RE: High expectations

November 1, 2004

Hi Tonya,

Wow! I can relate to a lot of what you posted.

I used to be afraid to sit on anything that wasn't extremely sturdy.

Breaking a chair or two - always in front of other people, of course -

will do that to a person. It was a great day when I realized that I

had been sitting in a camp chair & hadn't thought about it until

later.

My weight had definitely become an obstacle. There were just so many

things that I could not handle physically - others that I just felt too

self-conscious to do. My life was getting smaller and smaller. I am

happy to say that that does change, even if it is taking me a bit

because I had let myself get really divorced from the world.

About your husband's expectations: it sounds like you and your husband

have a good relationship and are able to talk stuff through. It might

be a good idea to talk with him concerning your worries about meeting

his expectations. Remember, too, that just because you can do things,

doesn't mean you have to do them.

I am not sure what my husband's expectations were - my guess is that he

just expected that I'd be able to walk a bit better. I don't think

that he really expected me to want to do so much more. Hee, hee . . .

sometimes, it is fun seeing him adjust to this new me.

About the temptation to stray - that was one thing that I wasn't

prepared for. But it has happened (the temptation, not the

straying). I think that the way you expressed your concern - "I can

see myself being swept up in the idea before reality were to set in." -

is quite apt. It is the idea that I can be attractive enough to have

someone woo me that is ever so intoxicating. This has led to some

really wonderful talks with my husband - because the reality is that I

love him and he is a good man. But he and I needed to talk about

temptations and what makes them so . . . well, tempting.

I don't know if any of this lengthy ramble would be considered "words

of wisdom" - but it is my 2 cents worth.

All the best,

Kay

in San Leandro

open RNY 12/1/03

CrazyT wrote:

My husband, Beau, and I went to a Halloween party last

night, and he said some things that made me think.

I didn't really want to go to the party because it was

a costume party and I didn't feel like dressing up.

This is a new thing for me. Halloween has always been

my fave holiday, with me beginning to plan my costumes

around July of every year. The problem for me is that

I like sexy Halloween costumes and I haven't felt sexy

since about 50 lbs ago (which would be within the last

couple of years). Last year, we didn't do anything for

Halloween, but this year I was determined not to be a

spoil sport.

The best man from our wedding and his wife throw a

killer Halloween party every year, one that I manage

to avoid every year. I'm not the most comfortable in

party environments. I prefer small groups.

Well, we went last night, both in costume. I wasn't

being very social, not intentionally so much as just

not being able to comfortably mingle with anyone. This

couple has a full bar in the basement, and we were

down there playing air hockey. They had camping chairs

set up and my husband asked me to sit in one. I said

no (I sit in nothing not made of solid wood or steel;

I've broken way too many outdoor chairs in the last

couple of years). But I relented because he said he

was thinking of getting us a set. He said they seemed

very sturdy, but he wanted to make sure they were wide

enough for me to be comfortable.

So, I sat in it, and for the most part, the chair fine

-- a little hard to get out of, but not so bad.

As we're sitting in the chairs, Beau starts talking

about all this outdoors stuff he wants to buy because

"Once you get your surgery, you'll want to do more

with me." That made me stop for a second. I asked him

what things he thought I would do after the surgery

that I won't do now.

He listed a few things: be more social, go out to the

lake with his friends on their houseboat, go camping,

hiking, ride rides at amusement parks, etc.

His statement made me come to two realizations that

both hit me like a ton of bricks. The first and most

traumatizing is that I've become my MOTHER --

egads!--she has been using her weight as an excuse to

not live ever since I can remember...I'm still

shivering over that.

The second is that Beau has some high expectations

invested in the outcome of WLS for me. Part of me is

saddened that he now sees my weight as an obstacle.

There was once a time when I was determined to do

everything the same as anyone else -- weight be

damned. But that's really changed in the last four

years. I've had knee and hip problems that serious

affect my mobility. I can't walk the mall with

breathing heavy and breaking into a sweat. A simple

flight of stairs is almost more than I can handle.

I thought I was doing a good job of hiding those

things from Beau, though now I'm not sure what I was

thinking. After all, it's not like he could miss the

fact that I no longer clean our floors on my hands and

knees, instead favoring a mop -- or that I don't take

bubble baths (my butt is wider than the tub), or that

I'm not as active with our nieces and nephew.

