Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/21/2004 1:03:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

nc2406@... writes:

> I had sent Dr. Claiborn of BDD fame (respected psychologist/written books)

> lots and lots of info on low thyroid and psychiatric conditions...and I got

> in

> lots of trouble on the BDD Central forum when i vehemently disagreed with

> him

> when he said low thyroid only caused depression.

>

Let me also just add to this that this psychologist treats anxiety and panic

disorders (which is basically what BDD revolves around)...and when I asked him

if a patient presented to him with depression and anxiety and obsessions

(which could be caused by low thyroid)...would he first have their thyroid

function tested before treating them (he does CBT therapy). He said NO...that

it

was up to their GPs to offer that testing.

So okay...I may have told him he was negligent and doing a disservice to his

patients by not at least having this checked....but gosh...what do we do with

psychologists who do not acknowledge these problems can be caused by a low

thyroid condition? I think I may have told him his pocketbook was influencing

his statements.

I truly believe that we're fighting a losing battle sometimes...

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/21/2004 2:02:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

starz@... writes:

> ahahahahaha. Tell him how you really feel Cindi! You prolly hit the

> nail right on the head!

>

I have found that since sliding into hypo and even after starting

Armour...that I often need a muzzle. can anyone relate?

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/21/2004 2:21:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,

starz@... writes:

>

>

> yes! I need a muzzle also! lol.

>

what is the phenomenom from? hypo brain or nervous system damage? or just

having had enough of inaccurate information for too many years?

cindi

[Guest guest]

ahahahahaha. Tell him how you really feel Cindi! You prolly hit the

nail right on the head!

In this day and time, the old type of Dr's who treated entire family's

and learned about different things would run further testing.

However, in this guy's case, he's only got one objective, and that is

if you stay sick, with whatever he handles, then you have to see him,

or his equal in knowledge.

I've found since I got sick, people who specialize in different areas,

Endo's specifically don't want to be bothered with a lot of things

they're faced with. A normal dr doesn't have a clue, so the referral

process begins! It's then years or many months later before anybody

even remotely figures out that what they originally thought as the

diagnosis was the farthest thing from the situation. So much for

specialty medical treatments is my thoughts. I have to wonder how many

people actually give up searching for a cause of their problems when

they are sent from one, to another, and on and on......maybe that's

why there are so many undiagnosed people in the world today? I'd say

it's a big possibility. Between ignorance and living in the atomic

age, I'd say it makes sense that we've got so many hypoT people

walking around undiagnosed and untreated.

I have a feeling about fibro and CFS that tells me that a lot of

things are being overlooked, by way of diagnosing. I firmly believe

that had I not started self medicating, I'd have ended up with a

fibro/CFS/Depression diagnosis, eventually. And last but not least, A

dr who is not willing, regardless of what his title represents is a

real pain in the A#$, but we all know that! I applaud you for telling

him your thoughts! I think that's awesome! :-)

SandyE~Houston

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:46:03 EDT

nc2406@... wrote:

> In a message dated 10/21/2004 1:03:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> nc2406@... writes:

>

> > I had sent Dr. Claiborn of BDD fame (respected

>psychologist/written books)

> > lots and lots of info on low thyroid and psychiatric

>conditions...and I got

> > in

> > lots of trouble on the BDD Central forum when i vehemently

>disagreed with

> > him

> > when he said low thyroid only caused depression.

> >

>

> Let me also just add to this that this psychologist treats anxiety

>and panic

> disorders (which is basically what BDD revolves around)...and when I

>asked him

> if a patient presented to him with depression and anxiety and

>obsessions

> (which could be caused by low thyroid)...would he first have their

>thyroid

> function tested before treating them (he does CBT therapy). He said

>NO...that it

> was up to their GPs to offer that testing.

>

> So okay...I may have told him he was negligent and doing a

>disservice to his

> patients by not at least having this checked....but gosh...what do

>we do with

> psychologists who do not acknowledge these problems can be caused by

>a low

> thyroid condition? I think I may have told him his pocketbook was

>influencing

> his statements.

>

> I truly believe that we're fighting a losing battle sometimes...

> Cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes! I need a muzzle also! lol.

SandyE~Houston

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:07:15 EDT

nc2406@... wrote:

> In a message dated 10/21/2004 2:02:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> starz@... writes:

>

> > ahahahahaha. Tell him how you really feel Cindi! You prolly hit

>the

> > nail right on the head!

