. Ever wonder why so many of your doctors are foreign. I am sure it is

not because they love this country and want to practice medicine. Most come here

for the almighty dollar.

> Health Reform is exactly what we need. It is just too bad that the likes of

the Nut cases we have in Congress will get to do the bill. I would have trusted

Obama to make the plan long before I would have Congress. Congress is more

interested in lining their pockets than anything else. You want health reform

then stop paying the insurance companies and head for the emergency rooms. When

the insurance companies are not making BILLIONS in profit watch how little

attention they pay to reform. You complain about the banks and the bailout then

go take your money out of the banks and then they can go under for their

fraudulent ways without taxpayer bailouts. Your future is in your hands once you

get BIG BUSINESS out of the way.

> Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

>

>

>

>

> Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

informed ladies I have ever met.

>

> The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus !

>

> #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives.

>

> #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

FEMA, etc.

>

> So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes

socialistic decisions.

>

> #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part

of the uninsured paid through

>

> higher taxes.

>

> #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

treatment ......... no way!

>

> Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?

Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten out a

problem with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with insurance

companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed

!

>

> My opinion-

>

> Carol* from ville, Florida

>

>

[Guest guest]

All change isn't necessarily good. There is no discipline in the schools,

that's a change from when I went to school, and frankly having two kids in

school, this " change " isn't working out so well.

I agree there are penty of nit-wits in Washington, I doubt if any of them are

going to be on the same plan us sheeple would be placed on. They'll have the

" ruling class " plan while the rest of us get IRS gridlock plan. Complain about

your insurance company now but you'll be longing for the " good old days " once

government has control of your health.

Sue

---- charlene parris <cparris25@...> wrote:

> I haven't been on the phone with a government office, but I have been on the

phone with my insurance company.  The same company that happily took my

preimums while I was well and now that I need them places obstacles at every

turn.  I'm willing to take my chances with a public option (pvt health care

will still be available for those who want it) since I now have health insurance

company now controlling my medical care  & they sure don't give a #$$#$ about

me. 

>  

> One more thought: Those nit-wits in congress who oppose Obama's reform have

GOVERNMENT  supplied health insurance.  Let them give up their insurance and

see how the rest of us manage.

>  

> Don't be afraid of change - it's a good thing! 

>  

> Thanks for listening,  Charlene

>

>

>

>

> From: Carolflo@... <Carolflo@...>

> Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> rheumatic

> Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 6:45 AM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

> Ethel is completely correct!  Please listen to one of the most educated and

informed ladies I have ever met.

>

> The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus ! 

>

> #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t  control over OUR bodies and OUR lives. 

>

> #2  The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

FEMA, etc.

>

>        So we give them another shot at this plan ?  The government

makes socialistic decisions.

>

> #3  This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part of

the uninsured paid through

>

>        higher taxes.

>

> #4  This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

treatment ......... no way!

>

> Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ? 

Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten out a

problem with your healthcare service?  If you think dealing with insurance

companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed

!

>

> My opinion-

>

> Carol*  from ville, Florida

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just to let everyone know that I called my Congressman about this proposed

health care " reform " .

My Congressman is AGAINST the proposed reform. He indicated to me that he is

concerned that people will no longer be able to get the services, coverage they

have now....eventually we will be calling our Congress reprsentatives in

Washington about not getting what we need.

My Congressman is in our camp and is concerned that people will not be able to

get what they NEED. So look at everything before we agree or disagree. At this

time WE do not have ALL of the information that is being proposed.

We need to demand that ALL of the facts are known before our representatives

vote. If we sit here and complain but don't call our representatives to voice

our opinions and concerns, our silence indicates approval.

Just my thoughts...

Roni

Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> > rheumatic@grou> ps.com

> > Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 6:45 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

informed ladies I have ever met.

> >

> > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus !

> >

> > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives.

> >

> > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

FEMA, etc.

> >

> > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes socialistic

decisions.

> >

> > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part of

the uninsured paid through

> >

> > higher taxes.

> >

> > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

treatment ......... no way!

> >

> > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ?

Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten out a

problem with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with insurance

companies are bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed

!

> >

> > My opinion-

> >

> > Carol* from ville, Florida

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I traveled throughout Venezuela last November and was surprised to see what an

excellent & fair health care system this poor country had, for everyone..  And

if I required medical attention, as a 'foreigner', I would have received free

healthcare, anything from a fever to a heart attack.  Same with education.  I

could have enrolled & gotten an excellent education, a PhD, for free, as a

'foreigner'.

