Re: Ready to quit, plz help

August 2, 2004

Can you please tell us exactly what you are both eating, including

preparation method.

It's very hard to guess what could be going on without more

details.

Also, what probiotic did you introduce?

Jody

mom to -5 and -7

SCD 18 months

August 2, 2004

We are both dairy free. Analeasa eats:

Stewed (overcooked) free range dark meat chicken, pureed

SCD lima beans, overcooked, pureed

SCD split peas, overcooked, pureed

SCD lentils, overcooked, pureed

Summer & Winter(less) squash, overcooked, chunky pureed

Sweet peas, overcooked, pureed

carrots (rarely), overcooked, pureed

(or occasionally left in sticks, overcooked, for finger food)

spinach, overcooked, pureed

avocado, mashed or cubed

pears, apples, mango, bluberries, blackberries, strawberries,

cherries, apricots, and rarely prunes, all overcooked, pureed

She doesn't get as much fruit as she used to

Cod Liver Oil (only last week)

Water (filtered, boiled)

Breastmilk (not much anymore)

I eat:

Chicken, beef, pork (less), lamb (rarely), fish (very rarely), all

cooked to done=stewed, burgers, roast, etc.

Chicken sausage, SCD fried

nuts, baked with honey and salt,

almond flour in a BTVC reduced egg muffins or waffles

salad greens, spinach, etc

peppers, cucumbers, beets (all occasional lately)

tomatoes, onions, hot peppers (removed 2+ weeks ago)

apple, pear, cherry sauce/butter (no other ingredients),

also rarely raw

Coconut, olive, sunflower, safflower oil

vinegars (white wine, cider)

the occasional bite of Analeasa's food to test doneness/temp/ " help "

raisins, prunes, coconut, apricots (dried, unsulphured)

Various supplements (all but one is legal, and I'm switching soon)

Water, occasionally juice with seltzer water

occasionally legal distilled liquor or wine

Communion weekly (VERY minute crumb of bread and sip port)

I have tested the following and had bad gas and/or cramps/nausea:

Cabbage family foods

SCD beans (besides those above--Tested IgG reaction to kidney)

tried to remove onions, tomatoes, spicy foods recently for Analeasa's

sake

I introduced the Lactobacillus rhamnosus (subspecies of L. casei)

about 2 weeks ago.

I hope someone has some thoughts

We have trouble sleeping, have dark circles under our eyes even though

we have been faithfully strick for the entirety of the 2 months (while

enduring more than necessary scrutiny from sceptical family and friends).

I need answers, I'm just that type. Thanks to anyone who wants to

help. We have both improved on this diet, but now I see too much

regression--not normal intro die-off).

Oriel & Analeasa (ADD)

IBS SCD 2 mo

> Can you please tell us exactly what you are both eating, including

> preparation method.

>

> It's very hard to guess what could be going on without more

> details.

>

> Also, what probiotic did you introduce?

>

> Jody

> mom to -5 and -7

> SCD 18 months

August 2, 2004

oh, I also eat:

garlic, herbs, spices

celery

berries

nut butters

squash

carrots

Tried green beans--to gassy.

I'm intolerant of:

Dairy

Gluten

eggs

bananas

kidney beans

pineapple

asparagus

cranberries

She hasn't been tested. EDS this week--here's praying for answers.

Oriel

> > Can you please tell us exactly what you are both eating, including

> > preparation method.

> >

> > It's very hard to guess what could be going on without more

> > details.

> >

> > Also, what probiotic did you introduce?

> >

> > Jody

> > mom to -5 and -7

> > SCD 18 months

August 2, 2004

Oriel,

Many of the foods that you listed for both of you are not typically

eaten just two months into the diet. The probiotic you mentioned

is not a strain that Elaine recommends.