> >

>

> I have found that since sliding into hypo and even after starting

> Armour...that I often need a muzzle. can anyone relate?

> Cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

certainly!

Lynda (in the UK)

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

I have found that since sliding into hypo and even after starting

Armour...that I often need a muzzle. can anyone relate?

Cindi

[Guest guest]

That's what happened to me in the beginning. One doctor tested TSH, when I

was so nervous and skinny, but nothing else. The pituitary wasn't budging,

the thyroid was running too fast all by itself! What is it about all this

that doesn't make sense to trained medical professionals. The thyroid can

be run away, by itself, and the pituitary can be sluggish, or, another

scenario is that the pituitary can be very sensitive, while the thyroid

isn't doing anything, or maybe it IS, but the body can't process the hormone

properly, due to antibodies or other chemical abnormalities. This is why

the TSH just can't be a sure bet, and even the level of thyroid hormones, in

some cases. It's so obvious, once you read for a few minutes! Even a child

could understand it! And all those drugs given to a child, when it just

wasn't necessary to do so.

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> In a message dated 10/22/2004 4:19:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> marin@... writes:

>

> > A 7 something TSH normal??????? You've got to

> > be kidding. It's getting lonely here in the medical world.

> >

>

> actually...when it was checked by the psychiatrist (after dosing the poor

boy

> with psychotropic drugs) it was 3.7....and the psychiatrist had said that

was

> normal. And get this...but the psych put him on a little teeny bit of

> Synthroid because that might be why he was fatigued. This was TWO years

ago. It's

> never been checked again.

>

> When I had saw she posted about her son taking Synthroid...I started

asking

> questions..and she got her son to Dr. Langer then.

> In that two year time, he's been taking all the psychotropic drugs...while

> his TSH went up.

>

> And actually...I'm seeing where with primarily psychiatric symptoms, that

TSH

> just doesn't go up very high even though the hormone levels drop. This is

a

> problem with folks getting diagnosed with mental disorders instead of

thyroid

> disorder I think.

> cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 9:17:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

marianne@... writes:

> WoW, that is unbelievable, You are just trying to help people. It isn't

> like

> you are selling armour or anything.

>

>

>

> I have found many people are not interested in getting better. Their

> identity is how much misery they are in, it seems. If they got the well,

> they would loose themselves.

>

Yes...you hit on it exactly. I had told my husband about all this...and

that's what I told him " people get a vested interested in remaining sick " and a

thyroid disorder is not as sexy as having some quirky mental disorder.

And yes, I really was just trying to help people. Everyone in the US on that

forum that has been tested has been diagnosed hypo. And the amount of folks

that have autoimmune illness, including thyroid, in their family is amazing.

It's interesting to me that when a forum member discovers a definitive link

to the disorder, that it is censored.

I start thinking " conspiracy " theories all over again...because it seems when

" low thyroid " comes up...no professional wants to admit that it's the

problem.

Anyway....I sure thank you folks for being here. And I can say " thyroid " all

day long here.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 9:49:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,

MamaMaha@... writes:

>

> 'Course ya can't lash back when they've cut you off, can you?

> But then that's their " agenda " , isn't it? No further discussion, no

> talking it over for resolution, just isolate & restrict the person.

> Gee, I thought this was a free country?

I could write the administrator of the forum...and I did. She has two

moderators and it is one of those moderators who is all bent out of shape.

Probably

because I kept asking her to call and find out what her Free T3 lab actually

was...and not to just accept " normal " .

But actually, when a forum has an agenda of " don't disagree with the

professional that is visiting " and disregards the evidence that low thyroid

appears to

be a definitive link to that particular mental disorder...well..what can you

do? Ya try to help...and if folks don't want help...ya gotta let it go.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 9:57:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,

starz@... writes:

> There are people who don't want to see such as

> what you pointed out, because they'll be writing less prescriptions to

> their patients and that's going to cut into profits, eventually

yall are so sweet...thank you. yea..this was another thing i thought

of...less money for the docs who treat this...the doc I disagreed with does CBT

(cognitive behavioral therapy) for BDD folks...and I just pointed out that if it

was a thyroid function causing their depression and anxiety...no amount of CBT

was gonna help. The moderator musta thought that was rude.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 10:08:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,

marin@... writes:

> BUT to ban the saying of a word that is the name of a

> disease--I'm sorry, but that is just insane, and I would not want any part

> of it. One thing I would want to do, though, would be to send convincing

> evidence to some forum members, to let them know that what I said is the

> truth. My mouth is literally hanging open, but I don't guess it should

I know. I'm a bit stunned too. And it's not like it's a wild theory. When

I got diagnosed and realized all my BDD symptoms had been related to low

thyroid, I remember another member's son that had BDD was on Armour Thyroid.

