Re: Spanking

[Guest guest]

I saw a tv newscast entitled, " the spanking debate " . The reporter

stood in front of a picture of a young child who was bruised and

obviously beaten while she interviewed ONE person who said that

spanking was abuse. I was so furious I wrote into the station.

There was no debate on it, they made it sound like anyone who popped

their kid on the butt was worthy of jail time. When I was in

college, my professor and I had a talk about this. He said, " oh

please, if we punished all parents for spanking, the state would be

bankrupt! "

...Spanker, and not guilty about it one bit!

> I thought I would say something about spanking saince i was reading

a post about punishment. This is just what we do and what works for

us. Spanking is used in our home. For those of you who are new we

have 2 boys and a baby girl. Yessenia is a baby and so this does not

apply to her. Greggory will be 7yr this feb and is HF autistic and

Alec just turned 5yrs and is autistic, bp , adhd. Greggory probably

has gotten 1 spanking a year. A swat on the butt for the most part.

Jeff just recently spanked him after Greggory peed in the tub. It was

too hard and over too little and I was very upset. Jeff was too and

felt awful. This is how he was raised and he has to really think

about it to help him not fall into that pattern of hitting your child

for everything. Alec gets spankings probably on a pretty regular

basis. On average I would say he gets 1 a day. Alec gets very manic

and these are the time he gets a good pop on the butt. He will not

settle for anything and this spanking seems to usually bring him back

to reality. It is awful but it works. He does understand spankings.

He is 5 yrs at this point. He will be told to stop doing something or

he will get a spanking and he will stop. (Alec will continue to

confuse me, he doesnt understand much but he understands that!)

Spanking does work for us. But we reserve it for serious problems and

manic situations. Of course when Alec gets manic his safety and

others safety is always an issue. Ok, now I have said it. I am done.

This is not a judgment on anyone. We each do what works for our kids.

> Jacquie H

>

>

[Guest guest]

Matt wants to spank Boone, because he thinks it works. It doesn't work. It

might distract Boone from doing something momentarily, long enough to beat

the crap out of something nearby (usually me), but it doesn't stop whatever

behavior he's been spanked for doing.

Hasn't worked even once. Not ever.

Spanking worked for Dillon for a while but is pretty ineffective now. Not

that he had that many spankings. He used to be a really good kid.

I can probably count on one hand the number of times Amber has been spanked.

Just the suggestion of a spanking was good enough for her.

Sissi

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with you on this one Jacquie. Lyndsey will get

spanked on the butt (a couple of times a year maybe). But Andy

doesn't. Andy doesn't *get* that he has done something wrong. For

example, a couple of weeks ago he bit me on the arm. He has never

bitten anyone before and i was really shocked and upset. I was

crying, and showed him my arm. I said " Look at what Andy did to

Mummy " . No reaction, nothing. My dad is always saying, " All that

boy needs is a good smack on the bum " . I would love to be able to say

to him, " Andy if you don't stop x, y, z... you will get a smack " .

But at this moment in time it has no meaning for him. If he

misbehaves, i will take away the toy/stop the video etc and tell him

that he has to say *sorry*. 9 times out of 10, he will repeat

*sorry*, and i will give him a hug. He is slowly learning the concept

that if he misbehaves, then he'll not get to play with his toy.

Slowly but surely he is getting there.

Ali

[Guest guest]

I think its great that you realize that is a limitation for you. One

thing I use, is for Zach, I swat him one time on the butt-he's

diapered, so I have to swat pretty hard to make it effective. There

was one time when my daughter was small, that I went to do this to

her, and she moved and i accidentally hit her leg instead, leaving

one big red handmark. I felt so bad I cried. I make sure my aim is

better, I hold him so I can't miss. Also, I don't spank

often...making when he does get a swat-hopefully more effective.

Zach just doesn't seem to get it. I'm using more distraction

techniques with him lately, and yes, sometimes just sticking him in

his room. However when I say NO to the really dangerous stuff now,

he at least knows he's done something wrong cuz he'll run the other

way. Doesnt' necessarily stop him from doing it. Sigh, I'm really

at my wits end with him and discipline. My daughter who is 12 now

will get the 'grab your ankles' maybe twice a year. Mostly we use

grounding from the tv, friends, phone, etc. She's got the not-

thinking-before-i-act syndrome pretty bad.

