Guest guest Posted November 13, 2000 Report Share Posted November 13, 2000 I lost my license to practice Pharmacy due to " non-compliance " . Despite 3 meetings weekly, attendance at professional recovery events, speaking 4 times to inmates at the county jail, " leading " at a half dozen AA meetings, demonstrating 4 years of sobriety with weekly random urine drops, and chairing my home group twice a year, I failed to contact my sponsor/intervener on a regular basis (he refused to return calls and messages left on his answering machine did not constitute " contact " ). From my own experience, Recovery has little to do with AA. I now spend my time with my wife, children, and church, and not at some dumbing-down room in some basement. My license for my life. It was a good trade. Larry Re: Tommy Hi Tommy; These AA folks don't even have to lie directly once you are under their thumb. Statements like " Doesn't work the steps " " Doesn't accept his alcoholism " are indefensible due to their vagueness, but will get you nailed if you are on parole etc. A real goody that's been used on me is " He's non compliant " These folks never have to present evidence, only opinion. That's the part that sucks. I beat the non compliance argument by presenting evidence, but still wound up with a three month's parole extension when I was due for discharge. That was back in the late 60's. I ended up getting violated anyway, but escaped doing any time due to a friend's intervention. However, I had to leave my job and my town and move to avoid jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2000 Report Share Posted December 11, 2000 Hi Tommy; These AA folks don't even have to lie directly once you are under their thumb. Statements like " Doesn't work the steps " " Doesn't accept his alcoholism " are indefensible due to their vagueness, but will get you nailed if you are on parole etc. A real goody that's been used on me is " He's non compliant " These folks never have to present evidence, only opinion. That's the part that sucks. I beat the non compliance argument by presenting evidence, but still wound up with a three month's parole extension when I was due for discharge. That was back in the late 60's. I ended up getting violated anyway, but escaped doing any time due to a friend's intervention. However, I had to leave my job and my town and move to avoid jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2000 Report Share Posted December 11, 2000 , Sucks is right. That's what makes this thing the Inquisition it is and these folks get intoxicated as all hell on power. It's unbelievable that this could happen in the USA but it has. I would really like to see you shove it to these folks. Keep us posted. With your experience with the system, including the courts and your pro se experience, perhaps you can get a victory. Make it a point to read the article from the Duke Law Journal and Peele's " Resisting 12-Step Coercion " if you haven't already. Best of luck, I'll be pulling for you. > Hi Tommy; > > These AA folks don't even have to lie directly once you are under > their thumb. > > Statements like " Doesn't work the steps " " Doesn't accept his > alcoholism " are indefensible due to their vagueness, but will get > you nailed if you are on parole etc. A real goody that's been used > on me is " He's non compliant " > > These folks never have to present evidence, only opinion. That's > the part that sucks. I beat the non compliance argument by > presenting evidence, but still wound up with a three month's parole > extension when I was due for discharge. That was back in the late > 60's. I ended up getting violated anyway, but escaped doing any > time due to a friend's intervention. However, I had to leave my job > and my town and move to avoid jail. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2000 Report Share Posted December 11, 2000 , You probably alread have the link, but if not, here it is. Great cover-all work: http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dlj/articles/dlj47p785.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2000 Report Share Posted December 11, 2000 Hi Larry, I have contended for years that when this happens, the Religious Test Clause of Article VI, Section 3 of the Constitution is violated, as well as the Establishment Clause. I haven't seen this advanced by anyone else yet though. Any license issued by the government is a public trust, and an ultimatum of belief or participation violates this test. Also, I believe the Free Exercise Clause is violated, as does Jeff Schaler ( " Addiction is a Choice " ) Have you considered suing? I'm really anxious to see the first medical professional AND the first lawyer sue on this issue. Tommy > I lost my license to practice Pharmacy due to " non-compliance " . > Despite 3 meetings weekly, attendance at professional recovery events, > speaking 4 times to inmates at the county jail, " leading " at a half > dozen AA meetings, > demonstrating 4 years of sobriety with weekly random urine drops, and > chairing my home group twice a year, I failed to contact my > sponsor/intervener