Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Wayne, My PLS symptoms began about 7 years ago. In 1999 I had a series of ECT treatments for major depression. They did help my depression, but they certainly did not affect the PLS symptoms. The progression continued at the same gradual pace. If the disease truly does destroy motor neurons as advertised, I don't think rebooting the ol' brain can do much for it. Kirk > > I wanted to remind the group of the ECT story that first broke last > December. It is about a man named Greg Hicok who has had PLS since > about 1993. He began using a wheelchair in 1997. In 2003, he began > ECT treatment for depression. He has since stopped using his > wheelchair and says that he is still stable. This was a very > remarkable turnaround. I have had some correspondance with Mr. > Hicoks wife Tammy through regular mail but not much. I had heard > that there was some ideas on doing a study or trial with this but my > impression is that the researchers are not that interested. No-one > knows why Mr. Hicok responded the way he did. It could be due to the > curing of his depression. But the only logical way to know if this > treatment usually used for mental disorders can also help treat > spasticity would be for others to try it. Otherwise we are just left > with unanswered questions. > > > http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005423.html > > After a six-year battle with Lou Gehrig's disease, Blackman Township > man is getting back on his feet > > > Friday, December 26, 2003 > > By Alison Barker > Staff Writer > > Greg Hicok hadn't seen the upstairs of his two-story Blackman > Township home in nearly six years until one day last summer. > > > From Our Advertiser > > > When he took his first step back up the stairs, the world Hicok used > to know slowly came back to him. > > Hicok, 45, and his family had always hoped -- but never imagined -- > he would walk again after a rare form of amyotrophic lateral > sclerosis forced him to start using a wheelchair in 1997. > > " I forgot the layout, " he said of the upstairs. Once upstairs, Hicok > began a painting and remodeling project with his wife, Tammy Hicok, > 44. > > Greg Hicok's ability to walk again came unexpectedly after treatment > he received for severe depression. It might lend new medical insight > for others with ALS, more commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease, > named for the legendary New York Yankees slugger who died from the > affliction in 1941 at age 37. > > " This is just the biggest gift ever, " Tammy Hicok said. " A lot of > people have been praying for us for years. I do think it's an answer > to prayers. " > > Greg Hicok continues treatments today and notices motor improvement > almost daily. > > He is circling his home's first floor with a walker more than 30 > times a day, totaling about a half mile at a time. > > " I'm his biggest cheerleader, " Tammy Hicok said. " I say, 'You did six > laps. Let's do six more.' " > > In 1995, Greg Hicok had to give up his career as an electrical > engineer when he was diagnosed with primary lateral sclerosis, a rare > form of ALS. > > His bed was moved to the living room area when he could no longer get > upstairs. > > The disease attacks motor neurons, progressively robbing its victims > of their strength. He had been experiencing a slow progression of > symptoms over eight years. > > The disease has been known to claim lives as fast as two years and as > slow as 30 years, but everyone faces a different progression. > > Those with primary lateral sclerosis progress slower as it involves > only the spinal cord and brain while ALS also involves those > components in addition to nerves. > > Greg Hicok says he has new hope this holiday season, a 180-degree > turn from last Christmas. > > " I can be a part of it rather than someone who sits on the sidelines, > shaking my head yes or no, " Greg Hicok said. " It makes me feel bad > for people who have it worse. " > > But with Greg Hicok's success, there might be a new medical insight > to help patients with the disease to walk again. > > " This totally changes his life and the effect this disease has in > life. And by making him more active, I believe it will prolong his > life, " said Greg Hicok's neurologist, Dr. Freeman. " It > prevents him from getting other illness from being immobile. " > > Freeman intends to document Greg Hicok's miraculous turn-around, > which is being linked to treatments he had last spring for severe > depression. > > " We tried every antidepressant there is, nothing was working, " said > Tammy Hicok, explaining her husband tried 13 different antidepressant > and medicine combinations. > > Greg Hicok decided to try electroconvulsive treatments as a last > resort to