Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 In a message dated 10/22/2004 4:16:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, garyland@... writes: > What > suchs is waking up at 2 am and find that you are hyperventilating , I suppose the possibilities for this are endless..but I'll just throw in that my 26 year old daughter does exactly as you describe...anxiety/panic attacks and waking up at night hyperventilating. And heck..I don't know if it's early thyroid problems (inherited by me) or her other condition which is Polycystic Kidney Disease. She has high blood pressure from that..and mostly her doctor attributes her anxiety to the blood pressure problems. Let's see what everyone else has to say.... Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 > I cannot tolerate any > thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. this stood out to me most. maybe others will jump in and have a more astute observation but i suspect you are suffering from low adrenal output, as treating a thyroid condition in the presence of tired adrenals without treating the adrenals first, often causes you to feel sick, and hyper symptoms are how they can manifest. best, baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 that is what I am like with low ferritin. Have you been tested > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones >To: NaturalThyroidHormones >Subject: I NEED ADVICE >Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 20:15:18 -0000 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hi ! Sorry to hear about your continued issues. , don't I remember correctly that you had high cortisol?? Let's do this. Respond to this, but give us as detailed a breakdown of your symptoms from when you first joined here (or before), your treatments (how much Armour you tried and how long you were on each amount, and any other meds you are on), your labs.....everything....so we can reevaluate all this for you. And...the problems you have been having since Sept 12th---were you on Armour at that time? How much, etc? What changed around that time? And what are you on now, etc? Janie > I have not written here in awhile, but having problems none the less. > I had been seeing Dr. Woliner for a while but had to give him up > since he is so expensive and does not take insurance. He was the > second doc in a row to try me on Armour. I cannot tolerate any > thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. With that beeing > said, he said that my thyroid numbers are not bad and that he can > treat me with suppliments to reduce my antibodies. Needless to say I > had to drop him and have not pursued that. I have been dealing with a > lot of anxiety problems off and on for the last month and a half. It > started about 9/12/04 or there abouts. I will hyperventilate have > rapid heart rate and sometimes sweat. The last two days and nights > have been good. Starting about 1 hour ago it started to hit me. So I > took an asprin thinking it might settle down an inflammed thyroid if > that is the problems. Last month I had 6 days solid of anxiety. What > suchs is waking up at 2 am and find that you are hyperventilating. I > really don't know what to do. I don't know if these problems are my > thyroid or something else. I really don't think it is a general > anxiety attack. I feel it is chemical or hormonal. Any advice would > be helpful. Thanks > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Baron, I stopped all thyroid about 8/20/04. Actually, after the hyper symptoms stopped when I stopped the Armour, I never felt so relaxed in my life from about 9/2/04 to 9/12/04. After that the axiety came in hard. Also, I was on 25mgs of DHEA which I reduced last month to 12.5 mgs. I have been off the DHEA for about 1.5 months. By the way, my adrenals were all tested. My DHEA before taking DHEA was normal. THe only thing that runs high for me is my Cortisol. It is about 28 at last test with NO fluctuation with time of day. gary > > > I cannot tolerate any > > thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. > > this stood out to me most. maybe others will jump in and have a more > astute observation but i suspect you are suffering from low adrenal > output, as treating a thyroid condition in the presence of tired > adrenals without treating the adrenals first, often causes you to feel > sick, and hyper symptoms are how they can manifest. > > best, > baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hi Janie, On 9/12/04 I was already off the Armour. There were two times (about 3 months appart) that I have tried Armour. THe tiniest amount causes hyper symptoms. At the time that anxiety started I was beginning to take 75 mgs of Avapro for my BP. Since the doc upped it to 150mgs about a month and a half ago my anxiety has gotten worse. I don't know if that is the cause or not. I am currently trying to wean off the bp meds and go natural with suppliments. My TSH will run from 5 to 12 and every where in between over many years. Dr. WOlner an MD and holistic doc said that my free T3's and free T4's where not bad. Free t3 was last tested at 303. My free T4 in May was .9 I have never been able to take more than 1 grain of armour for about 10 days. Even 1/4 makes me sweat, fast heart, hypervent, anxious. Granted, it was easier to tolerate when taking the DHEA. Whould it be of benefit to me to take the DHEA even if not on thyroid? I have elevated antibodies for LUPUS but Dr. W does not think I have lupus. My