Guest guest Posted January 1, 2001 Report Share Posted January 1, 2001 Yes. thoughtful piece on the "nocebo" effect of AA. Further related considerations: 1. The "disease" definition of alcoholism is a rationalization for those who don't want to face their own personal shortcomings. It allows them to say, "It's not my fault!" 2. "Spiritual" (accepted by AA) vs. "religious" (not accepted by AA) nature of the program is a sham. It's simply distinction without difference. In every court case where AA as a religion has been tested, usually for tax purposes and I believe there have been seven such cases over the years, AA has been found to be a religion. 3. Despite all the reasonable negatives about the program, let us not forget that AA helps a person impose a useful self-discipline on him or herself, a quality largely lacking in practicing alcoholics. 4. Doing service work, reaching out to one who asks for help, being a sponsor, all these things entail individual good deeds, which lead to good habits, which lead to good character. That's the way it works. Too many expect the program to give them good character, which are then expected to generate good habits, which then result in good deeds. That's exactly backward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2001 Report Share Posted January 2, 2001 Welcome to 12-Step-Free, Edgar. Responses interspersed: > Yes. thoughtful piece on the " nocebo " effect of AA. Further related > considerations: > 1. The " disease " definition of alcoholism is a rationalization for > those who don't want to face their own personal shortcomings. It allows them > to say, " It's not my fault! " It also has allowed the disgusting proliferation of 12-step-oriented " treatment " facilities which are covered by health insurance policies -- it's a " treatable disease " !! (not) > 2. " Spiritual " (accepted by AA) vs. " religious " (not accepted by AA) > nature of the program is a sham. It's simply distinction without difference. > In every court case where AA as a religion has been tested, usually for tax > purposes and I believe there have been seven such cases over the years, AA > has been found to be a religion. TAX purposes?? I've never heard of such a case -- do you have a source or link for this? (What would taxes have to do with AA -- did someone try to make an AA group pay income tax or something?) All the cases declaring AA to be religious that I know of involved the Establishment Clause violation of courts and state agencies coercing people to attend AA and/or 12-step treatment with no non-religious alternatives allowed. > 3. Despite all the reasonable negatives about the program, let us not > forget that AA helps a person impose a useful self-discipline on him or > herself, a quality largely lacking in practicing alcoholics. There are no personality traits that are universal in all problem drinkers, and it is entriely untrue to state that all problem drinkers are lazy or lack self-discipline. Anyway, there are certainly other, better methods of encouraging self-discipline than AA involvement! > 4. Doing service work, reaching out to one who asks for help, being a > sponsor, all these things entail individual good deeds, which lead to good > habits...(snip) Why do you believe this? For someone who does not believe in 12-step theology, and/or is questioning the " AA way of life " , doing AA " service work " or being a " sponsor " would be phony, disingenuous, and not a good deed at all. ~Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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