Have you been to pecanbread.com? There is a chart on the

Food Preparation page that shows what we have seen to be the

easiest to digest foods. They are arranged in a chart from

easiest to hardest to digest. This is not required for following

SCD, but this is just what we have seen to be true for most

people starting the diet.

http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html

Click on the link that says " Beyond the Intro Diet " .

How did you begin the diet? Did you start with the intro and

slowly introduce new foods one at a time to test for your (both of

you) tolerance to the foods?

Jody

mom to -5 and -7

SCD 18 months

August 2, 2004

It could be the probiotic. I think Elaine only recommends the

Lactobacillus Acidophilus. You may want to try and eliminate that

for a few days and start the acidophilus, Custom Probiotics.

Too many berries could be a problem with phenol issues sounds like

also. My son cannot handle too many berries at all. Also, avocado

really makes him loopy. Melons of any kind make him really bad, like

whiny crying, dark circles, belly hurting, diarrhea, etc.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, how do you make the chicken

sausage? I need a good sausage recipe, not pork.

Please don't quit the diet just yet. It is so hard those first 3

months, but it does get better, really. I would stay away from too

much fruit and honey right now. Just my thoughts. Hope you get

better. What kind of problems do you have, as the mom? If you have

gastro problems, nuts are probably not a good idea yet for you. Just

the nut flours, and not too much of them.

I have recently started adding some yogurt and am seeing some good

things, mixed with some die off reactions, but I am going to keep

with it.

Tina

> > Can you please tell us exactly what you are both eating,

including

> > preparation method.

> >

> > It's very hard to guess what could be going on without more

> > details.

> >

> > Also, what probiotic did you introduce?

> >

> > Jody

> > mom to -5 and -7

> > SCD 18 months

August 2, 2004

yes, I have been to pecanbread.com

I am well versed in all the SCD websites, especially Elaine's own. I

have introduced the probiotic because it was a gift (an expensive one

too) and as Elaine says, if you feel like it is doing more good than

harm...that's your decision--and it has been for my body, I just

didn't think that a small amount of inulin (controversial topic

anyway) in my own intestines (especially since it has had no ill

effects to my sensitive gut), would have a diarrhea affect in my child's.

I started the diet with the intro, Modified to avoid eggs and my known

allergens. Then when things cleared, 2-3 days, I moved on. I have been

progressing in the way of the chart you recommended and have just been

quicker with some things than others. Only the beans, cabbage family,

problems so far. Nothing with her though.

Like I said this is not an intro die-off reaction. It's new at 1 month

of being very improved.

Analeasa's moved to the lima, split pea lentils, because her protien

has been non existent til then. Still she did fine on all of it till 1

month into it. I don't see how after a month of the same foods she

would Start having diarrhea/constipation out of the blue that lasts

for 3 weeks. Worse than before removing the starches all

together--which was gradual before actually even starting the SCD

legal days.

do you see why I'm so baffled. I'm not that thick. I have read all the

book/website info. Otherwise I wouldn't be asking here.

> Oriel,

>

> Many of the foods that you listed for both of you are not typically

> eaten just two months into the diet. The probiotic you mentioned

> is not a strain that Elaine recommends.

>

> Have you been to pecanbread.com? There is a chart on the

> Food Preparation page that shows what we have seen to be the

> easiest to digest foods. They are arranged in a chart from

> easiest to hardest to digest. This is not required for following

> SCD, but this is just what we have seen to be true for most

> people starting the diet.

>

> http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html

> Click on the link that says " Beyond the Intro Diet " .

>

> How did you begin the diet? Did you start with the intro and

> slowly introduce new foods one at a time to test for your (both of

> you) tolerance to the foods?

>

> Jody

> mom to -5 and -7

> SCD 18 months

August 2, 2004

Oriel,

Even if you have seen much improvement for a while, you can still see more

die-off. Some of the colonies of gut pathogens can survive and hang on for quite

a while. Many SCD parents have seen die-off come in cycles off and on for

months. Thing is, too..... when some of the really deeply entrenched bad guys

finally let go and " move on " , they can leave behind very sensitive, basically

" raw " tissue in the gut, where they were attached. That's maybe why you can see

some issues rise up with digestibility of foods that were not causing any

problems before. So.... sometimes you have to pull back to a simpler diet of

foods that are generally easier to digest..... until symptoms abate.