titer test was 1:80 Testosterone is low. Thanks, > > Hi ! Sorry to hear about your continued issues. , don't I > remember correctly that you had high cortisol?? > > Let's do this. Respond to this, but give us as detailed a breakdown > of your symptoms from when you first joined here (or before), your > treatments (how much Armour you tried and how long you were on each > amount, and any other meds you are on), your > labs.....everything....so we can reevaluate all this for you. > > And...the problems you have been having since Sept 12th---were you > on Armour at that time? How much, etc? What changed around that time? > > And what are you on now, etc? > > Janie > > > I have not written here in awhile, but having problems none the > less. > > I had been seeing Dr. Woliner for a while but had to give him up > > since he is so expensive and does not take insurance. He was the > > second doc in a row to try me on Armour. I cannot tolerate any > > thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. With that > beeing > > said, he said that my thyroid numbers are not bad and that he can > > treat me with suppliments to reduce my antibodies. Needless to say > I > > had to drop him and have not pursued that. I have been dealing > with a > > lot of anxiety problems off and on for the last month and a half. > It > > started about 9/12/04 or there abouts. I will hyperventilate have > > rapid heart rate and sometimes sweat. The last two days and nights > > have been good. Starting about 1 hour ago it started to hit me. So > I > > took an asprin thinking it might settle down an inflammed thyroid > if > > that is the problems. Last month I had 6 days solid of anxiety. > What > > suchs is waking up at 2 am and find that you are hyperventilating. > I > > really don't know what to do. I don't know if these problems are > my > > thyroid or something else. I really don't think it is a general > > anxiety attack. I feel it is chemical or hormonal. Any advice > would > > be helpful. Thanks > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Have you tried treating the adrenals as Peatfield and jeffries say? The DHEA is to support the adreanals, and you have stopped it? It is said you need adrenals support when you can't tolerate the thyroid. I had this happen when I increased my armour from 1-2 grains. I didn't know it was too big a jump, because my stupid doc didn't know either. Anyway I got on hydrocortisone and all my hyper symptoms went away. I also had high cortisol on the blood test. nne _____ From: Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 5:38 PM To: NaturalThyroidHormones Subject: Re: I NEED ADVICE Baron, I stopped all thyroid about 8/20/04. Actually, after the hyper symptoms stopped when I stopped the Armour, I never felt so relaxed in my life from about 9/2/04 to 9/12/04. After that the axiety came in hard. Also, I was on 25mgs of DHEA which I reduced last month to 12.5 mgs. I have been off the DHEA for about 1.5 months. By the way, my adrenals were all tested. My DHEA before taking DHEA was normal. THe only thing that runs high for me is my Cortisol. It is about 28 at last test with NO fluctuation with time of day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hi nne, I am assuming Dr. W was not the doc in question regarding you jump from 1 to 2grains. Maybe I should just try the DHEA again even though I am not on the armour now. > Have you tried treating the adrenals as Peatfield and jeffries say? > > The DHEA is to support the adreanals, and you have stopped it? > > It is said you need adrenals support when you can't tolerate the thyroid. I > had this happen when I increased my armour from 1-2 grains. I didn't know it > was too big a jump, because my stupid doc didn't know either. Anyway I got > on hydrocortisone and all my hyper symptoms went away. I also had high > cortisol on the blood test. > > nne > > > > _____ > > From: [mailto:garyland@y...] > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 5:38 PM > To: NaturalThyroidHormones > Subject: Re: I NEED ADVICE > > > > > Baron, > > I stopped all thyroid about 8/20/04. Actually, after the hyper > symptoms stopped when I stopped the Armour, I never felt so relaxed > in my life from about 9/2/04 to 9/12/04. After that the axiety came > in hard. Also, I was on 25mgs of DHEA which I reduced last month to > 12.5 mgs. I have been off the DHEA for about 1.5 months. > > By the way, my adrenals were all tested. My DHEA before taking DHEA > was normal. THe only thing that runs high for me is my Cortisol. It > is about 28 at last test with NO fluctuation with time of day. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 why were you taking dhea if the prior numbers were ok? Were you ever vgiven a dexamethasone suppression test? Have you had a Brain MRI? > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones >To: NaturalThyroidHormones >Subject: Re: I NEED ADVICE >Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:38:01 -0000 >By the way, my adrenals were all tested. My DHEA before taking DHEA was normal. THe only thing that runs high for me is my Cortisol. It is about 28 at last test with NO fluctuation with time of day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Yes, I had the dex test and all I was told was that it was normal and that I don't have to worry about cushings. I took DHEA on the advice of Dr. Woliner. > why were you taking dhea if the prior numbers were ok? Were you ever vgiven > a dexamethasone suppression test? Have you had a Brain MRI? > > >From: " " <garyland@y...