alleviate the depression, which Greg Hicok says partly was > caused by big changes in his life, including three of his four boys > growing up and moving away. > > The electroconvulsive treatments seems to have triggered neurons in > his brain in more ways than one: as a successful antidepressant and, > to Freeman's best guess, it altered neurons in Greg Hicok's brain and > spinal cord, which loosened up his muscles and mobility. > > " While Greg was still in the hospital after the second treatment, I > was massaging his legs, which I did often because the disease caused > his muscles to be stiff, spastic and painful, " Tammy Hicok said. " It > was then that I noticed his calf muscle was much more soft, supple > and I could move it, which is something I had not been able to do for > years. " > > Freeman says he contacted national experts on the disease, and they > say they have never seen anything like this before. > > " I think it's useful for selected cases of depression raising > interesting possibilities, " Freeman said. > > The treatment for depression involves using electrical energy to > cause brain convulsions, which in turn, alter neuro transmitters to > improve the depression. > > " This (electroconvulsive treatment) is not an awful vision people > think it is, " Tammy Hicok said. " We just wanted something to help the > depression. Not in my wildest dreams we thought this would happen. > > " I'm just glad to have my best friend back. " > > Greg Hicok has walked into rooms with his wife to surprise friends, > including their pastor the Rev. Ed Ross of First United Methodist > Church. > > " They said they wanted to show me something, " Ross said. " I watched > him walk into the room instead of ride in -- I was amazed. It wasn't > what I was expecting. " > > Ross says he sees Greg Hicok improve all the time. > > " Last Sunday, I sat behind them in the worship service, " Ross > said. " And when they began to sing everyone stood up and Greg usually > sits, but he stood up. " > > Tammy and Greg Hicok have four boys -- , 24, who is in the > Army, Rob, 22, Matt, 20, and , 16. > > , who still lives at home, says his dad's improvement > is " sweet. " > > While all of Greg Hicok's children have witnessed their dad live with > Lou Gehrig's disease, Hicok has lived through it since he was > about 8 years old. > > " It think it's great, " he said. " The coolest thing I see is that he > buttons his own buttons and he mows the lawn. " > > has ridden his bike alongside his dad in an electronic > wheelchair during three different journeys -- two along the East > Coast to Washington, D.C., and one 172-mile trek from Detroit to > Grand Rapids. > > When Greg Hicok was in Washington in 2000 for a " Day on the Hill, " an > event designed to promote awareness of ALS, he spoke to a Senate > subcommittee to pass a bill to help patients, which is now law. > > While Greg Hicok has had several ups and downs throughout the year, > he's bringing in the New Year on a good note. He has been > volunteering at disAbility Connections a couple times a week, which > he says has been big help. > > " God has given us a gift, " Tammy Hicok said, " and we aren't going to > waste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Thanks Kirk. I imagine that Dr Freeman (Greg Hicoks neuro) would like to talk to you. Can you say if your ECT was administered with bilateral or unilateral stimulation? Were the electrodes placed at the back of the skull or near the temporal region? There was some discussion that that had made a difference. Thanks again. Wayne > > > > I wanted to remind the group of the ECT story that first broke last > > December. It is about a man named Greg Hicok who has had PLS since > > about 1993. He began using a wheelchair in 1997. In 2003, he began > > ECT treatment for depression. He has since stopped using his > > wheelchair and says that he is still stable. This was a very > > remarkable turnaround. I have had some correspondance with Mr. > > Hicoks wife Tammy through regular mail but not much. I had heard > > that there was some ideas on doing a study or trial with this but > my > > impression is that the researchers are not that interested. No- one > > knows why Mr. Hicok responded the way he did. It could be due to > the > > curing of his depression. But the only logical way to know if > this > > treatment usually used for mental disorders can also help treat > > spasticity would be for others to try it. Otherwise we are just > left > > with unanswered questions. > > > > > > http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005423.html > > > > After a six-year battle with Lou Gehrig's disease, Blackman > Township > > man is getting back on his feet > > > > > > Friday, December 26, 2003 > > > > By Alison Barker > > Staff