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Hi, you may remember me posting about m overactive ledown problem.

Thanx for all the replys. Now I have a real major problem and I'm

confused :(

Hannah has been screaming for about 2wks straight now, sometimes mylicon

works...others it doesn't. She hasn't been taking naps during the day

and I noticed blood specks in her stool. Well, I called the pedi. this

morning and I brought her in today. Dr said that it sounds like she not

only has colic but also might have reflux because she spits up whole

bunches of milk after. Actually it like pours out :( This is the

really bad part, he wants me to express milk and give her bottles with

cereal all the time!!!! I don't want to take her off of me!!! I know

that I can't possably produce the same amount of milk with a pump as she

can and my milk supply will eventually go away. And then I will have to

give her formula. I don't know what to do but cry, all I've done since

we got home. It's crappy because I ave enough milk to feed an army :(

Should I try a bottle in the morning and at night and still feed her on

the breast the rest of the time, or just listen to the dr???

Oh, she only gained 7oz since the 28th.

Thanx,

Crystal and Hannah

7wks old

http://community.webtv.net/crystaldaso/HannahMariehas

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Crystal,

I have been lurking for a while since it has been busy here but had to delurk

to address

this. My daughter also has reflux. She had alot of problems gaining weight.She

too would

scream like she had colic and spit up milk half way accross the room. I

normally dont like

to give my kids medicenes but the doctor gave me zantac and cisapride to give to

her for

the reflux and it made a world of difference. She started gaining weight, was

pleasant and

no spit up. My doctor never said anything about a bottle and cereal. In fact I

would be

worried too about giving her the bottle and jepordizing milk supply. I would

wonder if

cereal would even make a difference because without her medicenes Abby spits up

food also.

Just my two cents.

a

mom to 10, 7. Zach 2 and Abby 9mos

Crystal Daso wrote:

> From: crystaldaso@... (Crystal Daso)

>

> Hi, you may remember me posting about m overactive ledown problem.

> Thanx for all the replys. Now I have a real major problem and I'm

> confused :(

> Hannah has been screaming for about 2wks straight now, sometimes mylicon

> works...others it doesn't. She hasn't been taking naps during the day

> and I noticed blood specks in her stool. Well, I called the pedi. this

> morning and I brought her in today. Dr said that it sounds like she not

> only has colic but also might have reflux because she spits up whole

> bunches of milk after. Actually it like pours out :( This is the

> really bad part, he wants me to express milk and give her bottles with

> cereal all the time!!!! I don't want to take her off of me!!! I know

> that I can't possably produce the same amount of milk with a pump as she

> can and my milk supply will eventually go away. And then I will have to

> give her formula. I don't know what to do but cry, all I've done since

> we got home. It's crappy because I ave enough milk to feed an army :(

> Should I try a bottle in the morning and at night and still feed her on

> the breast the rest of the time, or just listen to the dr???

> Oh, she only gained 7oz since the 28th.

> Thanx,

> Crystal and Hannah

> 7wks old

>

> http://community.webtv.net/crystaldaso/HannahMariehas

>

> ---------------------------

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Crystal,

My advice, although not a medical opinion, is that bottles make reflux

worse. They drink more air which causes more reflux. It sounds like a

milk allergy that we have been discussing here. Have you tried removing

all dairy from your diet. Cereal also doesn't really help reflux in small

babies. Cereal can be even more distressing to an immature bowel. The

best thing you could do is eliminate ALL sources of dairy in your diet and

see what that does.

Wendi

HELP!!!!!

From: crystaldaso@... (Crystal Daso)

Hi, you may remember me posting about m overactive ledown problem.

Thanx for all the replys. Now I have a real major problem and I'm

confused :(

Hannah has been screaming for about 2wks straight now, sometimes mylicon

works...others it doesn't. She hasn't been taking naps during the day

and I noticed blood specks in her stool. Well, I called the pedi. this

morning and I brought her in today. Dr said that it sounds like she not

only has colic but also might have reflux because she spits up whole

bunches of milk after. Actually it like pours out :( This is the

really bad part, he wants me to express milk and give her bottles with

cereal all the time!!!! I don't want to take her off of me!!! I know

that I can't possably produce the same amount of milk with a pump as she

can and my milk supply will eventually go away. And then I will have to

give her formula. I don't know what to do but cry, all I've done since

we got home. It's crappy because I ave enough milk to feed an army :(

Should I try a bottle in the morning and at night and still feed her on

the breast the rest of the time, or just listen to the dr???

Oh, she only gained 7oz since the 28th.

