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Hi & Ellen:

Sorry y'all feel this way. I do want to correct a few misunderstandings and

rumors that are spreading just about as fast as that virus, that are simply not

true.

Before getting right down to the issue I wanted to point out that the

ribbon, in my opinion, always stood for autism awareness and not just the " our

children with autism " . It believe hat it was meant to include adults on the

spectrum, parents, brothers, sisters and anyone in the ASD Community. Also, the

legal work was all done for free--we wouldn't spend money on this. Sorry to be

knit-picky, just wanted to clarify a few points.

Now as to the intent behind the trademark and the other issues that folks

have e-mailed me about today. It was not to make money or charge anyone a

dollar to use it, it was to protect the metallic pin logo and keep it associated

with autism awareness.

First, it is my understanding that no one will be charged for the use of the

autism awareness ribbon or have to pay a royalty back to ASA.

ASA trademarked the ribbon to prevent a few other groups from using it that

had no connection to the autism community. Basically followed the same course

the Breast Cancer Foundation (Pink Ribbon) and some other groups (silver ribbon,

black and white ribbon, red ribbon--can't remember what they're about??) and the

yellow ribbon folks have done to ensure that their ribbons have a universal

meaning when it is seen. All of these other ribbons are trademarked. I saw

that the puzzle piece ribbon was being used by some " Goth folks " to represent

the puzzles of the modern day universe or something like that when I was in

Atlanta back in 2000 and again in San Francisco in June 2001. Then I saw the

same ribbon being used by a gay pride group in Dallas last year as well. At

that time I realized there was an issue with the ribbons meaning, but didn't

think much about it at that time.

ly, I didn't give it a second thought when I heard that our Executive

Director began the trademark process back in 2002 when the reasons for doing

so--protecting it's meaning--were presented to the ASA Board. This action

didn't require board approval. I also remember seeing the original designs that

were done in 1983 (I think--not really sure about that anymore however since

have received 4 e-mails today alone from 4 separate folks who all say that the

ribbon was their idea, or the can prove they know who designed it--I honestly

don't know who drew the puzzle pieces in a metal ribbon the first time aside

from the puzzle piece boy--I have met the couple that did that back in the

1970's--granted, it's not the metallic ribbon per se) and re-circulated at board

meetings in 1996, 1998 and 1999 and being outraged that ASA as talking about

logos, rather than legislation. My thoughts at that time were--it's a frickin

logo--my twins can't speak--why in the hell are we even talking about something

like this that will not help my sons, other children, adult's on the spectrum

facing life and death issues and families with real problems???? Actually, I

may still feel that way.

The puzzle piece ribbon was not a big issue in my humble opinion back in

1996, 1998, 1999 or 2002. Heck, sure could be wrong about that, but that's just

me.

Now, folks are raising some valid points and all are certainly have the

right to express them. I don't duck under desks, that is exactly what drug

companies and some in Congress want us to do -- fight amongst ourselves and, go

away. Also, I am very sorry that some of my friends feel as though I have done

nothing in 5-6 years of volunteer service on ASA's board. I guess I should have

done more. I'm trying. Heck nearly everyone on the ASA board, Lee Grossman,

Rick Rollens, Ben Dorman, Elaine Harvey, Shore, Ruth Elaine Hane, myself

and so on are just parent volunteers trying to do the best we can.

Here is some background about why I feel this way, without meaning to be

disrespectful of anyone's viewpoint on the ribbon matter.

Less than two weeks ago a Kline lawyer said, " you folks in the autism

world will never get on the same page, hell you are always fighting amongst

yourselves over what ASA does or fails to do, who said what to whom, logos,

ribbons (yes he said " ribbons " the same day someone on another list made the

first complaint about it, that I am aware of, he knew about it!!), letterheads

and so on. We don't have anything to fear from such an fractured group. "

Some background---I threatened him first by saying " your day is coming " or

something like that and the above was his response. Heck, after this little SOB

said that, I was at a loss for words since his statement was, for the most part,

accurate. My only inarticulate response was to blurt out my old-stand by, " F___

you " . I only say that when I can't come up with a factual reply, that's one of

my emotional faults. His reply to that was, " you know I'm right and it's

killing you. " ... " Even Jesus himself couldn't unify you autism folks, so you

sure can't do it. Who do you think you are? " I just smiled and said, " I am Ben

& Joe's dad, don't ever forget that. We may fight amongst ourselves a lot, but

we love each other like brothers and sisters " . He smirked, said " sure " , and

left the conference room. That really stuck with me and that point has

frustrated me ever since the twins were diagnosed and I got involved in the

autism community, first with ARK, the ASA and UA.

This morning when I started getting nasty e-mails about ASA trademarking the

ribbon, I was taken right back to what this guy said less than two weeks ago.

These SOB's read everything we say to each other on so many of the

listserves. They seem to know our every move before that move is made.

Unfortunately, we are always playing right into their hands--every dog-gone day

it seems.

Now, I am certainly not trying to ignore complaints about the trademark

issue or stop people from expressing their views. We all need to do that. I am

just trying to stay focused on the big picture--IDEA, Adult Services, Funding

for biomedical and applied research, education, restraint issues and abuses and

so on.

If this becomes a big issue that further weakens our collective strength on

the Hill and in Courtrooms, then that is truly a shame. If a gay pride group in

Dallas continues to use the puzzle ribbon, or that " Goth " group in Atlanta or

San Francisco uses it and it becomes associated with them rather than autism,

that too would be a shame. I am just more focused on other issues now and

trying the best I can.

Sorry this was long and rather rambling. I was working from home today and

needed to do 3 vaccine hearings by phone (just finished the last one which was

at 4:30 EST), then do a draft IDEA--S 1248 letter to some Senate HELP folks, two

letters to folks who are going to co-sponsor HR 1700, provide an opinion on

" 's Law " and the misuse of aversives, and... a is at Wal-Mart and Ben

is having a meltdown--he walked in from school with a helmet on (been hitting

himself again and we're really having problems with his program.) Tense day--I

hope I ran the spell checker and this makes some sense!!

My best.

Peacefully,

Jeff Sell

Z. Sell, P.C.

4309 Yoakum Blvd.

2nd Floor

Houston, Texas 77006

713-654-7776

713-654-7789 (fax)

832-731-3145 (cell)

JZSell@...

www.JZSLAW.com

ASA's application to trademark the Autism

Awareness Ribbon/Image

Clarification about the ASA's trademark proceedings concerning the " Autism

Awareness Puzzlepiece Ribbon "

There was an e-mail was forwarded by me, Guppy, - from another

person who posted to my Texas Autism Advocacy list concerned about a

trademark application pending by the ASA to trademark the autism awareness

ribbon. From what I personally know, the ASA is dropping their puzzle boy

logo - and instead applying to trademark the " Puzzlepiece Awareness Ribbon "

as their sole logo. That would mean that anyone USING the awareness loop

ribbon - would have to get the ASA's permission, or pay them a fee, or

whatever..... Which is totally bonkers in my opinion. That awareness

ribbon is used by the Autism Community at large - and should not be limited

to, or trademarked by, the ASA.

I personally am wondering how much it is costing the ASA in attorney fee's

to pursue this ridiculous venture. Couldn't that money, time, and effort,

be put into actually having someone in the ASA answer the phone when parents

call desparate for help???????????

Anyone can still use that puzzlepiece fabric in other ways - but I believe

that to use it as an awareness ribbon - with that loop - we would have to

get ASA's permission...

That is my understanding - from things I have read and from things that have

been passed on to me.

Either way - it just makes no sense. What happened to unity?

Please seek clarification from the ASA --- and parents, please ask the

Trademark office to not allow them to trademark that Awareness Ribbon as

theirs exclusively --- that ribbon represents only one thing

exclusively........

OUR CHILDREN WITH AUTISM........

not the ASA.

~~ Guppy

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Posted
Posted

Hi & Ellen:

Sorry y'all feel this way. I do want to correct a few misunderstandings and

rumors that are spreading just about as fast as that virus, that are simply not

true.

Before getting right down to the issue I wanted to point out that the

ribbon, in my opinion, always stood for autism awareness and not just the " our

children with autism " . It believe hat it was meant to include adults on the

spectrum, parents, brothers, sisters and anyone in the ASD Community. Also, the

legal work was all done for free--we wouldn't spend money on this. Sorry to be

knit-picky, just wanted to clarify a few points.

Now as to the intent behind the trademark and the other issues that folks

have e-mailed me about today. It was not to make money or charge anyone a

dollar to use it, it was to protect the metallic pin logo and keep it associated

with autism awareness.

