Re: Anyone Got an AA Hateful Quote of the Month?

December 14, 2000

Anyone Got an " AA Hateful Quote of the Month? "

> I know some of you folks get around to alt.recovery.from-12-steps and

> some of the alcoholism forums. If you happen to see anyone there

> write something as stupidly hateful as this:

>

> Why Newcomers are called 'Pigeons':

>

> " I use it in a take-off about alkies are like

> pigeons because all they do is fly around in circles

> and shit on themselves. "

> Charlie P.

I had an exchange with Charlie P. on a recovery list over the summer when he

posted this gem to me. This was his response when I asked him if he

realized just how damaging it can be to newcomers when AA guru types us this

kind of language on them.

When I particpate in recovery message boards and mailing lists, I often

think that reponses such as Charlie P's will stand on their own and be an

eyeopener to others who just can't believe there is anything wrong with XA.

However, several other members of the mailing list quickly posted defending

Charlie P. as being a great, " caring " , AA member who goes out of his way to

help newcomers. One AA member even suggested that every " family " has its

" problem " members. I suppose this is sort of like the code of silence

attitude that family members have when they discover that a sibling, for

example, has committed a horendous crime. " Yes, its wrong, but this is

family " .

I'd hate to be helped by Charlie P. Actually, I'm sure I have been " helped "

by many people like him when I spent 10 years in AA.

Chris

December 14, 2000

At 07:20 AM 12/14/00 -0000, you wrote:

>I know some of you folks get around to alt.recovery.from-12-steps and

>some of the alcoholism forums. If you happen to see anyone there

>write something as stupidly hateful as this:

>

>Why Newcomers are called 'Pigeons':

>

> " I use it in a take-off about alkies are like

>pigeons because all they do is fly around in circles

>and shit on themselves. "

>Charlie P.

>

>Please send it on. Thanks! And thanks again to whomever posted this

>one. It's a gem, but it's nice to get new ones.

I get the feeling I've forgotten many pithy AA sayings, though there

seem to be many about sponsorees.

The 'reason' I heard for calling sponsorees pigeons is they shit on

their sponsors, thus providing the sponsors with the humility (!) they

need to stay sober.

Sponsors often tell their sponsorees " You help me more than I could

possibly help you " , which could mean many things, but mostly the sponsor

sees the sponsoree doing such stupid things that it reminds the sponsor

not to do those things, thus keeping the sponsor sober.

One of the sponsors I had called sponsorees 'babies', a reflection of

where newcomers were in their 'spiritual growth'. He was recently divorced

(as if that were an excuse, I saw married men doing this) and had a habit

of 13th-stepping newcomers.

I'll post more as the flashbacks happen...

-----

http://listen.to/benbradley

December 14, 2000

> I know some of you folks get around to alt.recovery.from-12-steps

and

> some of the alcoholism forums. If you happen to see anyone there

> write something as stupidly hateful as this:

> Why Newcomers are called 'Pigeons':

>

> " I use it in a take-off about alkies are like

> pigeons because all they do is fly around in circles

> and shit on themselves. "

> Charlie P.

>

> Please send it on. Thanks! And thanks again to whomever posted this

> one. It's a gem, but it's nice to get new ones.

>

> Best,

>

I don't think that Charlie really knew what pigeons meant?

It was a name given to sponsees from sponsors. Sponsors referred to

sponsees as pigeons because all they do is fly around and shit all

over you. The analogy was sponsees....to pigeons.

Pat

Either way its still stupid.

December 14, 2000

> I had an exchange with Charlie P. on a recovery list over the

summer when he

> posted this gem to me.

Oh, so you're the guy I lifted it from. Thanks.

This was his response when I asked him if he

> realized just how damaging it can be to newcomers when AA guru

types us this

> kind of language on them.

It's forever immortalized on the Recovery Liberation Front website

at www.aahorror.net in the AA Hate Mail section on top.

I'd love to have a new quote every month, and archive the old ones.

They don't have to be from Charlie P.

> When I particpate in recovery message boards and mailing lists, I

often

> think that reponses such as Charlie P's will stand on their own and

be an

> eyeopener to others who just can't believe there is anything wrong

with XA.

> However, several other members of the mailing list quickly posted

defending

> Charlie P. as being a great, " caring " , AA member who goes out of

his way to

> help newcomers. One AA member even suggested that every " family "

has its

> " problem " members. I suppose this is sort of like the code of

silence

> attitude that family members have when they discover that a

sibling, for

> example, has committed a horendous crime. " Yes, its wrong, but

this is

> family " .

Oh, then you've noticed that a lot of AA groups sport an MOM & POP

pair? They're both old-timers. One is abusive, the other sits by and

nods indulgently, sort of like the sick families they came from where

Dad is abusive and the Mother stands by her man.

Yuck!

>

> I'd hate to be helped by Charlie P. Actually, I'm sure I have

been " helped "

> by many people like him when I spent 10 years in AA.

I'll bet Charlie has " helped " people get drunk or suicide.

Best,

December 14, 2000

>

> I don't think that Charlie really knew what pigeons meant?

> It was a name given to sponsees from sponsors. Sponsors referred

to

> sponsees as pigeons because all they do is fly around and shit all

> over you. The analogy was sponsees....to pigeons.

>

> Pat

>

> Either way its still stupid.

Hi Pat

Might be difficult for a top-dog AAer like good old Charlie to

envision a newcomer actually shitting on him.

He feels much bigger and better with the idea of of them shitting on

themselves.

December 14, 2000

fwiw, pigeon is con-man slang from so far back that it was in the dictionary