on a regular basis (he refused to return calls and > messages left on his answering machine did not constitute " contact " ). > > From my own experience, Recovery has little to do with AA. > > I now spend my time with my wife, children, and church, and not at some > dumbing-down room in some basement. > > My license for my life. > It was a good trade. > > Larry > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Tommy > > > Hi Tommy; > > These AA folks don't even have to lie directly once you are under > their thumb. > > Statements like " Doesn't work the steps " " Doesn't accept his > alcoholism " are indefensible due to their vagueness, but will get > you nailed if you are on parole etc. A real goody that's been used > on me is " He's non compliant " > > These folks never have to present evidence, only opinion. That's > the part that sucks. I beat the non compliance argument by > presenting evidence, but still wound up with a three month's parole > extension when I was due for discharge. That was back in the late > 60's. I ended up getting violated anyway, but escaped doing any > time due to a friend's intervention. However, I had to leave my job > and my town and move to avoid jail. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2000 Report Share Posted December 11, 2000 As I understand it, we have usually won legal cases on 1st amendment grounds alone. Can someone explain to me why nothing has changed? What needs to be done in the courts to effect an across the board elimination of 12step coercion by the state? Jim > > I lost my license to practice Pharmacy due to " non-compliance " . > > Despite 3 meetings weekly, attendance at professional recovery > events, > > speaking 4 times to inmates at the county jail, " leading " at a half > > dozen AA meetings, > > demonstrating 4 years of sobriety with weekly random urine drops, > and > > chairing my home group twice a year, I failed to contact my > > sponsor/intervener on a regular basis (he refused to return calls > and > > messages left on his answering machine did not constitute > " contact " ). > > > > From my own experience, Recovery has little to do with AA. > > > > I now spend my time with my wife, children, and church, and not at > some > > dumbing-down room in some basement. > > > > My license for my life. > > It was a good trade. > > > > Larry > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2000 Report Share Posted December 11, 2000 Larry, Looks like there might be some loop holes in there. You might want to talk to a lawyer. Most don't charge for a consultation, and you never know, one might just take it on a contingency. If you win, the defendent will have to pay legal fees. That's what happened with Bob Warner's case. Rita and Bob will know more about that than I. As far as the contract, they probably didn't tell you AA was religious. In fact they probably will deny it. > > I lost my license to practice Pharmacy due to " non-compliance " . > > Despite 3 meetings weekly, attendance at professional recovery > events, > > speaking 4 times to inmates at the county jail, " leading " at a half > > dozen AA meetings, > > demonstrating 4 years of sobriety with weekly random urine drops, > and > > chairing my home group twice a year, I failed to contact my > > sponsor/intervener on a regular basis (he refused to return calls > and > > messages left on his answering machine did not constitute > " contact " ). > > > > From my own experience, Recovery has little to do with AA. > > > > I now spend my time with my wife, children, and church, and not at > some > > dumbing-down room in some basement. > > > > My license for my life. > > It was a good trade. > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Tommy > > > > > > Hi Tommy; > > > > These AA folks don't even have to lie directly once you are under > > their thumb. > > > > Statements like " Doesn't work the steps " " Doesn't accept his > > alcoholism " are indefensible due to their vagueness, but will get > > you nailed if you are on parole etc. A real goody that's been used > > on me is " He's non compliant " > > > > These folks never have to present evidence, only opinion. That's > > the part that sucks. I beat the non compliance argument by > > presenting evidence, but still wound up with a three month's parole > > extension when I was due for discharge. That was back in the late > > 60's. I ended up getting violated anyway, but escaped doing any > > time due to a friend's intervention. However, I had to leave my job > > and my town and move to avoid jail. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2000 Report Share Posted December 11, 2000 Statements like "Doesn't work the steps" "Doesn't accept his alcoholism" are indefensible due to their vagueness, I once belonged to another egroup and the moderator was CONSTANTLY telling me that I was full of "ism's", what the HELL does THAT mean? Whenever I tried to get him to explain he would just tell me to read the big book and I would find out there! Sue A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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