Talking about it further, he's spent the last four

years or so thinking that I don't like his friends.

I've never said any unkind words about his friends.

Actually, I like each of them quite a bit. But I never

accept any of their invitations to get together, which

made Beau think I didn't like them.

It wasn't until July, when he and my cousin were

discussing my reasons for wanting WLS that she clued

him into the possibility that it wasn't my dislike of

his friends that kept me from wanting to be social

with them, but that it could be that I was

uncomfortable with their level of activity.

I'm glad he never said anything to me until last night

because I would have denied it. But it's the truth.

His friends are an active bunch. They go skiing,

camping, waterskiing, hiking, rafting -- you name it,

they do it. Whereas my friends go to the theater, have

girly spa days, shop, organize entire days of

cooking/baking, etc. Basically, my friends are more

sedentary, or at least they are more sedentary in

activities that I participate in.

Now, Beau sees WLS as the key to me living life --

which is good, I think. I'm just a little scared that

I won't live up to that expectation. Though I haven't

posted incredibly often over the last couple of

months, I read each post rather carefully. And I see

myself in many of the post-op challenges.

Gemello's candid posting of his invitation to stray

and the temptation to do so really hit home with me.

As did the posting by the person who is struggling

with post-op depression.

Part of the reason I believe having WLS is necessary

is because I'm so terrified of being thin that I know

I will never be able to lose weight any other way. All

the health problems in the world wouldn't overcome

that fear.

I believe WLS will force me to face that fear and deal

with whatever emotional ickiness that comes with it.

But I'm sure there will be a period of depression that

comes along with that healing. I'll need to mourn the

loss of the "old me" before I can truly enjoy the "new

me."

I'm also not sure how strong I'd be if any other man

expressed interest in me. I'd like to say that I

wouldn't give another man the time of day because Beau

is too good to lose. But I don't know. I can see

myself being swept up in the idea before reality were

to set in. And I don't think that's something I can

really prepare for until after the surgery.

Anyhow, that's where I'm at right now. Anyone have any

words of wisdom?

Tonya (in )

Approved to SSF

Orientation: Nov. 16

November 2, 2004

crs? craft?

Gordy wrote:

Bee...Be thankful for LBM's. Pretty soon they will be replaced with SM's (senior moments) I know...I have them all the time...HeeHeeRegards,Gordy-40#> > My husband, Beau, and I went to a Halloween party last> > night, and he said some things that made me think.> > > > I didn't

really want to go to the party because it was> > a costume party and I didn't feel like dressing up.> > This is a new thing for me. Halloween has always been> > my fave holiday, with me beginning to plan my costumes> > around July of every year. The problem for me is that> > I like sexy Halloween costumes and I haven't felt sexy> > since about 50 lbs ago (which would be within the last> > couple of years). Last year, we didn't do anything for> > Halloween, but this year I was determined not to be a> > spoil sport.> > > > The best man from our wedding and his wife throw a> > killer Halloween party every year, one that I manage> > to avoid every year. I'm not the most comfortable in> > party environments. I prefer small groups.> > > > Well, we went last night, both in costume. I wasn't> > being very social, not

intentionally so much as just> > not being able to comfortably mingle with anyone. This> > couple has a full bar in the basement, and we were> > down there playing air hockey. They had camping chairs> > set up and my husband asked me to sit in one. I said> > no (I sit in nothing not made of solid wood or steel;> > I've broken way too many outdoor chairs in the last> > couple of years). But I relented because he said he> > was thinking of getting us a set. He said they seemed> > very sturdy, but he wanted to make sure they were wide> > enough for me to be comfortable.> > > > So, I sat in it, and for the most part, the chair fine> > -- a little hard to get out of, but not so bad.> > > > As we're sitting in the chairs, Beau starts talking> > about all this outdoors stuff he wants to buy because> > "Once you get your