First, it is my understanding that no one will be charged for the use of the

autism awareness ribbon or have to pay a royalty back to ASA.

ASA trademarked the ribbon to prevent a few other groups from using it that

had no connection to the autism community. Basically followed the same course

the Breast Cancer Foundation (Pink Ribbon) and some other groups (silver ribbon,

black and white ribbon, red ribbon--can't remember what they're about??) and the

yellow ribbon folks have done to ensure that their ribbons have a universal

meaning when it is seen. All of these other ribbons are trademarked. I saw

that the puzzle piece ribbon was being used by some " Goth folks " to represent

the puzzles of the modern day universe or something like that when I was in

Atlanta back in 2000 and again in San Francisco in June 2001. Then I saw the

same ribbon being used by a gay pride group in Dallas last year as well. At

that time I realized there was an issue with the ribbons meaning, but didn't

think much about it at that time.

ly, I didn't give it a second thought when I heard that our Executive

Director began the trademark process back in 2002 when the reasons for doing

so--protecting it's meaning--were presented to the ASA Board. This action

didn't require board approval. I also remember seeing the original designs that

were done in 1983 (I think--not really sure about that anymore however since

have received 4 e-mails today alone from 4 separate folks who all say that the

ribbon was their idea, or the can prove they know who designed it--I honestly

don't know who drew the puzzle pieces in a metal ribbon the first time aside

from the puzzle piece boy--I have met the couple that did that back in the

1970's--granted, it's not the metallic ribbon per se) and re-circulated at board

meetings in 1996, 1998 and 1999 and being outraged that ASA as talking about

logos, rather than legislation. My thoughts at that time were--it's a frickin

logo--my twins can't speak--why in the hell are we even talking about something

like this that will not help my sons, other children, adult's on the spectrum

facing life and death issues and families with real problems???? Actually, I

may still feel that way.

The puzzle piece ribbon was not a big issue in my humble opinion back in

1996, 1998, 1999 or 2002. Heck, sure could be wrong about that, but that's just

me.

Now, folks are raising some valid points and all are certainly have the

right to express them. I don't duck under desks, that is exactly what drug

companies and some in Congress want us to do -- fight amongst ourselves and, go

away. Also, I am very sorry that some of my friends feel as though I have done

nothing in 5-6 years of volunteer service on ASA's board. I guess I should have

done more. I'm trying. Heck nearly everyone on the ASA board, Lee Grossman,

Rick Rollens, Ben Dorman, Elaine Harvey, Shore, Ruth Elaine Hane, myself

and so on are just parent volunteers trying to do the best we can.

Here is some background about why I feel this way, without meaning to be

disrespectful of anyone's viewpoint on the ribbon matter.

Less than two weeks ago a Kline lawyer said, " you folks in the autism

world will never get on the same page, hell you are always fighting amongst

yourselves over what ASA does or fails to do, who said what to whom, logos,

ribbons (yes he said " ribbons " the same day someone on another list made the

first complaint about it, that I am aware of, he knew about it!!), letterheads

and so on. We don't have anything to fear from such an fractured group. "

Some background---I threatened him first by saying " your day is coming " or

something like that and the above was his response. Heck, after this little SOB

said that, I was at a loss for words since his statement was, for the most part,

accurate. My only inarticulate response was to blurt out my old-stand by, " F___

you " . I only say that when I can't come up with a factual reply, that's one of

my emotional faults. His reply to that was, " you know I'm right and it's

killing you. " ... " Even Jesus himself couldn't unify you autism folks, so you

sure can't do it. Who do you think you are? " I just smiled and said, " I am Ben

& Joe's dad, don't ever forget that. We may fight amongst ourselves a lot, but

we love each other like brothers and sisters " . He smirked, said " sure " , and

left the conference room. That really stuck with me and that point has

frustrated me ever since the twins were diagnosed and I got involved in the

autism community, first with ARK, the ASA and UA.

This morning when I started getting nasty e-mails about ASA trademarking the

ribbon, I was taken right back to what this guy said less than two weeks ago.

These SOB's read everything we say to each other on so many of the

listserves. They seem to know our every move before that move is made.

Unfortunately, we are always playing right into their hands--every dog-gone day

it seems.

Now, I am certainly not trying to ignore complaints about the trademark

issue or stop people from expressing their views. We all need to do that. I am

just trying to stay focused on the big picture--IDEA, Adult Services, Funding

for biomedical and applied research, education, restraint issues and abuses and

so on.

If this becomes a big issue that further weakens our collective strength on

the Hill and in Courtrooms, then that is truly a shame. If a gay pride group in

Dallas continues to use the puzzle ribbon, or that " Goth " group in Atlanta or

San Francisco uses it and it becomes associated with them rather than autism,

that too would be a shame. I am just more focused on other issues now and

trying the best I can.

Sorry this was long and rather rambling. I was working from home today and

needed to do 3 vaccine hearings by phone (just finished the last one which was

at 4:30 EST), then do a draft IDEA--S 1248 letter to some Senate HELP folks, two

letters to folks who are going to co-sponsor HR 1700, provide an opinion on

" 's Law " and the misuse of aversives, and... a is at Wal-Mart and Ben

is having a meltdown--he walked in from school with a helmet on (been hitting

himself again and we're really having problems with his program.) Tense day--I

hope I ran the spell checker and this makes some sense!!

My best.

Peacefully,

Jeff Sell

Z. Sell, P.C.

4309 Yoakum Blvd.

2nd Floor

Houston, Texas 77006

713-654-7776

713-654-7789 (fax)

832-731-3145 (cell)

JZSell@...

www.JZSLAW.com

ASA's application to trademark the Autism

Awareness Ribbon/Image

Clarification about the ASA's trademark proceedings concerning the " Autism

Awareness Puzzlepiece Ribbon "

There was an e-mail was forwarded by me, Guppy, - from another

person who posted to my Texas Autism Advocacy list concerned about a

trademark application pending by the ASA to trademark the autism awareness

ribbon. From what I personally know, the ASA is dropping their puzzle boy

logo - and instead applying to trademark the " Puzzlepiece Awareness Ribbon "

as their sole logo. That would mean that anyone USING the awareness loop

ribbon - would have to get the ASA's permission, or pay them a fee, or

whatever..... Which is totally bonkers in my opinion. That awareness

ribbon is used by the Autism Community at large - and should not be limited

to, or trademarked by, the ASA.

I personally am wondering how much it is costing the ASA in attorney fee's

to pursue this ridiculous venture. Couldn't that money, time, and effort,

be put into actually having someone in the ASA answer the phone when parents

call desparate for help???????????

Anyone can still use that puzzlepiece fabric in other ways - but I believe

that to use it as an awareness ribbon - with that loop - we would have to

get ASA's permission...

That is my understanding - from things I have read and from things that have

been passed on to me.

Either way - it just makes no sense. What happened to unity?

Please seek clarification from the ASA --- and parents, please ask the

Trademark office to not allow them to trademark that Awareness Ribbon as

theirs exclusively --- that ribbon represents only one thing

exclusively........

OUR CHILDREN WITH AUTISM........

not the ASA.

~~ Guppy

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Hi Jeff and group,

Since life is so busy lately, I don't have much time to post, but I

always read. Just a word or two from me today. THANKS A LOT for

all you do. I happen to love my metal puzzle pin and am thrilled to

pay for it and to give them to people for awareness and support. I

don't care who owns the right or who is making a few cents off it--

unless it is those vaccine people, ha--and I trust ASA. I do want

it representing autism and the plight of our children.

I guess I am a flower child. In reading your post, which is very

accurate I might say, I am reminded of my relationship with my

brother..... the black sheep. He might annoy me, harass me, pick

fights with me, compete with me, and talk my ear off BUT NO ONE

better mess with him or they would have me to answer to. So even

though some parents might annoy each other and have disagreements

about policy, we would support and fight for them to the end. Why?

Because we are family. Bound by our children. Yes, joined by the

one thing we hold most dear.

So Jeff, I appreciate what you and all the others do and of course

a and the other families and family members for making up for

the time given to all the others. Thanks for all those free

services too ;~>

I believe in affirmations so, " I appreciate what you all are doing

and I think this is a wise course of action. "

Theresa in SA

------------------------------------------------

> Less than two weeks ago a Kline lawyer said, " you folks

in the autism world will never get on the same page, hell you are

always fighting amongst yourselves over what ASA does or fails to

do, who said what to whom, logos, ribbons (yes he said " ribbons " the

same day someone on another list made the first complaint about it,

that I am aware of, he knew about it!!), letterheads and so on. We

don't have anything to fear from such an fractured group. "

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Posted
Posted

Hi Jeff and group,

Since life is so busy lately, I don't have much time to post, but I

always read. Just a word or two from me today. THANKS A LOT for

all you do. I happen to love my metal puzzle pin and am thrilled to

pay for it and to give them to people for awareness and support. I

don't care who owns the right or who is making a few cents off it--

unless it is those vaccine people, ha--and I trust ASA. I do want

it representing autism and the plight of our children.

