Guest guest Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 , The only pain that fish oil causes is when my wife scolds me for gaining weight. Fish oil is quite nourishing. There are 40 calories per 5 mL measuring spoon for the typical cooking oil, so the two measuring spoons of fish oil that I am now taking per day should add around 80 calories per day. Regards, Harald At 12:53 PM 3/25/03 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone found that taking too much fish oil can cause more pain? > > >(RA 25+ years, AP since Nov. 97) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 , I've been taking 3 tablespoons of Carlson's fish oil every morning for the past 6 months. I have not seen any increase in pain. I also take 800 IU of Vit. E. RA 18 years. AP 10 years. Regards, Bud Re: rheumatic OT: fish oil , The only pain that fish oil causes is when my wife scolds me for gaining weight. Fish oil is quite nourishing. There are 40 calories per 5 mL measuring spoon for the typical cooking oil, so the two measuring spoons of fish oil that I am now taking per day should add around 80 calories per day. Regards, Harald At 12:53 PM 3/25/03 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone found that taking too much fish oil can cause more pain? > > >(RA 25+ years, AP since Nov. 97) To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 Bud, that is what I would have expected. I started Arctic Omega cod liver oil from July 2002 to December and noticed more energy, but no effect on pain. In January, I switched to 1 tsp Sears oil daily and after 6 weeks even had a better CRP and ESR. Yesterday, I took 2 tsp and 400 IU Vit. E. Today, every part of me, was in pain, worse than I've been in a couple of months. I can't understand it! RE: rheumatic OT: fish oil > , > > I've been taking 3 tablespoons of Carlson's fish oil every morning for > the past 6 months. I have not seen any increase in pain. I also take > 800 IU of Vit. E. > > RA 18 years. > > AP 10 years. > > Regards, > > Bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 , This could be a Herx (bad things dying off) or a flare. You may want to return to 1 tsp of the Sears oil and see if the pain decreases. Bud Re: rheumatic OT: fish oil Bud, that is what I would have expected. I started Arctic Omega cod liver oil from July 2002 to December and noticed more energy, but no effect on pain. In January, I switched to 1 tsp Sears oil daily and after 6 weeks even had a better CRP and ESR. Yesterday, I took 2 tsp and 400 IU Vit. E. Today, every part of me, was in pain, worse than I've been in a couple of months. I can't understand it! RE: rheumatic OT: fish oil > , > > I've been taking 3 tablespoons of Carlson's fish oil every morning for > the past 6 months. I have not seen any increase in pain. I also take > 800 IU of Vit. E. > > RA 18 years. > > AP 10 years. > > Regards, > > Bud To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 Is the basis for this suggestion that fish oil somehow causes or promotes pain and/or a herx? Please say no and that I am misinterpreting this. ----Original Message Follows---- From: " Bud White " <bud.white@...> Reply-<bud.white@...> " 'Ken and ' " <kglg@...> CC: " 'rheumatic' " <rheumatic > Subject: RE: rheumatic OT: fish oil Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:16:34 +1000 , This could be a Herx (bad things dying off) or a flare. You may want to return to 1 tsp of the Sears oil and see if the pain decreases. Bud Re: rheumatic OT: fish oil Bud, that is what I would have expected. I started Arctic Omega cod liver oil from July 2002 to December and noticed more energy, but no effect on pain. In January, I switched to 1 tsp Sears oil daily and after 6 weeks even had a better CRP and ESR. Yesterday, I took 2 tsp and 400 IU Vit. E. Today, every part of me, was in pain, worse than I've been in a couple of months. I can't understand it! RE: rheumatic OT: fish oil > , > > I've been taking 3 tablespoons of Carlson's fish oil every morning for > the past 6 months. I have not seen any increase in pain. I also take > 800 IU of Vit. E. > > RA 18 years. > > AP 10 years. > > Regards, > > Bud To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 hi ...i haven't been keeping up with all of the posts lately have been not feeling well. but i just read this one and wanted to share something. about a year ago i tried a combination of oils because it was obvious i had inflammation and needed it. i tried it off and on for a month. got achey and flu like everytime. weird. i haven't tried it in a while. i'm sure there is an explanation. so when i saw your post it reminded me of my experience. take care. rachael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 Hi, I'm just a lurker, but the fish oil questions brings up another point that I have. Where do you find fish oil that is guaranteed to be mercury free? Thanks, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 Jeffery, everything I've read would suggest less pain should result from taking fish oil (I've never read anything about a herxheimer reaction and I believe this comes from a change in antibiotics). That is why I'm so puzzled as to what happened. I didn't take any fish oil yesterday and today, my pain levels are back to normal. I will go back to 1 tsp as I had been taking and perhaps try 2 tsp. again next week. I believe I read in Dr. Sears book that a balance of omega 3's and 6's is important; I don't eat a lot of fat in my diet. And this morning, I was wondering if taking Relafen along with the fish oil would be a problem although I don't really think so. Judging from the lack of response, I don't think anyone else in the group has experienced this. I just wish I understood what caused the sudden increase in pain. (RA 25+ years, AP since Nov. 97) RE: rheumatic OT: fish oil > Is the basis for this suggestion that fish oil somehow causes or promotes > pain and/or a herx? Please say no and that I am misinterpreting this. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 > Jeffery, everything I've read would suggest less pain should result from > taking fish oil (I've never read anything about a herxheimer reaction and I > believe this comes from a change in antibiotics). That is why I'm so > puzzled as to what happened. , Any weather changes? That might have caused the problem. RA is goofy as you well know. I sometimes think it is the weather, sometimes think it is a high pollen count or maybe you were overtired. It can be all kinds of things. Personally, I'd be very surprised if you found a connection to the fish oil. I am finding that taking 2-4 teaspoons of the highly concentrated stuff I take, is helping. I'm out doing 4 mile walks daily and feeling pretty decent overall. I think it takes a while for the fish oil to take effect and have only recently increased my dosage levels, so am eager to see what happens in the coming momths. This time of year (Spring/Summer) always raises havoc with me for whatever reason, so hoping this may help. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Hi ! Geoff here. You wrote: > pain. In January, I switched to 1 tsp Sears oil daily and after 6 weeks > even had a better CRP and ESR. Yesterday, I took 2 tsp and 400 IU Vit. E. > Today, every part of me, was in pain, worse than I've been in a couple of > months. I can't understand it! One might wonder if the Vitamin E (an anti-oxidant scavenger of free radicals, e.g., an enhancement to your immune system) has acted to aid you in your fight. Food for thought. Geoff soli Deo gloria " He deprives of intelligence the chiefs of the earth's people... " www.HealingYou.org - Your nonprofit source for remedies and aids in fighting these diseases, information on weaning from drugs, and nutritional kits for repairing adrenal damage; 100% volunteer staffed. (Courtesy of Captain Cook's www.800-800-cruise.com) J1224 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 , You may find the following research of interest INTERNATIONAL HEALTH NEWS DATABASE. Fish Oils and Rheumatoid Arthritis. Summaries of the latest research concerning fish oils and rheumatoid arthritis. ... http://www.oilofpisces.com/rheumatoidarthritis.html Best regards, Bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Patrice, I would not now worry about mercury in fish oils supplements. If you are worried, read labels or read product descriptions on the web. Look for statements like " molecularly distilled " or " free of detectable levels of mercury. " The following is from the web page http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/wl/wlAskExperts0203.html " Q: How much mercury is in fish-oil supplements? A: Tests of 20 fish-oil supplements carried out recently by ConsumerLab.com found no detectable mercury in any of them. But just because these 20 passed muster does not mean that the next batches will be okay -- or that other brands on the market are mercury-free. And another problem: though mercury-free, not all the supplements contained the levels of beneficial omega-3 fatty acids claimed on the labels. In addition, there are other potential contaminants that might be concentrated in fish oils -- PCBs and dioxins, to name two. No independent testing is done, as a rule; if you buy fish-oil capsules, you basically have to rely on the manufacturer's word. Eating fish is better than taking capsules: two servings a week, preferably of fatty fish, should supply the omega-3s you need. If you decide to take supplements, your best bet is to buy a brand that claims to have undergone " molecular distillation " (a process that removes contaminants). Some brands may be tested by an independent lab. This should all be stated on the label. " Also see the page http://consumerlab.com/results/omega3.asp " None of the twenty products were found to contain detectable levels of mercury [less than 1.5 parts per billion (ppb)]. By comparison, mercury levels in fish generally range from 10 ppb to 1,000 ppb, depending on the fish. There are several possible explanations for the lack of mercury in the supplements including: the use of species of fish that are less likely to accumulate mercury; the fact that most mercury is found in fish meat and not fish oil; and distillation processes that can remove contaminants. None of the products showed evidence of significant decomposition. " The following web page provides a wealth of information on fish oils by brand name: http://qualitycounts.com/fpfattyacids.html Regards, Harald At 01:03 PM 3/26/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, I'm just a lurker, but the fish oil questions brings up another point >that I have. Where do you find fish oil that is guaranteed to be mercury >free? Thanks, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 I am in complete agreement w/ Harald. Precautions are fine and we all have our own unique concerns for what we put in our mouths, but for me mercury in fish oil doesn't rank anywhere near the top. Sure, I'd rather not ingest Hg, but I also don't want the lead that's in my bones and the PCB's in my fat tissue. And I don't want to be exposed to the Cs-137 in my soil from fallout or the radon in the air that I breath or the arsenic in my soil from my pressure treated fence. The list goes on and on, as well all know but would rather not consider every day. My point is that we live and breath and work in a toxic world. Our bodies have adapted to a degree and reasonable efforts to minimize exposure make sense. But as I mentioned - I refuse to worry about. I'm betting that I die from something other than Hg poisoning, despite regularly sucking down fish oil caps. The day that I start worrying about all this will probably be the day that I start wrapping my burger in a lettuce leaf instead of a bun. That'll also be the day that I lose my second most treasured asset - perspective. Then just shoot me. Better yet, I'll start a web site, call myself a doctor, fill people with concerns they never knew they should have, dispense life saving advice, and make lots of money doing it. ----Original Message Follows---- From: " Harald Weiss, Technical Marketing Group " <hw@...> pkr527@...,rheumatic Subject: Re: rheumatic OT: fish oil Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 23:16:49 -0800 Patrice, I would not now worry about mercury in fish oils supplements. If you are worried, read labels or read product descriptions on the web. Look for statements like " molecularly distilled " or " free of detectable levels of mercury. " The following is from the web page http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/wl/wlAskExperts0203.html " Q: How much mercury is in fish-oil supplements? A: Tests of 20 fish-oil supplements carried out recently by ConsumerLab.com found no detectable mercury in any of them. But just because these 20 passed muster does not mean that the next batches will be okay -- or that other brands on the market are mercury-free. And another problem: though mercury-free, not all the supplements contained the levels of beneficial omega-3 fatty acids claimed on the labels. In addition, there are other potential contaminants that might be concentrated in fish oils -- PCBs and dioxins, to name two. No independent testing is done, as a rule; if you buy fish-oil capsules, you basically have to rely on the manufacturer's word. Eating fish is better than taking capsules: two servings a week, preferably of fatty fish, should supply the omega-3s you need. If you decide to take supplements, your best bet is to buy a brand that claims to have undergone " molecular distillation " (a process that removes contaminants). Some brands may be tested by an independent lab. This should all be stated on the label. " Also see the page http://consumerlab.com/results/omega3.asp " None of the twenty products were found to contain detectable levels of mercury [less than 1.5 parts per billion (ppb)]. By comparison, mercury levels in fish generally range from 10 ppb to 1,000 ppb, depending on the fish. There are several possible explanations for the lack of mercury in the supplements including: the use of species of fish that are less likely to accumulate mercury; the fact that most mercury is found in fish meat and not fish oil; and distillation processes that can remove contaminants. None of the products showed evidence of significant decomposition. " The following web page provides a wealth of information on fish oils by brand name: http://qualitycounts.com/fpfattyacids.html Regards, Harald At 01:03 PM 3/26/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, I'm just a lurker, but the fish oil questions brings up another point >that I have. Where do you find fish oil that is guaranteed to be mercury >free? Thanks, Patrice _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Patrice, The goal for anti-inflammatory therapy should be a daily intake of 3-6 grams of omega-3 fats (EPA and DHA). To achieve 3 grams of EPA and DHA, you would need to take 10 grams of cod liver oil per day, which is two 5 mL (milliliter) measuring teaspoons. You should see results quickly. Regards, Harald At 09:50 AM 3/27/03 -0500, you wrote: >Thank you so much for the information on the fish oil. I have been >wanting to add it to my regime, but was worried about contamination. > >One more question, I understand the dosage for cardiovascular health, but >what about to reduce inflammation for arthritis? Thanks, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2003 Report Share Posted April 13, 2003 , You are not the only one experiencing this! I recently upped my dose of fish oil. I too am taking Dr. Sears fish oil (capsules, because I can't stand the liquid). I was taking 4 caps a day (I think 5 = 1 tsp) and recently gradually increased to 8. I have had a significant increase in pain since doing that; the worst I have had in a long time. Someone mentioned weather changes a while back but I have never noticed that weather has any impact on me.... (I have RA) I didn't make the connection until this morning. I forgot to take the fish oil yesterday and this