>

> Just wanted to chime in!

>

> I'm one who has to avoid spanking, because I tend to spank as a very

> reactive action, usually when I am VERY angry. Because I know

that's the

> case, I've had to turn to other things like propelling him into his

room and

> shutting the door.

>

> I think it's very important to know your own motivations, and to

not spank

> out of knee-jerk rage. Those of us who tend to do so have the

responsiblity

> to make sure we don't. (and rage was ALWAYS my spanking mindset)

>

> I KNOW that MY spanks don't teach a lesson, they only hurt and

confuse.

>

> Good for all of you who can use spanking as a proper disciplinary

tool!

> Having to remove it from my arsenal (LOL) means sometimes I come up

with

> options that aren't half as effective as I wish they were.

>

> Jacquie

[Guest guest]

OK.

I'll chime in here.

I'm on the other end of this issue.

I do not spank.

I have never spanked either one of my children.

Ever.

I was spanked as a child, spanked for not doing anything wrong, for not

" understanding " . I think the person who was spanking me actually enjoyed it.

I learned survival skills at a very young age, and learned that if I didn't

cry, I wouldn't get spanked anymore. Spanking, IMO, is a way to take out

frustrations on a child because you don't know what else to do. And spanking

raises fear in a child.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have all the answers. I just can not spank my

children.

Now yelling on the other hand.... I was very VERY good at that...Yelled A

LOT when my son was small. I don't yell with Jacqui, because if I do, she

just yells back.

We've also taught Jacqui that it's always " hands off " . No one is allowed to

touch her and that she may protest when someone does. If I " spanked " her,

that would be sending the wrong message.

No judgement here. Just explaining what we do.

Penny

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to chime in!

I'm one who has to avoid spanking, because I tend to spank as a very

reactive action, usually when I am VERY angry. Because I know that's the

case, I've had to turn to other things like propelling him into his room and

shutting the door.

I think it's very important to know your own motivations, and to not spank

out of knee-jerk rage. Those of us who tend to do so have the responsiblity

to make sure we don't. (and rage was ALWAYS my spanking mindset)

I KNOW that MY spanks don't teach a lesson, they only hurt and confuse.

Good for all of you who can use spanking as a proper disciplinary tool!

Having to remove it from my arsenal (LOL) means sometimes I come up with

options that aren't half as effective as I wish they were.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

Nicely put, ellen

Penny :-D

>>>>>>>>>>>>

Anyway, I agree that not all spanking is abuse, and yes I do also agree that

it CAN be taken too far and that as parents of very frustrating children

(who often have a high pain threshold) we have to make SURE we don't take it

too far.

ellen

[Guest guest]

Another post well put!

Thank you Jacquie..

I hope mine came across ok.

Penny

Re: Re: Spanking

Just wanted to chime in!

I'm one who has to avoid spanking, because I tend to spank as a very

reactive action, usually when I am VERY angry. Because I know that's the

case, I've had to turn to other things like propelling him into his room and

shutting the door.

I think it's very important to know your own motivations, and to not spank

out of knee-jerk rage. Those of us who tend to do so have the responsiblity

to make sure we don't. (and rage was ALWAYS my spanking mindset)

I KNOW that MY spanks don't teach a lesson, they only hurt and confuse.

Good for all of you who can use spanking as a proper disciplinary tool!

Having to remove it from my arsenal (LOL) means sometimes I come up with

options that aren't half as effective as I wish they were.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

> I'm one who has to avoid spanking, because I tend to spank as a very reactive

action, usually when I am VERY angry. Because I know that's the case, I've had

to turn to other things like propelling him into his room and shutting the door.

I think it's very important to know your own motivations, and to not spank out

of knee-jerk rage. Those of us who tend to do so have the responsiblity to make

sure we don't. (and rage was ALWAYS my spanking mindset)

I KNOW that MY spanks don't teach a lesson, they only hurt and confuse.

Good for all of you who can use spanking as a proper disciplinary tool! Having

to remove it from my arsenal (LOL) means sometimes I come up with options that

aren't half as effective as I wish they were.