I guess I am a flower child. In reading your post, which is very

accurate I might say, I am reminded of my relationship with my

brother..... the black sheep. He might annoy me, harass me, pick

fights with me, compete with me, and talk my ear off BUT NO ONE

better mess with him or they would have me to answer to. So even

though some parents might annoy each other and have disagreements

about policy, we would support and fight for them to the end. Why?

Because we are family. Bound by our children. Yes, joined by the

one thing we hold most dear.

So Jeff, I appreciate what you and all the others do and of course

a and the other families and family members for making up for

the time given to all the others. Thanks for all those free

services too ;~>

I believe in affirmations so, " I appreciate what you all are doing

and I think this is a wise course of action. "

Theresa in SA

------------------------------------------------

> Less than two weeks ago a Kline lawyer said, " you folks

in the autism world will never get on the same page, hell you are

always fighting amongst yourselves over what ASA does or fails to

do, who said what to whom, logos, ribbons (yes he said " ribbons " the

same day someone on another list made the first complaint about it,

that I am aware of, he knew about it!!), letterheads and so on. We

don't have anything to fear from such an fractured group. "

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Posted
Posted

Jeff, you're the best and do so much for all of us that goes

unrecognized and unappreciated! Your long post gave me a much-

needed laugh tonight. You make a's being at Wal-Mart sound like

she's at the spa (which I'm sure she deserves!!!!)

Kim

> Hi & Ellen:

> Sorry y'all feel this way. I do want to correct a few

misunderstandings and rumors that are spreading just about as fast

as that virus, that are simply not true.

> Before getting right down to the issue I wanted to point out

that the ribbon, in my opinion, always stood for autism awareness

and not just the " our children with autism " . It believe hat it was

meant to include adults on the spectrum, parents, brothers, sisters

and anyone in the ASD Community. Also, the legal work was all done

for free--we wouldn't spend money on this. Sorry to be knit-picky,

just wanted to clarify a few points.

> Now as to the intent behind the trademark and the other issues

that folks have e-mailed me about today. It was not to make money

or charge anyone a dollar to use it, it was to protect the metallic

pin logo and keep it associated with autism awareness.

> First, it is my understanding that no one will be charged for

the use of the autism awareness ribbon or have to pay a royalty back

to ASA.

> ASA trademarked the ribbon to prevent a few other groups from

using it that had no connection to the autism community. Basically

followed the same course the Breast Cancer Foundation (Pink Ribbon)

and some other groups (silver ribbon, black and white ribbon, red

ribbon--can't remember what they're about??) and the yellow ribbon

folks have done to ensure that their ribbons have a universal

meaning when it is seen. All of these other ribbons are

trademarked. I saw that the puzzle piece ribbon was being used by

some " Goth folks " to represent the puzzles of the modern day

universe or something like that when I was in Atlanta back in 2000

and again in San Francisco in June 2001. Then I saw the same ribbon

being used by a gay pride group in Dallas last year as well. At

that time I realized there was an issue with the ribbons meaning,

but didn't think much about it at that time.

> ly, I didn't give it a second thought when I heard that

our Executive Director began the trademark process back in 2002 when

the reasons for doing so--protecting it's meaning--were presented to

the ASA Board. This action didn't require board approval. I also

remember seeing the original designs that were done in 1983 (I think-

-not really sure about that anymore however since have received 4 e-

mails today alone from 4 separate folks who all say that the ribbon

was their idea, or the can prove they know who designed it--I

honestly don't know who drew the puzzle pieces in a metal ribbon the

first time aside from the puzzle piece boy--I have met the couple

that did that back in the 1970's--granted, it's not the metallic

ribbon per se) and re-circulated at board meetings in 1996, 1998 and

1999 and being outraged that ASA as talking about logos, rather than

legislation. My thoughts at that time were--it's a frickin logo--my

twins can't speak--why in the hell are we even talking about

something like this that will not help my sons, other children,

adult's on the spectrum facing life and death issues and families

with real problems???? Actually, I may still feel that way.

> The puzzle piece ribbon was not a big issue in my humble

opinion back in 1996, 1998, 1999 or 2002. Heck, sure could be wrong

about that, but that's just me.

> Now, folks are raising some valid points and all are certainly

have the right to express them. I don't duck under desks, that is

exactly what drug companies and some in Congress want us to do --

fight amongst ourselves and, go away. Also, I am very sorry that

some of my friends feel as though I have done nothing in 5-6 years

of volunteer service on ASA's board. I guess I should have done

more. I'm trying. Heck nearly everyone on the ASA board, Lee

Grossman, Rick Rollens, Ben Dorman, Elaine Harvey, Shore,

Ruth Elaine Hane, myself and so on are just parent volunteers trying

to do the best we can.

> Here is some background about why I feel this way, without

meaning to be disrespectful of anyone's viewpoint on the ribbon

matter.

> Less than two weeks ago a Kline lawyer said, " you folks

in the autism world will never get on the same page, hell you are

always fighting amongst yourselves over what ASA does or fails to

do, who said what to whom, logos, ribbons (yes he said " ribbons " the

same day someone on another list made the first complaint about it,

that I am aware of, he knew about it!!), letterheads and so on. We

don't have anything to fear from such an fractured group. "

> Some background---I threatened him first by saying " your day

is coming " or something like that and the above was his response.

Heck, after this little SOB said that, I was at a loss for words

since his statement was, for the most part, accurate. My only

inarticulate response was to blurt out my old-stand by, " F___

you " . I only say that when I can't come up with a factual reply,

that's one of my emotional faults. His reply to that was, " you know

I'm right and it's killing you. " ... " Even Jesus himself couldn't

unify you autism folks, so you sure can't do it. Who do you think

you are? " I just smiled and said, " I am Ben & Joe's dad, don't ever

forget that. We may fight amongst ourselves a lot, but we love each

other like brothers and sisters " . He smirked, said " sure " , and left

the conference room. That really stuck with me and that point has

frustrated me ever since the twins were diagnosed and I got involved

in the autism community, first with ARK, the ASA and UA.

> This morning when I started getting nasty e-mails about ASA

trademarking the ribbon, I was taken right back to what this guy

said less than two weeks ago.

> These SOB's read everything we say to each other on so many of

the listserves. They seem to know our every move before that move

is made. Unfortunately, we are always playing right into their

hands--every dog-gone day it seems.

> Now, I am certainly not trying to ignore complaints about the

trademark issue or stop people from expressing their views. We all

need to do that. I am just trying to stay focused on the big

picture--IDEA, Adult Services, Funding for biomedical and applied

research, education, restraint issues and abuses and so on.

> If this becomes a big issue that further weakens our

collective strength on the Hill and in Courtrooms, then that is

truly a shame. If a gay pride group in Dallas continues to use the

puzzle ribbon, or that " Goth " group in Atlanta or San Francisco uses

it and it becomes associated with them rather than autism, that too

would be a shame. I am just more focused on other issues now and

trying the best I can.

> Sorry this was long and rather rambling. I was working from

home today and needed to do 3 vaccine hearings by phone (just

finished the last one which was at 4:30 EST), then do a draft IDEA--

S 1248 letter to some Senate HELP folks, two letters to folks who

are going to co-sponsor HR 1700, provide an opinion on " 's

Law " and the misuse of aversives, and... a is at Wal-Mart and

Ben is having a meltdown--he walked in from school with a helmet on

(been hitting himself again and we're really having problems with

his program.) Tense day--I hope I ran the spell checker and this

makes some sense!!

> My best.

> Peacefully,

> Jeff Sell

> Z. Sell, P.C.

> 4309 Yoakum Blvd.

> 2nd Floor

> Houston, Texas 77006

> 713-654-7776

> 713-654-7789 (fax)

> 832-731-3145 (cell)

> JZSell@J...

