Re: Finding My Own Way

[Guest guest]

--- In diabetes_int , Helen Mueller <jlnhjm@s...>

Why not try the arginine for your creeping bgs in the evening and

> morning? Leave the other meds in place for now, this way you will

have a

> clearer picture of what arginine is doing for you. Try starting with

a

> gram before dinner and another one before bedtime. Wait two or three

> days before making any changes.

Helen, that is a great suggestion. I will definitely give it a try.

Any place in particular you buy arginine?

Thanks!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

I get my arginine at http://www.swansonvitamins.com in the bigger

bottle. Sometimes they even feature it in a special sale.

Helen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/29/2005 9:42:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,

whimsy2@... writes:

> Actually, occasional high excursions when you get right back down again

> are a lot less harmful than being high and STAYING high

I agree.

The focus for good control should be on getting the A1c right. Personally, I

try and limit my highs to about 180 to try and prevent glycosuria. And I

endeavor to limit the lows to about 65 to prevent the uncomfortable feelings,

shaking and sweating, that for me are the first signs of a BG that is too low.

[Guest guest]

Actually, occasional high excursions when you get right back down again

are a lot less harmful than being high and STAYING high - that's what

causes the real problems. Although it's not a good idea to go high on a

regular basis, I do it now and then - and that usually happens when I

eat out and have to guess at my Humalog dose and I guess wrong.

For instance, last night: when I got home after dinner and theater, my

BG was 211 - but I took a corrective dose of Humalog before I went to

sleep and this morning my FBG was 134. Not great but not too bad. Then

of course I took my morning Humalog, based on my starting point, carbs

eaten plus insulin for dawn rise.

Of course, this isn't possible if you're on pills or diet and exercise

for control.

Vicki, heading for 8 years with diabetes and still no complications and

hopin' for none...

Finding My Own Way

> Thanks to all for the great suggestions. I'm going to have to

> struggle to find my own way to deal with the roller coaster. I can't

> change doctors. I only take two meds, both of which I take about 30

> minutes before breakfast. (500 mg metformin & 5mg glipizide) That's

> all I have to work with and it takes both meds to bring the morning

> high numbers down. That is why I was asking her for something to

> take in the evenings. She insisted that adding another metformin

> would not make any difference. She also said that a reading of 200

> on occasion was not anything to worry about.

>

> I believe I could take arginine before supper and slow down the

> steady climb after supper. Has this worked for any of you folks?

> Wonder what would happen if I took only the glip in the mornings and

> saved the metformin til mid afternoon? May try that and see if it

> changes anything.

>

> A nice walk after supper would be wonderful but it doesn't agree with

> my bad back. Doc just referred me to a neurosugeon to see if surgery

> will help. She said my MRI showed all the disks in the lower spine

> are deteriorated and there is a lot of stenosis. No wonder my leg

> goes numb when I stand on it. Maybe if I get my back all fixed I can

> go for that walk. That is something nice to think about!!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i am new diabetic 2,on diet and excerise program,i have bad days,like when i go

out to eat too.when it gets over 200 or over it scares me,so i go for a walk or

so.but i do test on the finger a lot.i am learing many things from this

groups.thanks

[Guest guest]

>

> The focus for good control should be on getting the A1c right.

Personally, I

> try and limit my highs to about 180 to try and prevent glycosuria.

And I

> endeavor to limit the lows to about 65 to prevent the uncomfortable

feelings,

> shaking and sweating, that for me are the first signs of a BG that

is too low.

> .>>>>>>>>.

I agree as well, and this was the point I was making. Obviously,

lots of high post meal spikes will affect the a1c, and for many

people getting the a1c lower means limiting the post meal spike.

As Vicki pointed out, those on insuline are dealing with different

issues than those not on insulin, and have different control issues.

I've now found that as my control is much tighter on the pump, and

still improving, that I have many more BG tests show an under 100

reading, but coupled with this is the need for more fine tuning as

last week I had a couple of mild lows. Like highs, I don't want lows.

I try to concentrate on avoiding the extremes and getting my Fasting

BG in the right place. For me, the fasting is so important because

it sets the tone for the day. If it's under 120, the day is much

easier. If it's 150 or 160, I have to chase it for several hours.

I actually had pizza last week for the first time since diagnosis,

and my two hour pp was 145, and at 4 hours, I was back at 100, so I

had no problem with that as something I'll do occasionally. The pump

gives me an advantage here as I can program part of the bolus for up

front and part as an extended bolus over the course of time up to 8

hours, so I did three hours for the pizza, and it worked well to deal

with the pizza effect we all know about.

