Guest guest Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 I appreciate your perspective. A similar suggestion was offered when I related my story months ago. I considered it and rejected it for the following reasons. My fevers began only slightly and sporadically. As they persisted over the course of weeks they became much more regular, peaking in the evening to sometimes 103F. I'd sweat them out and usually woke the next am w/ a saturated pillow. Had every test under the sun - no answers. On a Friday my rheumy called, suggested I go off the minocin. Friday night no fever and none subsequently. The correlation was unmistakable and dramatic. My bloodwork, previously normal, slowly returned to normal. I'm somewhat familiar with the Herx concept/theory - perhaps others are much more familiar with than I. I find it reasonable in principle, but in truth, it would be exceedingly difficult to test or affirm on a scientific level. I'm somewhat perplexed why the concept is treated as though it were fact and a convenient explanation to account for the inherent irregular nature for which many of these diseases are known for (at the risk of ruffling feathers, the herx explanation seems to get tossed around on this site like candy). I'm not suggesting that a herx cannot occur, rather I'd find it somewhat implausable that someone on a regular dose of antibiotics could reasonably distinguish between a herx rx and a rx percipitated from some other cause, i.e. their disease ebbing or some other stimulus, allergy. The cause and effect relationship would just be too inconclusive. After my research into this lupus-like syndrome and speaking to several Drs, it was apparent to me that it was the most reasonable explanation for my symptoms. There really is a lot more out there than just this one study that was referred to. Bottom line - there is so much that is NOT understood regarding our immune systems, that I keep an open mind about the potential explanations, but in my specific case, I'm comfortable with my understanding as it is. Thanks jeff ----Original Message Follows---- From: socjog <socjog@...> Reply-socjog <socjog@...> " AP rheumatic.org " <rheumatic > Subject: rheumatic drug induced illness Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 10:05:20 -0500 Hi Jeffery , In your post these symptoms are similar to what occurs in a herxhiemer reaction which is a well known reaction when antibiotics were first introduced in treating venereal disease . Maybe the minocycline was working which is the very reason drs stop using it because they saw these changes and DIDN'T recognize them as the drug working but actually thought the disease was worsening . Here is where the confusion lies . Have you read up on Herxhiemer reactions ?? Its quite interesting . Warm regards, socjog I experienced this very reaction to minocycline 11/2 years ago. I had fevers for 5-6 weeks, elevated ANA and sed rate, and subcutaneous nodules. Like the article mentioned my symptoms ceased almost immediately after discontinuing the minocin, excepted for the nodules which were pesky and only slowly dissipated. After everything cleared up, I tried again, and only after one 50 mg dose, the fevers started again, so I stopped and started on doxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Hi Jeff, l do not no if you are familiar with the protocols that Dr. Brown wrote, but on page 5 there is a paragraph titled IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT LUPUS & MINOCYCLINE. l had to come off Minocin as l developed antibodies to Lupus. l also understand unless my sources are wrong that Minocycline is a DMARD. l do agree with your concept. Thank you. Ginger rheumatic drug induced illness > Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 10:05:20 -0500 > > Hi Jeffery , > In your post these symptoms are similar to what occurs in a herxhiemer > reaction which is a well known reaction when antibiotics were first > introduced in treating venereal disease . Maybe the minocycline was working > which is the very reason drs stop using it because they saw these changes > and DIDN'T recognize them as the drug working but actually thought the > disease was worsening . Here is where the confusion lies . Have you read up > on Herxhiemer reactions ?? Its quite interesting . Warm regards, > socjog > I experienced this very reaction to minocycline 11/2 years ago. I had > fevers for 5-6 weeks, elevated ANA and sed rate, and subcutaneous nodules. > Like the article mentioned my symptoms ceased almost immediately after > discontinuing the minocin, excepted for the nodules which were pesky and > only slowly dissipated. After everything cleared up, I tried again, and > only after one 50 mg dose, the fevers started again, so I stopped and > started on doxy. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 From: " Jeffery scott " <jefferysa@...> > I'm somewhat familiar with the Herx concept/theory - perhaps others are much > more familiar with than I. I find it reasonable in principle, but in truth, > it would be exceedingly difficult to test or affirm on a scientific level. > I'm somewhat perplexed why the concept is treated as though it were fact and > a convenient explanation to account for the inherent irregular nature for > which many of these diseases are known for (at the risk of ruffling > feathers, the herx explanation seems to get tossed around on this site like > candy). Jeff, the Herx (as in Jarisch Herxheimer) gets tossed around here frequently because it IS a fact and NOT a concept. It doesn't just happen when antibiotics are used to treat rheumatic disease. Dr. Brown found that about 80% of his rheumatoid arthritis patients would experience a Herxheimer reaction. I suggest you spend some time researching the subject on PubMed. Ethel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 > > From: " Jeffery scott " <jefferysa@h...