Regarding the probiotic, you're right..... it is your choice. You are the only

one taking it, right? You're not giving it to her? Anyway..... if someone is

having problems, we just always encourage them to pull out ALL illegals.....

even if you *think* they're not the culprit...... see if things improve over a

period of time (maybe several weeks), then add them back if you feel comfortable

doing it, and see what happens. But, you're right, that's your decision to make.

Patti, mom to Katera

Re: Ready to quit, plz help

<<Ihave introduced the probiotic because it was a gift (an expensive one too)

and as Elaine says, if you feel like it is doing more good than

harm...that's your decision>>

<<I have been progressing in the way of the chart you recommended and have

just been quicker with some things than others.>>

<<Like I said this is not an intro die-off reaction. It's new at 1 month of

being very improved.>>

<<Still she did fine on all of it till 1

month into it. I don't see how after a month of the same foods she would Start

having diarrhea/constipation out of the blue that lasts

for 3 weeks.>>

August 2, 2004

The Acidophilus is a Recommendation as I understand it. not a

legality. As far as I understood there wasn't a bacteria strain that

was a di/polysaccharide in itself.

The beans and lentils are her only form of protein besides the small

amount of chicken that she tolerates at this point. that's the only

reason why she's had them at all yet. But, still I don't understand

why you would " pull all the beans and lentils " when they have been

just fine for a whole month. Maybe you know. I'm can't take away that

much protein from her diet--she is rather small and needs it badly.

Also, as I understood it from Pecanbread.com, and all the other

websites and from Elaine in the book, the introduction of new foods is

not to be taken in a time schedule, but rather to be based on ones own

improvement on the diet. I have followed this regimen as stated in the

book. My own improvement has indeed been quicker than my daughters,

but I still see some problematic foods for myself and I am mostly a

meat eater anyway. so those other things that are considered later

foods are once a day things anyway. ie a salad one day, a couple

muffins another, etc.

Still die-off?? when the original dieoff had ceased at least a month

earlier? Let me restate. She has progressed on this diet for more than

a month. and then, high fever accompanied by 3 weeks of sticky to

watery diarrhea in considerably lessery quanities than she has eaten.

I waited on the probiotic and pulled the supplement for a while when I

searched for answers on that. Elaine herself says that if the small

amount of illegal is far outweighed by the benefits, that is your

choice to make. And so I have. How could the minutest amount of not so

concernable (Elaine's sentiments) illegal in my own intestine be

causing the diarrhea in my daughter 1 month later when we've already

seen signs of healing in her?

> Oriel,

> Your probiotic is not SCD legal. Acidophilus only is what Elaine

recommends. If there is diarrhea present, I would pull all the beans

and lentils. Are you straining the skins out.... from the lentils and

peas? Are you straining all the seeds out of the berries? The skins

from the blueberries? You've only been SCD for a relatively short time

(you said 2 months?)..... but your daughter is eating things that

really should not be introduced until much later (such as the beans).

And you are eating dried fruit already..... plus a lot of other things

that are considered later stage foods. You need to allow much more

time for healing before progressing on to some of these more difficult

to digest foods. Also, at 2 months in, you could still be seeing die-off.

>

> I would go back to square one, though, and get legal (pull that

probiotic for one thing). You said << we have been faithfully strick

>> ... and yet, you've got some illegals in there. You said one of

your other supplements is not legal, right? That really CAN make a big

difference and hold up the entire healing process for some people.

>

> Patti, mom to Katera, SCD 14 months

> Re: Ready to quit, plz help

>

> We have trouble sleeping, have dark circles under our eyes even though

> we have been faithfully strick for the entirety of the 2 months (while

> enduring more than necessary scrutiny from sceptical family and

friends).