Jacquie <

i'm SO glad i'm not the only one who has that attitude. when mike and i were

having those arguments about spanking, i tried explaining this exact thing to

him and he couldn't quite grasp what i was saying. i've also tried explaining it

to my therapist who also doesn't quite understand. it's not that they're telling

me to beat my kids, but it's hard to tell them that that's what would end up

happening.

" Something important to remember...we'll always be who we are. " - Mr.

[Guest guest]

Just in case it was my comment about my beliefs in spanking and my

experience with that started this thread, I apologize. I didn't mean

to make anyone feel defensive about their own beliefs. I was spanked as a

child, too, with no ill effects. I just know from an incidence with my

younger sister that I personally can't intentionally inflict any type of

pain on another and I know that my kids don't get it.

Sue, who's very sorry if she started this topic.

[Guest guest]

If it was you who started the topic, I don't think you should be sorry!

I think it's been a VERY good discussion! I don't think anyone has become

defensive!!

Penny :-D

Re: Re: Spanking

Just in case it was my comment about my beliefs in spanking and my

experience with that started this thread, I apologize. I didn't mean

to make anyone feel defensive about their own beliefs. I was spanked as a

child, too, with no ill effects. I just know from an incidence with my

younger sister that I personally can't intentionally inflict any type of

pain on another and I know that my kids don't get it.

Sue, who's very sorry if she started this topic.

[Guest guest]

> it's not that they're telling me to beat my kids, but it's hard to tell

them that that's what would end up happening.

>

BINGO!

As grew older, and I would become more angry at him for whatever, it

became more difficult to STOP spanking after just one or two whacks on the

butt. I was finding myself WANTING to hurt him. When I'd step back and

away from him, and see him so afraid, I knew that this just couldn't go on.

I felt sick and ashamed. And frightened. I don't think I ever did cross

the line, but more and more often I was barrelling towards it full tilt.

Now when I feel that angry at him, I lock the doors, send him to one floor

of the house, and me to the other and I wait it out.

I discovered that for me, the line between discipline and assault is very

fine indeed.

Philosophically, I am not opposed to spanking for other families. But for

me, it is just too dangerous.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

Sue,

to be honest it was when I read something you wrote. But I wasn't upset in the

slightest about it. I was just thinking about it. I didnt feel I had to

defend myself. I just thought with the talk about disipline I would say that

spanking does work for us in certain cases. Anyway, I think everyone has been

quite civil when talking about it. Jacquie can tell me if I am wrong.

Jacquie H

Re: Re: Spanking

Just in case it was my comment about my beliefs in spanking and my

experience with that started this thread, I apologize. I didn't mean

to make anyone feel defensive about their own beliefs. I was spanked as a

child, too, with no ill effects. I just know from an incidence with my

younger sister that I personally can't intentionally inflict any type of

pain on another and I know that my kids don't get it.

Sue, who's very sorry if she started this topic.

[Guest guest]

Oh gosh no, my no means am I saying anyone is right or wrong in the

way they chose...whatever works for them!! as long as no one is

being abused of course!

> Just in case it was my comment about my beliefs in spanking and my

> experience with that started this thread, I apologize. I

didn't mean

> to make anyone feel defensive about their own beliefs. I was

spanked as a

> child, too, with no ill effects. I just know from an incidence

with my

> younger sister that I personally can't intentionally inflict any

type of

> pain on another and I know that my kids don't get it.

> Sue, who's very sorry if she started this topic.

[Guest guest]

Both my husband and I were raised in homes where spanking was used and

we both continue to use it in our own family. In my family spanking was

done appropriately, in his family it wasn't done appropriately very

often. The interesting thing is that we both feel that it helped us to

grow up and to learn things and to respect our parents' authority and we

both knew we would spank on occasion when we had children. We do try to

model it on the example my parents set instead of the one his parents set.

In my family I can not remember a single incident of being spanked in

anger and I'm quite sure I was never bruised. Usually the spanking came

after an explanation and a warning that it was going to happen. It was

very deliberate and controlled. I can remember my Mom saying " I'm going

to have to give you a spanking to help you remember that (whatever type

of behavior) is not allowed. Next time I hope you can remember this

spanking so you will remember not to (fight, sass back, etc, etc.) "

My Dad's spankings were pretty rare, but you remembered it! What always

hurt me more was not the physical pain of the spanking but knowing I had

disappointed my father. To this day all three of us kids (who are quite

different from each other) have great relationships with both of our

parents and with each other. We also all three of us believe in

spanking our children if it is called for.