surgery, you'll want to do more> > with me." That made me stop for a second. I asked him> > what things he thought I would do after the surgery> > that I won't do now.> > > > He listed a few things: be more social, go out to the> > lake with his friends on their houseboat, go camping,> > hiking, ride rides at amusement parks, etc.> > > > His statement made me come to two realizations that> > both hit me like a ton of bricks. The first and most> > traumatizing is that I've become my MOTHER --> > egads!--she has been using her weight as an excuse to> > not live ever since I can remember...I'm still> > shivering over that.> > > > The second is that Beau has some high expectations> > invested in the outcome of WLS for me. Part of me is> > saddened that he now sees my weight as an obstacle.> > There

was once a time when I was determined to do> > everything the same as anyone else -- weight be> > damned. But that's really changed in the last four> > years. I've had knee and hip problems that serious> > affect my mobility. I can't walk the mall with> > breathing heavy and breaking into a sweat. A simple> > flight of stairs is almost more than I can handle.> > > > I thought I was doing a good job of hiding those> > things from Beau, though now I'm not sure what I was> > thinking. After all, it's not like he could miss the> > fact that I no longer clean our floors on my hands and> > knees, instead favoring a mop -- or that I don't take> > bubble baths (my butt is wider than the tub), or that> > I'm not as active with our nieces and nephew.> > > > Talking about it further, he's spent the last four> > years or so

thinking that I don't like his friends.> > > > I've never said any unkind words about his friends.> > Actually, I like each of them quite a bit. But I never> > accept any of their invitations to get together, which> > made Beau think I didn't like them.> > > > It wasn't until July, when he and my cousin were> > discussing my reasons for wanting WLS that she clued> > him into the possibility that it wasn't my dislike of> > his friends that kept me from wanting to be social> > with them, but that it could be that I was> > uncomfortable with their level of activity.> > > > I'm glad he never said anything to me until last night> > because I would have denied it. But it's the truth.> > > > His friends are an active bunch. They go skiing,> > camping, waterskiing, hiking, rafting -- you name it,> > they

do it. Whereas my friends go to the theater, have> > girly spa days, shop, organize entire days of> > cooking/baking, etc. Basically, my friends are more> > sedentary, or at least they are more sedentary in> > activities that I participate in.> > > > Now, Beau sees WLS as the key to me living life --> > which is good, I think. I'm just a little scared that> > I won't live up to that expectation. Though I haven't> > posted incredibly often over the last couple of> > months, I read each post rather carefully. And I see> > myself in many of the post-op challenges.> > > > Gemello's candid posting of his invitation to stray> > and the temptation to do so really hit home with me.> > As did the posting by the person who is struggling> > with post-op depression. > > > > Part of the reason I believe having WLS is

necessary> > is because I'm so terrified of being thin that I know> > I will never be able to lose weight any other way. All> > the health problems in the world wouldn't overcome> > that fear.> > > > I believe WLS will force me to face that fear and deal> > with whatever emotional ickiness that comes with it.> > But I'm sure there will be a period of depression that> > comes along with that healing. I'll need to mourn the> > loss of the "old me" before I can truly enjoy the "new> > me."> > > > I'm also not sure how strong I'd be if any other man> > expressed interest in me. I'd like to say that I> > wouldn't give another man the time of day because Beau> > is too good to lose. But I don't know. I can see> > myself being swept up in the idea before reality were> > to set in. And I don't think that's

something I can> > really prepare for until after the surgery.> > > > Anyhow, that's where I'm at right now. Anyone have any> > words of wisdom?> > > > Tonya (in )> > Approved to SSF> > Orientation: Nov. 16> > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________> > Do you Yahoo!?> > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail> > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > Do you Yahoo!?> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com> > > >

November 3, 2004

Kay,

I appreciate your response. The chair things is a big

thing for me. Someone else posted here about their

world becoming smaller as they got bigger, and I see

that's what's happened with me.

It's a little scary to realize that, but I'm excited

at recognizing a challenge that needs to be overcome.

If anything, I realize more and more every day how

this is the right decision.

Tonya (in )

Kaiser SSF

Orientation: Nov. 16

--- Kay wrote:

> Hi Tonya,

>

> Wow! I can relate to a lot of what you posted.

>

> I used to be afraid to sit on anything that wasn't

> extremely sturdy.

> Breaking a chair or two - always in front of other

> people, of course -

> will do that to a person. It was a great day when I

> realized that I had

> been sitting in a camp chair & hadn't thought about

> it until later.