 

If roads & libraries can be provided for everyone, health care should be an easy

one.  So many more progressive countries would cover a US citizen's medical

problem while in their country.  Why can't we see health care is a basic human

right, for everyone?

 

If our corporate puppet leaders would stop wasting our money on corporate wars,

we'd have no problem providing health care, and have a more peaceful world. 

> I am on a government run health plan and I have no problems with it. I get

pretty darn good care. Unlike with the insurance companies with which I had to

deal while employed. I broke a hip and if I did not have the government plan I

could not have paid for this 35,000 dollar hip. I would have lost my home and

everything else that I had worked for in order to have a hip. In which case I

would have probably been better off dead. I have no qualms with Medicare. Right

now the Insurance companies and the big pharma's and the medical field in

general have control over you. Refuse what a doctor suggests for you and watch

how fast you will be sent a letter of dismissal. Try to get an insurance company

to pay for your MINOCIN for arthritis then scream about health reform in this

country. Ever wonder why so many of your doctors are foreign. I am sure it is

not because they love this country and want to practice medicine. Most come here

for the almighty dollar.

> Health Reform is exactly what we need. It is just too bad that the likes of

the Nut cases we have in Congress will get to do the bill. I would have trusted

Obama to make the plan long before I would have Congress. Congress is more

interested in lining their pockets than anything else. You want health reform

then stop paying the insurance companies and head for the emergency rooms. When

the insurance companies are not making BILLIONS in profit watch how little

attention they pay to reform. You complain about the banks and the bailout then

go take your money out of the banks and then they can go under for their

fraudulent ways without taxpayer bailouts. Your future is in your hands once you

get BIG BUSINESS out of the way.

> Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

>

>

>

>

> Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most educated and

informed ladies I have ever met.

>

> The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is disastorus !

>

> #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR lives.

>

> #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare, Fanny Mae,

FEMA, etc.

>

> So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government makes socialistic

decisions.

>

> #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a large part of

the uninsured paid through

>

> higher taxes.

>

> #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who gets

treatment ......... no way!

>

> Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any reason ? Imagine

sitting on the phone day after day to make attempts to stra ighten out a problem

with your healthcare service? If you think dealing with insurance companies are

bad then you are in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed !

>

> My opinion-

>

> Carol* from ville, Florida

>

>

[Guest guest]

Also remember that if the proposed health care system is changed, ALL of us are

going to see changes, even those who are currently receiving " good " care from

Medicare and Medicaid.

Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

rheumatic

Cc: Beckman

> Isn't Medicare and Medicaid going bankrupt? Isn't there a lot of fraud in both

of these plans? I believe I read something to that effect not to long ago, it

was 4 to 5 % which doesn't sound like much but it was in the billions of

dollars. Also I think Medicare/caid have contributed to the out of control

healthcare prices. I'm just sayin', if the government could run these two

programs (or any of their programs for that matter) soundly then I would be more

apt to believe this pie in the sky wonder healthcare they are going to provide

us for " free " .<BR><BR>> Sue

> ---- Beckman net> wrote:

> > You would not be dealing with the government under the bills now being

> > discussed or under (single payer). Under some call Obamacare, there

> > would be perhaps some small regulation of insurance companies (no pre-

> > existing conditions ruled out, if we are lucky). I now often sit on

> > the phone with my insurance company (but it's secondary to Medicare,

> > than God). I never need to speak to Medicare because my bills get paid

> > so smoothly. Those of us on Medicare and SS know that they are

> > wonderful though they are not perfect. I shudder to think what life

> > would be like without them. I'd like those of you on this list that

> > have traditional Medicare to speak out about how you feel about it!

> >

> > Traditional Medicare IS single payer (when it is not a Medicare

> > Advantage Plan run by an insurance company), and, as so many of us

> > know, we choose our own doctors and they make our medical decisions.

> > We won't be getting Medicare For All, however (that would be HR 676, a

> > bill that is being pushed by Rep Kucinich and which would be great for

> > us). Instead the for-profit insurance industry will remain in control

> > for the most part. There may be a public option, but that's not yet

> > spelled out. If we got it, it could be like Medicare, but more likely

> > will be a choice that those of us that can afford private insurance

> > will not want to make because it is likely to be weak--but it will

> > not control our bodies and our lives.

> >

> > Don't let yourselves believe this kind of demagoguery!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On Jul 25, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Carolflocomcast (DOT) > net wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most

> > > educated and informed ladies I have ever met.