>

> I need answers, I'm just that type. Thanks to anyone who wants to

> help. We have both improved on this diet, but now I see too much

> regression--not normal intro die-off).

> Oriel & Analeasa (ADD)

> IBS SCD 2 mo

>

August 2, 2004

Oriel,

It is obvious that you are very upset about all of this. I am sorry

that things are not going well right now.

When she had the high fever and the problem began-- that's the

point at which going back to the beginning would have been my

first suggestion if you had posted the question then.

Is there a chance she had a viral infection of some sort? How

long did the fever last? What were the initial symptoms of being

sick besides the fever?

We are doing our best to help you and what we have seen to

help before was for people to go back to eating easier to digest

foods. We can't see your daughter, nor can we examine her

throroughly to be sure that she isn't ill. We are just doing our

best.

What happens if you feed her more chicken for protein?

From the information I can find, she needs 1.2 g of protein for

every kg that she weighs. (Divide pounds by 2.2 to get her

weight in kg). My guess would be that at 18 months, she might

weigh around 25 pounds which would be 11.3kg x 1.2 g of

protein would be a little over 13g of protein.

Just slightly over 1/3 cup of chicken per day would provide 13g of

protein. So, it's not very much chicken that she would have to eat

in a day to get the minimum amount of protein she needs.

You also mentioned that she has nasal congestion and

drainage. That would suggest to me that she is ill. Either viral

(cold) or bacterial (sinus infection). We have seen that when

people get ill, their digestion is not as good and we suggest they

return to simpler, easier to digest foods while they recuperate.

Jody

mom to -5 and -7

SCD 18 months

> > Oriel,

> > Your probiotic is not SCD legal. Acidophilus only is what

Elaine

> recommends. If there is diarrhea present, I would pull all the

beans

> and lentils. Are you straining the skins out.... from the lentils

and

> peas? Are you straining all the seeds out of the berries? The

skins

> from the blueberries? You've only been SCD for a relatively

short time

> (you said 2 months?)..... but your daughter is eating things that

> really should not be introduced until much later (such as the

beans).

> And you are eating dried fruit already..... plus a lot of other

things

> that are considered later stage foods. You need to allow much

more

> time for healing before progressing on to some of these more

difficult

> to digest foods. Also, at 2 months in, you could still be seeing

die-off.

> >

> > I would go back to square one, though, and get legal (pull

that

> probiotic for one thing). You said << we have been faithfully

strick

> >> ... and yet, you've got some illegals in there. You said one of

> your other supplements is not legal, right? That really CAN

make a big

> difference and hold up the entire healing process for some

people.

> >

> > Patti, mom to Katera, SCD 14 months

> > Re: Ready to quit, plz help

> >

> > We have trouble sleeping, have dark circles under our eyes

even though

> > we have been faithfully strick for the entirety of the 2 months

(while

> > enduring more than necessary scrutiny from sceptical

family and

> friends).

> >

> > I need answers, I'm just that type. Thanks to anyone who

wants to

> > help. We have both improved on this diet, but now I see too

much

> > regression--not normal intro die-off).

> > Oriel & Analeasa (ADD)

> > IBS SCD 2 mo

> >

August 2, 2004

Thank you for your insight. I don't know much about phenols, I just

know that some are sensitive--semes most people don't say

how--diarrhea without other symptoms? She has dark Circles for sure.

So do I. I have always been picked on for it too. I have yet to find a

comprehensive list of phenolic foods and why/how they affect people.

Symptoms, etc.

She doesn't do much fruit right now. one small portion 3-4 times a

week. and I may do a very small portion each day, applesauce, dried

prune, grapes in my chicken salad. Honey is researved for baked nuts

(for emergencies--no food means mom's feeling sick) and muffins and

such. I guess I should avoid the nuts and dried fruit unless I really

need them, quick protien is hard to find though--that's what we thrive

on.