Writer > > > > Greg Hicok hadn't seen the upstairs of his two-story Blackman > > Township home in nearly six years until one day last summer. > > > > > > From Our Advertiser > > > > > > When he took his first step back up the stairs, the world Hicok > used > > to know slowly came back to him. > > > > Hicok, 45, and his family had always hoped -- but never imagined - - > > he would walk again after a rare form of amyotrophic lateral > > sclerosis forced him to start using a wheelchair in 1997. > > > > " I forgot the layout, " he said of the upstairs. Once upstairs, > Hicok > > began a painting and remodeling project with his wife, Tammy Hicok, > > 44. > > > > Greg Hicok's ability to walk again came unexpectedly after > treatment > > he received for severe depression. It might lend new medical > insight > > for others with ALS, more commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease, > > named for the legendary New York Yankees slugger who died from the > > affliction in 1941 at age 37. > > > > " This is just the biggest gift ever, " Tammy Hicok said. " A lot of > > people have been praying for us for years. I do think it's an > answer > > to prayers. " > > > > Greg Hicok continues treatments today and notices motor improvement > > almost daily. > > > > He is circling his home's first floor with a walker more than 30 > > times a day, totaling about a half mile at a time. > > > > " I'm his biggest cheerleader, " Tammy Hicok said. " I say, 'You did > six > > laps. Let's do six more.' " > > > > In 1995, Greg Hicok had to give up his career as an electrical > > engineer when he was diagnosed with primary lateral sclerosis, a > rare > > form of ALS. > > > > His bed was moved to the living room area when he could no longer > get > > upstairs. > > > > The disease attacks motor neurons, progressively robbing its > victims > > of their strength. He had been experiencing a slow progression of > > symptoms over eight years. > > > > The disease has been known to claim lives as fast as two years and > as > > slow as 30 years, but everyone faces a different progression. > > > > Those with primary lateral sclerosis progress slower as it involves > > only the spinal cord and brain while ALS also involves those > > components in addition to nerves. > > > > Greg Hicok says he has new hope this holiday season, a 180-degree > > turn from last Christmas. > > > > " I can be a part of it rather than someone who sits on the > sidelines, > > shaking my head yes or no, " Greg Hicok said. " It makes me feel bad > > for people who have it worse. " > > > > But with Greg Hicok's success, there might be a new medical insight > > to help patients with the disease to walk again. > > > > " This totally changes his life and the effect this disease has in > > life. And by making him more active, I believe it will prolong his > > life, " said Greg Hicok's neurologist, Dr. > Freeman. " It > > prevents him from getting other illness from being immobile. " > > > > Freeman intends to document Greg Hicok's miraculous turn-around, > > which is being linked to treatments he had last spring for severe > > depression. > > > > " We tried every antidepressant there is, nothing was working, " said > > Tammy Hicok, explaining her husband tried 13 different > antidepressant > > and medicine combinations. > > > > Greg Hicok decided to try electroconvulsive treatments as a last > > resort to alleviate the depression, which Greg Hicok says partly > was > > caused by big changes in his life, including three of his four boys > > growing up and moving away. > > > > The electroconvulsive treatments seems to have triggered neurons in > > his brain in more ways than one: as a successful antidepressant > and, > > to Freeman's best guess, it altered neurons in Greg Hicok's brain > and > > spinal cord, which loosened up his muscles and mobility. > > > > " While Greg was still in the hospital after the second treatment, I > > was massaging his legs, which I did often because the disease > caused > > his muscles to be stiff, spastic and painful, " Tammy Hicok > said. " It > > was then that I noticed his calf muscle was much more soft, supple > > and I could move it, which is something I had not been able to do > for > > years. " > > > > Freeman says he contacted national experts on the disease, and they > > say they have never seen anything like this before. > > > > " I think it's useful for selected cases of depression raising > > interesting possibilities, " Freeman said. > > > > The treatment for depression involves using electrical energy to > > cause brain convulsions, which in turn, alter neuro transmitters to > > improve the depression. > > > > " This (electroconvulsive treatment) is not an awful vision people > > think it is, " Tammy Hicok said. " We just wanted