That's what got me interested in the connection. But the evidence is already

there

now. Three more US members got tested and subsequently were diagnosed hypo.

Two UK members were tested and their Free T3 was one lab value above the

bottom of the range. And some other " guests " have written and said they were

hypo. The other US member that got tested is the moderator...at least she said

she got tested...now I'm wondering. Uh...if I had the disorder and started

seeing evidence like that, I'd be running to check it out. The whole thing is

just weird.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 10:20:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,

marin@... writes:

> Something you said just struck me as

> familiar. Am I just crazy or paranoid? When you said " vested interest " in

> remaining sick. Maybe my immagination is out of whack

if you're crazy and paranoid, then I am too.

Because I've thought about all of this.

I had sent a summary of my research and the finding of the folks on that

forum that have been diagnosed hypo, have low Free T3, have autoimmune disorders

to a number of the top researchers in the field. And that wasn't so long ago.

And my paranoia has now led me to believe they have contacted the

administrator of the forum to shut me up because it interferes with their

research grants

and their livelihoods.

I think I need to go pop another 1/2 grain of Armour today.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 10:42:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,

MamaMaha@... writes:

>

>

> Venturing into the unknown of " wellness " can be just as big a step

> to take & just as large a risk as many other things & carry a lot of

> stress with it involving all of the above.

>

wow...i believe that is a great truth...it does take " courage " to take those

steps towards wellness.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 10:55:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,

MamaMaha@... writes:

>

>

> What's BDD, may I ask?

>

Body Dysmorphic Disorder. It is defined as a preoccupation with one's

appearance..feeling uncomfortable. Actually has a 30% suicide rate. Most

BDDers

are initially diagnosed as social phobic or depressed or anxiety. These are all

parts of the disorder. Just being very uncomfortable around other people and

obsessing about one's appearance. I have surmised that it is the " visual

distortion " that can be present in hypo that may have a factor in the

disorder...and of course all the other stuff that is a part of BDD is aslo

listed as low

thyroid symptoms: depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, obessions,

self-image problems, reclusiveness, hyper sensitivity, lack of motivation,

fatigue,

etc.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2004 11:26:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jamyrogers@... writes:

> perhaps this Dr on that

> list needs them to be sick so he can be the expert in that and make his

> fortune off their illness.

>

actually what I had noticed about this psychologist (who is currently

visiting that forum answering questions) is that he " talks down " to the people.

That

really bothers me..I remember too many doctors who were condenscending to

me...and sorta makes me think of the problems so many of us here has had with

arrogant " professionals " . I truly don't know why the helping professions like

medicine, psychology, etc. have come to this. I know they're all not like

that...but it seems so many are...and I just don't understand it sometimes.

sigh.

cindi

[Guest guest]

nne

I was flamed on another list for saying that but I do believe it is true. Some

people just like to have a " poor me " status.

Lynda (in the UK)

RE: a psychologist on thyroid connection

I have found many people are not interested in getting better. Their

identity is how much misery they are in, it seems. If they got the well,

they would loose themselves.

nne

[Guest guest]

It's disgusting, is what it is. Talk about your Big Brother

scenarios...sheesh! Over a personal opnion on thyroid? What a slap

in the face that must have been. I've had that done to me before

online & off & it just makes me very incensed...furious in fact. And

when I get that angry, it's like a volcanic explosion. If allowed

to, I'd get myself in worse trouble for what I said after the fact.

'Course ya can't lash back when they've cut you off, can you?

But then that's their " agenda " , isn't it? No further discussion, no

talking it over for resolution, just isolate & restrict the person.

Gee, I thought this was a free country? Guess not, huh?

> Just today, I

> have seen where a moderator there has posted all sorts of lies

about

> me...like I

> was trying to push my " agenda " , etc. And they have now added a

rule that

> " thyroid " can not be mentioned and that if it is, the member will

be banned.

> I

> am speechless...but it seriously has made me reconsider whether I

want to

> tell

> anyone when I think they have a low thyroid problem.