My way is just my way however, and some are more strict with the way

they eat...

As for the bluberry pie that gretchen mentioned... unfortunately,

that spike would probably be over 200, and I stay away from that

number as much as possible!

[Guest guest]

I agree that an OCCASIONAL high is not dangerous but I do believe with

Alan that continuous excursions are wreaking unseen havoc whether we

know it or not.

Especially since research has shown that deterioration occurs even

before a diagnosable level has been reached.

I try not to have anything go over 150 at anytime. About the only

problem I can thing of is if I decide to have a piece of real pizza.

If one has a 5.3 A1c as Cidy had & yet is having unstable daily bg

control then that has to mean a LOT of highs & lows which are averaging

out to a fairly good looking number. This is NOT a healthy or desirable

state at all.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 5/05 A1c: 5.3 = 111 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, B12, ALC, Vit C, Cac/mag,

low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 20 mg/coQ10 100mg, Enalapril 10 mg

5/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309)

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Are there any studies on how dangerous an occasional high is? And what

is that dangerous number? With careful attention to diet, I can keep

my postprandial 1 hour at 140 (7.7) (usually 120 (6.6)) most all the

time. By two hours, I'm back down to the 100's (5.5) This week, there

were four dinners out and I was not careful. I saw a couple of 150's,

but they came down quickly. Still, I didn't like them and yesterday, I

was back to my careful diet. I think, for me, I can have one or two

meals a week with more carbs and no side effects, but not four - and

not with as much food!

But the other trend I saw was creeping up of my fasting blood sugars.

I'm usually between 99 and 109 in the mornings. This week, I saw a

gradual creeping up to 115-120. And when I ate my normal foods, I

would go higher than normal. It was a good reminder to keep the food

under control.

A related question: With a change in diet earlier this year, I was able

to go off Metformin and lower my fasting numbers to the low 100's. I

sometimes see a mid 90 fasting. Is there any reason to try to bring

those down to mid 90's fasting all the time? In terms of damage to my

body, that is?

Kathie, t2, dx 5/97, d & e since 2/05

2/05 A1c: 5.4

> I agree that an OCCASIONAL high is not dangerous but I do believe with

> Alan that continuous excursions are wreaking unseen havoc whether we

> know it or not.

> Especially since research has shown that deterioration occurs even

> before a diagnosable level has been reached.

>

> I try not to have anything go over 150 at anytime. About the only

> problem I can thing of is if I decide to have a piece of real pizza.

>

> If one has a 5.3 A1c as Cidy had & yet is having unstable daily bg

> control then that has to mean a LOT of highs & lows which are averaging

> out to a fairly good looking number. This is NOT a healthy or

> desirable

> state at all.

>

>

> cappie

> Greater Boston Area

> T-2 10/02 5/05 A1c: 5.3 = 111 mean glu

> 50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

>

> ALA/EPO, B12, ALC, Vit C, Cac/mag,

> low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

> Policosanol, fish oil cap,

> fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

> Lovastatin 20 mg/coQ10 100mg, Enalapril 10 mg

>

> 5/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309)

> 5' tall /age 67,

> cappie@...

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, ...did I send you a copy of my " newby letter " onlist? If you

haven't read it, please say so and I'll post it for you here. It has

useful information in it.

Vicki

Re: Finding My Own Way

>i am new diabetic 2,on diet and excerise program,i have bad days,like

>when i go out to eat too.when it gets over 200 or over it scares me,so

>i go for a walk or so.but i do test on the finger a lot.i am learing

>many things from this groups.thanks

>

[Guest guest]

> Are there any studies on how dangerous an occasional high is?

I wouldn't think an occasional high would be dangerous. It would be daily

fluctuations from low to high that I'd try to avoid.

When I was Dx'd, I had fastings in 300s and went into 400s and even 500s

after meals. I felt fine.

> I saw a couple of 150's,

> but they came down quickly.

Don't panic. Even nondiabetics would go up that high occasionally,

especially when they get older. What we need to worry about is the usual

daily levels, not the occasional high.

> A related question: With a change in diet earlier this year, I was able

> to go off Metformin and lower my fasting numbers to the low 100's. I

> sometimes see a mid 90 fasting. Is there any reason to try to bring

> those down to mid 90's fasting all the time?

The lower the better. Even in nondiabetics, those with BGs in the

high-normal range have more heart attacks than people with lower BGs. But we

always have to balance our BG goals with our quality of life. If keeping

your BGs lower would mean you were miserable all the time, the small

reduction in risk would probably not be worth it.

Gretchen