Re: Methotrexate Study

April 7, 2004

In a message dated 4/7/2004 8:54:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,

paula.peden@... writes:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/472631?mpid=27038

When I doubled my dose by taking two injections in one week, it helped for

two days that week instead of one. However, in general, it has done nothing to

improve my RA. The antibiotics the past 11 days has done far more already.

jill

April 12, 2004

> In a message dated 4/7/2004 8:54:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> paula.peden@s... writes:

> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/472631?mpid=27038

> When I doubled my dose by taking two injections in one week, it

helped for

> two days that week instead of one. However, in general, it has

done nothing to

> improve my RA. The antibiotics the past 11 days has done far more

already.

>

> jill

I think methotrexate like many other things we take for RA is highly

individualistic. By the very nature of this group, it is most

likely that one will find people here that have failed on

methotrexate. Yet, statistics would suggest that it does work quite

well for many people (although to be sure, it is only ameliorating

symptoms and not getting to the root cause). I've used it with good

results for 5 years and have reduced my sed rate to normal and my

rheumatoid factor to 40 from a high of 305 (not that labs mean a

thing). I do think it would be the avenue of choice, should

antibiotics fail for whatever reason (no sense in enduring full

blown joint damage) over choosing the biologicals (Enbrel,

Remicade,etc) which have not been out long enough to be merited as

fully safe. (I do think that Babs use of UC-II sounds quite

interesting, but again, it may be an individualistic thing - I

intend to give it a try and see if I can reduce my metho intake).

That said, I still think any newly diagnosed individual with RA

should go the antibiotic route to begin with and with good fortune,

will overcome the disease. For some, merely taking the antibiotics

will work, others may need to follow other suggested approach

methods in conjunction with them. The variables can become a bit

daunting (and perplexing as to what is really affecting the

cure),thus the hope is that the antibiotics will do the trick by

themselves.

Mark

April 12, 2004

Hi Mark,

I agree that all the meds work differently for different people. I was doing

quite well on Remicade (along with MTX and prednisone) until I got an

infection and then everything went haywire. Haven't had any Remicade since

January,

and will never use it again. I was literally afraid I'd die of septicemia.

Seen it happen to people.

I still take MTX (although only once a week) and prednisone, but have added

doxycycline which has made a major improvement in my condition in only two

weeks. It was only after I was going down hill so rapidly this spring that I

even

learned about AP. I've devoured thousands and thousands of pages of info in

the past two months and wish I'd been told about this in the beginning. Sadly

I wasn't, but that's behind me now.

Everyone has to educate themselves in all the possibilities and choose what

works for their body and can be accepted by them mentally also. I think

believing in what you are doing is right for you is a tremendous boost in its

efficacy. Blindly doing only what's offered is not an option in my book at this

point. Although I must say when I was first diagnosed that's exactly what I

did.

I was in so much agony I couldn't think, and so depressed that just getting

out of bed was all but impossible. Everything was overwhelming, even the

slightest day to day problem. Now I feel much better and am able to control

what

I'm putting in my body, and it's making a big difference.

I'm also convinced there are many things in the food we eat that are

definitely contributing factors to our ills. I'm very impressed with all I've

read

about the virgin coconut oil. I ordered some as well as the baby silk lotion

and received it last Friday. In that short time, I am amazed at the changes in

my skin. Even the Dr. was impressed today. If the lotion makes the outside

that healthy, I can't help but think the oil will have similar effects on the

inside.

<<I do think it would be the avenue of choice, should

antibiotics fail for whatever reason (no sense in enduring full

blown joint damage) over choosing the biologicals (Enbrel,

Remicade,etc) which have not been out long enough to be merited as

fully safe.>> " It " being Methotrexate, I will say it's still just a

bandaid. It won't prevent the disease from progressing and causing a lot of

damage.

Of course, by the time my diagnosis was made, the damage was pretty much

done. The MTX just helps with some of the pain. It's an antimetabolite, which

means it can block the metabolism of cells. They're not really sure how MTX

works in RA, but it may be because it alters some aspects of the immune system,

and RA is of course considered an autoimmune disease.

medicine.net says " Patients with underying immune deficiency diseases should

not receive MTX. " I do have hypothyroidism also, diagnosed years ago, and the

doctor knew this from day one, yet he still prescribed the MTX. I guess I'm

just lucky it never caused the infection problems which Remicade did. Another

example of something that works for one and not for others.

Jill

April 12, 2004

> Hi Mark,

> I agree that all the meds work differently for different people.

I was doing

> quite well on Remicade (along with MTX and prednisone) until I got

an

> infection and then everything went haywire. Haven't had any

Remicade since January,

> and will never use it again. I was literally afraid I'd die of

septicemia.

> Seen it happen to people.

>

> I still take MTX (although only once a week) and prednisone, but

have added

> doxycycline which has made a major improvement in my condition in

only two

> weeks.

Yes, even my rheumie has become nervous about Remicade and Enbrel.

Has even seen a patient contract MS. I've been lucky - very little

progression of joint damage while I've been on metho, so it has been

a good " bandaid " for me so far. And I don't think it has the dangers

of infection that the biologicals (Enbrel, Remicade) have, which

suppress tumor necrosis factor, a protein that protects us from

infection. Metho has been studied for so many years, they pretty

much know how it affects most people, although I'm sure there are

individuals who can be susceptible to problems with it as well (some

of whom are on this very list). I've been lucky and never had to

take prednisone except for once, when my rheumie foolishly tried to

take me off of metho suddenly. I took a 10 day dosepack which

quickly brings you down to zero without killing you. I know you

have to wean very slowly off of Prednisone, if you've been on it

long term. I'm going to give uc-II (chicken collagen) a try and see

if it does anything for me and try simultaneously to back down off

my metho slowly (currently at 17.5mg/week). Figure it can't hurt to

try and it has put Babs from the list into remission. I hope that

the antibiotics do the trick for you! I also try to watch what goes

down the pipes as well. I consume a lot of wild salmon, organic

veggies, take fish oil and have started using coconut oil to cook

with now. I think it all helps. (Exercise is another ingredient

which seems to get the short shrift from most rheumies, yet is

vitally important in fighting off this disease)

Mark

April 13, 2004

Mark,

How do you know that you are getting 'wild' salmon? Do you catch it

yourself? Just curious....I love fish, but I have also heard that farm

bred fish are not so healthy.

BTW everyone,

I also take cal/mag/D, Iron, Vit. C, Vit. B complex, and Vit. E for my

marginal cholesterol. And I go to the gym 5 days a week. It keeps me

healthy. And lately I have noticed that my muscles are starting to look

nice and strong. So, it is rewarding in many ways. I eat an all

natural diet with organic veggies and fruit, nuts, and fresh peanut

butter on salt free brown rice cakes is good when I am on the run.

Plus, I juice once a day which has amazing affects. I have to cheat and

eat a small amount of cheese every few days just to satisfy my inner

mouse. Since instituting this new regimen for about 4-5 weeks, I have

lost 15 lbs and my skin is so much plumper (wrinkles have faded

considerably). I am only 31 years old, and I looked about 38-40 I

guess. My hair is even healthier looking. I think I am in the best

shape I have been in since I was 14 years old. Unfortunately, my chest

is still about the same size. It's funny, I haven't found any

vegetables to make my chest bigger....unless I actually put them in my

shirt. Heh, heh. Just a harmless joke guys.

I hope everyone is feeling better and Spring brings relief to you all.

Mel

rheumatic Re: Methotrexate Study