> www.JZSLAW.com

>

>

> ASA's application to trademark

the Autism Awareness Ribbon/Image

>

>

> Clarification about the ASA's trademark proceedings concerning

the " Autism

> Awareness Puzzlepiece Ribbon "

>

> There was an e-mail was forwarded by me, Guppy, - from

another

> person who posted to my Texas Autism Advocacy list concerned

about a

> trademark application pending by the ASA to trademark the autism

awareness

> ribbon. From what I personally know, the ASA is dropping their

puzzle boy

> logo - and instead applying to trademark the " Puzzlepiece

Awareness Ribbon "

> as their sole logo. That would mean that anyone USING the

awareness loop

> ribbon - would have to get the ASA's permission, or pay them a

fee, or

> whatever..... Which is totally bonkers in my opinion. That

awareness

> ribbon is used by the Autism Community at large - and should not

be limited

> to, or trademarked by, the ASA.

>

> I personally am wondering how much it is costing the ASA in

attorney fee's

> to pursue this ridiculous venture. Couldn't that money, time,

and effort,

> be put into actually having someone in the ASA answer the phone

when parents

> call desparate for help???????????

>

> Anyone can still use that puzzlepiece fabric in other ways -

but I believe

> that to use it as an awareness ribbon - with that loop - we

would have to

> get ASA's permission...

>

> That is my understanding - from things I have read and from

things that have

> been passed on to me.

>

> Either way - it just makes no sense. What happened to unity?

>

> Please seek clarification from the ASA --- and parents, please

ask the

> Trademark office to not allow them to trademark that Awareness

Ribbon as

> theirs exclusively --- that ribbon represents only one thing

> exclusively........

>

> OUR CHILDREN WITH AUTISM........

>

> not the ASA.

>

> ~~ Guppy

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted

Jeff, you're the best and do so much for all of us that goes

unrecognized and unappreciated! Your long post gave me a much-

needed laugh tonight. You make a's being at Wal-Mart sound like

she's at the spa (which I'm sure she deserves!!!!)

Kim

> Hi & Ellen:

> Sorry y'all feel this way. I do want to correct a few

misunderstandings and rumors that are spreading just about as fast

as that virus, that are simply not true.

> Before getting right down to the issue I wanted to point out

that the ribbon, in my opinion, always stood for autism awareness

and not just the " our children with autism " . It believe hat it was

meant to include adults on the spectrum, parents, brothers, sisters

and anyone in the ASD Community. Also, the legal work was all done

for free--we wouldn't spend money on this. Sorry to be knit-picky,

just wanted to clarify a few points.

> Now as to the intent behind the trademark and the other issues

that folks have e-mailed me about today. It was not to make money

or charge anyone a dollar to use it, it was to protect the metallic

pin logo and keep it associated with autism awareness.

> First, it is my understanding that no one will be charged for

the use of the autism awareness ribbon or have to pay a royalty back

to ASA.

> ASA trademarked the ribbon to prevent a few other groups from

using it that had no connection to the autism community. Basically

followed the same course the Breast Cancer Foundation (Pink Ribbon)

and some other groups (silver ribbon, black and white ribbon, red

ribbon--can't remember what they're about??) and the yellow ribbon

folks have done to ensure that their ribbons have a universal

meaning when it is seen. All of these other ribbons are

trademarked. I saw that the puzzle piece ribbon was being used by

some " Goth folks " to represent the puzzles of the modern day

universe or something like that when I was in Atlanta back in 2000

and again in San Francisco in June 2001. Then I saw the same ribbon

being used by a gay pride group in Dallas last year as well. At

that time I realized there was an issue with the ribbons meaning,

but didn't think much about it at that time.

> ly, I didn't give it a second thought when I heard that

our Executive Director began the trademark process back in 2002 when

the reasons for doing so--protecting it's meaning--were presented to

the ASA Board. This action didn't require board approval. I also

remember seeing the original designs that were done in 1983 (I think-

-not really sure about that anymore however since have received 4 e-

mails today alone from 4 separate folks who all say that the ribbon

was their idea, or the can prove they know who designed it--I

honestly don't know who drew the puzzle pieces in a metal ribbon the

first time aside from the puzzle piece boy--I have met the couple

that did that back in the 1970's--granted, it's not the metallic

ribbon per se) and re-circulated at board meetings in 1996, 1998 and

1999 and being outraged that ASA as talking about logos, rather than

legislation. My thoughts at that time were--it's a frickin logo--my

twins can't speak--why in the hell are we even talking about

something like this that will not help my sons, other children,

adult's on the spectrum facing life and death issues and families

with real problems???? Actually, I may still feel that way.

> The puzzle piece ribbon was not a big issue in my humble

opinion back in 1996, 1998, 1999 or 2002. Heck, sure could be wrong

about that, but that's just me.

> Now, folks are raising some valid points and all are certainly

have the right to express them. I don't duck under desks, that is

exactly what drug companies and some in Congress want us to do --

fight amongst ourselves and, go away. Also, I am very sorry that

some of my friends feel as though I have done nothing in 5-6 years

of volunteer service on ASA's board. I guess I should have done

more. I'm trying. Heck nearly everyone on the ASA board, Lee

Grossman, Rick Rollens, Ben Dorman, Elaine Harvey, Shore,

Ruth Elaine Hane, myself and so on are just parent volunteers trying

to do the best we can.

> Here is some background about why I feel this way, without

meaning to be disrespectful of anyone's viewpoint on the ribbon

matter.

> Less than two weeks ago a Kline lawyer said, " you folks

in the autism world will never get on the same page, hell you are

always fighting amongst yourselves over what ASA does or fails to

do, who said what to whom, logos, ribbons (yes he said " ribbons " the

same day someone on another list made the first complaint about it,

that I am aware of, he knew about it!!), letterheads and so on. We

don't have anything to fear from such an fractured group. "

> Some background---I threatened him first by saying " your day

is coming " or something like that and the above was his response.

Heck, after this little SOB said that, I was at a loss for words

since his statement was, for the most part, accurate. My only

inarticulate response was to blurt out my old-stand by, " F___

you " . I only say that when I can't come up with a factual reply,

that's one of my emotional faults. His reply to that was, " you know

I'm right and it's killing you. " ... " Even Jesus himself couldn't

unify you autism folks, so you sure can't do it. Who do you think

you are? " I just smiled and said, " I am Ben & Joe's dad, don't ever

forget that. We may fight amongst ourselves a lot, but we love each

other like brothers and sisters " . He smirked, said " sure " , and left

the conference room. That really stuck with me and that point has

frustrated me ever since the twins were diagnosed and I got involved

in the autism community, first with ARK, the ASA and UA.

> This morning when I started getting nasty e-mails about ASA

trademarking the ribbon, I was taken right back to what this guy

said less than two weeks ago.

> These SOB's read everything we say to each other on so many of

the listserves. They seem to know our every move before that move

is made. Unfortunately, we are always playing right into their

hands--every dog-gone day it seems.

> Now, I am certainly not trying to ignore complaints about the

trademark issue or stop people from expressing their views. We all

need to do that. I am just trying to stay focused on the big

picture--IDEA, Adult Services, Funding for biomedical and applied

research, education, restraint issues and abuses and so on.

> If this becomes a big issue that further weakens our

collective strength on the Hill and in Courtrooms, then that is

truly a shame. If a gay pride group in Dallas continues to use the

puzzle ribbon, or that " Goth " group in Atlanta or San Francisco uses

it and it becomes associated with them rather than autism, that too

would be a shame. I am just more focused on other issues now and

trying the best I can.

> Sorry this was long and rather rambling. I was working from

home today and needed to do 3 vaccine hearings by phone (just

finished the last one which was at 4:30 EST), then do a draft IDEA--

S 1248 letter to some Senate HELP folks, two letters to folks who

are going to co-sponsor HR 1700, provide an opinion on " 's

Law " and the misuse of aversives, and... a is at Wal-Mart and

Ben is having a meltdown--he walked in from school with a helmet on

(been hitting himself again and we're really having problems with

his program.) Tense day--I hope I ran the spell checker and this

makes some sense!!

> My best.

> Peacefully,

> Jeff Sell

> Z. Sell, P.C.

> 4309 Yoakum Blvd.

> 2nd Floor

> Houston, Texas 77006

> 713-654-7776

> 713-654-7789 (fax)

> 832-731-3145 (cell)

> JZSell@J...

> www.JZSLAW.com

>

>

> ASA's application to trademark

the Autism Awareness Ribbon/Image

>

>

> Clarification about the ASA's trademark proceedings concerning

the " Autism

> Awareness Puzzlepiece Ribbon "

>

> There was an e-mail was forwarded by me, Guppy, - from

another

> person who posted to my Texas Autism Advocacy list concerned

about a

> trademark application pending by the ASA to trademark the autism

awareness

> ribbon. From what I personally know, the ASA is dropping their

puzzle boy

> logo - and instead applying to trademark the " Puzzlepiece

Awareness Ribbon "

> as their sole logo. That would mean that anyone USING the

awareness loop

> ribbon - would have to get the ASA's permission, or pay them a

fee, or

> whatever..... Which is totally bonkers in my opinion. That

awareness

> ribbon is used by the Autism Community at large - and should not

be limited

> to, or trademarked by, the ASA.