> > >Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones > >To: NaturalThyroidHormones > >Subject: Re: I NEED ADVICE > >Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:38:01 -0000 > >By the way, my adrenals were all tested. My DHEA before taking DHEA > was normal. THe only thing that runs high for me is my Cortisol. It > is about 28 at last test with NO fluctuation with time of day. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hi , Sorry to hear you are not improving as you had wished. I also still question the adrenal issue. They serve to balance many of our physiologic responses. Although saliva tests for cortisol can tell you something...I think they can be skewed or misinterpreted too often. Personally, I know that if I was required to spit into a tube to fill it I would be anxious ABOUT doing it, beforehand, and WHILE doing it. I am just that way with any medical tests....NERVOUS!!!. I am positive it would not be representative of my normal daily fluctuations of cortisol. I am one of those people who believes clinical symptoms out-weigh lab tests. I suggest a book I found that is quite good called, Adrenal Fatigue, the 21st century stress syndrome, by L . Not only does it go into details of symptoms, but also, most importantly, it goes into lifestyle habits that can keep your adrenals exhausted in spite of any treatment. Really, dealing with adrenal fatigue is not a " meds " thing....that is only temporary....it has to include lifestyle changes. If your adrenal glands are weak, you helped to get them that way by your habits. Being hypoT will help keep them weak too. It's a deep hole to dig oneself out of, adrenal fatigue and hypoT, but if done right it can be done. Take a look at the book. See if you recognize yourself. There is far more information in that book on adrenal fatigue them I have read on any website,etc. Roxanna North Star German Shepherd Dog Rescue Inc northstargsdr@... www.northstargsdr.org I NEED ADVICE I have not written here in awhile, but having problems none the less. I had been seeing Dr. Woliner for a while but had to give him up since he is so expensive and does not take insurance. He was the second doc in a row to try me on Armour. I cannot tolerate any thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. With that beeing said, he said that my thyroid numbers are not bad and that he can treat me with suppliments to reduce my antibodies. Needless to say I had to drop him and have not pursued that. I have been dealing with a lot of anxiety problems off and on for the last month and a half. It started about 9/12/04 or there abouts. I will hyperventilate have rapid heart rate and sometimes sweat. The last two days and nights have been good. Starting about 1 hour ago it started to hit me. So I took an asprin thinking it might settle down an inflammed thyroid if that is the problems. Last month I had 6 days solid of anxiety. What suchs is waking up at 2 am and find that you are hyperventilating. I really don't know what to do. I don't know if these problems are my thyroid or something else. I really don't think it is a general anxiety attack. I feel it is chemical or hormonal. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 , It seems you are against taking hydrocortisone. What about taking pregnenolone? Use 40 mg per day. It is a precursor to cortisol, DHEA, progesterone, estrogen and testosterone. Your body will have a choice then. You could also try one of the adrenal glandulars. Tish wrote up a good schedule for their use. Listed a couple kinds that are good. I think you should take the cortical one, not the one with medulla too. Then you can avoid the adrenaline. Taking DHEA will not give your body the sort of support it needs while taking thyroid to increase your metabolism. You need enough cortisol. Roxanna North Star German Shepherd Dog Rescue Inc northstargsdr@... www.northstargsdr.org Re: I NEED ADVICE Hi Janie, On 9/12/04 I was already off the Armour. There were two times (about 3 months appart) that I have tried Armour. THe tiniest amount causes hyper symptoms. At the time that anxiety started I was beginning to take 75 mgs of Avapro for my BP. Since the doc upped it to 150mgs about a month and a half ago my anxiety has gotten worse. I don't know if that is the cause or not. I am currently trying to wean off the bp meds and go natural with suppliments. My TSH will run from 5 to 12 and every where in between over many years. Dr. WOlner an MD and holistic doc said that my free T3's and free T4's where not bad. Free t3 was last tested at 303. My free T4 in May was .9 I have never been able to take more than 1 grain of armour for about 10 days. Even 1/4 makes me sweat, fast heart, hypervent, anxious. Granted, it was easier to tolerate when taking the DHEA. Whould it be of benefit to me to take the DHEA even if not on thyroid? I have elevated antibodies for LUPUS but Dr. W does not think I have lupus. My titer test was 1:80 Testosterone is low. Thanks, > > Hi ! Sorry to hear about your continued issues. , don't I > remember correctly that you had high cortisol?? > > Let's do this. Respond to this, but give us as detailed a breakdown > of your symptoms from when you first joined here (or before), your > treatments (how much Armour you tried and how long you were on each > amount, and any other meds you are on), your > labs.....everything....so we can reevaluate all this for you. > > And...the problems