> > >

> > > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is

> > > disastorus !

> > >

> > > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and OUR

> > > lives.

> > >

> > > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare,

> > > Fanny Mae, FEMA, etc.

> > >

> > > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government

> > > makes socialistic decisions.

> > >

> > > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a

> > > large part of the uninsured paid through

> > >

> > > higher taxes.

> > >

> > > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide that who

> > > gets treatment ......... no way!

> > >

> > > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any

> > > reason ? Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make

> > > attempts to stra ighten out a problem with your healthcare service?

> > > If you think dealing with insurance companies are bad then you are

> > > in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed !

> > >

> > > My opinion-

> > >

> > > Carol* from ville, Florida

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

The fraud in Medicare is not on the part of the govt but in the part

if the doctors. It is not going bankrupt though it does overspend

because doctors order too many tests, etc. Again, I wish those that

were on traditional Medicare (not Medicare Advantage) would speak out

about their experiences. Medicare and Medicaid are too entirely

different programs, run entirely differently. Medicaid is basically

run by the states. And I know the government can be fraudulent, and I

have o great trust in politicians.

On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:26 AM, rbarna dejazzd.com wrote:

>

> Also remember that if the proposed health care system is changed,

> ALL of us are going to see changes, even those who are currently

> receiving " good " care from Medicare and Medicaid.

>

> Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

> rheumatic

> Cc: Beckman

>

> > Isn't Medicare and Medicaid going bankrupt? Isn't there a lot of

> fraud in both of these plans? I believe I read something to that

> effect not to long ago, it was 4 to 5 % which doesn't sound like

> much but it was in the billions of dollars. Also I think Medicare/

> caid have contributed to the out of control healthcare prices. I'm

> just sayin', if the government could run these two programs (or any

> of their programs for that matter) soundly then I would be more apt

> to believe this pie in the sky wonder healthcare they are going to

> provide us for " free " .<BR><BR>> Sue

> > ---- Beckman net> wrote:

> > > You would not be dealing with the government under the bills now

> being

> > > discussed or under (single payer). Under some call Obamacare,

> there

> > > would be perhaps some small regulation of insurance companies

> (no pre-

> > > existing conditions ruled out, if we are lucky). I now often sit

> on

> > > the phone with my insurance company (but it's secondary to

> Medicare,

> > > than God). I never need to speak to Medicare because my bills

> get paid

> > > so smoothly. Those of us on Medicare and SS know that they are

> > > wonderful though they are not perfect. I shudder to think what

> life

> > > would be like without them. I'd like those of you on this list

> that

> > > have traditional Medicare to speak out about how you feel about

> it!

> > >

> > > Traditional Medicare IS single payer (when it is not a Medicare

> > > Advantage Plan run by an insurance company), and, as so many of us

> > > know, we choose our own doctors and they make our medical

> decisions.

> > > We won't be getting Medicare For All, however (that would be HR

> 676, a

> > > bill that is being pushed by Rep Kucinich and which would be

> great for

> > > us). Instead the for-profit insurance industry will remain in

> control

> > > for the most part. There may be a public option, but that's not

> yet

> > > spelled out. If we got it, it could be like Medicare, but more

> likely

> > > will be a choice that those of us that can afford private

> insurance

> > > will not want to make because it is likely to be weak--but it will

> > > not control our bodies and our lives.

> > >

> > > Don't let yourselves believe this kind of demagoguery!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On Jul 25, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Carolflocomcast (DOT) > net wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Ethel is completely correct! Please listen to one of the most

> > > > educated and informed ladies I have ever met.

> > > >

> > > > The healthcare plan that is being proposed for each American is

> > > > disastorus !

> > > >

> > > > #1 Obama's plan gives governmen t control over OUR bodies and

> OUR

> > > > lives.

> > > >

> > > > #2 The government has not done a good job running SS, Medicare,

> > > > Fanny Mae, FEMA, etc.

> > > >

> > > > So we give them another shot at this plan ? The government

> > > > makes socialistic decisions.

> > > >

> > > > #3 This plan will cover illegal aliens because this group is a

> > > > large part of the uninsured paid through

> > > >

> > > > higher taxes.

> > > >

> > > > #4 This plan will give the governme nt the right to decide

> that who

> > > > gets treatment ......... no way!