With Jake, we started spanking very young, before he was even a year

old. However the spankings were really more of a slap on the hand if he

was throwing food (after being continually warned not to) or something

like that. We always looked him in the eye and sternly spoke to him so

that he would see that this behavior was unacceptable even if he didn't

understand our words. Sometimes I would give him a pinch or something

if I thought the spanking wouldn't be effective because of diapers and

clothing, but I always try very hard not to do anything that would leave

a permanent mark. My goal isn't to really hurt him, but to help him

understand the chain of command and that he has to learn who has to obey

whom. With Jake it's worked pretty well. I think he is the type of

child who can learn from spankings and the fact that he is pretty high

functioning is a huge part of that I'm sure. I don't believe spanking

is good for every child. (or every parent)

Another philosophy I hold to is that children are not equal to adults in

our household. So I don't consider spanking the same as " hitting " as

many others do. I've heard the argument that you can't teach a child

not to hit by hitting him. However in my own family growing up and in

with my son, I've not seen that to be true. I don't think spanking is

hitting, I think it is spanking. Spanking is a negative reinforcement

for negative behavior. My brother and sister and I didn't get confused

between us hitting each other and being spanked. We learned. Jake is

learning too. Now usually a warning of a spanking is enough to help him

get control of himself. One time a Mom at La Leche League (who the

majority of members definitely do not think spanking is Ok in any form)

said, " He's not obeying you because he wants to, he's obeying you

because he's afraid of getting a spanking " ...... ummm.... I don't get

this one. If any child obeys because they don't want to get sent to

their room or put in time out, or not receive some reward, or have some

privilege taken away, then does that make the obedience any less

desired? I know there were plenty of times I behaved because I didn't

want to get a spanking, but it didn't make me hate my parents or grow up

resentful of their authority over me. It had the opposite affect on me.

With all that said, I think a parent needs a lot more in his repertoire

than spanking. I try to limit it to times that I can't find an

alternative, effective means of discipline. I also try never to forget

that discipline means to teach or train, not just to punish.

Well, I guess that's enough for my 2 cents worth! :-)

~ Karin

[Guest guest]

I agree. I love hearing all the viewpoints.

Jacquie H

Re: Re: Spanking

Just in case it was my comment about my beliefs in spanking and my

experience with that started this thread, I apologize. I didn't mean

to make anyone feel defensive about their own beliefs. I was spanked as a

child, too, with no ill effects. I just know from an incidence with my

younger sister that I personally can't intentionally inflict any type of

pain on another and I know that my kids don't get it.

Sue, who's very sorry if she started this topic.

[Guest guest]

I guess I was just worried that I made someone feel bad or wrong about their

own beliefs.

Sue

Re: Re: Spanking

>

>

> Just in case it was my comment about my beliefs in spanking and my

> experience with that started this thread, I apologize. I didn't

mean

> to make anyone feel defensive about their own beliefs. I was spanked as

a

> child, too, with no ill effects. I just know from an incidence with my

> younger sister that I personally can't intentionally inflict any type of

> pain on another and I know that my kids don't get it.

> Sue, who's very sorry if she started this topic.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Naw! My feelings dont get bruised easily. You were fine. I was just thinking

outloud. lol

Jacquie H

Re: Re: Spanking

>

>

> Just in case it was my comment about my beliefs in spanking and my

> experience with that started this thread, I apologize. I didn't

mean

> to make anyone feel defensive about their own beliefs. I was spanked as

a

> child, too, with no ill effects. I just know from an incidence with my

> younger sister that I personally can't intentionally inflict any type of

> pain on another and I know that my kids don't get it.

> Sue, who's very sorry if she started this topic.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jacquie H, it seems to work for us too. When we started spanking

that is when Mark's behaviors drasically improved. Even though it is

against what many people and experts believe in everyone has to use

what works for them. We don't spank hard, just a pat on the butt.

But it gets his attention. I think sometimes it hurts his feelings

more than anything.