> > > > > > I'm somewhat perplexed why the concept is treated as though it were fact > and > > a convenient explanation to account for the inherent irregular nature for > > which many of these diseases are known for > > Jeff, the Herx (as in Jarisch Herxheimer) gets tossed around here frequently > because it IS a fact and NOT a concept. It doesn't just happen when > antibiotics are used to treat rheumatic disease. Dr. Brown found that about > 80% of his rheumatoid arthritis patients would experience a Herxheimer > reaction. I wouldn't disagree with either, but I do think people tend to forget the cyclical nature of the disease, the waxing and waning periods so to speak. They can often confuse the issue and make one think one thing is happening, when in reality it might just be the entering of another cycle. just my .02. I know i've been there many times. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 We perhaps have a different perspective on what constitutes " fact, " nonetheless I recognize that I'm always in a state of being educated, so if you are able to cite any specific analytical data or documentation that would help me and those like me who may be lacking on this subject it would be appreciated. ----Original Message Follows---- From: " Ethel Snooks " <emsnooks@...> <socjog@...>,<rheumatic >, " Jeffery scott " <jefferysa@...> Subject: Re: rheumatic drug induced illness Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:00:12 -0500 From: " Jeffery scott " <jefferysa@...> > I'm somewhat familiar with the Herx concept/theory - perhaps others are much > more familiar with than I. I find it reasonable in principle, but in truth, > it would be exceedingly difficult to test or affirm on a scientific level. > I'm somewhat perplexed why the concept is treated as though it were fact and > a convenient explanation to account for the inherent irregular nature for > which many of these diseases are known for (at the risk of ruffling > feathers, the herx explanation seems to get tossed around on this site like > candy). Jeff, the Herx (as in Jarisch Herxheimer) gets tossed around here frequently because it IS a fact and NOT a concept. It doesn't just happen when antibiotics are used to treat rheumatic disease. Dr. Brown found that about 80% of his rheumatoid arthritis patients would experience a Herxheimer reaction. I suggest you spend some time researching the subject on PubMed. Ethel _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 ----- Original Message ----- From: <mholmes@...> > > > > > From: " Jeffery scott " <jefferysa@h...> > > > > > > > > > I'm somewhat perplexed why the concept is treated as though it > were fact > > and > > > a convenient explanation to account for the inherent irregular > nature for > > > which many of these diseases are known for > > > > > Jeff, the Herx (as in Jarisch Herxheimer) gets tossed around here > frequently > > because it IS a fact and NOT a concept. It doesn't just happen when > > antibiotics are used to treat rheumatic disease. Dr. Brown found > that about > > 80% of his rheumatoid arthritis patients would experience a Herxheimer > > reaction. > > > I wouldn't disagree with either, but I do think people tend to forget > the cyclical nature of the disease, the waxing and waning periods so > to speak. They can often confuse the issue and make one think one > thing is happening, when in reality it might just be the entering of > another cycle. just my .02. I know i've been there many times. > > Mark > The Jarisch Herxheimer reaction is distinguished from normal flares as it only occurs as a result of the introduction of the antibiotic to treat the disease or whenever the antibiotic is changed or the dosage is increased. Ethel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Sorry, Jeff, but my time must be devoted to helping those in 'need' seek answers. It's much too valuable to waste proving something we already know is fact. Most physicians can explain the JH. How about you proving to us it's only a concept? Ethel Moderator From: " Jeffery scott " <jefferysa@...> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:37 AM Subject: Re: rheumatic drug induced illness > We perhaps have a different perspective on what constitutes " fact, " > nonetheless I recognize that I'm always in a state of being educated, so if > you are able to cite any specific analytical data or documentation that > would help me and those like me who may be lacking on this subject it would > be appreciated. > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: " Ethel Snooks " <emsnooks@...> > <socjog@...>,<rheumatic >, " Jeffery scott " > <jefferysa@...> > Subject: Re: rheumatic drug induced illness > Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:00:12 -0500 > > > From: " Jeffery scott " <jefferysa@...