Re: How Long Does It Take?

[Guest guest]

Amy,

I don't think sleeping next to your mom's bed is the cause of your

problems. I was put in a completely different end of the house and was

forced to get myself back to sleep. I ended up frightened and alone and

crying myself to sleep many a night. I am a major insomniac. Have a hard

time going to sleep and a hard time going back to sleep and am still afraid

of the dark at 30. No a baby won't starve to death but they can be worse

for it. There are very small spiritual connections that we have to our

babies and each time that our babies aren't tended to when they need it

those connections CAN (not necessarily will) be broken. For some babies

this isn't a problem. They might need a few minutes on their own to fuss

and settle themselves but other babies need the constant companionship of

another human. This is a physical need that they cannot rationalize away

(oh well it's dark out so now I don't need anyone) Meeting a child's needs

does not make them dependent on you, it makes them realize their indepence

in a healthy and supported way. I know that as a child being left to tend

for myself was devestating to my ability to trust in people to care for me.

I still have a very hard time trusting anyone with my physical reality. I

don't go to doctors, have a very difficult time with asking for help and

really have a hard time trusting that people will pull through for me.

This type of feeling hasn't really gone away over time. Zaid has always

slept with us and now can comfort himself back to sleep at night.

Sometimes I need to put my hand on him but most often he just goes back to

sleep on his own. He has never been left to cry it out. My daughter was a

completely different case. She still has a hard time putting herself back

to sleep. She was out of our bed from 1-3yo and didn't start to get better

about sleeping until she was back in our bed. She stayed until 6 and now

sleeps in her own room and goes to sleep by herself most often. I think

every mom needs to do what is right for her family but to say that leaving

them to cry they won't starve or be any worse is not necessarily true for a

more high need baby. It sounds like has been pretty easy to deal

with as far as sleep goes. Having a baby that screams anytime you leave

the room from the first day of birth until well past a year has helped me

to open my eyes to the many different types of babies and their different

needs. This type of a baby would be much worse off for having been left to

cry. I know this all too well from my first child and my failed attempts

at sleep training and the emotional problems I have had to deal with as a

result of it. Please try to remember that not all babies respond so

quickly and some just are completely unable to put themselves to sleep

until an older age.

Wendi

Re: How Long Does It Take?

From: Feb98@...

In a message dated 7/25/99 11:43:45 AM Central Daylight Time,

Mparker90@... writes:

Of course a childs needs will always come first. But I do honestly think

that

we bring ALOT of our childrens sleep problems on ourselves. In my opinion

children just wake up at night because that is what they have always done

SURE they may be hungry but only because that is the time they have always

eaten. Doesn't mean if they were to wait a while longer they would starve

to

death or even be any worse for it. They will make up for it with increased

day time feedings. I think it is VERY important to be able to put yourself

BACK to sleep on your own. As an adult it is VERY hard for me to fall

asleep

and when I wake up in the middle of the night it is even harder to get back

to sleep it has ALWAYS been like that. As a child I never learned how to

put

myself back to sleep and it has carried over to be a MAJOR problem for me

now. I used to sleep in a crib right next to my moms bed so when I would

wake

up she would pat my back until I feel back asleep. Then once I was out of

my

crib and in my own room. I couldn't sleep without my moms help so I would

go

sleep on the floor next to her bed. I think by not teaching our children

how

to comfort themselves we are doing them a disservice. Grantedt they are

tiny

only once and for such a short amount of time but it is ALOT eaier to teach

a

1 year old how to put themselves to sleep them a 24 year old. Believe

me

I have tried.

Amy

[Guest guest]

Children and babies don't wake up hungry at night out of HABIT anymore

than they arrive at the kitchen table near noon out of HABIT. They are

driven by hunger, babies espeically! They have no desire to manipulate

their parents, and they weren't put in your care in order to be

disruptive to your family, contrary to many books!