something to help > the > > depression. Not in my wildest dreams we thought this would happen. > > > > " I'm just glad to have my best friend back. " > > > > Greg Hicok has walked into rooms with his wife to surprise friends, > > including their pastor the Rev. Ed Ross of First United Methodist > > Church. > > > > " They said they wanted to show me something, " Ross said. " I watched > > him walk into the room instead of ride in -- I was amazed. It > wasn't > > what I was expecting. " > > > > Ross says he sees Greg Hicok improve all the time. > > > > " Last Sunday, I sat behind them in the worship service, " Ross > > said. " And when they began to sing everyone stood up and Greg > usually > > sits, but he stood up. " > > > > Tammy and Greg Hicok have four boys -- , 24, who is in the > > Army, Rob, 22, Matt, 20, and , 16. > > > > , who still lives at home, says his dad's improvement > > is " sweet. " > > > > While all of Greg Hicok's children have witnessed their dad live > with > > Lou Gehrig's disease, Hicok has lived through it since he was > > about 8 years old. > > > > " It think it's great, " he said. " The coolest thing I see is that he > > buttons his own buttons and he mows the lawn. " > > > > has ridden his bike alongside his dad in an electronic > > wheelchair during three different journeys -- two along the East > > Coast to Washington, D.C., and one 172-mile trek from Detroit to > > Grand Rapids. > > > > When Greg Hicok was in Washington in 2000 for a " Day on the Hill, " > an > > event designed to promote awareness of ALS, he spoke to a Senate > > subcommittee to pass a bill to help patients, which is now law. > > > > While Greg Hicok has had several ups and downs throughout the year, > > he's bringing in the New Year on a good note. He has been > > volunteering at disAbility Connections a couple times a week, which > > he says has been big help. > > > > " God has given us a gift, " Tammy Hicok said, " and we aren't going > to > > waste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 From correspondance with the Hicoks and talking to some of those that know them as well as discussing with an ALS researcher who also made contact with the Hicoks and Dr. Freeman, I'm convinced that he did have a substantial recovery due to ECT. Of course, I'm not an idiot. Why he had a recovery is very very much in doubt. Some of the reasons that I have heard are: 1. He didn't really have PLS (I find this one doubtful). 2. " His depression was worsening his neurological symptoms. Once the depression was removed, the neurological symptoms lightened up. " I find this one quite possible. He was in a wheelchair in 1997 and came out of it after ect in 2003. He reports that he didn't become depressed until " after " the wheelchair but who knows for sure. His wife corresponded that he still had problems with depression after the ECT treatment but that his neurological symptoms stayed constant and that as of October 04, he is still walking. 3. " The spasticity was reduced due to putting the motor neurons into a state of convulsion. " This I think means that the remaining neurons were putting out too high a signal and causing the muscles to contract too much. Reduce the signal and the contraction reduces. 4. It was the placebo effect. I find this one plausible but unlikely. He wasn't expecting a neurological comeback just relief from his depression. Whatever the cause and effect, the exact same experiment should be tried on others with PLS. That will help verify or not the effect that was seen in Greg Hicok. > > > > > > I wanted to remind the group of the ECT story that first broke > last > > > December. It is about a man named Greg Hicok who has had PLS > since > > > about 1993. He began using a wheelchair in 1997. In 2003, he > began > > > ECT treatment for depression. He has since stopped using his > > > wheelchair and says that he is still stable. This was a very > > > remarkable turnaround. I have had some correspondance with Mr. > > > Hicoks wife Tammy through regular mail but not much. I had heard > > > that there was some ideas on doing a study or trial with this but > > my > > > impression is that the researchers are not that interested. No- > one > > > knows why Mr. Hicok responded the way he did. It could be due to > > the > > > curing of his depression. But the only logical way to know if > > this > > > treatment usually used for mental disorders can also help treat > > > spasticity would be for others to try it. Otherwise we are just > > left > > > with unanswered questions. > > > > > > > > > http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005423.html > > > > > > After a six-year battle with Lou Gehrig's disease, Blackman > > Township > > > man is getting back on his feet > > > > > > > > > Friday, December 