Thanx,

Crystal and Hannah

7wks old

http://community.webtv.net/crystaldaso/HannahMariehas

---------------------------

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Crystal,

My oldest son had GE reflux fairly severly. Due to many medical issues, he

was not breast fed. I did pump for 6 months for him and he also got formula

since my supply was horrid. I don't think this drastic idea is necessary

right away. Did the dr put her on any meds? Usually reglan and another med

that escapes me right now are given to reduce the reflux. Did your ped. have

you refered to a pediatric gastroenterologist? Sounds like this may help

too. There may be something else to thicken the ebm with if you choose to

give some bottles. I would suggest sitting her upright (as much as possible)

after feeding her. You may also want to incline the place where she sleeps

or even have her sleep in a bouncy seat if she naps again. She may nap once

this gets under control. Reflux can be uncomfortable...like a bad heart

burn. Hang in there. You still have options to consider! Oh, are they

going to do a Ph probe on her? If you have any questions, please feel free

to e mail me privately or on the list!

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i would find a second opinion...cereal that young would compound the problem

i would think. Please get another doc to look her over...or better yet a

chiropractor.

At 08:20 PM 7/12/99 -0400, you wrote:

>From: crystaldaso@... (Crystal Daso)

>

>Hi, you may remember me posting about m overactive ledown problem.

>Thanx for all the replys. Now I have a real major problem and I'm

>confused :(

>Hannah has been screaming for about 2wks straight now, sometimes mylicon

>works...others it doesn't. She hasn't been taking naps during the day

>and I noticed blood specks in her stool. Well, I called the pedi. this

>morning and I brought her in today. Dr said that it sounds like she not

>only has colic but also might have reflux because she spits up whole

>bunches of milk after. Actually it like pours out :( This is the

>really bad part, he wants me to express milk and give her bottles with

>cereal all the time!!!! I don't want to take her off of me!!! I know

>that I can't possably produce the same amount of milk with a pump as she

>can and my milk supply will eventually go away. And then I will have to

>give her formula. I don't know what to do but cry, all I've done since

>we got home. It's crappy because I ave enough milk to feed an army :(

>Should I try a bottle in the morning and at night and still feed her on

>the breast the rest of the time, or just listen to the dr???

>Oh, she only gained 7oz since the 28th.

>Thanx,

>Crystal and Hannah

>7wks old

*****************************************************

- Proud mommy of Gilbert Cory Valdez (01-10-99)

Visit us: http://members.home.net/gtvaldez/

Imagination Station Registered Family Home Childcare

*****************************************************

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Hello...I would consider getting a second opinion. My best friends baby has

the reflux problem and with Zantac she happily nurses. At 9 months she is

just now starting to eat a little bit of solids as they have always made her

vomit before.

Kari

HELP!!!!!

From: crystaldaso@... (Crystal Daso)

Hi, you may remember me posting about m overactive ledown problem.

Thanx for all the replys. Now I have a real major problem and I'm

confused

Hannah has been screaming for about 2wks straight now, sometimes mylicon

works...others it doesn't. She hasn't been taking naps during the day

and I noticed blood specks in her stool. Well, I called the pedi. this

morning and I brought her in today. Dr said that it sounds like she not

only has colic but also might have reflux because she spits up whole

bunches of milk after. Actually it like pours out :( This is the

really bad part, he wants me to express milk and give her bottles with

cereal all the time!!!! I don't want to take her off of me!!! I know

that I can't possably produce the same amount of milk with a pump as she

can and my milk supply will eventually go away. And then I will have to

give her formula. I don't know what to do but cry, all I've done since

we got home. It's crappy because I ave enough milk to feed an army :(

Should I try a bottle in the morning and at night and still feed her on

the breast the rest of the time, or just listen to the dr???

Oh, she only gained 7oz since the 28th.

Thanx,

Crystal and Hannah

7wks old

http://community.webtv.net/crystaldaso/HannahMariehas

---------------------------

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> Should I try a bottle in the morning and at night and still feed her on

> the breast the rest of the time, or just listen to the dr???

> Oh, she only gained 7oz since the 28th.

There's a really good article on reflux at LLLI's site. It covers the

advantages of breastfeeding to both the baby and the mom/family. If you

can't find it, let me know and I will paste the URL in.

I would find any other doctor who respected breastfeeding enough to not

dump it at the first sign of trouble, but that's just me personally.

Seeing red specks of blood in the diaper isn't typically a stomach

problem, but usually something else. Another mom on this list

discovered red blood specks in her baby's diaper, and she and her doctor

are trying to determine first if it's an allergy to cow's milk protein

in her breastmilk that's causing the problems. If this is what's causing

Hannah's problem, putting him on cow's milk formula or cereal mixed with

cow's milk formula is NOT going to be helpful!