>

> My weight had definitely become an obstacle. There

> were just so many

> things that I could not handle physically - others

> that I just felt too

> self-conscious to do. My life was getting smaller

> and smaller. I am

> happy to say that that does change, even if it is

> taking me a bit

> because I had let myself get really divorced from

> the world.

>

> About your husband's expectations: it sounds like

> you and your husband

> have a good relationship and are able to talk stuff

> through. It might

> be a good idea to talk with him concerning your

> worries about meeting

> his expectations. Remember, too, that just because

> you can do things,

> doesn't mean you have to do them.

>

> I am not sure what my husband's expectations were -

> my guess is that he

> just expected that I'd be able to walk a bit better.

> I don't think that

> he really expected me to want to do so much more.

> Hee, hee . . .

> sometimes, it is fun seeing him adjust to this new

> me.

>

> About the temptation to stray - that was one thing

> that I wasn't

> prepared for. But it has happened (the temptation,

> not the straying).

> I think that the way you expressed your concern - " I

> can see myself

> being swept up in the idea before reality were to

> set in. " - is quite

> apt. It is the idea that I can be attractive enough

> to have someone woo

> me that is ever so intoxicating. This has led to

> some really wonderful

> talks with my husband - because the reality is that

> I love him and he is

> a good man. But he and I needed to talk about

> temptations and what

> makes them so . . . well, tempting.

>

> I don't know if any of this lengthy ramble would be

> considered " words of

> wisdom " - but it is my 2 cents worth.

>

> All the best,

>

> Kay

> in San Leandro

> open RNY 12/1/03

>

> CrazyT wrote:

>

> > My husband, Beau, and I went to a Halloween party

> last

> > night, and he said some things that made me think.

> >

> > I didn't really want to go to the party because it

> was

> > a costume party and I didn't feel like dressing

> up.

> > This is a new thing for me. Halloween has always

> been

> > my fave holiday, with me beginning to plan my

> costumes

> > around July of every year. The problem for me is

> that

> > I like sexy Halloween costumes and I haven't felt

> sexy

> > since about 50 lbs ago (which would be within the

> last

> > couple of years). Last year, we didn't do anything

> for

> > Halloween, but this year I was determined not to

> be a

> > spoil sport.

> >

> > The best man from our wedding and his wife throw a

> > killer Halloween party every year, one that I

> manage

> > to avoid every year. I'm not the most comfortable

> in

> > party environments. I prefer small groups.

> >

> > Well, we went last night, both in costume. I

> wasn't

> > being very social, not intentionally so much as

> just

> > not being able to comfortably mingle with anyone.

> This

> > couple has a full bar in the basement, and we were

> > down there playing air hockey. They had camping

> chairs

> > set up and my husband asked me to sit in one. I

> said

> > no (I sit in nothing not made of solid wood or

> steel;

> > I've broken way too many outdoor chairs in the

> last

> > couple of years). But I relented because he said

> he

> > was thinking of getting us a set. He said they

> seemed

> > very sturdy, but he wanted to make sure they were

> wide

> > enough for me to be comfortable.

> >

> > So, I sat in it, and for the most part, the chair

> fine

> > -- a little hard to get out of, but not so bad.

> >

> > As we're sitting in the chairs, Beau starts

> talking

> > about all this outdoors stuff he wants to buy

> because

> > " Once you get your surgery, you'll want to do more

> > with me. " That made me stop for a second. I asked

> him

> > what things he thought I would do after the

> surgery

> > that I won't do now.

> >

> > He listed a few things: be more social, go out to

> the

> > lake with his friends on their houseboat, go

> camping,

> > hiking, ride rides at amusement parks, etc.

> >

> > His statement made me come to two realizations

> that

> > both hit me like a ton of bricks. The first and

> most

> > traumatizing is that I've become my MOTHER --

> > egads!--she has been using her weight as an excuse

> to

> > not live ever since I can remember...I'm still

> > shivering over that.

> >

> > The second is that Beau has some high expectations

> > invested in the outcome of WLS for me. Part of me

> is

> > saddened that he now sees my weight as an

> obstacle.