>

> I personally am wondering how much it is costing the ASA in

attorney fee's

> to pursue this ridiculous venture. Couldn't that money, time,

and effort,

> be put into actually having someone in the ASA answer the phone

when parents

> call desparate for help???????????

>

> Anyone can still use that puzzlepiece fabric in other ways -

but I believe

> that to use it as an awareness ribbon - with that loop - we

would have to

> get ASA's permission...

>

> That is my understanding - from things I have read and from

things that have

> been passed on to me.

>

> Either way - it just makes no sense. What happened to unity?

>

> Please seek clarification from the ASA --- and parents, please

ask the

> Trademark office to not allow them to trademark that Awareness

Ribbon as

> theirs exclusively --- that ribbon represents only one thing

> exclusively........

>

> OUR CHILDREN WITH AUTISM........

>

> not the ASA.

>

> ~~ Guppy

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Hi J.P.

Thank you for your kind words.

My secret(s). Simple (1) I married well -- PAULA; and (2) I am an

insomniac!!!!!; (3) cell phones with multiple batteries; and, (4) laptops!!

Here are a few other specific examples taken from an e-mail I sent out a

while ago that addresses the intent behind the ribbon trademarking and gives

some real life, example of some problems ASA was facing. (see below).

My best.

Peacefully,

Jeff Sell

Autism Society of America - 1st Vice Chair

Chairman - ASA Government Relations Committee

www.autism-society.org

JZSell@...

www.JZSLAW.com

832-731-3145 (cell)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi XXXXXX:

I think it's pretty clear, get prior approval, just as I did long ago

for using the ribbon on my website (before it was ever trademarked actually,

back in 2001 when I did the old website--I just thought it would be nice to

ask first) and MoMA can use it and keep the royalties all to themselves (See

P. 3.1 -- " 3.1. Subject to the provisions of this Agreement, Licensor grants

to Licensee, and Licensee accepts, a nonexclusive, nontransferable,

royalty-free, personal license... "

5.3 basically says you shouldn't do a & b " without prior written

approval .. " --that last phrase is the operative phrase from a legal

standpoint. In plain English, (I really despise legalese), " Ask first " .

One of the many reasons behind that is to ensure folks like the Judge

Rottenberg Group (a group of so called " healers " who strap electrodes on

autistic adults/children's bodies, then turn on the electricity and shock

the folks to allegedly prevent so called " poor behavior " ) don't use the

ribbon creating the impression that ASA endorses their use of electrical

shock treatments (that happened back in the 1990's, 2000 and 2001) and to

make sure non autism groups that want to sell it on e-bay or some other

place to make money off of us parents ask for permission first.

ASA has no plans of denying permission to anyone except the most extreme

cases. Heck, ASA is usually accused of being too soft and lenient on such

matters. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't. Some parents in Minnesota

brought a disturbing matter to my attention back in March 2003 that relates

to this concern. They bought into a " psychic " healer who used the ribbon on

his marketing materials. After paying $8,000, the parents felt as though

they were taken for a ride and ASA should have stopped this. They called me

before going to a lawyers office to file suit against the psychic and ASA to

get their money back. They saw the ribbons and " assumed " that ASA had

checked this shyster out and endorsed him since the ribbon was on his

material. They ended up not suing ASA after I explained things to them.

That really creates a lot of legal exposure when we really have no idea

whose doing what.

Hope this helps. Thanks for asking before assuming the worst, I really

wish others would do the same!!!!

My best.

PS--I noticed you attached a copy of Bill ' proposed agreement

before any revisions. This matter was mishandled. I really think that a

very inexperienced (in the ways of the asd community) staffer mishandled the

situation with Bill. I wish Bill would have just called me first to discuss

the matter and get it resolved the old fashioned way--by talking about the

problem and finding a solution. But, that didn't happen. I can't fix a

problem until I hear about it.

Gotta run,

Hey, again, thank you so much for asking!!!!!

Peacefully,

Jeff Sell

Z. Sell, P.C.

4309 Yoakum Blvd.

2nd Floor

Houston, Texas 77006

713-654-7776

713-654-7789 (fax)

832-731-3145 (cell)

JZSell@...

www.JZSLAW.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ASA's application to trademark the Autism

Awareness Ribbon/Image

Clarification about the ASA's trademark proceedings concerning the " Autism

Awareness Puzzlepiece Ribbon "

There was an e-mail was forwarded by me, Guppy, - from another

person who posted to my Texas Autism Advocacy list concerned about a

trademark application pending by the ASA to trademark the autism awareness

ribbon. From what I personally know, the ASA is dropping their puzzle

boy

logo - and instead applying to trademark the " Puzzlepiece Awareness

Ribbon "

as their sole logo. That would mean that anyone USING the awareness loop

ribbon - would have to get the ASA's permission, or pay them a fee, or

whatever..... Which is totally bonkers in my opinion. That awareness

ribbon is used by the Autism Community at large - and should not be

limited

to, or trademarked by, the ASA.

I personally am wondering how much it is costing the ASA in attorney fee's

to pursue this ridiculous venture. Couldn't that money, time, and effort,

be put into actually having someone in the ASA answer the phone when

parents

call desparate for help???????????

Anyone can still use that puzzlepiece fabric in other ways - but I

believe

that to use it as an awareness ribbon - with that loop - we would have to

get ASA's permission...

That is my understanding - from things I have read and from things that

have

been passed on to me.

Either way - it just makes no sense. What happened to unity?

Please seek clarification from the ASA --- and parents, please ask the

Trademark office to not allow them to trademark that Awareness Ribbon as

theirs exclusively --- that ribbon represents only one thing

exclusively........

OUR CHILDREN WITH AUTISM........

not the ASA.

~~ Guppy

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Posted
Posted

Hi J.P.

Thank you for your kind words.

My secret(s). Simple (1) I married well -- PAULA; and (2) I am an

insomniac!!!!!; (3) cell phones with multiple batteries; and, (4) laptops!!

Here are a few other specific examples taken from an e-mail I sent out a

while ago that addresses the intent behind the ribbon trademarking and gives

some real life, example of some problems ASA was facing. (see below).

My best.

Peacefully,

Jeff Sell

Autism Society of America - 1st Vice Chair

Chairman - ASA Government Relations Committee

www.autism-society.org

JZSell@...

www.JZSLAW.com

832-731-3145 (cell)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi XXXXXX:

I think it's pretty clear, get prior approval, just as I did long ago

for using the ribbon on my website (before it was ever trademarked actually,

back in 2001 when I did the old website--I just thought it would be nice to

ask first) and MoMA can use it and keep the royalties all to themselves (See

P. 3.1 -- " 3.1. Subject to the provisions of this Agreement, Licensor grants

to Licensee, and Licensee accepts, a nonexclusive, nontransferable,

royalty-free, personal license... "

5.3 basically says you shouldn't do a & b " without prior written

approval .. " --that last phrase is the operative phrase from a legal

standpoint. In plain English, (I really despise legalese), " Ask first " .

One of the many reasons behind that is to ensure folks like the Judge

Rottenberg Group (a group of so called " healers " who strap electrodes on

autistic adults/children's bodies, then turn on the electricity and shock

the folks to allegedly prevent so called " poor behavior " ) don't use the

ribbon creating the impression that ASA endorses their use of electrical

shock treatments (that happened back in the 1990's, 2000 and 2001) and to

make sure non autism groups that want to sell it on e-bay or some other

place to make money off of us parents ask for permission first.

ASA has no plans of denying permission to anyone except the most extreme

cases. Heck, ASA is usually accused of being too soft and lenient on such

matters. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't. Some parents in Minnesota

brought a disturbing matter to my attention back in March 2003 that relates

to this concern. They bought into a " psychic " healer who used the ribbon on

his marketing materials. After paying $8,000, the parents felt as though

they were taken for a ride and ASA should have stopped this. They called me

before going to a lawyers office to file suit against the psychic and ASA to

get their money back. They saw the ribbons and " assumed " that ASA had

checked this shyster out and endorsed him since the ribbon was on his

material. They ended up not suing ASA after I explained things to them.

That really creates a lot of legal exposure when we really have no idea

whose doing what.

Hope this helps. Thanks for asking before assuming the worst, I really

wish others would do the same!!!!