If you are not opposed to pre-made food from a company who caters to

food sensitivites, Hans makes great Antibiotic-free Chicken and lamb

sausages. Totally legal. And they have them in precooked (italian

sausage style) or cook your own (breakfast or larger). My husband

doesn't care for the uncooked ones--too greasy and not as good of

flavor. I don't eat them.

my favorite chicken sausage has in it:

Chicken, roasted red and green peppers, fennel, mustard, black pepper,

paprika, salt, red pepper, in a natural pork casing--guess you'd have

to ask if they have something else for that--maybe lamb.

Are you using the nut yogurt or dairy. We can't do the dairy.

Thanks again,

Oriel

> It could be the probiotic. I think Elaine only recommends the

> Lactobacillus Acidophilus. You may want to try and eliminate that

> for a few days and start the acidophilus, Custom Probiotics.

>

> Too many berries could be a problem with phenol issues sounds like

> also. My son cannot handle too many berries at all. Also, avocado

> really makes him loopy. Melons of any kind make him really bad, like

> whiny crying, dark circles, belly hurting, diarrhea, etc.

>

> Also, if you don't mind me asking, how do you make the chicken

> sausage? I need a good sausage recipe, not pork.

>

> Please don't quit the diet just yet. It is so hard those first 3

> months, but it does get better, really. I would stay away from too

> much fruit and honey right now. Just my thoughts. Hope you get

> better. What kind of problems do you have, as the mom? If you have

> gastro problems, nuts are probably not a good idea yet for you. Just

> the nut flours, and not too much of them.

>

> I have recently started adding some yogurt and am seeing some good

> things, mixed with some die off reactions, but I am going to keep

> with it.

> Tina

August 2, 2004

When we first did SCD my daughter at around the 2-3 month got very ill with

a high fever. Of course I took her to the pediatrician

and there was nothing to be found " just a virus " . I am not saying that SCD

makes you really sick but in BTVC on page 52 Elaine speaks about a relapse

at about the 2nd or 3rd month. This can even include a respiratory

infection. If this is not it maybe she

has some sort of virus having nothing to do with SCD.

Kathy, mom to Hannah-13, NT and Abby-9, ASD, UC and SCD

>

> " Still die-off?? when the original dieoff had ceased at least a month

> earlier? Let me restate. She has progressed on this diet for more than

> a month. and then, high fever accompanied by 3 weeks of sticky to

> watery diarrhea in considerably lessery quanities than she has eaten. "

>

> >

August 2, 2004

Oriel,

Now I am thoroughly confused. You say she is only eating fruit a

few times per week?

What does her typical daily menu consist of?

Please include amount and preparation method.

Thanks!

Jody

mom to -5 and -7

SCD 18 months

August 2, 2004

Patti,

Thank you. That's the kind of answers I need. Real reasons why things

happen, not just. " it could be... " I can think of a thousand it could

bes. Teething/allergies are always in question. but this seems worse,

as both of those have been a constant throughout her short life.

I think this is the first time I have actually heard a defined reason

which actually answers the questions that my sister and I have been

asking for a while. Both of her children have shown (behavior/stool)

regression at 1 and 2 months on SCD.

Thanks again.

Oriel

> Oriel,

> Even if you have seen much improvement for a while, you can still

see more die-off. Some of the colonies of gut pathogens can survive

and hang on for quite a while. Many SCD parents have seen die-off come

in cycles off and on for months. Thing is, too..... when some of the

really deeply entrenched bad guys finally let go and " move on " , they

can leave behind very sensitive, basically " raw " tissue in the gut,

where they were attached. That's maybe why you can see some issues

rise up with digestibility of foods that were not causing any problems

before. So.... sometimes you have to pull back to a simpler diet of

foods that are generally easier to digest..... until symptoms abate.