is the best that I have felt in a couple of weeks! I am going to experiment to verify this. Just wanted you to know that you are not the only one with these suspicions. Interesting that we are both taking Dr. Sears brand.... Regards, Ken and wrote: > Jeffery, everything I've read would suggest less pain should result from > taking fish oil (I've never read anything about a herxheimer reaction > and I > believe this comes from a change in antibiotics). That is why I'm so > puzzled as to what happened. I didn't take any fish oil yesterday and > today, my pain levels are back to normal. I will go back to 1 tsp as > I had > been taking and perhaps try 2 tsp. again next week. I believe I read > in Dr. > Sears book that a balance of omega 3's and 6's is important; I don't eat a > lot of fat in my diet. And this morning, I was wondering if taking > Relafen > along with the fish oil would be a problem although I don't really > think so. > Judging from the lack of response, I don't think anyone else in the group > has experienced this. I just wish I understood what caused the sudden > increase in pain. > > > (RA 25+ years, AP since Nov. 97) > > RE: rheumatic OT: fish oil > > > > Is the basis for this suggestion that fish oil somehow causes or > promotes > > pain and/or a herx? Please say no and that I am misinterpreting this. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2003 Report Share Posted April 13, 2003 Thank you for letting me know this, . The time I wrote about, I took Vit. E along with the extra fish oil. I don't normally take that vitamin. Last week I tried again for 3 days to take 2 tsp., this time without the vitamin E. The result was extreme fatigue/weakness (and definitely less pain) which stopped when I went back to 1 tsp. on the 4th day. The only thing that makes a little sense to me as to why this would happen is Dr. Sears' chart of symptoms which indicates that fatigue can be a sign of a change in the number of good and bad eicosinoids. But for the level of inflammation I have, I really can't understand this reaction. The reaction was so extreme that I had to stop the extra teaspoon because by the 3rd day, I couldn't do much. Let me know how your experiment goes. Take care, Re: rheumatic OT: fish oil , You are not the only one experiencing this! I recently upped my dose of fish oil. I too am taking Dr. Sears fish oil (capsules, because I can't stand the liquid). I was taking 4 caps a day (I think 5 = 1 tsp) and recently gradually increased to 8. I have had a significant increase in pain since doing that; the worst I have had in a long time. Someone mentioned weather changes a while back but I have never noticed that weather has any impact on me.... (I have RA) I didn't make the connection until this morning. I forgot to take the fish oil yesterday and this is the best that I have felt in a couple of weeks! I am going to experiment to verify this. Just wanted you to know that you are not the only one with these suspicions. Interesting that we are both taking Dr. Sears brand.... Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Dear Group, Fish oil is better. A brief Google search on the search term FISH OIL vs. FLAX SEED OIL brings up pages like the following: http://www.mind1st.co.uk/Flax_Seed_Oil_v_Fish_Oil.asp " Fish oil contains two omega-3 fatty acids known as eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Flaxseed oil, on the other hand, is rich in alpha-linolenic acid, which is the parent fatty acid to DHA and EPA. Although similar in structure, the benefits of alpha-linolenic acid, EPA, and DHA are not the same. Your body converts alpha-linolenic acid rapidly into EPA, and more slowly into DHA. Roughly 11 grams of alpha-linolenic acid are needed to produce one gram of DHA and EPA. However, other foods in your diet can easily put the brakes on this conversion process. A diet that's rich in trans-fatty fatty acids, for instance, will interfere with the conversion of alpha-linolenic acid into EPA and DHA. Trans-fatty acids are found in foods such as cookies, some types of margarine, chips, cakes, and popcorn. When you see hydrogenated oil on the ingredients label of a food, there are probably some trans-fatty acids in there somewhere. " http://www.omega-3-fish-oil-guide.com/Fish_oil_vs_flax_seed_oil.html " ...This has led to the fish oil vs flax seed oil debate. You see, flax seed oil is rich in omega 3's just as fish oils are. So, to answer the question about flax oil vs fish oil, we need to dig a little deeper, because there is not always a clear-cut answer... First, the type of omega 3's vary in each. In flax seed oil, the omega 3's come in the form of ALA. In fish oils, they come in the form of DHA and EPA. ALA needs to be converted by the body into DHA and EPA. This conversion does not always happen easily or smoothly for people, particularly those people with less than optimal health, which often includes elderly folk. For this reason, many (including us here) argue that high quality fish oils are a better source of omega 3's than flax seed oil because you are getting DHA and EPA directly without need for conversion. " Sincerely, Harald At 09:39 PM 12/17/2006, karsten lee wrote: >what do you guys think about FISH OIL vs. FLAX SEED OIL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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