26, 2003 > > > > > > By Alison Barker > > > Staff Writer > > > > > > Greg Hicok hadn't seen the upstairs of his two-story Blackman > > > Township home in nearly six years until one day last summer. > > > > > > > > > From Our Advertiser > > > > > > > > > When he took his first step back up the stairs, the world Hicok > > used > > > to know slowly came back to him. > > > > > > Hicok, 45, and his family had always hoped -- but never imagined - > - > > > he would walk again after a rare form of amyotrophic lateral > > > sclerosis forced him to start using a wheelchair in 1997. > > > > > > " I forgot the layout, " he said of the upstairs. Once upstairs, > > Hicok > > > began a painting and remodeling project with his wife, Tammy > Hicok, > > > 44. > > > > > > Greg Hicok's ability to walk again came unexpectedly after > > treatment > > > he received for severe depression. It might lend new medical > > insight > > > for others with ALS, more commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease, > > > named for the legendary New York Yankees slugger who died from > the > > > affliction in 1941 at age 37. > > > > > > " This is just the biggest gift ever, " Tammy Hicok said. " A lot of > > > people have been praying for us for years. I do think it's an > > answer > > > to prayers. " > > > > > > Greg Hicok continues treatments today and notices motor > improvement > > > almost daily. > > > > > > He is circling his home's first floor with a walker more than 30 > > > times a day, totaling about a half mile at a time. > > > > > > " I'm his biggest cheerleader, " Tammy Hicok said. " I say, 'You did > > six > > > laps. Let's do six more.' " > > > > > > In 1995, Greg Hicok had to give up his career as an electrical > > > engineer when he was diagnosed with primary lateral sclerosis, a > > rare > > > form of ALS. > > > > > > His bed was moved to the living room area when he could no longer > > get > > > upstairs. > > > > > > The disease attacks motor neurons, progressively robbing its > > victims > > > of their strength. He had been experiencing a slow progression of > > > symptoms over eight years. > > > > > > The disease has been known to claim lives as fast as two years > and > > as > > > slow as 30 years, but everyone faces a different progression. > > > > > > Those with primary lateral sclerosis progress slower as it > involves > > > only the spinal cord and brain while ALS also involves those > > > components in addition to nerves. > > > > > > Greg Hicok says he has new hope this holiday season, a 180- degree > > > turn from last Christmas. > > > > > > " I can be a part of it rather than someone who sits on the > > sidelines, > > > shaking my head yes or no, " Greg Hicok said. " It makes me feel > bad > > > for people who have it worse. " > > > > > > But with Greg Hicok's success, there might be a new medical > insight > > > to help patients with the disease to walk again. > > > > > > " This totally changes his life and the effect this disease has in > > > life. And by making him more active, I believe it will prolong > his > > > life, " said Greg Hicok's neurologist, Dr. > > Freeman. " It > > > prevents him from getting other illness from being immobile. " > > > > > > Freeman intends to document Greg Hicok's miraculous turn- around, > > > which is being linked to treatments he had last spring for severe > > > depression. > > > > > > " We tried every antidepressant there is, nothing was working, " > said > > > Tammy Hicok, explaining her husband tried 13 different > > antidepressant > > > and medicine combinations. > > > > > > Greg Hicok decided to try electroconvulsive treatments as a last > > > resort to alleviate the depression, which Greg Hicok says partly > > was > > > caused by big changes in his life, including three of his four > boys > > > growing up and moving away. > > > > > > The electroconvulsive treatments seems to have triggered neurons > in > > > his brain in more ways than one: as a successful antidepressant > > and, > > > to Freeman's best guess, it altered neurons in Greg Hicok's brain > > and > > > spinal cord, which loosened up his muscles and mobility. > > > > > > " While Greg was still in the hospital after the second treatment, > I > > > was massaging his legs, which I did often because the disease > > caused > > > his muscles to be stiff, spastic and painful, " Tammy Hicok > > said. " It > > > was then that I noticed his calf muscle was much more soft, > supple > > > and I could move it, which is something I had not been able to do > > for > > > years. " > > > > > > Freeman says he contacted national experts on the disease, and > they > > > say they have never seen anything like this before. > > > > > > " I think it's useful for selected cases of depression raising > > > interesting