> > > > > I'm somewhat familiar with the Herx concept/theory - perhaps others are > much > > more familiar with than I. I find it reasonable in principle, but in > truth, > > it would be exceedingly difficult to test or affirm on a scientific > level. > > I'm somewhat perplexed why the concept is treated as though it were fact > and > > a convenient explanation to account for the inherent irregular nature for > > which many of these diseases are known for (at the risk of ruffling > > feathers, the herx explanation seems to get tossed around on this site > like > > candy). > > Jeff, the Herx (as in Jarisch Herxheimer) gets tossed around here frequently > because it IS a fact and NOT a concept. It doesn't just happen when > antibiotics are used to treat rheumatic disease. Dr. Brown found that about > 80% of his rheumatoid arthritis patients would experience a Herxheimer > reaction. > > I suggest you spend some time researching the subject on PubMed. > > Ethel > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 > > The Jarisch Herxheimer reaction is distinguished from normal flares as it > only occurs as a result of the introduction of the antibiotic to treat the > disease or whenever the antibiotic is changed or the dosage is increased. > > Ethel True, but I would agree with that the word is bandied about here so that often when someone is actually flaring (a far more prevalent condition than herxing, imho), they indicate they're herxing, although they haven't really increased their medication, nor have they just started on it. I think that was perhaps part of the point he was trying to make, although I should not speak for him. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Hi Jeff, Have you read " The New Arthritis Breakthrough " as it discusses on several pages the herxheimer reaction and one section with Dr. Brown talking about it. I'm sure there are other books out there with references to it too. Also, you can look it up on Google search engine. Jeanette Ethel Snooks wrote: >Sorry, Jeff, but my time must be devoted to helping those in 'need' seek >answers. It's much too valuable to waste proving something we already know >is fact. Most physicians can explain the JH. How about you proving to us >it's only a concept? > >Ethel >Moderator > > >From: " Jeffery scott " <jefferysa@...> >Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:37 AM >Subject: Re: rheumatic drug induced illness > > > > >>We perhaps have a different perspective on what constitutes " fact, " >>nonetheless I recognize that I'm always in a state of being educated, so >> >> >if > > >>you are able to cite any specific analytical data or documentation that >>would help me and those like me who may be lacking on this subject it >> >> >would > > >>be appreciated. >> >> >>----Original Message Follows---- >>From: " Ethel Snooks " <emsnooks@...> >><socjog@...>,<rheumatic >, " Jeffery scott " >><jefferysa@...> >>Subject: Re: rheumatic drug induced illness >>Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:00:12 -0500 >> >> >>From: " Jeffery scott " <jefferysa@...> >> >> >> > I'm somewhat familiar with the Herx concept/theory - perhaps others are >>much >> > more familiar with than I. I find it reasonable in principle, but in >>truth, >> > it would be exceedingly difficult to test or affirm on a scientific >>level. >> > I'm somewhat perplexed why the concept is treated as though it were >> >> >fact > > >>and >> > a convenient explanation to account for the inherent irregular nature >> >> >for > > >> > which many of these diseases are known for (at the risk of ruffling >> > feathers, the herx explanation seems to get tossed around on this site >>like >> > candy). >> >>Jeff, the Herx (as in Jarisch Herxheimer) gets tossed around here >> >> >frequently > > >>because it IS a fact and NOT a concept. It doesn't just happen when >>antibiotics are used to treat rheumatic disease. Dr. Brown found that >> >> >about > > >>80% of his rheumatoid arthritis patients would experience a Herxheimer >>reaction. >> >>I suggest you spend some time researching the subject on PubMed. >> >>Ethel >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* >>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail >> >> >>To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Hi Jeffery , Maybe this site below which gives you a multitude of information and other sites about this very well know medically proven and accepted reaction when taking antibiotics . I hope this info information to leads you in a better understanding of this reaction . Warm regards , socjog http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/herx-links.html#definitions rheumatic drug induced illness > Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 10:05:20 -0500 > > Hi Jeffery , > In your post these symptoms are similar to what occurs in a herxhiemer > reaction which is a well known reaction when antibiotics were first > introduced in treating venereal disease . Maybe the minocycline was working > which is the very reason drs stop using it because they saw these changes > and DIDN'T recognize them as the drug working but actually thought the > disease was worsening . Here is where the confusion lies . Have you read up > on Herxhiemer reactions ?? Its quite interesting . Warm regards, > socjog > I experienced this very reaction to minocycline 11/2 years ago. I had > fevers for 5-6 weeks, elevated ANA and sed rate, and subcutaneous nodules. > Like the article mentioned my symptoms ceased almost immediately after > discontinuing the minocin, excepted for the nodules which were pesky and > only slowly dissipated. After everything cleared up, I tried again, and > only after one 50 mg dose, the fevers started again, so I stopped and > started on doxy. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Hi Everyone, Lets see here after 15 yrs on AP I am still somewhat confused on this Herx but I appeared to have them on and off and bad ones for 3 yrs before I just turned the corner and I was \pain free or almost tell this last Lupus flare from a bacterial infection. I am always amazed when some people get over RA and only have 1or 2 herxes. I did have a severe case of RA maybe that is why it took 3 yrs to get so much better. I could not walk and was in terrible pain. Also I just took tetracycline but I did have the IVs 4 times, which did help. There are alot more things to help now and also one can change their meds, like now I am on Doxy. All I can say is I was alot worse on and off those first 3 yrs then BAM it left and the RA is still gone. I am doing ok now on my way back from Phemphoid Lupus which is of the skin. Does anyone on this line have this besides me? If so contact me please/ Stay well and the Herx was very real for me. Just My View from Ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Very much appreciated. It was informative, unfortunately though, some of the links are not accessible. I had the sense though that the authors were descibing the rx (at least as it applies to lymes disease) as an event not a condition that exist over time - say 6 weeks of fevers. Just for the record though, and not to continue beating what should now perhaps become a dead horse, I have not been tooting some anti-herx horn. I really don't take a position one way or another. They may or may not exist (factually or otherwise) in the context of the AP. What was exceedingly unclear to me (which Mark alluded to), how can anyone reasonably distinguish between a herx event and a non-herx event based solely on some intuitive reading of their symptoms (notwithstanding something more identifiable clue, such as a change of antibiotic dose or frequency). I'm not suggesting it is not possible, just that it does not appear probable given the inherent variability of these diseases. Thanks, jeff ----Original Message Follows---- From: socjog <socjog@...> Reply-socjog <socjog@...> " AP rheumatic.org " <rheumatic >, Jeffery scott <jefferysa@...> Subject: Re: rheumatic drug induced illness Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 12:11:52 -0500 Hi Jeffery , Maybe this site below which gives you a multitude of information and other sites about this very well know medically proven and accepted reaction when taking antibiotics . I hope this info information to leads you in a better understanding of this reaction . Warm regards , socjog http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/herx-links.html#definitions > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Hi Jeffery! Geoff here. Well, it's nice to see somebody else on the list with a " good name, " hahaha! Welcome aboard. If you're interested in laboratory analysis confirming whether or not a patient is in a healing crisis (J. Herx) or a cyclical change in the disease, Ethel Snooks posted the lab data defining the differences roughly 3-4 months ago, perhaps longer but within the last year. You can search the archives at for the specifics. Once you are armed with that information, the issue is one of finances. Is knowing essential to you personally and if so, can you afford to obtain lab work each time, or at least the first time or first few times, this occurs? If so, you will then be able to understand what you are seeing or experiencing. There is long-known history of the Jarisch Herxheimer reaction, going back hundreds, even thousands of years before Jarisch Herxheimer described it. It " was " known in medicine as a healing crisis and was noted in Homeopathic literature over 150 years ago and known in Allopathy as well. So if your interest runs to research and history, in addition to scrounging up the lab info from Ethel's post, you could hunt around for thorough history under Herx, Herxheimer, J Herx, J Herxheimer, Jarisch Herxheimer and... " healing crisis. " I hope this is of some help and your browsing is both interesting and valuable to you. Geoff soli Deo gloria www.HealingYou.org - Your nonprofit source for remedies and aids in fighting these diseases, information on weaning from drugs, and nutritional kits for repairing adrenal damage; 100% volunteer staffed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 In a message dated 1/27/03 8:15:16 PM, mholmes@... writes: << think the point again is that people use the word herx too frequently when in reality they are flaring >> I was wondering about this, too. And, if so many " symptoms " could all be herxing. I will do some more reading. Pris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Hey Muggy and group , I had herx reaction off and on and didn't turn a corner until I reached about 2 yrs on AP . That is the problem with the therapy . Those ups and downs with the treatment really play games with your mind as to am I getting worse or is this the herhimer reaction. You have to really read about this reaction in detail so you can recognize what is your body going through . My journaling has led me to be able to distinguish the difference between disease activity herxing . What kept me hanging in there were my labs . My sed rate did go up during a herx and my other labs consistently improved . So I was lucky because