you have been having since Sept 12th---were you > on Armour at that time? How much, etc? What changed around that time? > > And what are you on now, etc? > > Janie > > > I have not written here in awhile, but having problems none the > less. > > I had been seeing Dr. Woliner for a while but had to give him up > > since he is so expensive and does not take insurance. He was the > > second doc in a row to try me on Armour. I cannot tolerate any > > thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. With that > beeing > > said, he said that my thyroid numbers are not bad and that he can > > treat me with suppliments to reduce my antibodies. Needless to say > I > > had to drop him and have not pursued that. I have been dealing > with a > > lot of anxiety problems off and on for the last month and a half. > It > > started about 9/12/04 or there abouts. I will hyperventilate have > > rapid heart rate and sometimes sweat. The last two days and nights > > have been good. Starting about 1 hour ago it started to hit me. So > I > > took an asprin thinking it might settle down an inflammed thyroid > if > > that is the problems. Last month I had 6 days solid of anxiety. > What > > suchs is waking up at 2 am and find that you are hyperventilating. > I > > really don't know what to do. I don't know if these problems are > my > > thyroid or something else. I really don't think it is a general > > anxiety attack. I feel it is chemical or hormonal. Any advice > would > > be helpful. Thanks > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 In a message dated 10/22/2004 7:30:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, 420@... writes: > couldn't they just have you take a nap, then put a dish out by your > mouth to catch the drool? > that would work. cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 In a message dated 10/22/2004 9:46:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, MamaMaha@... writes: > But you know what? I'm > losing interest in even doing that anymore it's all so complicated & > so much to read & sort through or even think of retaining in the > brain or memorizing. > i did it because it was the only way I was going to get better. From the time i was diagnosed in Febuary...up until sometime in the summer - all I did was read books and internet articles and thryoid forum posts. It was confusing initially...but I stuck with it...and then it becomes easy. I felt like I didn't have a choice but to spend time on it...because I knew a doctor was never going to tell me anything worthwhile. I'm glad now I took the time. It isn't always easy...but most days are pretty good. Cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Never had the saliva done. Doc won't do it. gary > > > > Hi ! Sorry to hear about your continued issues. , don't I > > remember correctly that you had high cortisol?? > > > > Let's do this. Respond to this, but give us as detailed a breakdown > > of your symptoms from when you first joined here (or before), your > > treatments (how much Armour you tried and how long you were on each > > amount, and any other meds you are on), your > > labs.....everything....so we can reevaluate all this for you. > > > > And...the problems you have been having since Sept 12th--- were you > > on Armour at that time? How much, etc? What changed around that > time? > > > > And what are you on now, etc? > > > > Janie > > > > > I have not written here in awhile, but having problems none the > > less. > > > I had been seeing Dr. Woliner for a while but had to give him up > > > since he is so expensive and does not take insurance. He was the > > > second doc in a row to try me on Armour. I cannot tolerate any > > > thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. With that > > beeing > > > said, he said that my thyroid numbers are not bad and that he can > > > treat me with suppliments to reduce my antibodies. Needless to > say > > I > > > had to drop him and have not pursued that. I have been dealing > > with a > > > lot of anxiety problems off and on for the last month and a half. > > It > > > started about 9/12/04 or there abouts. I will hyperventilate have > > > rapid heart rate and sometimes sweat. The last two days and > nights > > > have been good. Starting about 1 hour ago it started to hit me. > So > > I > > > took an asprin thinking it might settle down an inflammed thyroid > > if > > > that is the problems. Last month I had 6 days solid of anxiety. > > What > > > suchs is waking up at 2 am and find that you are > hyperventilating. > > I > > > really don't know what to do. I don't know if these problems are > > my > > > thyroid or something else. I really don't think it is a general > > > anxiety attack. I feel it is chemical or hormonal. Any advice > > would > > > be helpful. Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 From what I understand, only the saliva tests measure that cortisol used by/available to the cells. This is what you want to know. A 24 hr test will not show whether you are up and down, high and low, at the right or wrong time. R North Star German Shepherd Dog Rescue Inc northstargsdr@... www.northstargsdr.org Re: I NEED ADVICE My first Cortisol test was 24 hour urine and 8am and 4pm blood. Both the 8am and 4pm blood cortisols were 34. The range for that is 4.0 to 22.0 in the morning and 3.0 to 17.0 at 4pm. My 24 hr urine was 1116 with the range being from 20 to 90. However, that was in May, in August my blood Cortisol was 24.6 in the morning. Only the morning was done. My DHEA blood before ever taking DHEA was 300 with the range being from 20 to 413. gary > > > > Hi ! Sorry to hear about your continued issues. , don't I > > remember correctly that you had high cortisol?? > > > > Let's do this. Respond to this, but give us as detailed a breakdown > > of your symptoms from when you first joined here (or before), your > > treatments (how much Armour you tried and how long you were on each > > amount, and any other meds you are on), your > > labs.....everything....so we can reevaluate all this for you. > > > > And...the problems you have been having since Sept 12th--- were you > > on Armour at that time? How much, etc? What changed around that > time? > > > > And what are you on now, etc? > > > > Janie > > > > > I have not written here in awhile, but having problems none the > > less. > > > I had been seeing Dr. Woliner for a while but had to give him up > > > since he is so expensive and does not take insurance. He was the > > > second doc in a row to try me on Armour. I cannot tolerate any > > > thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. With that > > beeing > > > said, he said that my thyroid numbers are not bad and that he can > > > treat me with suppliments to reduce my antibodies. Needless to > say > > I > > > had to drop him and have not pursued that. I have been dealing > > with a > > > lot of anxiety problems off and on for the last month and a half. > > It > > > started about 9/12/04 or there abouts. I will hyperventilate have > > > rapid heart rate and sometimes sweat. The last two days and > nights > > > have been good. Starting about 1 hour ago it started to hit me. > So > > I > > > took an asprin thinking it might settle down an inflammed thyroid > > if > > > that is the problems. Last month I had 6 days solid of anxiety. > > What > > > suchs is waking up at 2 am and find that you are > hyperventilating. > > I > > > really don't know what to do. I don't know if these problems are > > my > > > thyroid or something else. I really don't think it is a general > > > anxiety attack. I feel it is chemical or hormonal. Any advice > > would > > > be helpful. Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 9/12?? So how did you do or what were you experiencing during or after the 9/11 disaster? Just curious if this might have a little bit or maybe a lot to do with it. A whole lot of people started taking Rx meds for depression, anxiety, panic attacks, hyperventilating, insomnia, etc after 9/11. And not surprisingly so. Sometimes the symptoms reappear on the anniversary of such tragic events. I've been a widow for 4 years now & talked to many other widowed people, some who lost their spouses in the WTC event. They've all said that the yearly anniversaries, in every year, after the death of their loved one, has caused such symptoms to reactivate 10 fold. Whereas they do better the rest of the year except on special other dates, birthdays, holidays, etc. But this also applies to people who were greatly affected, even emotionally from a great distance who had no family member or friends die in the WTC disaster. It affected everyone in the world who knew about it adversely in fact. How could it not have? Just as an entire generation of people & their little kids were affected by the atom bomb blast at Hiroshima. Same kind of global terror & fear in that as well. And no way to run away from it either. Surely such stressful, fearful, terrorizing incidents can cause our hormones, glands & overall body-chemistry to dysfunction as all stress does to a greater or lesser degree. For one thing they tend to make the adrenals pump more adrenaline into our system to activate the " fight or flight " syndrome in oneself that is needed to help the body flee from an impending dangerous or fearful situation. But if you didn't have to flee for your life in the 9/11 WTC incident, it still could affect you anyway having seen it on tv even as most people have. Obviously if the adrenals are affected, so will the entire endocrine system being affected. Not that any anti-anxiety/ anti- depressants would cure it but they could help for a while anyway until adrenals & thyroid, etc are further tested or aided by natural supplementation. Just my two cents. Not that I can offer any advice on how to cure your symptoms except maybe an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety Rx or even counseling might help? Blessings, Caroline > I have been dealing with a > lot of anxiety problems off and on for the last month and a half. It > started about 9/12/04 or there abouts. I will hyperventilate have > rapid heart rate and sometimes sweat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 So what's the answer then? Take raw adrenal with L-tyrozine & self- medicate that way first before taking the Armour, etc? > > > I cannot tolerate any > > thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. > > this stood out to me most. maybe others will jump in and have a more> astute observation but i suspect you are suffering from low adrenal output, as treating a thyroid condition in the presence of tired adrenals without treating the adrenals first, often causes you to feel sick, and hyper symptoms are how they can manifest. > best, > baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Very Interesting Caroline.. sounds right to me. Thanks for your post. nne _____ From: carolmamaha Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 8:59 PM To: NaturalThyroidHormones Subject: Re: I NEED ADVICE 9/12?? So how did you do or what were you experiencing during or after the 9/11 disaster? Just curious if this might have a little bit or maybe a lot to do with it. A whole lot of people started taking Rx meds for depression, anxiety, panic attacks, hyperventilating, insomnia, etc after 9/11. And not surprisingly so. Sometimes the symptoms reappear on the anniversary of such tragic events. I've been a widow for 4 years now & talked to many other widowed people, some who lost their spouses in the WTC event. They've all said that the yearly anniversaries, in every year, after the death of their loved one, has caused such symptoms to reactivate 10 fold. Whereas they do better the rest of the year except on special other dates, birthdays, holidays, etc. But this also applies to people who were greatly affected, even emotionally from a great distance who had no family member or friends die in the WTC disaster. It affected everyone in the world who knew about it adversely in fact. How could it not have? Just as an entire generation of people & their little kids were affected by the atom bomb blast at Hiroshima. Same kind of global terror & fear in that as well. And no way to run away from it either. Surely such stressful, fearful, terrorizing incidents can cause our hormones, glands & overall body-chemistry to dysfunction as all stress does to a greater or lesser degree. For one thing they tend to make the adrenals pump more adrenaline into our system to activate the " fight or flight " syndrome in oneself that is needed to help the body flee from an impending dangerous or fearful situation. But if you didn't have to flee for your life in the 9/11 WTC incident, it still could affect you anyway having seen it on tv even as most people have. Obviously if the adrenals are affected, so will the entire endocrine system being affected. Not that any anti-anxiety/ anti- depressants would cure it but they could help for a while anyway until adrenals & thyroid, etc are further tested or aided by natural supplementation. Just my two cents. Not that I can offer any advice on how to cure your symptoms except maybe an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety Rx or even counseling might help? Blessings, Caroline > I have been dealing with a > lot of anxiety problems off and on for the last month and a half. It > started about 9/12/04 or there abouts. I will hyperventilate have > rapid heart rate and sometimes sweat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Geez Louise....How on earth did just living & breathing normally ever get to be so darned complicated, confusing & overwhelming for Pete's sake???? After reading this thread & some others, a person has have a medical degree, or at least a medical dictionary or reference book(s) & go through that expense. Then learn anatomy up, down & sidewise, be a lab wizard & have read every book or online/offline supposedly " expert " doctor or other wholistic practioner on these related subjects. More expense, more time & energy consumed. Very stressful!!! How to get all that knowledge so it's useable when we're having brain fog, lethargy & apathy from depression & chronic pain on top it all is beyond me. Let alone remember it all. It beats the heck outta me, that's fer shure. The more I read the more lost & confused I get & the more hopeless it all sounds if we're to spend so much time, money & energy on all this. Who the hell has the time, energy or inclination for all that plus experimenting, often wasting precious money in the process? With different things to ingest, special diets to follow & memorize all the reasons why for each specific food, or all the other things involved???? Let alone read all the books recommended???? Not to mention having the time, money or energy to hunt down all this stuff, buy it, keep charts, graphs, take daily temperatures & pulse & on & on. And then keep searching for doctors reasonably nearby who know how or are willing to experimentally treat us while going thru all that insurance & other paperwork including forwarding & releasing medical records from one doctor to another? Sounds absolutely exhausting & expensive to me. It's enough to make a person give up before getting started at all. I've got a huge backlog of these emails I've been saving to sort through & compile, then print for a binder. But you know what? I'm losing interest in even doing that anymore it's all so complicated & so much to read & sort through or even think of retaining in the brain or memorizing. I'm spending hours & hours a day just reading this list & other health newsletters & other groups online. Who's got the time or inclination to compile it all & print it or organize it into a binder or other files? Heck...just reading it all is exhausting enough. And I'm retired. How on earth does a person with a family & a full time job do it all without getting sicker, more overstressed or croaking from just this kind of educational & experimental stress? Especially with all the controversial statements & advice ongoing & completely changing one's lifestyle to boot, even putting one's marriage in danger in the process? Also taking the thyroid, adrenal or other supplements can be dangerous it sounds like. What with elevated pulse, rapid or erractic heart beats, raised temperatures, sweats or fluctuations up & down in rapid succession with all of those as self-experimenation continues. Hell it's way easier to take pain killers & take one's chances of dying sooner rather than later. I mean if you have to increase your Rx pain meds over time, that alone will kill ya sooner or later. And who can live without them the older we get & the more pain we have? I sure can't so far no matter how hard I've tried. Sheesh...sometimes I envy my 92yo mother in a wheel chair in a nursing home where she's fully taken care of & hasn't a worry in the world, let alone much cognitive or physical abilities anymore. She sings a lot & cracks corny, nonsensical jokes. What could be a better way to live & be as happy as that? Oh well......sighhhhhhhhhhhhhh...it's way over my head already & the more I read the more complicated & time consuming & monetarily expensive it appears to become. How did just living become so difficult? I doubt it was ever meant to be this way from humanity's Day One on this planet. Something's very wrong with this picture. Stop the planet....I want to get off!!!!! Caroline > , It seems you are against taking hydrocortisone. What about taking pregnenolone? Use 40 mg per day. It is a precursor to cortisol, DHEA, progesterone, estrogen and testosterone. Your body will have a choice then. > > You could also try one of the adrenal glandulars. Tish wrote up a good schedule for their use. Listed a couple kinds that are good. I think you should take the cortical one, not the one with medulla too. Then you can avoid the adrenaline. > > Taking DHEA will not give your body the sort of support it needs while taking thyroid to increase your metabolism. You need enough cortisol. > > Roxanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Hi , What was the lowest dosage of Armour that you were on? If it makes you feel any better, I am having the same problems with increasing as well. I truly believe that I have been battling Hashi's for so long that my body is totally resistant to change. I am at least on 1 1/2grains, but my last labs were pretty pitiful, and I am praying that this round i will be able to tolerate at least a 1/4 grain increase. As far as the hyperventilating thing at night, I have had this before diagnosis and treatment. I have woken up clutching my throat and gasping for air - very scary! Is this what you are talking about? I feel for you because I know how frustrating this all can be. You want to get better and reduce the chances of getting serious illness from thyroid disease, but you just can't get close to optimal. Anyway, I just wanted to say that you are not alone. I don't really know why some of us have this much trouble. > > I have not written here in awhile, but having problems none the less. > I had been seeing Dr. Woliner for a while but had to give him up > since he is so expensive and does not take insurance. He was the > second doc in a row to try me on Armour. I cannot tolerate any > thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. With that beeing > said, he said that my thyroid numbers are not bad and that he can > treat me with suppliments to reduce my antibodies. Needless to say I > had to drop him and have not pursued that. I have been dealing with a > lot of anxiety problems off and on for the last month and a half. It > started about 9/12/04 or there abouts. I will hyperventilate have > rapid heart rate and sometimes sweat. The last two days and nights > have been good. Starting about 1 hour ago it started to hit me. So I > took an asprin thinking it might settle down an inflammed thyroid if > that is the problems. Last month I had 6 days solid of anxiety. What > suchs is waking up at 2 am and find that you are hyperventilating. I > really don't know what to do. I don't know if these problems are my > thyroid or something else. I really don't think it is a general > anxiety attack. I feel it is chemical or hormonal. Any advice would > be helpful. Thanks > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 , I started on 1/4 grain and had problems. Then I took DHEA and was about to work my way up to 1grain but developed hyper like problems. I have been off all thyroid for about 1 1/2 months or more. The breathing thing and it can happen during the day, is like I can't get enough air and my heart will be about 105 bpm. It could also be my bp med. I am on Avapro. I am overweight and 54. However, I ride my bike about 4 miles every day and I don't get out of breath while doing it. > > Hi , > > What was the lowest dosage of Armour that you were on? > > If it makes you feel any better, I am having the same problems with > increasing as well. I truly believe that I have been battling Hashi's > for so long that my body is totally resistant to change. I am at least > on 1 1/2grains, but my last labs were pretty pitiful, and I am praying > that this round i will be able to tolerate at least a 1/4 grain increase. > > As far as the hyperventilating thing at night, I have had this before > diagnosis and treatment. I have woken up clutching my throat and > gasping for air - very scary! Is this what you are talking about? > > I feel for you because I know how frustrating this all can be. You > want to get better and reduce the chances of getting serious illness > from thyroid disease, but you just can't get close to optimal. Anyway, > I just wanted to say that you are not alone. I don't really know why > some of us have this much trouble. > > > > > > I have not written here in awhile, but having problems none the less. > > I had been seeing Dr. Woliner for a while but had to give him up > > since he is so