As for the milk she's spitting up, pour some milk onto a towel or cloth

diaper and see how much it looks like. A half an ounce spilled onto a

flat surface looks like " gallons. " Most babies are thought to consume

about 2.5-3 ounces per feeding. If she's spitting up that much, then

you certainly should look into what's causing it. If it's a half ounce

or less, it might just be a temporary laundry problem. One of the signs

of overactive letdown is a baby with an air bubble trapped in her

stomach from gulping air with breastmilk to keep up with the fast flow.

If you could sit her upright and burp her after your letdown to get the

bubble(s) out, you might solve the problem. :)

Hannah's gaining 7 ounces in two weeks isn't necessarily a " red flag "

either. Most babies gain about 8 ounces per week in the first 6 weeks,

and then begin to taper off some as they establish better nursing

patters, and your supply levels off. Watch her diapers to see how much

she's getting. She should have about 5-6 wet cloth diapers (6-8

disposable) and 3-4 dirty diapers every 24 hours. Chart them for a few

days if it helps. (If you need a chart, holler!)

One of the best things you might do for your nursing relationship is to

call a LLL Leader close to you and discuss options over the phone. You

can also make an appointment with a board certified Lactation Consultant

who can also give you options, plus let you know what to expect from any

prescriptions your doctor may ask you to use.

Most of all, remember that your baby can't say how she feels, or what

her wishes are, and it's up to you to read what she's trying to say. If

giving her medication or cereal is what you think she needs, then listen

to that instinct. If it's not, and by your post, it sounds like it

isn't your instinct, then listen to that and try to learn what else may

be going on.

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> I can't have milk, cheese, ice cream, butter, yogurt, or

> anything with casein or whey. I can't even have soy

> milk! Waaaaaaahhhhhhhh! No pizza, creamy salad dressings, etc... Plus all

> the cakes and cookies and other foods that are made with milk. You get the

> idea.

why can't you have yogurt? It's not a typical offender for cow's milk

proteins! My next suggestion is that you start looking for

alternatives. :) Tofu, no matter what you've heard about it, is a fair

contender for a cow's milk alternative! You can use it to make some of

the things you listed here. Also, there is a goat's milk cheese that

you might be able to use. And... you can use *your* milk, if you're

lucky enough to have some expressed, in cooking, or making butter, or

salad dressing.... lol Don't knock it till you've tried it! And if

you're eliminating desserts and breads made with cow's milk, try making

your own using your milk... Breast milk is NOT a dairy item!!

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How do you make butter with EBM? Love to try it.

----Original Message Follows----

And... you can use *your* milk, if you're

lucky enough to have some expressed, in cooking, or making butter, or

salad dressing.... lol Don't knock it till you've tried it! And if

you're eliminating desserts and breads made with cow's milk, try making

your own using your milk... Breast milk is NOT a dairy item!!

---------------------------

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> How do you make butter with EBM? Love to try it.

Same as you would with cow's milk. :) Skim off the cream and pour it

into a jar with a lid. Shake it for about 10 minutes. Pass it around

to the kids for some help with the shaking. Setting a timer usually adds

to the fun, and have them see who can shake it the most before the timer

goes off. >:) Pour off the liquid that has separated from the cream,

which should now be starting to look like pudding. Replace the lid and

shake a little more, and pour off any remaining liquid. You should have

something the consistency of softened butter. Press it into some sort

of mold and refrigerate.

This also makes an excellent spread for babies who are just starting

solids! It packs in the nutrition into the day's meals as well.

This butter, made from expressed milk, has no salt in it, and will have

a sweeter taste than store-bought butter.

You can mix it with honey (if your baby is over one, itX-MoziX-Mozilla-Status:

8018 or with garlic for a spread, or with peppers for baking. Or

whatever you like using butter with!

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> How do you make butter with EBM? Love to try it.

Same as you would with cow's milk. :) Skim off the cream and pour it

into a jar with a lid. Shake it for about 10 minutes. Pass it around

to the kids for some help with the shaking. Setting a timer usually adds

to the fun, and have them see who can shake it the most before the timer

goes off. >:) Pour off the liquid that has separated from the cream,

which should now be starting to look like pudding. Replace the lid and

shake a little more, and pour off any remaining liquid. You should have

something the consistency of softened butter. Press it into some sort

of mold and refrigerate.

This also makes an excellent spread for babies who are just starting

solids! It packs in the nutrition into the day's meals as well.

This butter, made from expressed milk, has no salt in it, and will have

a sweeter taste than store-bought butter.