I had the black and white to see . I think this is where medicine gave this therapy a bum wrap in its recognition because we are not a patient < pun Intended> society we all want that quick fix and this therapy without a doubt doesn't do that . Many give up on the roller coaster ride and that is quite unfortunate . As I wrote to one other poster " I have been to the mountain and back " In my journey with this illness . I'm grateful to excellent support over the years because hanging in there was not easy but has given me back my life . Thanks for sharing warm regards, socjog Re: rheumatic drug induced illness Hi Everyone, Lets see here after 15 yrs on AP I am still somewhat confused on this Herx but I appeared to have them on and off and bad ones for 3 yrs before I just turned the corner and I was \pain free or almost tell this last Lupus flare from a bacterial infection. I am always amazed when some people get over RA and only have 1or 2 herxes. I did have a severe case of RA maybe that is why it took 3 yrs to get so much better. I could not walk and was in terrible pain. Also I just took tetracycline but I did have the IVs 4 times, which did help. There are alot more things to help now and also one can change their meds, like now I am on Doxy. All I can say is I was alot worse on and off those first 3 yrs then BAM it left and the RA is still gone. I am doing ok now on my way back from Phemphoid Lupus which is of the skin. Does anyone on this line have this besides me? If so contact me please/ Stay well and the Herx was ve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 > Oh Jeffery you stated " I had the sense though that the authors were > descibing the rx (at least as it applies to lymes disease) " > you had a sense ??? Then you didn't look through the numerous sites ( I know you couldnt access some ) because they discussed MS , Syphilis Pulmonary Hypertension , hepatitis, pregnancy along with many others and yes lyme is also included . I suggest Jeffery you read about this as many here have told you if your on or considering this therapy you must be informed about this reaction if you want to succeed in this therapy . > " You can lead a horse to water but we cant make it drink " Warm regards, > socjog I think the point again is that people use the word herx too frequently when in reality they are flaring. After all, if herxing happens upon initiation of an antibiotic treatment or at times when we increase the dosage levels, then herxes should be pretty rare, since we generally initiate the treatment once and very infrequently adjust dosage levels. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Hi Socjoq, l want to thank you for pointing out that it was the Arthritis Foundation that classified Minocycline as a DMARD. They did so in their magazine. So l guess it is a DMARD as the chemicals could be different in this antibiotic as opposed to the Doxy/Tetro. Also in my Merk Manual (fifteeth edition) a real oldie, it gives some definition of a Herxheimer reaction. Pagel34 under treatment. A good paragraph to read. Also who is putting out the info that Jeff was reading on this subject? What is the Medical company? Thank you so much. Ginger rheumatic drug induced illness > Hi Mark , > I think Ethel made a good point where as if one reads up on Herxhiemer it is quite evident that there are distinct differences . It is an area one must read fully about to be able with the drs and journaling to know the difference . I don't see this as being bandied here but rather offering an option to look into since this reaction does occur with antibiotics and this is an antibiotic protocol support group don't ya think ? It is then up to the patient and dr to figure out . JMHO Warm regards, > socjog > > True, but I would agree with that the word is bandied about > here so that often when someone is actually flaring (a far more > prevalent condition than herxing, imho), they indicate they're > herxing, although they haven't really increased their medication, nor > have they just started on it. I think that was perhaps part of the > point he was trying to make, although I should not speak for him. > > Mark > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 > > I think the point again is that people use the word herx too > frequently when in reality they are flaring. After all, if herxing > happens upon initiation of an antibiotic treatment or at times when we > increase the dosage levels, then herxes should be pretty rare, since > we generally initiate the treatment once and very infrequently adjust > dosage levels. > > Mark >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mark, I took the following statement from an article I was reading on the JH reaction. I know I have herxed from Oil of Oregano very recently, and had to stop it for a while to eleviate the symptoms. ( " I have seen cases where adding another unrelated medication caused the antibiotic to become more bioavailable and that precipitated a JH. There are cases where simply changing a single 100 mg daily dose of minocycline to two 50 mg split doses has provoked a JH due to an absorption increase. Reducing, suspending or changing the offending medication is the most obvious treatment. " ) It does not happen only from the antibitioc we are currently on. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Hi Ginger , Well the FDA and the USP can to classify drugs not the Arthritis Foundation but that is how they list it . Technically minocin is categorized as an antibiotic so I'm not sure I would say it is a DMARDs even though it may have the same or similar effect . Many drugs once classified and put to use are found to function in other ways . . The chemicals are definitely different in doxy and tetracycline's and minocin. They attack some of the same organisms and some different otherwise they would all be called the same name . Plus even using a different manufacturer can lead to different filler ingredients . Its was to always request the same manufacturer to your pharmacist . . I supplied Jeff with a web site about herxing and posted this to the group is this what you are referring too If so see below http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/herx-links.html#definitions Warm regards, socjog rheumatic drug induced illness > > > > Hi Mark , > > I think Ethel made a good point where as if one reads up on Herxhiemer it > is quite evident that there are distinct differences . It is an area one > must read fully about to be able with the drs and journaling to know the > difference . I don't see this as being bandied here but rather offering an > option to look into since this reaction does occur with antibiotics and this > is an antibiotic protocol support group don't ya think ? It is then up to > the patient and dr to figure out . JMHO Warm regards, > > socjog > > > > True, but I would agree with that the word is bandied about > > here so that often when someone is actually flaring (a far more > > prevalent condition than herxing, imho), they indicate they're > > herxing, although they haven't really increased their medication, nor > > have they just started on it. I think that was perhaps part of the > > point he was trying to make, although I should not speak for him. > > > > Mark > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 .. Technically minocin is categorized > as an antibiotic so I'm not sure I would say it is a DMARDs even though it > may have the same or similar effect . In Canada, Minocin is now accepted as a DMARD and has been for a while. This allows mainstream doctors to feel more comfortable in prescribing it. (RA 25+ years, AP since Nov. 97) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Hi, Yes that is the web site and l thank you very much for this. Have a good one. Ginger rheumatic drug induced illness > > > > > > > Hi Mark , > > > I think Ethel made a good point where as if one reads up on Herxhiemer > it > > is quite evident that there are distinct differences . It is an area one > > must read fully about to be able with the drs and journaling to know the > > difference . I don't see this as being bandied here but rather offering > an > > option to look into since this reaction does occur with antibiotics and > this > > is an antibiotic protocol support group don't ya think ? It is then up to > > the patient and dr to figure out . JMHO Warm regards, > > > socjog > > > > > > True, but I would agree with that the word is bandied about > > > here so that often when someone is actually flaring (a far more > > > prevalent condition than herxing, imho), they indicate they're > > > herxing, although they haven't really increased their medication, nor > > > have they just started on it. I think that was perhaps part of the > > > point he was trying to make, although I should not speak for him. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Your welcome glad to help socjog rheumatic drug induced illness > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mark , > > > > I think Ethel made a good point where as if one reads up on > Herxhiemer > > it > > > is quite evident that there are distinct differences . It is an area > one > > > must read fully about to be able with the drs and journaling to know the > > > difference . I don't see this as being bandied here but rather > offering > > an > > > option to look into since this reaction does occur with antibiotics and > > this > > > is an antibiotic protocol support group don't ya think ? It is then up > to > > > the patient and dr to figure out . JMHO Warm regards, > > > > socjog > > > > > > > > True, but I would agree with that the word is bandied about > > > > here so that often when someone is actually flaring (a far more > > > > prevalent condition than herxing, imho), they indicate they're > > > > herxing, although they haven't really increased their medication, nor > > > > have they just started on it. I think that was perhaps part of the > > > > point he was trying to make, although I should not speak for him. > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Thank you I'm sorry I should have stated in the USA I do not know Canada or other areas about the classification of drugs . IM delighted to hear Canada has recognized this as a DMARDs hope others follow as well as I can see how this would allow drs to be more comfortable prescribing it . Thanks for sharing this info warm regards, socjog Re: rheumatic drug induced illness > > . Technically minocin is categorized > > as an antibiotic so I'm not sure I would say it is a DMARDs even though it > > may have the same or similar effect . > > In Canada, Minocin is now accepted as a DMARD and has been for a while. > This allows mainstream doctors to feel more comfortable in prescribing it. > > > (RA 25+ years, AP since Nov. 97) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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