>

> Regarding the probiotic, you're right..... it is your choice. You

are the only one taking it, right? You're not giving it to her?

Anyway..... if someone is having problems, we just always encourage

them to pull out ALL illegals..... even if you *think* they're not the

culprit...... see if things improve over a period of time (maybe

several weeks), then add them back if you feel comfortable doing it,

and see what happens. But, you're right, that's your decision to make.

>

> Patti, mom to Katera

> Re: Ready to quit, plz help

> <<Ihave introduced the probiotic because it was a gift (an

expensive one too) and as Elaine says, if you feel like it is doing

more good than

> harm...that's your decision>>

>

> <<I have been progressing in the way of the chart you recommended

and have just been quicker with some things than others.>>

>

> <<Like I said this is not an intro die-off reaction. It's new at 1

month of being very improved.>>

>

> <<Still she did fine on all of it till 1

> month into it. I don't see how after a month of the same foods she

would Start having diarrhea/constipation out of the blue that lasts

> for 3 weeks.>>

>

August 3, 2004

Oriel,

I may not be the best advice giver but for both my kids I couldn't

eat anything that they were allergic to while I was breastfeeding.

So with my kids their symptoms were always screaming and colic-like

though that would be a " nice " description of the hell we went thru

every time I ate the wrong thing. (And I have a limited diet to

start with)

Perhaps your daughter is being exposed to something she can't

normally handle but that you can. So maybe something that you can

now tolerate your daughter can not yet handle even the little bit in

breastmilk. Can you mentally think of the things she is so very

sensitive to and avoid them yourself for a while? Sorry--I know

that would be very hard with your limited diet.

just a thought from one sensitive mom/child to another mom/child,

Bonnie

August 3, 2004

Jody,

I don't mean to be rude. I'm just a concerned mother. I guess when

someone tells me that I'm not even trying, I begin to get a little upset.

I have found myself in a strange predicament. My very young child

(since before even starting foods) showed regress in weight gain and

now doesn't digest food very well at all. She has never shown real bad

symptoms when introducing foods except green beans and broccoli and

maybe onions. We have been really slow knowing at month old that she

was sensitive to even what i ate then. (again broccoli, etc). But only

gassy tummy cramps.

I know that pediatricians think protien isn't that important for

children, but my family needs more than the average. we just do/feel

better that way--it's been tested too many times to argue. And as

limas and lentils aren't allergenic foods we introduced them before

meats. So when starting this diet there was beans for protein. If she

was older there would be plenty more options. Now that she is doing

chicken--I hope even that isn't a problem--I think I can cut back on

the legumes. I hope to be able to add beef soon. Maybe then we can

kind of start over.

Her meals now look like this--you won't like this, but it's what gets

her through the day. I know on paper it looks a little wierd, but if

you had to take care of her, you'd know that she's happier when she

eats like this. Behavior is only a problem when she's hungry--too much

fruit, not enough protein, besides she's likely not absorbing it all

so the suggested 1/3 c wouldn't do. Everything is " cooked to death "

and pureed (occasionally limas are whole for finger food), water to

drink, :

4-6 oz snack, Sweet peas (protien veggie)

8-10 oz lunch (4 oz chicken, 4 oz carrot, zucchini, etc)

4-6 oz snack, split peas/limas/lentils with veggie or fruit sauce

8-10 oz dinner (4-6 oz legume, 4 oz veggie), cod liver oil

4-6 oz snack, avocado

My daughter is brilliant, and so many have said that doing this diet

is overreacting. But I think you all know differently.

All I'm asking for is why. I've read all the info, and discussed tons

with my sister who is doing SCD for her family, which is why I know

how to answer other's questions, so my questions are for the not so

simple answers. Difficult situation, maybe just diarrhea from a

" virus " has wiped out the progress on her gut lining and we need to

see if we can try over. Maybe not. It's hard not to be discouraged

when you see what I have and then get to this point and have people

who forget that tack is important to a mother in distress.