> > > >

> > > > Have you tried to contact a governme nt office lately for any

> > > > reason ? Imagine sitting on the phone day after day to make

> > > > attempts to stra ighten out a problem with your healthcare

> service?

> > > > If you think dealing with insurance companies are bad then you

> are

> > > > in for a rude awakening if this bill gets passed !

> > > >

> > > > My opinion-

> > > >

> > > > Carol* from ville, Florida

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I totally understand that comment. But you know what. I also don't

trust corporate America to do it.

Having worked for large corps and looked at their financials, it's clear

that their nature is to grow & keep the largess with the top echelon. I

can guarantee that corporations will not have our best interest in

mind. Even the insurance companies work that way.

Lets look at the Department of Housing and Urban Development, for

example. They provide mortgage insurance to protect private lenders

against risk of default. Did you know... they are completely self

sustaining? They are. That's what FHA financing is. Their funding is

not from the tax payer, but rather from premiums for the mortgages they

insure. They run a break-even operation. AND they survived during the

housing debacle because they did not permit risky mortgages that other

lenders were making.

Now personally, I believe that crooks and crooked deals will happen in

both government and corporate scenarios. Truly do. But if it happens

in the government, maybe we will have more recourse than if it happens

in public corporations. For example, all those executives at the top of

those mortgage companies got off scott free! A few got fired, but many

should have been jailed for the mess they caused. Unfortunately with a

government run plan, we will always those who allow Haliburton deals, etc.

semrick@... wrote:

>

>

>

>

> I don't disagree that reform is needed, I just don't trust the

> government to do it.

>

> Sue

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Hey all of you that don't want government run health care programs then opt out.

You let the lobbyist get through mandated car insurance and homeowners if you do

not have a clear title to your home so just let them keep telling you that you

have to pay exorbitant premiums, up your co-pays and which doctor you can visit.

I dealt with insurance companies while in the work force and believe me they

have the say in what is and isn't going to happen. My parents are on Medicare

and without it I am sure they would have been dead by now. They sure couldn't

have afforded to have dealt with insurance companies. My elderly neighbor pays

approx 98 dollars a month for her Medicare coverage but her insurance

supplemental costs her $200 a month. Medicare pays 80% of the cost while her

private insurance pays 80% percent of the what Medicare does not pay. Not much

bang for that 200 monthly premium buck. She pays 2400 dollars a year for her

private insurance. She lives below poverty level. Once she met her lifetime

benefits she was told that her insurance would no longer give her coverage.

Their lifetime and your lifetime are on 2 different clocks.

So you nay sayers convince me that this system is working.

Raise your hand if you have ties to the Insurance Mega Billions.

Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

That is wonderful that you- yourself- have no problems with your government

-run health plan. But it is not that way for all of us.

And if you do not want government health-care control for yourself- do you

really think all Americans should be forced into something they do not believe

in?

Carol*

[Guest guest]

I have never been the type to accept handouts. Guess once the " free " healthcare

system is in place I'm going to have to make some adjustments to my thinking,

going from an independent thinker to a drone. Ahhh... America at her best!

Sue

---- tssvol <tssvol@...> wrote:

> Hey all of you that don't want government run health care programs then opt

out. You let the lobbyist get through mandated car insurance and homeowners if

you do not have a clear title to your home so just let them keep telling you

that you have to pay exorbitant premiums, up your co-pays and which doctor you

can visit. I dealt with insurance companies while in the work force and believe

me they have the say in what is and isn't going to happen. My parents are on

Medicare and without it I am sure they would have been dead by now. They sure

couldn't have afforded to have dealt with insurance companies. My elderly

neighbor pays approx 98 dollars a month for her Medicare coverage but her

insurance supplemental costs her $200 a month. Medicare pays 80% of the cost

while her private insurance pays 80% percent of the what Medicare does not pay.

Not much bang for that 200 monthly premium buck. She pays 2400 dollars a year

for her private insurance. She lives below poverty level. Once she met her

lifetime benefits she was told that her insurance would no longer give her

coverage. Their lifetime and your lifetime are on 2 different clocks.

> So you nay sayers convince me that this system is working.

> Raise your hand if you have ties to the Insurance Mega Billions.

> Re: rheumatic OT: THE ONE WORD TO DESCRIBE OBAMACARE

>

>

>

>

> That is wonderful that you- yourself- have no problems with your government

-run health plan. But it is not that way for all of us.

>

> And if you do not want government health-care control for yourself- do you

really think all Americans should be forced into something they do not believe

in?

>

> Carol*

>

>