Merely because your experienced difficulty falling asleep at night

doesn't predetermine that all of your children will have the same

problem. There is likely some underlying *reason* why you are unable to

fall asleep, and it probably has very little to do with the way your

mother put you to sleep before you were two years old.... or even 5

years old. Perhaps finding the underlying cause of YOUR sleep problems

will help you learn how to deal with DAVID's nighttime needs, or Sue

with Marissa's nighttime needs.

Thinking or justifying the skipped night feedings based on the

opportunity to overfeed them during the day is setting up a life-long

series of problems. Those are the sort of problems driven by habit!

Teaching a seven-month-old who might have just begun mastering large

motor skills, like sitting and crawling to sleep through the night is

forcing a developmental process. Babies often wake at night finding

themselves practicing these new skills in their sleep, and responding to

them is NOT going to cause long-term problems. They learn to fall

asleep and sleep through the night much in the same way they learn to

crawl, or walk, or talk. There's not alot you can do to make it happen

before the child is ABLE to do it on his own.

Anecdotally, my oldest child who slept in a separate room from 3 months

of age and on, with a fixed routine and bedtime, has more difficulty

falling asleep now than his two siblings who are allowed to settle into

bedtime when they become tired, and can recognize their own body's signs

of sleepiness, and they sleep more soundly than their older brother. I

can even vacuum my house without waking those two, but not my oldest

child, who wakes at the slightest disturbance. When it's " bedtime, " he

usually lays in bed at night for up to two hours before he can fall

asleep.

Both my brother and I have sleep problems similar to insomnia, and we

were allowed to " cry it out " each and every night since the day we were

brought home from the hospital nearly.

Given my own experiences, which aren't anymore scientific than yours,

" crying it out " causes problems, not solves them.

[Guest guest]

Children and babies don't wake up hungry at night out of HABIT anymore

than they arrive at the kitchen table near noon out of HABIT. They are

driven by hunger, babies espeically! They have no desire to manipulate

their parents, and they weren't put in your care in order to be

disruptive to your family, contrary to many books!

Merely because your experienced difficulty falling asleep at night

doesn't predetermine that all of your children will have the same

problem. There is likely some underlying *reason* why you are unable to

fall asleep, and it probably has very little to do with the way your

mother put you to sleep before you were two years old.... or even 5

years old. Perhaps finding the underlying cause of YOUR sleep problems

will help you learn how to deal with DAVID's nighttime needs, or Sue

with Marissa's nighttime needs.

Thinking or justifying the skipped night feedings based on the

opportunity to overfeed them during the day is setting up a life-long

series of problems. Those are the sort of problems driven by habit!

Teaching a seven-month-old who might have just begun mastering large

motor skills, like sitting and crawling to sleep through the night is

forcing a developmental process. Babies often wake at night finding

themselves practicing these new skills in their sleep, and responding to

them is NOT going to cause long-term problems. They learn to fall

asleep and sleep through the night much in the same way they learn to

crawl, or walk, or talk. There's not alot you can do to make it happen

before the child is ABLE to do it on his own.

Anecdotally, my oldest child who slept in a separate room from 3 months

of age and on, with a fixed routine and bedtX-Mozilla-Status: 8018ty

falling asleep now than his two siblings who are allowed to settle into

bedtime when they become tired, and can recognize their own body's signs

of sleepiness, and they sleep more soundly than their older brother. I

can even vacuum my house without waking those two, but not my oldest

child, who wakes at the slightest disturbance. When it's " bedtime, " he

usually lays in bed at night for up to two hours before he can fall

asleep.

Both my brother and I have sleep problems similar to insomnia, and we

were allowed to " cry it out " each and every night since the day we were

brought home from the hospital nearly.

Given my own experiences, which aren't anymore scientific than yours,

" crying it out " causes problems, not solves them.

[Guest guest]

> Sometimes I need to put my hand on him but most often he just goes back

> to sleep on his own.