Thanks for listening. And for any more thoughts you have. I do

appreciate them.

Oriel & Analeasa (ADD)

IBS, SCD 2 Mo

> Oriel,

>

> Now I am thoroughly confused. You say she is only eating fruit a

> few times per week?

>

> What does her typical daily menu consist of?

>

> Please include amount and preparation method.

>

> Thanks!

> Jody

> mom to -5 and -7

> SCD 18 months

August 3, 2004

Bonnie,

Thanks, we've been trying that. That's why I quit tomatoes, onions,

hot stuff.

Any specific suggestions??

I'm open.

August 3, 2004

Oriel,

Ok--here goes for my kids--

None of the bean group was even a possibility-they are definately

hard to process for mom and kid. However we do very good on meats

and well cooked meats were/are the best proteins for us.(skimming

all the fat that solidifies which is hard on tender tummies)

Cod Liver Oil-is supposed to be hard to handle and fish is one of

the last to be introduced when switching to first foods for a

sensitive kid. Think over that one.

Fruits were not well tolerated by either of us (mom/kid) but we

found bananas ok. (sorry can't remember if you can do them) We had

to avoid pretty much all the fruits (the kids can do most now).

Yes, Peppers, tomatoes, onions and all the spices were a no-no.

Still are for me but my kids are healthier.

And of course nothing in the cabbage family it is so well known for

difficulty (outside the scd family).

So what would I remove? For me I would try to remember what I wa

feeding her and myself back when things were good and then try to go

back to that point. I would pull what you think causes her diarrhea-

-but an outsiders guess might be the bean group and the fruit

group.

Substitute back more meat if you can for protein and for carbs maybe

banana's, winter squashes (Butternut) and more breast milk.

Yea, I would probably up the breastmilk because it so much more

digested --,

What do YOU think?

Bonnie

> Bonnie,

> Thanks, we've been trying that. That's why I quit tomatoes, onions,

> hot stuff.

> Any specific suggestions??

> I'm open.

August 3, 2004

Oriel,

Going by the list of your daughter's meals, this seems like you're really using

quite a bit from the legume group, compared to other foods/veggies. If you don't

feel you should pull them out, maybe you could consider just straining out the

skins? Peas and lentils and limas all have those more fibrous skins that could

make them more difficult to digest. I think Elaine is also concerned that people

should introduce beans later.... and in small quantities to start..... because

they are a more concentrated starch, compared to other foods on SCD, and could

potentially be a problem if a lot of them are eaten. I would also strain out the

seeds from berries.... and skins from blueberries... at this point, until she's

better.

It's actually really common for parents to see a bit of a set back at this

point. I'm surprised there haven't been more SCD parents on our list chiming in

to tell you they experienced this. So, don't despair...... the road to healing

isn't always a straight line. Sometimes there are hairpin turns, switchbacks and

potholes along the way. It's not a matter of just getting everything legal and

then totally being better from that point on..... or even constant progress,

better and better each day. Lots of us have had struggles along the way.

When my daughter got the flu last fall she had been SCD for 7 months.... but

we had seizures hit us from out of the blue after being seizure free for almost

six months (seizure control is why we are doing SCD, she doesn't have

autism).....and poops were horrible for several weeks after she was otherwise

well.... even though I had pulled her diet back to not quite intro level, but

close. We haven't gotten total seizure control back yet. I was really bummed

since we had such a good stretch..... the longest time without a seizure in her

entire life. I don't have any explanation.

Anyway.... sorry I'm rambling...... I just know that all kids get sick once in a

while.... and it's always my instinct to take a couple steps back, simplify

things and take a deep breath. Take your time.... you'll get there again.