> > There was once a time when I was determined to do

> > everything the same as anyone else -- weight be

> > damned. But that's really changed in the last four

> > years. I've had knee and hip problems that serious

> > affect my mobility. I can't walk the mall with

> > breathing heavy and breaking into a sweat. A

> simple

> > flight of stairs is almost more than I can handle.

> >

> > I thought I was doing a good job of hiding those

> > things from Beau, though now I'm not sure what I

> was

> > thinking. After all, it's not like he could miss

> the

> > fact that I no longer clean our floors on my hands

> and

> > knees, instead favoring a mop -- or that I don't

> take

> > bubble baths (my butt is wider than the tub), or

> that

> > I'm not as active with our nieces and nephew.

> >

> > Talking about it further, he's spent the last four

> > years or so thinking that I don't like his

> friends.

> >

> > I've never said any unkind words about his

> friends.

> > Actually, I like each of them quite a bit. But I

> never

> > accept any of their invitations to get together,

> which

> > made Beau think I didn't like them.

> >

> > It wasn't until July, when he and my cousin were

> > discussing my reasons for wanting WLS that she

> clued

> > him into the possibility that it wasn't my dislike

> of

> > his friends that kept me from wanting to be social

> > with them, but that it could be that I was

> > uncomfortable with their level of activity.

> >

> > I'm glad he never said anything to me until last

> night

> > because I would have denied it. But it's the

> truth.

> >

> > His friends are an active bunch. They go skiing,

> > camping, waterskiing, hiking, rafting -- you name

> it,

> > they do it. Whereas my friends go to the theater,

> have

> > girly spa days, shop, organize entire days of

> > cooking/baking, etc. Basically, my friends are

> more

> > sedentary, or at least they are more sedentary in

> > activities that I participate in.

> >

> > Now, Beau sees WLS as the key to me living life --

> > which is good, I think. I'm just a little scared

> that

> > I won't live up to that expectation. Though I

> haven't

> > posted incredibly often over the last couple of

> > months, I read each post rather carefully. And I

> see

> > myself in many of the post-op challenges.

> >

> > Gemello's candid posting of his invitation to

> stray

> > and the temptation to do so really hit home with

> me.

> > As did the posting by the person who is struggling

> > with post-op depression.

> >

> > Part of the reason I believe having WLS is

> necessary

> > is because I'm so terrified of being thin that I

> know

> > I will never be able to lose weight any other way.

> All

> > the health problems in the world wouldn't overcome

> > that fear.

> >

> > I believe WLS will force me to face that fear and

> deal

> > with whatever emotional ickiness that comes with

> it.

> > But I'm sure there will be a period of depression

> that

> > comes along with that healing. I'll need to mourn

> the

> > loss of the " old me " before I can truly enjoy the

> " new

> > me. "

> >

> > I'm also not sure how strong I'd be if any other

> man

> > expressed interest in me. I'd like to say that I

> > wouldn't give another man the time of day because

> Beau

> > is too good to lose. But I don't know. I can see

> > myself being swept up in the idea before reality

> were

> > to set in. And I don't think that's something I

> can

> > really prepare for until after the surgery.

> >

> > Anyhow, that's where I'm at right now. Anyone have

> any

> > words of wisdom?

> >

> > Tonya (in )

> > Approved to SSF

> > Orientation: Nov. 16

>

__________________________________________________

November 3, 2004

Hi Gemello,

Expectations and fear of success . . . now that is food for thought.

I've never been good at journaling, but wish now that I could look back

and see what my expectations were. In thinking back to last year, my

expectations were pretty limited - I expected to walk a bit better, to

maybe get down to a size 16 if I was lucky, and to be approved for knee

replacement surgeries eventually. Well, I've met those expectations. I

also expected to look older than I did before surgery - and I am happy

to say that that expectation has not been realized. I don't remember

what else I might have expected . . . but I know that this journey has

encompassed so much more than I could have imagined.