possibilities, " Freeman said. > > > > > > The treatment for depression involves using electrical energy to > > > cause brain convulsions, which in turn, alter neuro transmitters > to > > > improve the depression. > > > > > > " This (electroconvulsive treatment) is not an awful vision people > > > think it is, " Tammy Hicok said. " We just wanted something to help > > the > > > depression. Not in my wildest dreams we thought this would > happen. > > > > > > " I'm just glad to have my best friend back. " > > > > > > Greg Hicok has walked into rooms with his wife to surprise > friends, > > > including their pastor the Rev. Ed Ross of First United Methodist > > > Church. > > > > > > " They said they wanted to show me something, " Ross said. " I > watched > > > him walk into the room instead of ride in -- I was amazed. It > > wasn't > > > what I was expecting. " > > > > > > Ross says he sees Greg Hicok improve all the time. > > > > > > " Last Sunday, I sat behind them in the worship service, " Ross > > > said. " And when they began to sing everyone stood up and Greg > > usually > > > sits, but he stood up. " > > > > > > Tammy and Greg Hicok have four boys -- , 24, who is in the > > > Army, Rob, 22, Matt, 20, and , 16. > > > > > > , who still lives at home, says his dad's improvement > > > is " sweet. " > > > > > > While all of Greg Hicok's children have witnessed their dad live > > with > > > Lou Gehrig's disease, Hicok has lived through it since he > was > > > about 8 years old. > > > > > > " It think it's great, " he said. " The coolest thing I see is that > he > > > buttons his own buttons and he mows the lawn. " > > > > > > has ridden his bike alongside his dad in an electronic > > > wheelchair during three different journeys -- two along the East > > > Coast to Washington, D.C., and one 172-mile trek from Detroit to > > > Grand Rapids. > > > > > > When Greg Hicok was in Washington in 2000 for a " Day on the > Hill, " > > an > > > event designed to promote awareness of ALS, he spoke to a Senate > > > subcommittee to pass a bill to help patients, which is now law. > > > > > > While Greg Hicok has had several ups and downs throughout the > year, > > > he's bringing in the New Year on a good note. He has been > > > volunteering at disAbility Connections a couple times a week, > which > > > he says has been big help. > > > > > > " God has given us a gift, " Tammy Hicok said, " and we aren't going > > to > > > waste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Wayne(and all), I was diagnosed " probable PLS " in July by Dr. Chas. Thornton at the University of Rochester Neuromuscular Clinic. (Is anyone else familiar with Dr. Thornton?) My symptoms began around 1997 in my left hand/arm and startle reflex, and progressed to left leg, right leg, right arm, speech and swallowing, in that order. At the time of the ECT treatments my legs were affected causing an unusual gait and falling. My ECT treatments, in January-February 2000, were for " profound " depression which had forced me to leave a management position a year earlier. I had been on antidepressants for 14 years prior to that. I received a series of 15 unilateral ECT treatments over a period of about 2 months. The surface electrodes were applied to the right side (above the ear) and the top of my head. I was very fortunate to not have any remarkable effects other than an improvement in my depression. I was told at the time that ECT was a " last resort " treatment used only in drug resistant patients. I can tell you two things about depression that apply; 1. Depression makes ANY bad condition worse! 2. NO treatment CURES depression! I have no doubt that depression contributed, to some degree, to Greg Hicok's symptoms. Not caused them, but added to the severity. Recovery from a serious depression episode can result in profound improvements in any other physical condition. Imagine going from " I know I can't, and if I could I don't deserve to " to " just maybe I CAN do this " . Sorry, I didn't mean to get on my soapbox. The ECT treatments had absolutely no noticeable effect on the progression of my PLS symptoms. Perhaps the method used, or intensity, or some other variable is a factor. Bad, very bad, side effects can result from these treatments. Until there are results from controlled tests, I'm afraid that I remain very skeptical. Kirk > > Thanks Kirk. I imagine that Dr Freeman (Greg Hicoks neuro) would > like to talk to you. Can you say if your ECT was administered with > bilateral or unilateral stimulation? Were the electrodes placed at > the back of the skull or near the temporal region? There was some > discussion that that had made a difference. Thanks again. > Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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