Guest guest Posted December 13, 2000 Report Share Posted December 13, 2000 In AA I experienced and observed what I think of as the "Not Enough" phenomenon. Most know that AA stresses the importance of hitting rock-bottom, believing it is only at that point a person will be willing to accept the program. Many mistake their natural resistance to the the steps and everything that comes with them as evidence that they haven't had enough to "get" Alcoholics Anonymous. Nate Re: AA Dropouts> > > I have heard that there is some convincing evidence that AA> (12-step)> > involvement not only is ineffective but that it actually creates> > dependence patterns that cause those who return to drinking to be> > waaay worse then they ever were before the steps. Does anybody out> > there have any stats on how much more severe the drinking of a> former> > stepper is than that of anybody who tried to quite through non-XA> > methods?>>>>>>>> >> > I guess it's kind of like being told you have a brain tumor. The Dr.> > says that if they operate there's only a 1 in 20 chance that the> > operation will work. (those are AA's "success" stats, I believe) The> > Dr. continues to explain "if you don't do anything at all, you will> > probably experience some deterioration in your mental and physical> > capacities over time and ultimately the tumor will take some years> > off of your life. You will, however have a few more good years. If> > you take the operation, with the 1 in 20 chance, and it doesn't> work,> > your condition will rapidly decline and you may be dead within a> > year." Who in their right mind would risk the operation?> >> > I think this is a fairly good analogy of the danger of AA. Not> > just "try it for a while, if it doesn't work, quit." There's some> > actual psychic damage being inflicted here. I want to find out the> > actual magnitude of accelerated decline that the stepper who returns> > to drinking faces, vs the person who tries to quit on their own.> >> > Thanks,> >> > >>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2000 Report Share Posted December 13, 2000 > When I initially entered AA I stayed free from booze for almost 7 months and did everything they told me to do. Me too, though it was only 3 months. >At that point I felt better and had serious doubts that I was alcoholic. I didn't doubt that I had problems drinking moderately, though I was dubious of the existence of a " disease " called alcoholism. >When I took that first drink I felt an enormous amount of guilt because of what I did. I didn't, and that's exactly what bothered me. Normally, if I had made a commitment to stop drinking, or actually moderate drinking (I had never really tried to quit before AA), I would have/should have felt a great deal of guilt afterwards. I felt nothing! Actually, I almost felt a sense of pride, as though I'd passed some AA rite. >I ended up perpetuating what they told me would happen (the b.s about progression). I drank excessively that night I did the same thing. Way more than I normally would have. That started the thread of thinking that's led me to think that AA is scary specifically because lapses and " slips " are part of any good story. It's expected and you externalize the disorder so much that there's nothing for you to feel guilty about. " It's your disease that made you do it " , " that's what drunks do " . My sponsor told me this the next day! Instead of feeling guilty because I'd backed down on a personal commitment, and promise to my Wife, I was just suffering from a symptom of this " disease " ! My answer was clear. Get the hell away from AA!!! Feeling guilty is not a great way to live life but if the guilt can keep you drinking with some moderation, leave mine intact. >I continued to have these experiences for > the next two months. I stopped after 1 day of heavy drinking. I decided to redouble my efforts to get out of AA as a way of staying sober. Avoid the steps 1 day at a time. >I really feel that the fear and guilt instilled in me by AA is what caused my drinking to escalate the way it did. I never found AA to project much fear or guilt. Sure they talked about " live by our simple program or you will drink again and you'll die " , but I'd been telling myself " if I don't cut back on the booze I'll die " for a long time before I even thought of going to a meeting. I was trying to scare myself away from drinking by picturing graphic images of death and sickness every time I wanted to drink. Didn't make me moderate but it did steel me against AA's wimpy death threat. I never thought that they tried to instill guilt either. In fact, the program was robbing me of a very much needed dose of guilt. They seemed to be trying to make me have so little self worth that I couldn't possibly feel guilty. After all, you can only feel guilty if you deliberately harm someone or really screw something up. If you've got AA powerlessness, you " can't make anybody do anything (or feel anything) " and you're riddled with " character defects " that screwing things up is to be expected. " Honey, the baby just took his first slip. He's on the way to recovery now! " or " Hey, you went out. Congratulations, I remember the first three times I went out.................. " Thanks for the response, Re: AA Dropouts > > > I have heard that there is some convincing evidence that AA > (12-step) > > involvement not only is ineffective but that it actually creates > > dependence patterns that cause those who return to drinking to be > > waaay worse then they ever were before the steps. Does anybody out > > there have any stats on how much more severe the drinking of a > former > > stepper is than that of anybody who tried to quite through non-XA > > methods? > > > > > > > > > > > I guess it's kind of like being told you have a brain tumor. The Dr. > > says that if they operate there's only a 1 in 20 chance that the > > operation will work. (those are AA's " success " stats, I believe) The > > Dr. continues to explain " if you don't do anything at all, you will > > probably experience some deterioration in your mental and physical > > capacities over time and ultimately the tumor will take some years > > off of your life. You will, however have a few more good years. If > > you take the operation, with the 1 in 20 chance, and it doesn't > work, > > your condition will rapidly decline and you may be dead within a > > year. " Who in their right mind would risk the operation? > > > > I think this is a fairly good analogy of the danger of AA. Not > > just " try it for a while, if it doesn't work, quit. " There's some > > actual psychic damage being inflicted here. I want to find out the > > actual magnitude of accelerated decline that the stepper who returns > > to drinking faces, vs the person who tries to quit on their own. > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2000 Report Share Posted December 13, 2000 At 10:01 PM 12/13/00 -0600, you wrote: >In AA I experienced and observed what I think of as the " Not Enough " >phenomenon. Most know that AA stresses the importance of hitting >rock-bottom, believing it is only at that point a person will be willing >to accept the program. Many mistake their natural resistance to the the >steps and everything that comes with them as evidence that they haven't >had enough to " get " Alcoholics Anonymous. But don't forget that anyone who doesn't fit the stereotype is simply labelled as " high bottom. " The concept of " hitting bottom " is thus really quite meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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