Re: HOW MUCH WATER DO YOU NEED?.htm

[Guest guest]

Uh ohhh.....this will no doubt peeve the toxic flushers in the crowd and

before you know it coffee enemas are front and center again. But it was

good to finally read about the basis for the eight cups. Not familiar with

this Mirkin guy, but he and I are on the same page on this. I also believe

that everybody's needs are probably very different depending on conditions,

activity, diet, metabolism, etc., so pinning a number on it probably isn't

all that useful, but if we gotta have a number..... I personally don't keep

track, but am usually drinking throughout the day anyway.

Jeff

Original Message Follows----

From: " Mark Holmes " <mholmes@...>

Reply- " Mark Holmes " <markholmes@...>

<rheumatic >

Subject: rheumatic HOW MUCH WATER DO YOU NEED?.htm

Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 16:16:39 -0500

I know this is sometimes discussed in this group. Noticed this on Dr.

Mirkin's site and thought I'd pass it along. Will no doubt stir debate

(that's healthy, right?

http://www.drmirkin.com/nutrition/9942.html

[Guest guest]

Mark, you've been on this list long enough to have heard the importance of

proper hydration to health and particularly it's use in this therapy. It's

inexcusable for you to post this and try to confuse people on this list

trying to get well. For Dr. Mirkin to put something like this on his site

shows absolute ignorance on the subject. Just note his source.

This is not a subject for debate.

Ethel

rheumatic HOW MUCH WATER DO YOU NEED?.htm

> I know this is sometimes discussed in this group. Noticed this on Dr.

Mirkin's site and thought I'd pass it along. Will no doubt stir debate

(that's healthy, right?

> http://www.drmirkin.com/nutrition/9942.html

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am totally baffled by this article. And to tell you the truth, I don't

care what kind of 'research' was done for this. I just know that when I

drink more water, I feel better. Ya know, it's not just about digestion and

poop. I think they might be missing part of the picture here!

Just my opinion,

Mel

rheumatic HOW MUCH WATER DO YOU NEED?.htm

> I know this is sometimes discussed in this group. Noticed this on Dr.

Mirkin's site and thought I'd pass it along. Will no doubt stir debate

(that's healthy, right?

> http://www.drmirkin.com/nutrition/9942.html

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mark,

I am glad that Methotrexate works for you. And I hope that you do not exhaust

your immune system should you need it one day. DMARDs are immune depressants,

as you well know by this time. Immune suppression is not a side effect; It is

what DMARDS are created to do. I am not saying that sometimes other means are

not necessary. But, I think the majority of us would like to save our immune

systems just in case we need them in the future. I continue with my

sulfasalazine (a less ghastly poison), just to keep my disease in check while I

am on the AP. However, I know that it will cause damage in the long run. I

hope to ween off of it in the near future. But, we cannot deny that the DMARDs

poison our bodies and diminish our immune systems that we all need in order to

survive. I am not trying to offend anyone. I do not judge others for

continuing or starting DMARDs, as I do so myself. But we cannot sugar coat the

fact that they are poisons.

On a side note, I am not suggesting that anyone should " exist on aspirin alone " ,

nor do I believe that the antibiotic therapy fails anyone. Each person is

different and may need a different combination of medications, supplements, and

healthy lifestyle (including diet and exercise) in order to repair their bodies.

And some people take longer to heal and detoxify than others. I know it is a

long, difficult road to recovery....but I do not believe that one should

discontinue the AP because it does not appear to work. Maybe that person just

needs to find the right combination for himself/herself.

I wish everyone the best and hope that we can all be pain-free one day. God

Bless!

Mel

Re: HOW MUCH WATER DO YOU NEED?.htm

Mel,

Glad that more water works for you. I think it depends on the individual.

We're all different. I posted the article because I found it interesting in

view of all the input I found here about large intakes of water. Despite

Ethel's viewpoint that it was inexcusable that I post this, I thought this was a

forum to discuss the antibiotic therapy and side therapies associated with it.

There appears to be an extraordinary number of variations of the antibiotic

therapy, so I don't think a different viewpoint of the amount of water one

intakes, is, or should be contentious. It is certainly debateable. I can not

comment or confirm Dr. Mirkin's sources - I trust him to evaluate those before

posting and you can form your own judgment, just as I do in regards to Ethel's

sources.

Incidentally, I too, have been a patient of Dr. Kempf's myself. I would not

recommend him as an AP doc. Whereas he prescribed it for me, it was apparent he

did not really believe in it. Like many traditional docs, he is most likely

inclined to follow the road that leads to the least lawsuits.

On a side note, I think " ghastly poisons " when referring to Enbrel and

Remicade may be a bit strong, as they are continually shown to be of significant

benefit to many (http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/2785). I realize that the

antibiotic forum is a forum for those who wish to avoid the medical

establishment's normal prescriptions, but I would hate to see someone decide to

exist on aspirin alone, should the antibiotic therapy for whatever reason, fail

them. Personally, I have been on a regimen of methotrexate for 5 years now

(after a year on AP) and much to the surprise, no doubt of many here, I'm not

dead yet. (knock on wood). I consider myself fortunate that there was an

alternative for myself and one that was affordable. I'll still switch to any

alternative that appears safer, if I feel that it can be of benefit. I admire

those of you who tough it out over the years through many herxes - I didn't like

the progress of the radiological erosions I experienced while on it and for me

personally, felt it was time to change. I still have minor progression of

erosion, but slowed considerably. You may have no progression and may be doing

fine and I think that is wonderful.