My best.

PS--I noticed you attached a copy of Bill ' proposed agreement

before any revisions. This matter was mishandled. I really think that a

very inexperienced (in the ways of the asd community) staffer mishandled the

situation with Bill. I wish Bill would have just called me first to discuss

the matter and get it resolved the old fashioned way--by talking about the

problem and finding a solution. But, that didn't happen. I can't fix a

problem until I hear about it.

Gotta run,

Hey, again, thank you so much for asking!!!!!

Peacefully,

Jeff Sell

Z. Sell, P.C.

4309 Yoakum Blvd.

2nd Floor

Houston, Texas 77006

713-654-7776

713-654-7789 (fax)

832-731-3145 (cell)

JZSell@...

www.JZSLAW.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ASA's application to trademark the Autism

Awareness Ribbon/Image

Clarification about the ASA's trademark proceedings concerning the " Autism

Awareness Puzzlepiece Ribbon "

There was an e-mail was forwarded by me, Guppy, - from another

person who posted to my Texas Autism Advocacy list concerned about a

trademark application pending by the ASA to trademark the autism awareness

ribbon. From what I personally know, the ASA is dropping their puzzle

boy

logo - and instead applying to trademark the " Puzzlepiece Awareness

Ribbon "

as their sole logo. That would mean that anyone USING the awareness loop

ribbon - would have to get the ASA's permission, or pay them a fee, or

whatever..... Which is totally bonkers in my opinion. That awareness

ribbon is used by the Autism Community at large - and should not be

limited

to, or trademarked by, the ASA.

I personally am wondering how much it is costing the ASA in attorney fee's

to pursue this ridiculous venture. Couldn't that money, time, and effort,

be put into actually having someone in the ASA answer the phone when

parents

call desparate for help???????????

Anyone can still use that puzzlepiece fabric in other ways - but I

believe

that to use it as an awareness ribbon - with that loop - we would have to

get ASA's permission...

That is my understanding - from things I have read and from things that

have

been passed on to me.

Either way - it just makes no sense. What happened to unity?

Please seek clarification from the ASA --- and parents, please ask the

Trademark office to not allow them to trademark that Awareness Ribbon as

theirs exclusively --- that ribbon represents only one thing

exclusively........

OUR CHILDREN WITH AUTISM........

not the ASA.

~~ Guppy

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Posted
Posted

I'm sorry but I think it is not wise to trusts the ASA. There is already a

documented case where they have sent a small organization documents and

licensing and royalty payment materials. I think that is they wanted to make

the 'symbol' available for all, they would have come out and said that.

Instead this was done on the sly with 'denials' about requests for royalty

payments which have turned out to be true.

Marc

Re: ASA's application to trademark the

Autism Awareness Ribbon/Image

Hi & Ellen:

Sorry y'all feel this way. I do want to correct a few

misunderstandings

and rumors that are spreading just about as fast as that virus, that are

simply not true.

Before getting right down to the issue I wanted to point out that the

ribbon, in my opinion, always stood for autism awareness and not just the

" our children with autism " . It believe hat it was meant to include adults

on the spectrum, parents, brothers, sisters and anyone in the ASD

Community.

Also, the legal work was all done for free--we wouldn't spend money on

this.

Sorry to be knit-picky, just wanted to clarify a few points.

Now as to the intent behind the trademark and the other issues that

folks have e-mailed me about today. It was not to make money or charge

anyone a dollar to use it, it was to protect the metallic pin logo and

keep

it associated with autism awareness.

First, it is my understanding that no one will be charged for the use

of

the autism awareness ribbon or have to pay a royalty back to ASA.

ASA trademarked the ribbon to prevent a few other groups from using it

that had no connection to the autism community. Basically followed the

same

course the Breast Cancer Foundation (Pink Ribbon) and some other groups

(silver ribbon, black and white ribbon, red ribbon--can't remember what

they're about??) and the yellow ribbon folks have done to ensure that

their

ribbons have a universal meaning when it is seen. All of these other

ribbons are trademarked. I saw that the puzzle piece ribbon was being

used

by some " Goth folks " to represent the puzzles of the modern day universe

or

something like that when I was in Atlanta back in 2000 and again in San

Francisco in June 2001. Then I saw the same ribbon being used by a gay

pride group in Dallas last year as well. At that time I realized there

was

an issue with the ribbons meaning, but didn't think much about it at that

time.

ly, I didn't give it a second thought when I heard that our

Executive Director began the trademark process back in 2002 when the

reasons

for doing so--protecting it's meaning--were presented to the ASA Board.

This action didn't require board approval. I also remember seeing the

original designs that were done in 1983 (I think--not really sure about

that

anymore however since have received 4 e-mails today alone from 4 separate

folks who all say that the ribbon was their idea, or the can prove they

know

who designed it--I honestly don't know who drew the puzzle pieces in a

metal

ribbon the first time aside from the puzzle piece boy--I have met the

couple

that did that back in the 1970's--granted, it's not the metallic ribbon

per

se) and re-circulated at board meetings in 1996, 1998 and 1999 and being

outraged that ASA as talking about logos, rather than legislation. My

thoughts at that time were--it's a frickin logo--my twins can't speak--why

in the hell are we even talking about something like this that will not

help

my sons, other children, adult's on the spectrum facing life and death

issues and families with real problems???? Actually, I may still feel

that

way.

The puzzle piece ribbon was not a big issue in my humble opinion back

in

1996, 1998, 1999 or 2002. Heck, sure could be wrong about that, but

that's

just me.

Now, folks are raising some valid points and all are certainly have

the

right to express them. I don't duck under desks, that is exactly what

drug

companies and some in Congress want us to do -- fight amongst ourselves

and,

go away. Also, I am very sorry that some of my friends feel as though I

have done nothing in 5-6 years of volunteer service on ASA's board. I

guess

I should have done more. I'm trying. Heck nearly everyone on the ASA

board, Lee Grossman, Rick Rollens, Ben Dorman, Elaine Harvey,

Shore,

Ruth Elaine Hane, myself and so on are just parent volunteers trying to do

the best we can.

Here is some background about why I feel this way, without meaning to

be

disrespectful of anyone's viewpoint on the ribbon matter.

Less than two weeks ago a Kline lawyer said, " you folks in the

autism world will never get on the same page, hell you are always fighting

amongst yourselves over what ASA does or fails to do, who said what to

whom,

logos, ribbons (yes he said " ribbons " the same day someone on another list

made the first complaint about it, that I am aware of, he knew about

it!!),

letterheads and so on. We don't have anything to fear from such an

fractured group. "

Some background---I threatened him first by saying " your day is

coming "

or something like that and the above was his response. Heck, after this

little SOB said that, I was at a loss for words since his statement was,

for

the most part, accurate. My only inarticulate response was to blurt out

my

old-stand by, " F___ you " . I only say that when I can't come up with a

factual reply, that's one of my emotional faults. His reply to that was,

" you know I'm right and it's killing you. " ... " Even Jesus himself couldn't

unify you autism folks, so you sure can't do it. Who do you think you

are? "

I just smiled and said, " I am Ben & Joe's dad, don't ever forget that. We

may fight amongst ourselves a lot, but we love each other like brothers

and

sisters " . He smirked, said " sure " , and left the conference room. That

really stuck with me and that point has frustrated me ever since the twins

were diagnosed and I got involved in the autism community, first with ARK,

the ASA and UA.

This morning when I started getting nasty e-mails about ASA

trademarking

the ribbon, I was taken right back to what this guy said less than two

weeks

ago.

These SOB's read everything we say to each other on so many of the

listserves. They seem to know our every move before that move is made.

Unfortunately, we are always playing right into their hands--every

dog-gone

day it seems.

Now, I am certainly not trying to ignore complaints about the

trademark

issue or stop people from expressing their views. We all need to do that.

I am just trying to stay focused on the big picture--IDEA, Adult Services,

Funding for biomedical and applied research, education, restraint issues

and

abuses and so on.

If this becomes a big issue that further weakens our collective

strength

on the Hill and in Courtrooms, then that is truly a shame. If a gay pride

group in Dallas continues to use the puzzle ribbon, or that " Goth " group

in

Atlanta or San Francisco uses it and it becomes associated with them

rather

than autism, that too would be a shame. I am just more focused on other

issues now and trying the best I can.

