Re: Real AA and Treatment-facilitated AA.

[Guest guest]

Speaking of treatement, I also got to sick of hearing the woman counselor constantly telling us 8 women in the group that our recovery was the ONLY important thin in our lives, I finally told her one day that this disease was NOT my whole life, I had a house to pay for a job to maintain and I wanst going to give up everything - I could do both and that people really need to be able to incorporate their recovery into their lives while still living those lives. She actually convinced a woman in our group to resign from a 60,000 a year job because there were too many people there that she knew who drank!

Sue A

[Guest guest]

the difference is in " Treatment-facilitated " AA you pay a " certified

addiction councilor " money to fuck your mind. seriously, its the

same deal, except your paying to be in " Treatment " .

[Guest guest]

Dave.

Why don't they like each other? What's the conflict about? Money or

influence? Does the " real " feel intimidated by the therapists?

It's something here, I can feel it.

Bjørn

Dave Marcoot wrote:

> the difference is in " Treatment-facilitated " AA you pay a " certified

> addiction councilor " money to fuck your mind. seriously, its the

> same deal, except your paying to be in " Treatment " .

>

[Guest guest]

not being an expert on it myself, i think it is money and influence.

AA, as you know has a tradition of being non proffesional (its

arguable if they really are or not given the number of steppers in

treament facilites) and of " one alcholic helping another " . anything

which gets in midle of that is frowned upon.

for " treatment professionals " the 12-steps is an easy thing to

offer, its free, they dont have to go out on limb and risk

controversy (drummed up by 12-step disease theory supporters

as witnessed last summer with the ers treatment facilty in

NY and the forced resignation of its director) by trying something

rational, orginal, or " new fangled " , and it gives all those steppers

working in them a career ladder.

jeffery schaler touches on this in his book addiction is a choice.

in project MATCH Treatment-facilitated 12-steps was found to

be no more successful than AA, the results were then buried. I'll

double check that tonight when i go to the book store.

-- In 12-step-freeegroups, Bjørn Herring <herring@p...>

wrote:

> Dave.

>

> Why don't they like each other? What's the conflict about?

Money or

> influence? Does the " real " feel intimidated by the therapists?

> It's something here, I can feel it.

>

> Bjørn

>

> Dave Marcoot wrote:

>

> > the difference is in " Treatment-facilitated " AA you pay a

" certified

> > addiction councilor " money to fuck your mind. seriously, its

the

> > same deal, except your paying to be in " Treatment " .

> >

[Guest guest]

my favorite AA slogan is " Anything you put befoe your sobreity you

will lose " given that sobreity is life sober, and everything we

experince is part of life, its an absurd statement. its only used

when you wish to do anything besides AA and the Program. the

meaning ebcomes clear when you understand that. anything you

put before AA you will lose.

Bill wrote that, " unless each AA member follows to the

best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps of recovery, he

almost certainly signs his own death warrant . . . We must obey

certain principles or we die. "

, W.] (1957). Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age, New

York: Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., page 119.

and who sez its not a cult?

> Speaking of treatement, I also got to sick of hearing the woman

counselor

> constantly telling us 8 women in the group that our recovery

was the ONLY

> important thin in our lives, I finally told her one day that this

disease was

> NOT my whole life, I had a house to pay for a job to maintain

and I wanst

> going to give up everything - I could do both and that people

really need to

> be able to incorporate their recovery into their lives while still

living

> those lives. She actually convinced a woman in our group to

resign from a

> 60,000 a year job because there were too many people there

that she knew who

> drank!

>

> Sue A

[Guest guest]

The reason they don't l;ike eacxh otehr is simple, Bjørn... they each

beleive they do a better job helping others.

Re: Re: " Real " AA and " Treatment-facilitated " AA.

> Dave.

>

> Why don't they like each other? What's the conflict about? Money or

> influence? Does the " real " feel intimidated by the therapists?

> It's something here, I can feel it.

>

> Bjørn

>

> Dave Marcoot wrote:

>

> > the difference is in " Treatment-facilitated " AA you pay a " certified

> > addiction councilor " money to fuck your mind. seriously, its the

> > same deal, except your paying to be in " Treatment " .

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue

Welcome to 12sf....

Perhpas these folks would like to put their nice jobs my way when they

resign huh?

Abt 3 yrs ago someone posted how they belonged to one group (NA I

think) where he local culture was to be totally unemployed because

only if you were unemployed were you free to devote yourself to God's

work, presumably NA!

P.

> Speaking of treatement, I also got to sick of hearing the woman

counselor

> constantly telling us 8 women in the group that our recovery was the

ONLY

> important thin in our lives, I finally told her one day that this

disease was

> NOT my whole life, I had a house to pay for a job to maintain and I

wanst

> going to give up everything - I could do both and that people really

need to

> be able to incorporate their recovery into their lives while still

living

> those lives. She actually convinced a woman in our group to resign

from a

> 60,000 a year job because there were too many people there that she

knew who

> drank!

>

> Sue A