Wendi,

Someone told me some time ago that the length of time a person can be

expected to wait is related to their age... Like a 4 year old can wait

4 minutes, and a 15 year old can wait 15 minutes... I would think that

anything under one year old would expect and NEED to have his needs met

sooner than 60 minutes later.

This isn't saying that by not following this Rule of Thumb *strictly*

that you would be a bad parent... but it is a handy reminder of what a

person is capable of doing based on their age and levels of development!

[Guest guest]

Well thats one opinion but not necessarly the only one! Every one has a

right to their own opinion and I wish I had never asked this question!

SO PLEASE EVERY ONE LET'S CHANGE THIS TOPIC AND GET OFF IT TONIGHT! Hugs

Sue:)

On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:56:44 +0000 Howell

writes:

>

>

>Children and babies don't wake up hungry at night out of HABIT

>anymore

>than they arrive at the kitchen table near noon out of HABIT. They

>are

>driven by hunger, babies espeically! They have no desire to

>manipulate

>their parents, and they weren't put in your care in order to be

>disruptive to your family, contrary to many books!

>

>Merely because your experienced difficulty falling asleep at night

>doesn't predetermine that all of your children will have the same

>problem. There is likely some underlying *reason* why you are unable

>to

>fall asleep, and it probably has very little to do with the way your

>mother put you to sleep before you were two years old.... or even 5

>years old. Perhaps finding the underlying cause of YOUR sleep

>problems

>will help you learn how to deal with DAVID's nighttime needs, or Sue

>with Marissa's nighttime needs.

>

>Thinking or justifying the skipped night feedings based on the

>opportunity to overfeed them during the day is setting up a life-long

>series of problems. Those are the sort of problems driven by habit!

>

>Teaching a seven-month-old who might have just begun mastering large

>motor skills, like sitting and crawling to sleep through the night is

>forcing a developmental process. Babies often wake at night finding

>themselves practicing these new skills in their sleep, and responding

>to

>them is NOT going to cause long-term problems. They learn to fall

>asleep and sleep through the night much in the same way they learn to

>crawl, or walk, or talk. There's not alot you can do to make it

>happen

>before the child is ABLE to do it on his own.

>

>Anecdotally, my oldest child who slept in a separate room from 3

>months

>of age and on, with a fixed routine and bedtime, has more difficulty

>falling asleep now than his two siblings who are allowed to settle

>into

>bedtime when they become tired, and can recognize their own body's

>signs

>of sleepiness, and they sleep more soundly than their older brother.

>I

>can even vacuum my house without waking those two, but not my oldest

>child, who wakes at the slightest disturbance. When it's " bedtime, "

>he

>usually lays in bed at night for up to two hours before he can fall

>asleep.

>

>Both my brother and I have sleep problems similar to insomnia, and we

>were allowed to " cry it out " each and every night since the day we

>were

>brought home from the hospital nearly.

>

>Given my own experiences, which aren't anymore scientific than yours,

> " crying it out " causes problems, not solves them.

>

>

>

>

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

,

that is funny because I guess I instinctively do that anyway. I will let

him fuss a little bit, maybe a minute or two. That is a good rule to have.

thanks.

Wendi

Re: How Long Does It Take?

> Sometimes I need to put my hand on him but most often he just goes back

> to sleep on his own.

Wendi,

Someone told me some time ago that the length of time a person can be

expected to wait is related to their age... Like a 4 year old can wait

4 minutes, and a 15 year old can wait 15 minutes... I would think that

anything under one year old would expect and NEED to have his needs met

sooner than 60 minutes later.

This isn't saying that by not following this Rule of Thumb *strictly*

that you would be a bad parent... but it is a handy reminder of what a

person is capable of doing based on their age and levels of development!

---------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/26/99 6:27:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Feb98@... writes:

<< But I do honestly think that

we bring ALOT of our childrens sleep problems on ourselves >>

I guess this is where we just agree to disagree. I thought it was a dead

horse anyways?