Sorry this was long and rather rambling. I was working from home

today

and needed to do 3 vaccine hearings by phone (just finished the last one

which was at 4:30 EST), then do a draft IDEA--S 1248 letter to some Senate

HELP folks, two letters to folks who are going to co-sponsor HR 1700,

provide an opinion on " 's Law " and the misuse of aversives, and...

a is at Wal-Mart and Ben is having a meltdown--he walked in from

school

with a helmet on (been hitting himself again and we're really having

problems with his program.) Tense day--I hope I ran the spell checker

and

this makes some sense!!

My best.

Peacefully,

Jeff Sell

Z. Sell, P.C.

4309 Yoakum Blvd.

2nd Floor

Houston, Texas 77006

713-654-7776

713-654-7789 (fax)

832-731-3145 (cell)

JZSell@...

www.JZSLAW.com

ASA's application to trademark the

Autism

Awareness Ribbon/Image

Clarification about the ASA's trademark proceedings concerning the

" Autism

Awareness Puzzlepiece Ribbon "

There was an e-mail was forwarded by me, Guppy, - from another

person who posted to my Texas Autism Advocacy list concerned about a

trademark application pending by the ASA to trademark the autism

awareness

ribbon. From what I personally know, the ASA is dropping their puzzle

boy

logo - and instead applying to trademark the " Puzzlepiece Awareness

Ribbon "

as their sole logo. That would mean that anyone USING the awareness

loop

ribbon - would have to get the ASA's permission, or pay them a fee, or

whatever..... Which is totally bonkers in my opinion. That awareness

ribbon is used by the Autism Community at large - and should not be

limited

to, or trademarked by, the ASA.

I personally am wondering how much it is costing the ASA in attorney

fee's

to pursue this ridiculous venture. Couldn't that money, time, and

effort,

be put into actually having someone in the ASA answer the phone when

parents

call desparate for help???????????

Anyone can still use that puzzlepiece fabric in other ways - but I

believe

that to use it as an awareness ribbon - with that loop - we would have

to

get ASA's permission...

That is my understanding - from things I have read and from things that

have

been passed on to me.

Either way - it just makes no sense. What happened to unity?

Please seek clarification from the ASA --- and parents, please ask the

Trademark office to not allow them to trademark that Awareness Ribbon as

theirs exclusively --- that ribbon represents only one thing

exclusively........

OUR CHILDREN WITH AUTISM........

not the ASA.

~~ Guppy

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Posted
Posted

I'm sorry but I think it is not wise to trusts the ASA. There is already a

documented case where they have sent a small organization documents and

licensing and royalty payment materials. I think that is they wanted to make

the 'symbol' available for all, they would have come out and said that.

Instead this was done on the sly with 'denials' about requests for royalty

payments which have turned out to be true.

Marc

Re: ASA's application to trademark the

Autism Awareness Ribbon/Image

Hi & Ellen:

Sorry y'all feel this way. I do want to correct a few

misunderstandings

and rumors that are spreading just about as fast as that virus, that are

simply not true.

Before getting right down to the issue I wanted to point out that the

ribbon, in my opinion, always stood for autism awareness and not just the

" our children with autism " . It believe hat it was meant to include adults

on the spectrum, parents, brothers, sisters and anyone in the ASD

Community.

Also, the legal work was all done for free--we wouldn't spend money on

this.

Sorry to be knit-picky, just wanted to clarify a few points.

Now as to the intent behind the trademark and the other issues that

folks have e-mailed me about today. It was not to make money or charge

anyone a dollar to use it, it was to protect the metallic pin logo and

keep

it associated with autism awareness.

First, it is my understanding that no one will be charged for the use

of

the autism awareness ribbon or have to pay a royalty back to ASA.

ASA trademarked the ribbon to prevent a few other groups from using it

that had no connection to the autism community. Basically followed the

same

course the Breast Cancer Foundation (Pink Ribbon) and some other groups

(silver ribbon, black and white ribbon, red ribbon--can't remember what

they're about??) and the yellow ribbon folks have done to ensure that

their

ribbons have a universal meaning when it is seen. All of these other

ribbons are trademarked. I saw that the puzzle piece ribbon was being

used

by some " Goth folks " to represent the puzzles of the modern day universe

or

something like that when I was in Atlanta back in 2000 and again in San

Francisco in June 2001. Then I saw the same ribbon being used by a gay

pride group in Dallas last year as well. At that time I realized there

was

an issue with the ribbons meaning, but didn't think much about it at that

time.

ly, I didn't give it a second thought when I heard that our

Executive Director began the trademark process back in 2002 when the

reasons

for doing so--protecting it's meaning--were presented to the ASA Board.

This action didn't require board approval. I also remember seeing the

original designs that were done in 1983 (I think--not really sure about

that

anymore however since have received 4 e-mails today alone from 4 separate

folks who all say that the ribbon was their idea, or the can prove they

know

who designed it--I honestly don't know who drew the puzzle pieces in a

metal

ribbon the first time aside from the puzzle piece boy--I have met the

couple

that did that back in the 1970's--granted, it's not the metallic ribbon

per

se) and re-circulated at board meetings in 1996, 1998 and 1999 and being

outraged that ASA as talking about logos, rather than legislation. My

thoughts at that time were--it's a frickin logo--my twins can't speak--why

in the hell are we even talking about something like this that will not

help

my sons, other children, adult's on the spectrum facing life and death

issues and families with real problems???? Actually, I may still feel

that

way.

The puzzle piece ribbon was not a big issue in my humble opinion back

in

1996, 1998, 1999 or 2002. Heck, sure could be wrong about that, but

that's

just me.

Now, folks are raising some valid points and all are certainly have

the

right to express them. I don't duck under desks, that is exactly what

drug

companies and some in Congress want us to do -- fight amongst ourselves

and,

go away. Also, I am very sorry that some of my friends feel as though I

have done nothing in 5-6 years of volunteer service on ASA's board. I

guess

I should have done more. I'm trying. Heck nearly everyone on the ASA

board, Lee Grossman, Rick Rollens, Ben Dorman, Elaine Harvey,

Shore,

Ruth Elaine Hane, myself and so on are just parent volunteers trying to do

the best we can.

Here is some background about why I feel this way, without meaning to

be

disrespectful of anyone's viewpoint on the ribbon matter.

Less than two weeks ago a Kline lawyer said, " you folks in the

autism world will never get on the same page, hell you are always fighting

amongst yourselves over what ASA does or fails to do, who said what to

whom,

logos, ribbons (yes he said " ribbons " the same day someone on another list

made the first complaint about it, that I am aware of, he knew about

it!!),

letterheads and so on. We don't have anything to fear from such an

fractured group. "

Some background---I threatened him first by saying " your day is

coming "

or something like that and the above was his response. Heck, after this

little SOB said that, I was at a loss for words since his statement was,

for

the most part, accurate. My only inarticulate response was to blurt out

my

old-stand by, " F___ you " . I only say that when I can't come up with a

factual reply, that's one of my emotional faults. His reply to that was,

" you know I'm right and it's killing you. " ... " Even Jesus himself couldn't

unify you autism folks, so you sure can't do it. Who do you think you

are? "

I just smiled and said, " I am Ben & Joe's dad, don't ever forget that. We

may fight amongst ourselves a lot, but we love each other like brothers

and

sisters " . He smirked, said " sure " , and left the conference room. That

really stuck with me and that point has frustrated me ever since the twins

were diagnosed and I got involved in the autism community, first with ARK,

the ASA and UA.

This morning when I started getting nasty e-mails about ASA

trademarking

the ribbon, I was taken right back to what this guy said less than two

weeks

ago.

These SOB's read everything we say to each other on so many of the

listserves. They seem to know our every move before that move is made.

Unfortunately, we are always playing right into their hands--every

dog-gone

day it seems.

Now, I am certainly not trying to ignore complaints about the

trademark

issue or stop people from expressing their views. We all need to do that.

I am just trying to stay focused on the big picture--IDEA, Adult Services,

Funding for biomedical and applied research, education, restraint issues

and

abuses and so on.

If this becomes a big issue that further weakens our collective

strength

on the Hill and in Courtrooms, then that is truly a shame. If a gay pride

group in Dallas continues to use the puzzle ribbon, or that " Goth " group

in

Atlanta or San Francisco uses it and it becomes associated with them

rather

than autism, that too would be a shame. I am just more focused on other

issues now and trying the best I can.

Sorry this was long and rather rambling. I was working from home

today

and needed to do 3 vaccine hearings by phone (just finished the last one

which was at 4:30 EST), then do a draft IDEA--S 1248 letter to some Senate

HELP folks, two letters to folks who are going to co-sponsor HR 1700,

provide an opinion on " 's Law " and the misuse of aversives, and...

a is at Wal-Mart and Ben is having a meltdown--he walked in from

school

with a helmet on (been hitting himself again and we're really having

problems with his program.) Tense day--I hope I ran the spell checker

and

this makes some sense!!

