Guest guest Posted December 1, 2000 Report Share Posted December 1, 2000 oh, this has to be totally fabricated. what is definition of " Success " in this study? 84% success? that is higher than the bullshit the Church of Scientology addiction treatment program was claiming LOL. they only claimed a 75% rate success. > 21. HOW SUCCESSFUL IS THE NAVY'S ALCOHOL TREATMENT? > > According to the 1989 Caliber Study: > > Overall enlisted Success Rate: 53% > > Rank Success Rate Percentage > > E-9...........................84% > > E-8...........................80% > > E-7...........................79% > > E-6...........................75% > > E-5...........................65% > > E-4...........................55% > > E-3...........................44% > > E-2...........................36% > > E-1...........................21% > > No statistics are available for the officer community. > > http://www.dapmaeast.navy.mil/faq.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2000 Report Share Posted December 1, 2000 Tommy: What do the ranks mean? Is an E-9 a higher rank than E-1 or lower? judith > 21. HOW SUCCESSFUL IS THE NAVY'S ALCOHOL TREATMENT? > > According to the 1989 Caliber Study: > > Overall enlisted Success Rate: 53% > > Rank Success Rate Percentage > > E-9...........................84% > > E-8...........................80% > > E-7...........................79% > > E-6...........................75% > > E-5...........................65% > > E-4...........................55% > > E-3...........................44% > > E-2...........................36% > > E-1...........................21% > > No statistics are available for the officer community. > > http://www.dapmaeast.navy.mil/faq.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2000 Report Share Posted December 1, 2000 Judith, E-9 is the highest enlisted (non-commisioned officer) rank in the military. In the Navy an E-9 is a Master Chief Petty Officer. An E-1 is the lowest rank and in the Navy is a Seaman Recruit. Although these percentages may seem high by the civilian world standards, I was shocked to find them this low. I assumed that because the military has such absolute control over its people and requires abstainence from those who have been treated, the percentages would be higher. The percentages are higher than the civilian world simply because of the greater control, not because of any superiority (as the Navy inquisitors might have people believe) of Navy treatment. Navy treatment is 12-step and is the same brutal nonsense as 12-step treatment anywhere. One of the reason's the military is such a huge threat to our cause is because they coerce some to quite drinking, and then the Navy CDC goons run around thinking nonsense like " Behold the wonders of God, and I am His agent " , thus the propagation of the nonsense that " treatment works " and the superiority of military treatment. The graduated scale of " success " in the ranks makes this clear. An E-9 not only has more to lose, but also more maturity and experience at responsibility than an E-1. Yet another example of how silly the entire 12-step trickment mentality is. I have invented a form of treatment that I have no doubt would be more successful than that of the Navy. Give me a random group of drinkers like you would find in Navy treatment, most coerced because of ARI's (Alcohol Related Incidents) but some voluntarily seeking " help " . Some in the group acutally want to quit or moderate their drinking, and some do not wish to do either. Take them one at a time and tie them to a tree and throw rotton tomatos at them (which incidently is much less abusive than what they actually do to them in 12-step treatment). Even if one person in this group quit or moderated, then this would be " proof " that my rotton tomato treatment " works " . If more than 53% quit then I would be the new guru or alcohol treatment and Doug Talbott would have nothing on me. Rotton grapes may work even better. > > > 21. HOW SUCCESSFUL IS THE NAVY'S ALCOHOL TREATMENT? > > > > According to the 1989 Caliber Study: > > > > Overall enlisted Success Rate: 53% > > > > Rank Success Rate Percentage > > > > E-9...........................84% > > > > E-8...........................80% > > > > E-7...........................79% > > > > E-6...........................75% > > > > E-5...........................65% > > > > E-4...........................55% > > > > E-3...........................44% > > > > E-2...........................36% > > > > E-1...........................21% > > > > No statistics are available for the officer community. > > > > http://www.dapmaeast.navy.mil/faq.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2000 Report Share Posted December 2, 2000 Thank you for the links, I checked them out. Sorry about all the dumb questions that follow, but I'm kind of starting to grasp how much I *don't* know about the military. > You'll notice they left the Coast Guard off this > page. I don't agree with that at all. Since they fall under the DOT vice > the DOD allot of people think they really aren't a part of the military. I > vote they do. DOD=Dept of Defense and DOT=Dept of Transportation? > One thing I've always found a little funny is the way the Air Force cheats > just a little with ranks (and chevrons) :0) Take a look at the pages and > you'll see what I'm talking about. I would have done some tweaking with the > way this site lists the E-9's but overall it's a really good format. I looked at the insignia page and I actually compared the different enlisted insignia. Are chevrons the little v-shaped thingies worn on the sleeve? I couldn't