But I am amazed how much it has changed Mark. He respects us more

now, and he isn't afraid of us at all! After he gets spanked we tell

him we love him and explain what he did wrong. And usually right

after he is cuddling with us on the couch. Unless he did something

really bad and he also gets sent to his room!

But I know what your saying because it does work for some kids,

others it doesn't. Every kid is different.

Tina W.

[Guest guest]

Actually, this is the most civil, respectable spanking conversation I've

ever been on on any list. It's great to read different viewpoints. I

didn't think anyone was defensive at all, I know I certainly wasn't. I was

just explaining my viewpoint. Nobody accusing or belittling anybody for

their choices. AWESOME!! :-)

ellen

Re: Re: Spanking

I guess I was just worried that I made someone feel bad or wrong about

their

own beliefs.

Sue

Re: Re: Spanking

>

>

> Just in case it was my comment about my beliefs in spanking and my

> experience with that started this thread, I apologize. I

didn't

mean

> to make anyone feel defensive about their own beliefs. I was spanked

as

a

> child, too, with no ill effects. I just know from an incidence with

my

> younger sister that I personally can't intentionally inflict any type

of

> pain on another and I know that my kids don't get it.

> Sue, who's very sorry if she started this topic.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thats why I love this group!!!!

Jacquie H

Re: Re: Spanking

>

>

> Just in case it was my comment about my beliefs in spanking and my

> experience with that started this thread, I apologize. I

didn't

mean

> to make anyone feel defensive about their own beliefs. I was spanked

as

a

> child, too, with no ill effects. I just know from an incidence with

my

> younger sister that I personally can't intentionally inflict any type

of

> pain on another and I know that my kids don't get it.

> Sue, who's very sorry if she started this topic.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Amen to knowing our limitations!!!! This is why Jeff spanks less oten than I do.

He has a hard time knowing " how " to spank.

Jacquie H

Re: Re: Spanking

> I'm one who has to avoid spanking, because I tend to spank as a very

reactive action, usually when I am VERY angry. Because I know that's the case,

I've had to turn to other things like propelling him into his room and shutting

the door.

I think it's very important to know your own motivations, and to not spank out

of knee-jerk rage. Those of us who tend to do so have the responsiblity to make

sure we don't. (and rage was ALWAYS my spanking mindset)

I KNOW that MY spanks don't teach a lesson, they only hurt and confuse.

Good for all of you who can use spanking as a proper disciplinary tool! Having

to remove it from my arsenal (LOL) means sometimes I come up with options that

aren't half as effective as I wish they were.

Jacquie <

i'm SO glad i'm not the only one who has that attitude. when mike and i were

having those arguments about spanking, i tried explaining this exact thing to

him and he couldn't quite grasp what i was saying. i've also tried explaining it

to my therapist who also doesn't quite understand. it's not that they're telling

me to beat my kids, but it's hard to tell them that that's what would end up

happening.

" Something important to remember...we'll always be who we are. " - Mr.

[Guest guest]

> " Andy if you don't stop x, y, z... you will get a smack " .

But at this moment in time it has no meaning for him. <

sometimes i will actually threaten kailey with a spank and it ALWAYS backfires.

actually, most punishments backfire with her. i'll say " kailey, if you don't

stop, you'll get a spanking, do you want that? " and she inevitably will say yes.

i can't imagine she REALLY wants to be spanked, but maybe she knows if she

agrees with the punishment, i won't do it? hmmm

then again, she does it when we're out too, i'll say " if you don't knock it off,

we're going home, do you want that? " and very often she'll say yes and i know

that she really DOES want to go home. ugh, i totally don't get it :-/

" Something important to remember...we'll always be who we are. " - Mr.

[Guest guest]

> Just in case it was my comment about my beliefs in spanking and my

> experience with that started this thread, I apologize. I didn't

mean

> to make anyone feel defensive about their own beliefs.

Sue, I've been taking part in this thread AND watching it very carefully,

and there's nothing bad going on here. Everyone is talking respectfully and

without judgement.

Dont worry about it!

Jacquie

-moderator chick

[Guest guest]

> Thats why I love this group!!!!

> Jacquie H

Yes. I am VERY proud of everyone!

Jacquie