The fear of success is an insidious thing. Of course, success is a great

thing . . . but there are so many aspects to our lives that success in

one area can lead to changes that aren't always comfortable and, if

we're not careful, we can end up sabotaging ourselves. You asked, " What

happens if I actually reach goal? Will I like the way I look? Will

others find me attractive? Will I be able to resist? " I find myself

asking much the same questions, but I also ask " Who will I be? " - it was

my therapist who pointed out that so very much of my identity has been

tied up in being an obese person. In many ways, I am having to re-invent

myself. To complicate matters, I have been on disability for a long time

and have hidden from the world. My disability is still there, but I am

hoping that things will improve with further surgeries and I am getting

eager to rejoin life, even though it scares me silly. A lot of my

depression lately has been centered around this part of my life.

I am sure that you will find ways to handle the difficult stuff , to

meet the challenges and to experience life to its fullest. You have

embraced the mind-body-spirit aspect of this journey - and that does so

seem to be the key to it all.

BTW I went to the SSF drop-in support group yesterday. I can see why you

credit Gity with providing you with such positive direction. I will

definitely be going back. Thanks for telling me about that meeting.

All the best,

Kay

in San Leandro

open RNY 12/1/03

gemellodigiovanni wrote:

>

> You know, Tonya, you've hit on some important points here. This

> relationship stuff is part of the baggage that we carry on our

> journey.

>

> It's important to start working on these feelings now. As with all

> aspects of this journey, life does not begin after surgery, it begins

> now. If you need to talk to someone about it, do so, and we are here

> for you when you need a co-traveler's perspective.

>

> It's interesting. I too have dealt with the fear of success. What

> happens if I actually reach goal? Will I like the way I look? Will

> others find me attractive? Will I be able to resist? Well, I have

> to tell you that I didn't want the fear to hold me back. Have my

> fears come to pass? Somewhat. Am I now a wanton sex maniac? No.

> But it's very strange to be considered attractive to others,

> especially when I don't define myself on my supposed looks.

>

> And now, there's Ian, a new friend I met at square dancing. He

> approached me after square dancing one night, we had a nice

> conversation and found we had a lot in common, even the same masters

> degree. He gave me his business card and phone. We met last Sunday

> for lunch (Zach knew where I was and with whom). Ian and I had a

> great time.

>

> But here it is again. While Ian and I have only expressed interest

> in friendship, I find myself thinking about him all the time (with

> some admittedly not-so-innocent thoughts). I know that Ian is

> attracted to me (without getting too graphic, there was some physical

> evidence of his attraction). And I'm saying to myself, " Oh God, here

> is the situation all over again. No. No. No. I can't

> go through that again. " But it is so much more complicated than

> that. I want Ian as a friend. I don't want to just end stuff

> because it gets difficult to sort things out. I want to sort things

> out as they happen; I want to experience life. I don't want to flee

> from challenges; I want to find the answers that best fit my needs

> and Zach's too. I am attracted to Ian, yes, but how do I open myself

> to friendship without all the other stuff getting in the way?

>

> You talk about mourning the " old you. " You know, I too feel a kind

> of sad nostalgia. But it comes from a place of total love and

> acceptance of the old me. I now freely give him what he wanted all

> along—my unconditional love and care.

>

> As for being strong if another expresses interest, that is such a

> difficult issue for me. I don't want to hurt Zach, but I am still

> highly flattered by people I find attractive finding me attractive.

> It's as if I have been awoken from a deep slumber to find myself

> suddenly different and alive. The hormones must be raging inside of

> me, or maybe I was just never in touch with that side of myself.

> Well, I just hope that I can continue on my path, doing the best I

> can. I will hope for the best and pick myself up if I fall.

>

> You know, you're right about not being able to prepare for the

> temptation before surgery, but you're already way ahead of the game.

> You know that it's a possibility so you know that you've got us here

> to understand you.

>

> The unfortunate thing about this process is that our partner's can be

> caught totally off guard by our changes. We have support groups, but

> there is not a support group for them. I was warned that gastric

> bypass has a common, surprise side effect: a high divorce rate. I've

> been told that the high divorce rate happens when one partner is

> unable or unwilling to adapt to the " new " partner.

>

> I am totally new, yet I'm still the same me. I just don't have a

> suit of fat armor to " protect " me from life experiences. But I have

> to say, it is so much more wonderful sorting this stuff out than

> hiding behind a bag of Doritos.

>

> Best of luck, Tonya.

>

> Gemello

> -153 lbs / at goal

November 3, 2004