> Cindi

>

>

>

> WoW, that is unbelievable, You are just trying to help people. It

isn't like

> you are selling armour or anything.

>

>

>

> I have found many people are not interested in getting better.

Their

> identity is how much misery they are in, it seems. If they got

the well,

> they would loose themselves.

>

> nne

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cindi, it's sad that they feel they have to ostracize you, but.....it

is really their loss. There are people who don't want to see such as

what you pointed out, because they'll be writing less prescriptions to

their patients and that's going to cut into profits, eventually.

They'd have to send the people to Endo's, pcp's, or Internists, and

once they realized that more of their symptoms are thyroid related,

they'd have no need for the psychologist. :-) We're glad your here

too.

SandyE~Houston

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:51:02 EDT

nc2406@... wrote:

> In a message dated 10/25/2004 9:17:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> marianne@... writes:

>

> > WoW, that is unbelievable, You are just trying to help people. It

>isn't

> > like

> > you are selling armour or anything.

> >

> >

> >

> > I have found many people are not interested in getting better.

>Their

> > identity is how much misery they are in, it seems. If they got

>the well,

> > they would loose themselves.

> >

>

> Yes...you hit on it exactly. I had told my husband about all

>this...and

> that's what I told him " people get a vested interested in remaining

>sick " and a

> thyroid disorder is not as sexy as having some quirky mental

>disorder.

> And yes, I really was just trying to help people. Everyone in the

>US on that

> forum that has been tested has been diagnosed hypo. And the amount

>of folks

> that have autoimmune illness, including thyroid, in their family is

>amazing.

> It's interesting to me that when a forum member discovers a

>definitive link

> to the disorder, that it is censored.

> I start thinking " conspiracy " theories all over again...because it

>seems when

> " low thyroid " comes up...no professional wants to admit that it's

>the

> problem.

> Anyway....I sure thank you folks for being here. And I can say

> " thyroid " all

> day long here.

> Cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It may be a Yahoo site, but it's still a violation of freedom of speech. I

understand that on a forum, the sbjct of the forum is the main thing, but

anything related to that, or with a possibility of being related to that

would be a part of the sbjct. This owner-moderator-forum sounds rather

insane to me! I could understand if it was about a curse word or someone

deliberately humiliating someone, just for the sake of humiliating them, or

to humiliate them because of their disease, or to advertise some product

they're selling, BUT to ban the saying of a word that is the name of a

disease--I'm sorry, but that is just insane, and I would not want any part

of it. One thing I would want to do, though, would be to send convincing

evidence to some forum members, to let them know that what I said is the

truth. My mouth is literally hanging open, but I don't guess it should. We

have a whole mindset now within the society that is an incredible forerunner

of communist ways, no matter how minute that SOME people (I didn't say me)

think of it. This site owner sounds something like a Hitler or Stalin, in

his own little world. Eeeeekkkk!!!!

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> In a message dated 10/25/2004 8:58:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> marin@... writes:

>

> > I, too, was on one antidepressant,

> > tranquilizer, antipsychotic, and another. I'm not saying that sometimes

> > they don't have ANY purpose, very temporarily, but to automatically put

> > people on these drugs for the next few lightyrs, is devastating, and

they've

> > looked no further.

> >

> >

>

> Exactly. I agree with you that the drugs have their place...but thyroid

> function should always be checked.

>

> Interestingly enough, you may remember that I posted that I was banned

from

> BDD Central for disagreeing with Dr. J. Claiborn on his inaccurate

statements

> about the psychiatric manifestations of thyroid dysfunction. Just today,

I

> have seen where a moderator there has posted all sorts of lies about

me...like I

> was trying to push my " agenda " , etc. And they have now added a rule that

> " thyroid " can not be mentioned and that if it is, the member will be

banned. I

> am speechless...but it seriously has made me reconsider whether I want to

tell

> anyone when I think they have a low thyroid problem.

> Cindi

[Guest guest]

You should post the address of this BDD Central. Than we will ALL

join and start talking about thyroid stuff. Might make a point!

Louise

> > Just today, I

> > have seen where a moderator there has posted all sorts of lies

> about

> > me...like I

> > was trying to push my " agenda " , etc. And they have now added a

> rule that

> > " thyroid " can not be mentioned and that if it is, the member will

> be banned.

> > I

> > am speechless...but it seriously has made me reconsider whether I

> want to

> > tell

> > anyone when I think they have a low thyroid problem.

