Re: Studies of A.A's ineffectiveness

[Guest guest]

check out stantons peeles site. thier is one or two which it think

were large and ran by government. one was MATCH

basically, it had three catagories, those who got sober with

treatment, thru AA and no treatment. after a year .

sont qoute these numbers, they are from memory and may be

wrong.it worked out to something like 31% were sober after 1

yera in AA, while 33% were sober wih no treament. treatment

fared best , but by not much more, something like 38 or 40%.

so susccess wise, AA is really no more succesful than no

treatment at all.

take into accout AA's 1986 survey which showed 50% leave aa

after 3 months, and up 95% after one year, and its not a pretty

picture.

> To all:

>

> I am interested in reading studies that have been done which

relate to

> the ineffectiveness of A.A or 12 step programs for that matter. I

> would appreciate any assistance. Thanks in advance.

>

> Pat

[Guest guest]

> To all:

>

> I am interested in reading studies that have been done which relate

to

> the ineffectiveness of A.A or 12 step programs for that matter. I

> would appreciate any assistance. Thanks in advance.

>

> Pat

The new book by Stanton Peele and Bufe, RESISTING 12 STEP

COERCION reviews the major studies. That would be the best place to

begin I think. There is an extensive bibiliography if you want/need

still more.

Also take a look at http://www.aahorror.net/Home.htm and

http://www.bcrecovernet.org. There is a good sections on Science

(including court decisions) and book reviews at www.unhooked.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dave and Stuart....

> > To all:

> >

> > I am interested in reading studies that have been done which

> relate to

> > the ineffectiveness of A.A or 12 step programs for that matter. I

> > would appreciate any assistance. Thanks in advance.

> >

> > Pat

[Guest guest]

http://www.peele.net if you email stanton about what results of

studies were, he would probably respond to you within a day or

two

> > > To all:

> > >

> > > I am interested in reading studies that have been done

which

> > relate to

> > > the ineffectiveness of A.A or 12 step programs for that

matter. I

> > > would appreciate any assistance. Thanks in advance.

> > >

> > > Pat

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave

You must have MATCH mixed up with something else (NLAES probably).

everyone had some form of treatment in MATCH: 12-step,

cognitive-behavioral, or Motivational Enhancement. Only the first

were encoragerd to go to AA but some of the othjers went anyway. The

results were basically the same in each - though as a result of an

unpredicted interaction, probably an artefact, it is frequently

wrongly reported as showing that 12-step is best. In fact the real

winner was Motivational Enhancement, as it did just as well with only

1/3 of the scheduled sessions. As there was no control group, we

cannot be sure that anyone was really helped. It was pretty well a

waste of $30 million of taxpayers' money.

The NLAES shows that at 20 yr followup, those who do best, on both

abstinence and moderation, are those who have never had treatment or

been to AA.

Pete

> > To all:

> >

> > I am interested in reading studies that have been done which

> relate to

> > the ineffectiveness of A.A or 12 step programs for that matter. I

> > would appreciate any assistance. Thanks in advance.

> >

> > Pat

[Guest guest]

Good luck. The only large study that Im aware of comparing AOD treatment

methods was Project MATCH that closed in 96. It pretty much concluded that

AA is no more or no less effective than other systems, methods,

models...etc.

You can get to an abstract at

http://silk.nih.gov/silk/niaaa1/releases/match.htm

Also try http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/SAMHDA/studies.html

BTW, it's generally not acceptable scientific research practice to go out to

find negative evidence on a subject. It's called bias and will lead people

not to take one seriously. Happens all the time in politics, though.

Don

Studies of A.A's ineffectiveness

> To all:

>

> I am interested in reading studies that have been done which relate to

> the ineffectiveness of A.A or 12 step programs for that matter. I

> would appreciate any assistance. Thanks in advance.

>

> Pat

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

But MATCH, with no control group and with careful selection of subjects,

could not conclude that ANY " treatment " was any better than the spontaneous

recovery rate. Yet, after spending 20 million or so, the NIAAA loudly

proclaimed, " It Works! " They are all for " treatment " because it is

political propaganda : " You are powerless; the right wing rules " The elite

could care less about drugs. Hey, who is it that DEMANDS that poor and

minority grade schoolers get juiced on Ritalin day after day? It is all

about power and propaganda, baby. As Tina would say, " What has " addiction "

got to do with it? " There is NO SUCH THING as " addiction. " " Addiction " is

a myth, whose meaning is - YOU ARE POWERLESS, and WE will run the world.

---- Original Message -----

To: <12-step-freeegroups>

Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 4:54 PM

Subject: Re: Studies of A.A's ineffectiveness

> Good luck. The only large study that Im aware of comparing AOD treatment

> methods was Project MATCH that closed in 96. It pretty much concluded

that

> AA is no more or no less effective than other systems, methods,

> models...etc.

>

> You can get to an abstract at

> http://silk.nih.gov/silk/niaaa1/releases/match.htm

>

> Also try http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/SAMHDA/studies.html

>

> BTW, it's generally not acceptable scientific research practice to go out

to

> find negative evidence on a subject. It's called bias and will lead people

> not to take one seriously. Happens all the time in politics, though.

>

> Don

>

>

>

> Studies of A.A's ineffectiveness

>

>

> > To all:

> >

> > I am interested in reading studies that have been done which relate to

> > the ineffectiveness of A.A or 12 step programs for that matter. I

> > would appreciate any assistance. Thanks in advance.

> >

> > Pat

> >

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Dude...I didnt say it was any good. Just research.

Studies of A.A's ineffectiveness

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> > > To all:

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> > > I am interested in reading studies that have been done which relate to

> > > the ineffectiveness of A.A or 12 step programs for that matter. I

> > > would appreciate any assistance. Thanks in advance.

> > >

> > > Pat

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