Patti, mom to Katera, age 7, SCD 14 months

<<4-6 oz snack, Sweet peas (protien veggie)

8-10 oz lunch (4 oz chicken, 4 oz carrot, zucchini, etc)

4-6 oz snack, split peas/limas/lentils with veggie or fruit sauce

8-10 oz dinner (4-6 oz legume, 4 oz veggie), cod liver oil

4-6 oz snack, avocado>>

August 3, 2004

I'd have to agree with this just because I went through it with my 1st as well.

Eggs were a huge issue and I could not eat them while I was bfding or my son's

diapers were horrible. Also, and this may or may not be of any help, but

could not tolerate any berries at all for a long time. I don't know why but

berries are hard on many babies - maybe someone can shed light on why. But just

one glass of cran/grape juice (100% juice) cause him to have the worst D I had

ever seen. The next day he was fine. I gave it to him as a test just to see if

he could handle the juice since he had never been able to eat berries (rash on

face, horrible diapers, etc.) This was before SCD and before he got colitis but

he has always had gut issues. It might be worth eliminating berries for a few

days just to see how it goes. A food journal is very helpful sometimes in these

cases - starting with extremely simple foods and adding in foods one at at time

while jotting down any symptoms. Or, you could try eliminating one group of

foods at a time for several days (beans for a week, then berries for a week,

etc) and see if you see a pattern. In my experience with food elimination

though, it was easier to start with a clean slate and then add one at a time,

but you have to do what is best for you.

I truly feel for you. After 3 wks of SCD my son's colitis symptoms were gone.

But at about 2 months he flared up again and has been worse today than any day

since. But, I know there are ups and downs and I will wait this out, but after

seeing him doing so well it's so hard to see him go back to what looks like

square one. But, the stories of how others made it through these times keeps me

going, and I hope it will for you as well.

Robbie

2 kids scd 2 mos

----- Original Message

Oriel,

I may not be the best advice giver but for both my kids I couldn't

eat anything that they were allergic to while I was breastfeeding.

So with my kids their symptoms were always screaming and colic-like

though that would be a " nice " description of the hell we went thru

every time I ate the wrong thing. (And I have a limited diet to

start with)

Perhaps your daughter is being exposed to something she can't

normally handle but that you can. So maybe something that you can

now tolerate your daughter can not yet handle even the little bit in

breastmilk. Can you mentally think of the things she is so very

sensitive to and avoid them yourself for a while? Sorry--I know

that would be very hard with your limited diet.

just a thought from one sensitive mom/child to another mom/child,

Bonnie

August 3, 2004

Hi Oriel ,

I 'm not sure that pediatricians don't believe that protein isn't important,

it's just the forms of the protein. For very young children (babies & toddlers)

their major source is usually milk or formula based. As children get older they

are introduced gradually to more " adult-like " forms of protein. Meat, nuts,

beans etc.

Although beans and lentils aren't necessarily an allergenic food they are more

difficult to digest then other forms of proteins. They contain more complex

carbohydrates. That's why they are to be introduced later on SCD after some

healing takes place. So even though she have been able to tolerate beans and

lentils before this something has obviously set her off. It could be the " three

month flare " - a little early, the fever or something else.

The first thing you need to do is to eliminate the possible culprits and once

she is stabilized begin slowly reintroducing foods.

If you are still breastfeeding probiotics that you are taking will likely have

an effect on her even if you are okay with them. The bacteria themselves may be

passed onto her along with their by-products. You may want to consider taking

one of the SCD recommended probiotics please see

http://www.pecanbread.com/probiotics.html#brands (if you are able to tolerate

dairy there are other options) or even better some of the SCD yogurt. If you

are not using dairy you can still make nut yogurt to get beneficial bacteria.

Please see http://www.pecanbread.com/recipes.html under " nut milk/nut yogurt "

I'd recommend going back to the intro diet for a couple of days to get her

stabilized. Again if you are going to continue breastfeeding - which I

personally think is awesome if you are able to do it then you should eat the

same foods as she is eating. Of course, in more appropriate quantities.

Sheila 42 mos SCD, 20 yrs UC

mom of SCD 27 mos and