expensive and does not take insurance. He was the > > second doc in a row to try me on Armour. I cannot tolerate any > > thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. With that beeing > > said, he said that my thyroid numbers are not bad and that he can > > treat me with suppliments to reduce my antibodies. Needless to say I > > had to drop him and have not pursued that. I have been dealing with a > > lot of anxiety problems off and on for the last month and a half. It > > started about 9/12/04 or there abouts. I will hyperventilate have > > rapid heart rate and sometimes sweat. The last two days and nights > > have been good. Starting about 1 hour ago it started to hit me. So I > > took an asprin thinking it might settle down an inflammed thyroid if > > that is the problems. Last month I had 6 days solid of anxiety. What > > suchs is waking up at 2 am and find that you are hyperventilating. I > > really don't know what to do. I don't know if these problems are my > > thyroid or something else. I really don't think it is a general > > anxiety attack. I feel it is chemical or hormonal. Any advice would > > be helpful. Thanks > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Yes, , I had that too. Breathlessness from my heart rate being too high and being hyper. Sounds like you increased too quickly perhaps? Maybe you and I need to go very slow with tiny increments. I worry about you. SOunds like the thyroid problem is already causing issues with you. I wish you the best. > > , > > I started on 1/4 grain and had problems. Then I took DHEA and was > about to work my way up to 1grain but developed hyper like problems. > I have been off all thyroid for about 1 1/2 months or more. The > breathing thing and it can happen during the day, is like I can't get > enough air and my heart will be about 105 bpm. It could also be my bp > med. I am on Avapro. I am overweight and 54. However, I ride my bike > about 4 miles every day and I don't get out of breath while doing it. > > > > > > > > Hi , > > > > What was the lowest dosage of Armour that you were on? > > > > If it makes you feel any better, I am having the same problems with > > increasing as well. I truly believe that I have been battling > Hashi's > > for so long that my body is totally resistant to change. I am at > least > > on 1 1/2grains, but my last labs were pretty pitiful, and I am > praying > > that this round i will be able to tolerate at least a 1/4 grain > increase. > > > > As far as the hyperventilating thing at night, I have had this > before > > diagnosis and treatment. I have woken up clutching my throat and > > gasping for air - very scary! Is this what you are talking about? > > > > I feel for you because I know how frustrating this all can be. You > > want to get better and reduce the chances of getting serious illness > > from thyroid disease, but you just can't get close to optimal. > Anyway, > > I just wanted to say that you are not alone. I don't really know why > > some of us have this much trouble. > > > > > > > > > > I have not written here in awhile, but having problems none the > less. > > > I had been seeing Dr. Woliner for a while but had to give him up > > > since he is so expensive and does not take insurance. He was the > > > second doc in a row to try me on Armour. I cannot tolerate any > > > thyroid replacement without having hyper symptoms. With that > beeing > > > said, he said that my thyroid numbers are not bad and that he can > > > treat me with suppliments to reduce my antibodies. Needless to > say I > > > had to drop him and have not pursued that. I have been dealing > with a > > > lot of anxiety problems off and on for the last month and a half. > It > > > started about 9/12/04 or there abouts. I will hyperventilate have > > > rapid heart rate and sometimes sweat. The last two days and > nights > > > have been good. Starting about 1 hour ago it started to hit me. > So I > > > took an asprin thinking it might settle down an inflammed thyroid > if > > > that is the problems. Last month I had 6 days solid of anxiety. > What > > > suchs is waking up at 2 am and find that you are > hyperventilating. I > > > really don't know what to do. I don't know if these problems are > my > > > thyroid or something else. I really don't think it is a general > > > anxiety attack. I feel it is chemical or hormonal. Any advice > would > > > be helpful. Thanks > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 In a message dated 10/24/2004 9:10:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, marin@... writes: > The other part of the adrenal glands puts out substances that can cause > panic and anxiety, not the cortex----oh heck, what's the other part called, > duhhh? medulla? cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 In a message dated 10/24/2004 9:10:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, marin@... writes: > > The other part of the adrenal glands puts out substances that can cause > panic and anxiety, not the cortex----oh heck, what's the other part called, > duhhh? Anyway, norepinephrine and epinephrine and such things as that. > > now that you're mentioning this...i'm wondering about my PKD (polycystic kidney disease) folks like my daughter who have anxiety. In PKD the kidneys get enlarged...and we know the adrenals sit right there on top of them...and i'm sure it affects them. Hmmm.... cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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