> > Cindi

> >

> >

> >

> > WoW, that is unbelievable, You are just trying to help people. It

> isn't like

> > you are selling armour or anything.

> >

> >

> >

> > I have found many people are not interested in getting better.

> Their

> > identity is how much misery they are in, it seems. If they got

> the well,

> > they would loose themselves.

> >

> > nne

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, fellow Thyroidians, we say it over and over----Thyroid disorders are at

the bottom of so many things. Something you said just struck me as

familiar. Am I just crazy or paranoid? When you said " vested interest " in

remaining sick. Maybe my immagination is out of whack, but could it be it's

kind of " vested interest " and a set up to push a certain pharmaceutical's

drugs, as in the theory we've discussed over and over about people being

" planted " in various places to listen in an plant some poison into people's

minds, so that they would be influenced to buy more drugs? It's certainly

possible, and why wouldn't one of the big companies (or more) sit in on or

even create forums to exercise much more influence over people. They're

coming there to get help, and THEY don't know. Does that sound like some

over blown idea or a childish theory? Those factions pay hundreds of

millions of dollars to sit in Washington and places like that, why wouldn't

they also use the internet for these purposes?

Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>

> In a message dated 10/25/2004 9:17:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> marianne@... writes:

>

> > WoW, that is unbelievable, You are just trying to help people. It isn't

> > like

> > you are selling armour or anything.

> >

> >

> >

> > I have found many people are not interested in getting better. Their

> > identity is how much misery they are in, it seems. If they got the

well,

> > they would loose themselves.

> >

>

> Yes...you hit on it exactly. I had told my husband about all this...and

> that's what I told him " people get a vested interested in remaining sick "

and a

> thyroid disorder is not as sexy as having some quirky mental disorder.

> And yes, I really was just trying to help people. Everyone in the US on

that

> forum that has been tested has been diagnosed hypo. And the amount of

folks

> that have autoimmune illness, including thyroid, in their family is

amazing.

> It's interesting to me that when a forum member discovers a definitive

link

> to the disorder, that it is censored.

> I start thinking " conspiracy " theories all over again...because it seems

when

> " low thyroid " comes up...no professional wants to admit that it's the

> problem.

> Anyway....I sure thank you folks for being here. And I can say " thyroid "

all

> day long here.

> Cindi

[Guest guest]

Hi Cindi,

I am coming in late in this thread. I am a psychologist that

practices CBT (also a fellow thyroid sufferer who is currently on

the hypO side), and I agree with you, that if the cause of

depression and anxiety is thyroid related, the best way to treat

someone is to address the underlying physical cause. Half the

solution to a problem lies in defining it. If you misattribute the

cause to some other factor, you are off base.

I know that when I was in a hyperT phase of this illness, no amount

of stress management exercises was going to take away my

palpitations! (And I was not even under psychological stress.) Also,

when I was having a bad bout of insomnia when I swung hypO, I

insisted on thyroid meds rather than the suggested sleep aids the

docs wanted me on; I was able to get some synthroid and my sleep

improved rapidly and significantly (I still had some other problems

that synthroid didn't address, but that's a story for another time!).

> > their patients and that's going to cut into profits, eventually

>

> yall are so sweet...thank you. yea..this was another thing i

thought

> of...less money for the docs who treat this...the doc I disagreed

with does CBT

> (cognitive behavioral therapy) for BDD folks...and I just pointed

out that if it

> was a thyroid function causing their depression and anxiety...no

amount of CBT

> was gonna help. The moderator musta thought that was rude.

> Cindi

[Guest guest]

What's BDD, may I ask?

> I had sent Dr. Claiborn of BDD fame (respected

psychologist/written books)

> lots and lots of info on low thyroid and psychiatric conditions...

[Guest guest]

Like Gutler has deemed himself a thyroid expert and milks money from

unsuspecting patients while not making them well, perhaps this Dr on that

list needs them to be sick so he can be the expert in that and make his

fortune off their illness.

>From: nc2406@...

>Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>Subject: Re: a psychologist on thyroid connection

>Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:51:02 EDTIt's interesting to me that when a forum

>member discovers a definitive link

to the disorder, that it is censored.

I start thinking " conspiracy " theories all over again...because it seems

when

" low thyroid " comes up...no professional wants to admit that it's the

problem.

Anyway....I sure thank you folks for being here. And I can say " thyroid "

all

day long here.

Cindi

>