tell for sure what you mean about the Air Force cheating--is it because they have more bars on their chevrons? I have to say I found the Navy insignia the flashiest and most eye-catching. Way more colorful than the other branches. I am a fan of color! Seriously, thanks again for this. judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2000 Report Share Posted December 2, 2000 > Judith, > > E-9 is the highest enlisted (non-commisioned officer) rank in the > military. In the Navy an E-9 is a Master Chief Petty Officer. An E-1 > is the lowest rank and in the Navy is a Seaman Recruit. Although > these percentages may seem high by the civilian world standards, I was > shocked to find them this low. I assumed that because the military > has such absolute control over its people and requires abstainence > from those who have been treated, the percentages would be higher. > The percentages are higher than the civilian world simply because of > the greater control, not because of any superiority (as the Navy > inquisitors might have people believe) of Navy treatment. Navy > treatment is 12-step and is the same brutal nonsense as 12-step > treatment anywhere. One of the reason's the military is such a huge > threat to our cause is because they coerce some to quite drinking, and > then the Navy CDC goons run around thinking nonsense like " Behold the > wonders of God, and I am His agent " , thus the propagation of the > nonsense that " treatment works " and the superiority of military > treatment. The graduated scale of " success " in the ranks makes this > clear. An E-9 not only has more to lose, but also more maturity and > experience at responsibility than an E-1. Yet another example of how > silly the entire 12-step trickment mentality is. This makes a lot of sense to me Tommy. Even though I am almost entirely ignorant about the military, I know how awful it is to work with self-righteous types in an office. I can't imagine having to deal with it in a military setting, frankly it makes me shudder. I'm glad you have the courage to be so open about your experience. It DOES take a lot of courage, I think. I'm getting a little less secretive about this part of my identity, my involvement with AA and the 12 steps, very gradually. But I'm still afraid of people in my daily life knowing this about me. That shame is so powerful, it kept me quiet for a long time. > I have invented a form of treatment that I have no doubt would be more > successful than that of the Navy. Give me a random group of drinkers > like you would find in Navy treatment, most coerced because of ARI's > (Alcohol Related Incidents) but some voluntarily seeking " help " . Some > in the group acutally want to quit or moderate their drinking, and > some do not wish to do either. Take them one at a time and tie them > to a tree and throw rotton tomatos at them (which incidently is much > less abusive than what they actually do to them in 12-step treatment). > Even if one person in this group quit or moderated, then this would be > " proof " that my rotton tomato treatment " works " . If more than 53% > quit then I would be the new guru or alcohol treatment and Doug > Talbott would have nothing on me. > Rotton grapes may work even better. hehe, the Perkins Principle! judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2000 Report Share Posted December 2, 2000 Hi . I was an O-3 in the Coast Guard. I lost my career after resisting 12-step treatment as a self-referal after seeing how abusive it was. Here is my website: http://www.angelfire.com/journal/forcedaa/index.html And here is my story if you are up for a long read: /message/12-step-free/17666? & start=17637 Tommy > > > > > >> 21. HOW SUCCESSFUL IS THE NAVY'S ALCOHOL TREATMENT? > > >> > > >> According to the 1989 Caliber Study: > > >> > > >> Overall enlisted Success Rate: 53% > > >> > > >> Rank Success Rate Percentage > > >> > > >> E-9...........................84% > > >> > > >> E-8...........................80% > > >> > > >> E-7...........................79% > > >> > > >> E-6...........................75% > > >> > > >> E-5...........................65% > > >> > > >> E-4...........................55% > > >> > > >> E-3...........................44% > > >> > > >> E-2...........................36% > > >> > > >> E-1...........................21% > > >> > > >> No statistics are available for the officer community. > > >> > > >> http://www.dapmaeast.navy.mil/faq.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2000 Report Share Posted December 2, 2000 > > > > Re: Navy " success rates " > > I have > >to say I found the Navy insignia the flashiest and most eye-catching. > >Way more colorful than the other branches. I am a fan of color! > > > OMG!!!! Judith! Eye-catching? Yes! They were in different colors for different seasons, that's the kind of detail that I notice. And different colors for seaman, airman and fireman. What can I say? judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2000 Report Share Posted December 2, 2000 Judith, If you like colors compare this to navy grey: http://www.uscg.mil/ > > > > > > > Re: Navy " success rates " > > > > I have > > >to say I found the Navy insignia the flashiest and most > eye-catching. > > >Way more colorful than the other branches. I am a fan of color! > > > > > OMG!!!! Judith! Eye-catching? > > Yes! They were in different colors for different seasons, that's the > kind of detail that I notice. And different colors for seaman, airman > and fireman. What can I say? > > judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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