Despite not currently taking AP, I do pay attention to postings and am

interested in new approaches or new studies involving it. I am also interested

in Bab's chicken collagen stories, which are also a bit removed from the AP. I

hope one of these days, we'll here more from the human genome project. But,

mostly I'm interested in whatever works and hope that you feel the same.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Mel,

I am glad you wrote what you did. I was several years on mtx befre

AP. It damaged my immune system( bone marrow suppression)

irreparably! I have been on AP for 7 1/2 yrs and have had to try to

rebuild with many alt txs what the mtx did. I am up to a 3.1 white

count from a 1.8! Trust me with a low white count..you go NO WHERE!!!

I agree too that we need dietary changes and to approach allegies as

they impact the immune system as well( I do naet). I am doing

hormone supplements (natural) and you need thyroid testing as well It

all works togther. Also, dmards allow yeast to have a field day as it

is suppressing your immunity and the yeast is allowed to run wild.Its

been my main problem even now as I have such a poor defense system.

Ap saved my life and yes I have had to scramble to find a right combo

for me but it has been totally worthwhile.

Love Marge

> Mark,

>

> I am glad that Methotrexate works for you. And I hope that you do

not exhaust your immune system should you need it one day. DMARDs

are immune depressants, as you well know by this time. Immune

suppression is not a side effect; It is what DMARDS are created to

do. I am not saying that sometimes other means are not necessary.

But, I think the majority of us would like to save our immune systems

just in case we need them in the future. I continue with my

sulfasalazine (a less ghastly poison), just to keep my disease in

check while I am on the AP. However, I know that it will cause

damage in the long run. I hope to ween off of it in the near

future. But, we cannot deny that the DMARDs poison our bodies and

diminish our immune systems that we all need in order to survive. I

am not trying to offend anyone. I do not judge others for continuing

or starting DMARDs, as I do so myself. But we cannot sugar coat the

fact that they are poisons.

>

> On a side note, I am not suggesting that anyone should " exist on

aspirin alone " , nor do I believe that the antibiotic therapy fails

anyone. Each person is different and may need a different

combination of medications, supplements, and healthy lifestyle

(including diet and exercise) in order to repair their bodies. And

some people take longer to heal and detoxify than others. I know it

is a long, difficult road to recovery....but I do not believe that

one should discontinue the AP because it does not appear to work.

Maybe that person just needs to find the right combination for

himself/herself.

>

> I wish everyone the best and hope that we can all be pain-free one

day. God Bless!

>

> Mel

> Re: HOW MUCH WATER DO YOU NEED?.htm

>

>

> Mel,

> Glad that more water works for you. I think it depends on the

individual. We're all different. I posted the article because I

found it interesting in view of all the input I found here about

large intakes of water. Despite Ethel's viewpoint that it was

inexcusable that I post this, I thought this was a forum to discuss

the antibiotic therapy and side therapies associated with it. There

appears to be an extraordinary number of variations of the antibiotic

therapy, so I don't think a different viewpoint of the amount of

water one intakes, is, or should be contentious. It is certainly

debateable. I can not comment or confirm Dr. Mirkin's sources - I

trust him to evaluate those before posting and you can form your own

judgment, just as I do in regards to Ethel's sources.

>

> Incidentally, I too, have been a patient of Dr. Kempf's myself.

I would not recommend him as an AP doc. Whereas he prescribed it for

me, it was apparent he did not really believe in it. Like many

traditional docs, he is most likely inclined to follow the road that

leads to the least lawsuits.

>

> On a side note, I think " ghastly poisons " when referring to

Enbrel and Remicade may be a bit strong, as they are continually

shown to be of significant benefit to many

(http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/2785). I realize that the

antibiotic forum is a forum for those who wish to avoid the medical

establishment's normal prescriptions, but I would hate to see someone

decide to exist on aspirin alone, should the antibiotic therapy for

whatever reason, fail them. Personally, I have been on a regimen of

methotrexate for 5 years now (after a year on AP) and much to the

surprise, no doubt of many here, I'm not dead yet. (knock on wood).

I consider myself fortunate that there was an alternative for myself

and one that was affordable. I'll still switch to any alternative

that appears safer, if I feel that it can be of benefit. I admire

those of you who tough it out over the years through many herxes - I

didn't like the progress of the radiological erosions I experienced

while on it and for me personally, felt it was time to change. I

still have minor progression of erosion, but slowed considerably.

You may have no progression and may be doing fine and I think that is

wonderful.

>

> Despite not currently taking AP, I do pay attention to postings

and am interested in new approaches or new studies involving it. I

am also interested in Bab's chicken collagen stories, which are also

a bit removed from the AP. I hope one of these days, we'll here more

from the human genome project. But, mostly I'm interested in

whatever works and hope that you feel the same.

>

> Mark

>

>

[Guest guest]

Geoff here.

Mark wrote:

> I hope one of these days, we'll here [sic]

> more from the human genome project.

Thus far the evidence points toward using genetics to (a) identify those who

have a higher than average probability of developing the disease and (

selectively shutting down those immune system functions that create the

symptoms, e.g., swelling, thick blood (high SED rate), etc.

Our first taste of the common use of genetics occurred many years ago as

pregnant women began to be tested to see if their baby __might__ have Down's

Syndrome. If the test is positive, the mother-to-be is commonly advised to

kill the child before it is born via abortion. Keep in mind, the positive

test is not a guarantee that Down's will present, nor of its severity if it

does; just that the marker is factually present.

The prospects are... exciting. Excitement, however, is not always a good

thing.

BTW, adequate water to defecate does not equate to adequate water to flush

the kidneys, perspirate toxins, expel sinoid irritants, etc. IMO, Mirkin's

perspective is valuable only to those confronted with the specter (real or

imagined) of death through dehydration; At times such as that, his words

would be invaluable. Absent that, he's all wet. Drink enough to run clear,

or nearly clear, and you're good to go. All puns intended. :-)

Geoff

soli Deo gloria

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