My best.

Peacefully,

Jeff Sell

Z. Sell, P.C.

4309 Yoakum Blvd.

2nd Floor

Houston, Texas 77006

713-654-7776

713-654-7789 (fax)

832-731-3145 (cell)

JZSell@...

www.JZSLAW.com

ASA's application to trademark the

Autism

Awareness Ribbon/Image

Clarification about the ASA's trademark proceedings concerning the

" Autism

Awareness Puzzlepiece Ribbon "

There was an e-mail was forwarded by me, Guppy, - from another

person who posted to my Texas Autism Advocacy list concerned about a

trademark application pending by the ASA to trademark the autism

awareness

ribbon. From what I personally know, the ASA is dropping their puzzle

boy

logo - and instead applying to trademark the " Puzzlepiece Awareness

Ribbon "

as their sole logo. That would mean that anyone USING the awareness

loop

ribbon - would have to get the ASA's permission, or pay them a fee, or

whatever..... Which is totally bonkers in my opinion. That awareness

ribbon is used by the Autism Community at large - and should not be

limited

to, or trademarked by, the ASA.

I personally am wondering how much it is costing the ASA in attorney

fee's

to pursue this ridiculous venture. Couldn't that money, time, and

effort,

be put into actually having someone in the ASA answer the phone when

parents

call desparate for help???????????

Anyone can still use that puzzlepiece fabric in other ways - but I

believe

that to use it as an awareness ribbon - with that loop - we would have

to

get ASA's permission...

That is my understanding - from things I have read and from things that

have

been passed on to me.

Either way - it just makes no sense. What happened to unity?

Please seek clarification from the ASA --- and parents, please ask the

Trademark office to not allow them to trademark that Awareness Ribbon as

theirs exclusively --- that ribbon represents only one thing

exclusively........

OUR CHILDREN WITH AUTISM........

not the ASA.

~~ Guppy

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Posted
Posted

Hi Marc:

Can you please specifically identify the case and or small organization

where royalties, or anything like that was requested. I spent the day going

through copies of all of the Licensing Agreements (I thought), one by one, and

interrogating the staff on this very accusation and found nothing like that at

all. I also spoke with several people who had asked for the licensing

agreements that have been available since early July and confirmed from my

review of each of them that ASA staffers were not asking for money or royalties.

If they held one back, I need to know. Sure these agreements were sent out with

the intent to protect the intergity of the ribbon and ensure it is associated

with autism, but no money was to ever have been asked for up front, or royalty

payments requested later on down the road. If I could talk to the individual

who was asked for a royalty payment, that sure would help me get to the bottom

of this.

You mention it is " documented " . Can I please also see the documentation so

I can determine if someone on the ASA staff mislead me. If that is indeed the

case, they will be gone by Monday.

Bottom line, the ASA buck stops with me (well, and the other parents, family

members and individuals on the spectrum serving on the board of directors).

Thanks in advance for your help and, I am sorry you do not trust me or ASA.

Feel free to e-mail me directly, on the list or call.

Thanks again.

Peacefully,

Jeff Sell

Autism Society of America - 1st Vice Chair

Chairman - ASA Government Relations Committee

www.autism-society.org

JZSell@...

www.JZSLAW.com

832-731-3145 (cell)

ASA's application to trademark the

Autism

Awareness Ribbon/Image

Clarification about the ASA's trademark proceedings concerning the

" Autism

Awareness Puzzlepiece Ribbon "

There was an e-mail was forwarded by me, Guppy, - from another

person who posted to my Texas Autism Advocacy list concerned about a

trademark application pending by the ASA to trademark the autism

awareness

ribbon. From what I personally know, the ASA is dropping their puzzle

boy

logo - and instead applying to trademark the " Puzzlepiece Awareness

Ribbon "

as their sole logo. That would mean that anyone USING the awareness

loop

ribbon - would have to get the ASA's permission, or pay them a fee, or

whatever..... Which is totally bonkers in my opinion. That awareness

ribbon is used by the Autism Community at large - and should not be

limited

to, or trademarked by, the ASA.

I personally am wondering how much it is costing the ASA in attorney

fee's

to pursue this ridiculous venture. Couldn't that money, time, and

effort,

be put into actually having someone in the ASA answer the phone when

parents

call desparate for help???????????

Anyone can still use that puzzlepiece fabric in other ways - but I

believe

that to use it as an awareness ribbon - with that loop - we would have

to

get ASA's permission...

That is my understanding - from things I have read and from things that

have

been passed on to me.

Either way - it just makes no sense. What happened to unity?

Please seek clarification from the ASA --- and parents, please ask the

Trademark office to not allow them to trademark that Awareness Ribbon as

theirs exclusively --- that ribbon represents only one thing

exclusively........

OUR CHILDREN WITH AUTISM........

not the ASA.

~~ Guppy

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Posted
Posted

Hi Marc:

Can you please specifically identify the case and or small organization

where royalties, or anything like that was requested. I spent the day going

through copies of all of the Licensing Agreements (I thought), one by one, and

interrogating the staff on this very accusation and found nothing like that at

all. I also spoke with several people who had asked for the licensing

agreements that have been available since early July and confirmed from my

review of each of them that ASA staffers were not asking for money or royalties.

If they held one back, I need to know. Sure these agreements were sent out with

the intent to protect the intergity of the ribbon and ensure it is associated

with autism, but no money was to ever have been asked for up front, or royalty

payments requested later on down the road. If I could talk to the individual

who was asked for a royalty payment, that sure would help me get to the bottom

of this.

You mention it is " documented " . Can I please also see the documentation so

I can determine if someone on the ASA staff mislead me. If that is indeed the

case, they will be gone by Monday.

Bottom line, the ASA buck stops with me (well, and the other parents, family

members and individuals on the spectrum serving on the board of directors).

Thanks in advance for your help and, I am sorry you do not trust me or ASA.

Feel free to e-mail me directly, on the list or call.

Thanks again.

Peacefully,

Jeff Sell

Autism Society of America - 1st Vice Chair

Chairman - ASA Government Relations Committee

www.autism-society.org

JZSell@...

www.JZSLAW.com

832-731-3145 (cell)

ASA's application to trademark the

Autism

Awareness Ribbon/Image

Clarification about the ASA's trademark proceedings concerning the

" Autism

Awareness Puzzlepiece Ribbon "

There was an e-mail was forwarded by me, Guppy, - from another

person who posted to my Texas Autism Advocacy list concerned about a

trademark application pending by the ASA to trademark the autism

awareness

ribbon. From what I personally know, the ASA is dropping their puzzle

boy

logo - and instead applying to trademark the " Puzzlepiece Awareness

Ribbon "

as their sole logo. That would mean that anyone USING the awareness

loop

ribbon - would have to get the ASA's permission, or pay them a fee, or

whatever..... Which is totally bonkers in my opinion. That awareness

ribbon is used by the Autism Community at large - and should not be

limited

to, or trademarked by, the ASA.

I personally am wondering how much it is costing the ASA in attorney

fee's

to pursue this ridiculous venture. Couldn't that money, time, and

effort,

be put into actually having someone in the ASA answer the phone when

parents

call desparate for help???????????

Anyone can still use that puzzlepiece fabric in other ways - but I

believe

that to use it as an awareness ribbon - with that loop - we would have

to

get ASA's permission...

That is my understanding - from things I have read and from things that

have

been passed on to me.

Either way - it just makes no sense. What happened to unity?

Please seek clarification from the ASA --- and parents, please ask the

Trademark office to not allow them to trademark that Awareness Ribbon as

theirs exclusively --- that ribbon represents only one thing

exclusively........

OUR CHILDREN WITH AUTISM........

not the ASA.

~~ Guppy

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You can check the status at

http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial & entry=76384137

It is my understanding this is a done deal. I have been in contact with Bill

's producer whom they approached as he uses the ribbon on the cover of the

video. He contacted me and others who sell the ribbon to see if we have been

contacted. The ASA is saying they have used the ribbon since January 2000. They

are looking for someone who might of used this before that date to possibly

challenge this trademark. I did not buy my first bolt until March of 2000.

Gosh darn! <wink> But others were using this long befor me. How long? I

can't remember. I started selling them as an Unlocking Autism Rep in Oregon.

How could we have opposed this application if we never new they filed? But I

guess you don't want anyone to know. This is the mark:

The mark consists of a ribbon folded over itself and depicting the design of a

plurality of interconnected puzzle pieces.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions.

Just me.

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