You can mix it with honey (if your baby is over one, it's ok for them to

eat, too) or with garlic for a spread, or with peppers for baking. Or

whatever you like using butter with!

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> How do you make butter with EBM? Love to try it.

Same as you would with cow's milk. :) Skim off the cream and pour it

into a jar with a lid. Shake it for about 10 minutes. Pass it around

to the kids for some help with the shaking. Setting a timer usually adds

to the fun, and have them see who can shake it the most before the timer

goes off. >:) Pour off the liquid that has separated from the cream,

which should now be starting to look like pudding. Replace the lid and

shake a little more, and pour off any remaining liquid. You should have

something the consistency of softened butter. Press it into some sort

of mold and refrigerate.

This also makes an excellent spread for babies who are just starting

solids! It packs in the nutrition into the day's meals as well.

This butter, made from expressed milk, has no salt in it, and will have

a sweeter taste than store-bought butter.

You can mix it with honey (if your baby is over one, itX-Mozilla-Status: 8018,

too) or with garlic for a spread, or with peppers for baking. Or

whatever you like using butter with!

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> Sherry~If it's anything like making regular butter, I guess you would

> just shake it til it hardens, then pour off the liquid. I would think

> that you may not have enough fat, unless you got all hindmilk :o)

It would take lots of hindmilk to make a pound of butter (4 sticks) but

if you have lots of milk stored, or can pump after nursing, you can

collect more cream. I've only used my own butter with the kids' meals...

and the one taste to see if it was worth sharing! lol

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> Sherry~If it's anything like making regular butter, I guess you would

> just shake it til it hardens, then pour off the liquid. I would think

> that you may not have enough fat, unless you got all hindmilk :o)

It would take lots of hindmilk to make a pound of butter (4 sticks) but

if you have lots of milk stored, or can pX-Mozilla-Status: 8008 can

collect more cream. I've only used my own butter with the kids' meals...

and the one taste to see if it was worth sharing! lol

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> Sherry~If it's anything like making regular butter, I guess you would

> just shake it til it hardens, then pour off the liquid. I would think

> that you may not have enough fat, unless you got all hindmilk :o)

It would take lots of hindmilk to make a pound of butter (4 sticks) but

if you have lots of milk stored, or can pX-MoziX-Mozilla-Status: 8008collect

more cream. I've only used my own butter with the kids' meals...

and the one taste to see if it was worth sharing! lol

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When my kids would make butter for thanksgiving in kindergarten, they also

put a wooden block in the jar that they shook, like one of those little 2in.

sqare block - I don't know why though lol. Joan

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In a message dated 7/16/99 2:59:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

naturebaby@... writes:

<< We had what's called a blessing way for her. ( I had one too) It is

traditionally a native american ceremony but we apapted it. We did a lot

of different things. It was all women like a baby shower, but no games and

no gifts. We gave her our wishes for her baby and made butter and we

linked all of us together with string and then each person cut their's and

tied it to their wrist and left it on in support of her birth. We all took

them off after the baby was born. At mine we made a belly mask of my

pregnant belly. It was very gratifying to be honored that way by all my

women friends. >>

That sounds wonderful!!! I wish I had that, but I've had my last baby, so

maybe I'll have to do that for my pregnant-to-be friends.

jennifer

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We made butter at a friends birth ceremony and we just took a jar and

filled it half full with milk and put the lid on tight and took turns

shaking it until there was a big clump of butter in the middle.

Wendi

Re: HELP!!!!!

From: MJplus5@...

When my kids would make butter for thanksgiving in kindergarten, they also

put a wooden block in the jar that they shook, like one of those little

2in.

sqare block - I don't know why though lol. Joan

---------------------------

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,

We had what's called a blessing way for her. ( I had one too) It is

traditionally a native american ceremony but we apapted it. We did a lot

of different things. It was all women like a baby shower, but no games and

no gifts. We gave her our wishes for her baby and made butter and we

linked all of us together with string and then each person cut their's and

tied it to their wrist and left it on in support of her birth. We all took

them off after the baby was born. At mine we made a belly mask of my

pregnant belly. It was very gratifying to be honored that way by all my

women friends.

Wendi

Re: HELP!!!!!

From: NFLI4U@...

In a message dated 7/16/99 2:53:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

naturebaby@... writes:

<< birth ceremony >>

What's that? It sounds interesting!!

---------------------------

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,

I certainly appreciated the effort my friends put into it. If you want more

info you can email me off list.

Wendi

Re: HELP!!!!!

From: NFLI4U@...

That sounds wonderful!!! I wish I had that, but I've had my last baby, so

maybe I'll have to do that for my pregnant-to-be friends.

jennifer

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