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Re: Religion Threads

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I am enjoying the religion/epiphany threads. I found an excellent

web page that is devoted to this subject. Metacrock is a self

described christian apologist but his essays are interesting no matter what

one's beliefs may be. The second page (link) about science is a must. The

arguments are thought-provoking:

http://www.geocities.com/metagetics/1.htm

Jim

<< I think Dave wrote:

i have to agree with this, i had a moment of clarity where

everything made sense to me once i took god out of the

equation. god clouds reality because if you accept god, you have

to ponder the age old questions " why does god allow bad things

to happen to good people? " why do people do evil things?

there is nothing in world which cannot be explained satisfactorily

in the human experience by the sciences. once i was able to see

this, i was able to , as they say in AA, accept life on life's terms.

god beliefs attempt to frame the world to a pre-conceived image

which it doesn't fit.

> > > > For someone

> > > who

> > > > despises A.A you seem to have quite a preoccupation with it. It

> > > > would

> > > > appear to me that A.A still has a hold on you.

> > >

> > > I wouldn't speak for , but speaking for myself the above is

> > > true. I despise *A sometimes, I am preoccupied with *A sometimes,

> > > *A still has a hold on me--SOMETIMES. That is slowly changing for

> me.

> > > I'm learning to understand my preoccupation and have a little more

> > > control of my feelings toward the 12 steps.

> >

> > I'll very probably be preoccupied with the downfall of AA until AA

> is

> > relegated to a bad chapter in the history books and the AApes are

> ridiculed

> > mercilessly in the media and every day life. I've gone on record as

> saying

> > this should happen within 20 years. I hear that stupid argument

> all

> the

> > time. " for someone who claims not to like AA you sure do seem

> preoccupied

> > by it " (you dry drunk you) as though that really means anything.

> It's human

> > nature to be preoccupied with stuff you don't like. Look at the

> Moralistic

> > Minority, People who hate stern, etc..

> >

> > That argument is an AA platitude used against people who are

> combating AA

> > either online or in person. They all use it as though it were

> original and

> > significant.

> >

> > > Now, I am in fact grateful to people here who called me on it

> when

> I

> > unintentionally

> > > spoke in patterns that I learned in 12 step treatment and *A.

> That's

> > > what I see doing with you (and frankly I think he's been

> very

> > > fair).

> >

> > oops I think I went past the fair marker just a while ago. Should

> have read

> > this first. Damn.

> > Someone got me a couple of times with stuff I said which made me

> watch what

> > I said but in doing so I eradicated the negative shit from my

> internal

> > dialogue.

> >

> > AA in contrast encourages constant negative internal dialogue.

> blahhhhh.

> > They can have it.

> >

> > > If you are uncomfortable here there are other lists that

> > > may feel more welcoming to you. If you want to keep arguing with

> > > , well that's between you and him--it doesn't bother me.

> >

> > For some reason this one has become personal. I think it was the

> paranoid

> > crack but more likely it was the subliminal cracks being thrown

> around.

> > I've seen it happen time and time again where people back off on

> one

> thread

> > then use another to make their points in a thinly veiled secretive

> manner.

> > The only way I've seen to combat that bs is direct and persistent

> frontal

> > assault until the shit stops.

> >

> > > It's your thing, do what you wanna do.

> > >

> > > judith

>

>

>

>

>

>

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> one's beliefs may be. The second page (link) about science is a must. The

> arguments are thought-provoking:

>

> http://www.geocities.com/metagetics/1.htm

>

I just discovered an apparent problem with navigating this site.

Hitting " next " at the bottom of each page only works for several levels then

returns errors. It can be got around by manually inserting the next number

in the browser url:

http://www.geocities.com/Metagetics/6.htm becomes

http://www.geocities.com/Metagetics/7.htm and so on.

Jim

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